When they removed the Risk factors is when the game started to faulter..Jedi pre9 had many risk but lots of power which kept most hidden or rarely seen..Of course being all in comp armor im sure there were many jedi you just didnt see em, they looked just like everyone else(a great part of what i liked) Jedi without and risk made many upset personally i couldve cared less..I thought Jedi belong in Star Wars but i guess i was wrong..Its how Jedi was handled that pissed me off, weak and useless...Too bad it doesnt matter now the game is free jedi and they are weak and have no animations lol..At least i got cool animations and the honor of being one for many years before i was nerfed to uselessness...Blame SOE for listening to all the whiners of the years its the reason we now have the crappy NGE...Way to go whiners!!! you won!!
Yeah. Imagine that. A Star Wars game with Jedi. Can't have that!
Damn skippy! Lets go to George Lucas's house and tell him we don't need no stinkin' Jedi! Bah.. it's already too late.. Actually I thought it would have been better to have the game set in the KOTOR time period and make ALL character classes different types of Jedi. Let everyone be able to swing a nerf bat if they want but depending on your class your primary skill could be in ranged combat or melee or healing or whatever.
Makes more sense to have ranged classes switch to lightsaber melee at short range than shoot at their feet with a lava cannon :P
It always bugged me how they went about adding jedi too They lied about it from the start, saying that jedi were already in the game, and adding cheesy tantalizing commands like /saberthrow2 and such. Complete bullshit. They always acted as if they had this brilliant jedi system that we would all be amazed at and how it would be very well done, and then they threw the hologrind at us... Well, I would have preferred the hologrind to what they wasted their time with after. After Jedi were introduced every single update up to CU was about jedi jedi jedi... There were barely any updates that didnt concern jedi... It was pretty lame Jedi were so overpowered compared to the rest of the classes... I dunno who had the brilliant idea to make a mmorpg where one profession was better than all the others.
IMO it would have been much better if instead of making all jedi uber, all force sensitive characters were better than non force sensitive, but it wouldnt matter if you were a force sensitive riflemen, swordsmen, or jedi, they would all be balanced.
It always bugged me how they went about adding jedi too They lied about it from the start, saying that jedi were already in the game, and adding cheesy tantalizing commands like /saberthrow2 and such. Complete bullshit. They always acted as if they had this brilliant jedi system that we would all be amazed at and how it would be very well done, and then they threw the hologrind at us... Well, I would have preferred the hologrind to what they wasted their time with after. After Jedi were introduced every single update up to CU was about jedi jedi jedi... There were barely any updates that didnt concern jedi... It was pretty lame Jedi were so overpowered compared to the rest of the classes... I dunno who had the brilliant idea to make a mmorpg where one profession was better than all the others.
IMO it would have been much better if instead of making all jedi uber, all force sensitive characters were better than non force sensitive, but it wouldnt matter if you were a force sensitive riflemen, swordsmen, or jedi, they would all be balanced.
See i have to wonder if you ever were a precu Jedi...Cause comandoes were nerfed waaaaay before jedi