Cowards let 76 year old teacher die

RedwoodSap · April 2007

While feeling sorrow for the victims and their families of the Va Tech massacre, I am also angry about this.

A 76 year old teacher, a holocaust survivor, barricaded the classroom door with his body to prevent the killer from gaining access to the classroom, allowing all his students time to escape and jump out the window, until he was shot dead by the murderer. Some of these students were 20 something males, in better physical condition than the old man, and instead of helping him, they ran away, not thinking once of helping him. He was under no obligation to sacrifice his life just because he was their teacher and an employee of the University. His bravery and selflessness saved those students.

nomadian · April 2007

everyone is paniccing in that situation, noone is in their right mind. How did the teacher get shot though? By the murderer forcing the door down I guess?

Praetoriani · April 2007

First of all, how could they have helped against an armed gunman?

Second, what does them being male or above the age of 20 have to do with anything? I'd assume every student in that room was in a better physical condition than a 76 year old. Age and especially gender has nothing to do with it, unless you feel young men are somehow more expendable than the rest of society.

I think it's horrible of you to say that the people that fled were cowards. You likely haven't been in a situation of sheer terror, and likely never will be.

Zikiel · April 2007

That's human nature. Either way, the person would have been killed. In a situation like that I'm thinking that the teacher probably held that door and told them to go. I have no doubts that he probably knew he was gonna die, probably figured it was his time. It's still a damn shame that someone who beat Nazis got pegged by some punk ass depressive.

Gameloading · April 2007

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

While feeling sorrow for the victims and their families of the Va Tech massacre, I am also angry about this.
A 76 year old teacher, a holocaust survivor, barricaded the classroom door with his body to prevent the killer from gaining access to the classroom, allowing all his students time to escape and jump out the window, until he was shot dead by the murderer. Some of these students were 20 something males, in better physical condition than the old man, and instead of helping him, they ran away, not thinking once of helping him. He was under no obligation to sacrifice his life just because he was their teacher and an employee of the University. His bravery and selflessness saved those students.

Your post is silly Imo. Be serious, What would a 20 year old do against an armed man who killed over 30 people, of which many are studens int heir 20's. It doesn't matter what Physical condition you have, your not going to do against anything against an armed man.

next is the fact the teached was 76 years old. He is obviously already at the last years of your life. Wouldn't you sacrfice yourself at that age for a person who is still at the start of his life and has a whole life ahead of him? I would, and I'm sure many understood that. I wouldn't sacrfice myself for someone as old as him either. that has nothing to do with being a coward. I see it as common sense.

YoungDeezy · April 2007

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

While feeling sorrow for the victims and their families of the Va Tech massacre, I am also angry about this.
A 76 year old teacher, a holocaust survivor, barricaded the classroom door with his body to prevent the killer from gaining access to the classroom, allowing all his students time to escape and jump out the window, until he was shot dead by the murderer. Some of these students were 20 something males, in better physical condition than the old man, and instead of helping him, they ran away, not thinking once of helping him. He was under no obligation to sacrifice his life just because he was their teacher and an employee of the University. His bravery and selflessness saved those students.

i think those 20 something males dont deserve balls cause they lost there balls for not helping the poor old guy

pyrofreak · April 2007

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

While feeling sorrow for the victims and their families of the Va Tech massacre, I am also angry about this.
A 76 year old teacher, a holocaust survivor, barricaded the classroom door with his body to prevent the killer from gaining access to the classroom, allowing all his students time to escape and jump out the window, until he was shot dead by the murderer. Some of these students were 20 something males, in better physical condition than the old man, and instead of helping him, they ran away, not thinking once of helping him. He was under no obligation to sacrifice his life just because he was their teacher and an employee of the University. His bravery and selflessness saved those students.

Your post is silly Imo. Be serious, What would a 20 year old do against an armed man who killed over 30 people, of which many are studens int heir 20's. It doesn't matter what Physical condition you have, your not going to do against anything against an armed man.

next is the fact the teached was 76 years old. He is obviously already at the last years of your life. Wouldn't you sacrfice yourself at that age for a person who is still at the start of his life and has a whole life ahead of him? I would, and I'm sure many understood that. I wouldn't sacrfice myself for someone as old as him either. that has nothing to do with being a coward. I see it as common sense. Gameloading has the right idea here. This teacher felt that it would be better for a single life to be lost than many. In the words of Spock, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Lanmoragon · April 2007

How the hell would the OP know happened in that class room? Maybe the 20 something year old guys volunteered their help, but the old man, having lived out a long and proud life, screamed at them to get out. Maybe the old man told them to leave because he knew he was going to die anyways, so why make those kids stay and lose their lives also?

Think before you post.

Draenor · April 2007

I absolutely refuse to believe that this is anything but troll bait...There is just no way you're serious

Agia · April 2007

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

While feeling sorrow for the victims and their families of the Va Tech massacre, I am also angry about this.
A 76 year old teacher, a holocaust survivor, barricaded the classroom door with his body to prevent the killer from gaining access to the classroom, allowing all his students time to escape and jump out the window, until he was shot dead by the murderer. Some of these students were 20 something males, in better physical condition than the old man, and instead of helping him, they ran away, not thinking once of helping him. He was under no obligation to sacrifice his life just because he was their teacher and an employee of the University. His bravery and selflessness saved those students.

Empathy and altruism are reserved for fairy tales and romance comedies. The sooner you realize that the less sleep you'll lose. The students valued their lives over someone else's. There's no cowardice in self preservation. Call me a coward if you'd like, but I'd be the first one out that window.

Slickinfinit · April 2007

Unless you have been in the exact same situation then imo you have no merit or credibility to comment on what you might or should have done as hindsight is always 20/20. Its also my opinion that this person would have willfully sacrificed his own life to save his students but I do not know the full story as only those who experienced that horror could, so seriously think before you post some ignorant ramblings.

PunkMonk · April 2007

Yea, um, Leviv (Teacher) wanted to save his class. He risked his life and knew the consequences in doing so. He TOLD them to jump out the window to safety.

bonobotheory · April 2007

Yeah, they should have like totally karate-kicked the gunman. I liek saw in this movie where this dude totally karate-kicked the gun out of this dude's hand, and the dude was all like "ow, my hand" and then the good guys won like they always do. So maybe instead of killing a 76-year old man, this gunman could have killed a few young people with their whole lives ahead of them. That would totally rule.

Please. The sacrifice of one person is all it took to let everybody else live. The old man had the least to lose. More people staying behind would have led to more people dying.

reavo · April 2007

Originally posted by Agia

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

While feeling sorrow for the victims and their families of the Va Tech massacre, I am also angry about this.
A 76 year old teacher, a holocaust survivor, barricaded the classroom door with his body to prevent the killer from gaining access to the classroom, allowing all his students time to escape and jump out the window, until he was shot dead by the murderer. Some of these students were 20 something males, in better physical condition than the old man, and instead of helping him, they ran away, not thinking once of helping him. He was under no obligation to sacrifice his life just because he was their teacher and an employee of the University. His bravery and selflessness saved those students.

Empathy and altruism are reserved for fairy tales and romance comedies. The sooner you realize that the less sleep you'll lose. The students valued their lives over someone else's. There's no cowardice in self preservation. Call me a coward if you'd like, but I'd be the first one out that window. Actually, there are some of us who are very empathetic and altruistic. But the funny thing is you never know until you're in a panic situation who you really are.

There is something deep rooted in the mind that makes a person either run or look around and try to help others survive. And you can't tell until you're in a situation that brings it out. I was surprised in Iraq to see people who called themselves "brave" and who I believed at first turn out to be the first to run when the going got tough. And then I saw some guys who at first I thought weren't going to stand and fight pull wounded soldiers to safety knowing their life was in absolute danger.

Don't over generalize and say all of mankind has no empathy or altruism. I found out otherwise through experience. I've seen people die trying to save others and they knew exactly what they were doing.

RedwoodSap · April 2007

I find it insulting for people to suggest that an older person has less to lose than a younger person. You dishonor this teacher when you spew that garbage. He was an educated man, a well respected engineer, a teacher and lecturer, in good health,someone who could have easily lived another 20 years and probably achieved more and accomplished more good than most of those kids who probably won't reach his status or be as productive to society as he was.

If one or two others had helped him prevent the gunman from gaining entry to that classroom, they all could have survived. That is based on fact, from another classroom where two 20 something kids did work together and barricade the door with furniture while standing at the side of the door so when he shot thru the door, the bullets missed them.

Praetoriani · April 2007

That still doesn't explain why you feel 20-something males should have helped him out. You yourself said he as a lecturer has no obligation to help the students. Why do you feel '20 something males' do have that obligation?

Again, you weren't there. Don't judge these people.

nomadian · April 2007

I agree with your first paragraph. I was a bit surprised at some of the responses about how it was a galliant sacrifice and all that. But again, I would say it was a life or death situation people were paniccing, survival was first call and we don't know what the situation was. Could they have stopped the gunman getting in? Or could the gunman have shot through the door? Were there windows? Was the door where they were successful in stopping the gunman any different? Some people may have felt it may have been more suicidal going to the door. So yeah I see where you're coming from but think you're being a bit harsh in your scrutiny of those students.

Gameloading · April 2007

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

I find it insulting for people to suggest that an older person has less to lose than a younger person. You dishonor this teacher when you spew that garbage. He was an educated man, a well respected engineer, a teacher and lecturer, in good health,someone who could have easily lived another 20 years and probably achieved more and accomplished more good than most of those kids who probably won't reach his status or be as productive to society as he was.
If one or two others had helped him prevent the gunman from gaining entry to that classroom, they all could have survived. That is based on fact, from another classroom where two 20 something kids did work together and barricade the door with furniture while standing at the side of the door so when he shot thru the door, the bullets missed them.

That is your problem, Nobody is dishonoring this teacher, this is simply staying realistic. The man already experienced his life and was clearly at the last years of his life. Is not "Easily" to have lived another 20 years at his age, believe me. And those kids had probably around 60 years or more to live. they had yet to experience marriage, having a real job, and all the other good things life have to offer us. Its a no brainer.

Its also not a fact that it would have gone that way. its an assumption. just because it happened at one place doesn't mean it would have happened at another place

Zorvan · April 2007

Let me say this. The teacher is a hero. Period. That is the ultimate knowledge that should be gleaned from this.

Now, as far as the students assisting him, I'll say this. Do I believe that if all the students had worked in a coordinated effort, then yes, they could have feasibly taken the gunman down with sheer numbers. There would have still been casualties, including more than likely the teacher.

However, I remember being in my late teens, early 20's (man, I miss those years), and although I can say with almost certainty now (or perhaps just general hope for the strength of my character) that I would have tried something to help that teacher, I am now a man in my late 30's who has one thing those kids didn't, and that is life experience. At 20 something, I can tell you now, I would have done the same thing those kids did, follow my teachers orders and help the other kids to escape.

They didn't have the experience to coordinate such an effort, especially at literally a moments notice. So, I do not blame them for doing the best option available to them: do as the teacher said, so at least his death was not in vain.

And as I said, I sincerley hope that I, or any of us here, would be able to react to a similar situation in a way that would change the scenario to a happy ending. However, that's all it is: hope. The hope that we could all be heroes when the time came. Like that teacher.

Marku · April 2007

agreed, he's a hero for sure. its not like a 76 year old would of made it out of the window right? he made the right choice, its a good way to go IMO , we all want to be remembered when we're gone. if i remember right he had cancer too?

Wolfjunkie · April 2007

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

I find it insulting for people to suggest that an older person has less to lose than a younger person. You dishonor this teacher when you spew that garbage. He was an educated man, a well respected engineer, a teacher and lecturer, in good health,someone who could have easily lived another 20 years and probably achieved more and accomplished more good than most of those kids who probably won't reach his status or be as productive to society as he was.
If one or two others had helped him prevent the gunman from gaining entry to that classroom, they all could have survived. That is based on fact, from another classroom where two 20 something kids did work together and barricade the door with furniture while standing at the side of the door so when he shot thru the door, the bullets missed them.

Have you ever been in the midle of an firefight? Ever had someone threatend you with a knife? You don't act quite normal in these situations. Your instinct and, if you've recived any, training takes over.

These kids probaly haven't learned how to handle a gunman. They defently haven't learned how to handle someone pointing a gun at them. Have you? Have you had your chance to stare into the barrel of a psychopats gun? It's quite easy to put on 20/20 hindsight, isn't it?

You know what? You're an judgemental *******.

You think it was a game, for the young adults? You think it was a pleasant experience?

I'd suggest you to pick up a gun, and head out to the world. Protect the people that have contributed more to the society, than you might ever do. You are an worthless human being compared to Albert Einstein, and therefor you should act as an shield for other more "valueable" human beings. Right? Or.. Are you an coward? Can you not see that the life of another person contributes alot more to the human race, than you'd ever do? Heck, why do you still live? Why haven't you sacrificed yourself yet?

Bodyguards might have to sacrifice their life to protect the one who recruited them. Soldiers might have to sacrifice their life for whatever cause they belive in. But are you seriously telling me, that it is the duty of all young people to sacrifice their lifes for the elders? That if you do not do that, you're nothing but a lousy coward?

CastleGoob · April 2007

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

While feeling sorrow for the victims and their families of the Va Tech massacre, I am also angry about this.
A 76 year old teacher, a holocaust survivor, barricaded the classroom door with his body to prevent the killer from gaining access to the classroom, allowing all his students time to escape and jump out the window, until he was shot dead by the murderer. Some of these students were 20 something males, in better physical condition than the old man, and instead of helping him, they ran away, not thinking once of helping him. He was under no obligation to sacrifice his life just because he was their teacher and an employee of the University. His bravery and selflessness saved those students.

Well I feel sorry for the poor little sods. Going about there school day texting there freinds basically doing what kids.. welll young adults do at that time of life. It must of been horrific for them in a place which you would presume would be safe.

I'm guessing the teacher made no complex calculation about his worth versus there worth age or other wise. He probably saw the horror in there faces and acted.

It was a brave act by a teacher to protect his students and the young students with no training or experience to deal with such a horrific attack followed what the teacher told em to do.

Rikimaru_X · April 2007

That dosen't make them cowards. What could 20 somthing males do to an armed gunman that has two guns. Actually if they are in a hallway they possibly couldn't do anything what so ever. That's like shooting fish in a barrel. I would call the teacher a hero for saving the young students and maybe he didn't want their help. I know I would help the old man if they let me legaly carry a sword. Ok without the jokes, I dout those kids could do anything and this old man gave his life to have them have a better future. I hope those students understand that.

Enigma · April 2007

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

While feeling sorrow for the victims and their families of the Va Tech massacre, I am also angry about this.
A 76 year old teacher, a holocaust survivor, barricaded the classroom door with his body to prevent the killer from gaining access to the classroom, allowing all his students time to escape and jump out the window, until he was shot dead by the murderer. Some of these students were 20 something males, in better physical condition than the old man, and instead of helping him, they ran away, not thinking once of helping him. He was under no obligation to sacrifice his life just because he was their teacher and an employee of the University. His bravery and selflessness saved those students.

you are the cruelest person I have ever met on these forums....well third most cruelest.

I want to see your response when someone is running to you and about to shove a 40 calibur handgun down your throat. What would you do? I bet more than anything in the world you would have been one of those students jumping out of that second story window.

Don't try to be "I would have been the hero" in a situation you have never been in. You have absolutely no idea what you would have done.

Those students were victims and not cowards. You sicken me.

Enigma · April 2007

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

I find it insulting for people to suggest that an older person has less to lose than a younger person.

I find it insulting that you we would spewed this garbage here. MODs please lock this. Its doing nothing but inciting people to troll at this person

logangregor · April 2007

For all you know the 76 yr old teacher could of died of natural causes the very next day.

Yes I beleive the whole thing is sad, but whats worse, someone dying in there prime (20 yr old males) or someone dying after a long and fruitful life (76 yr old man).

The older man helped save lives. A good way to go imo.

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Cowards let 76 year old teacher die

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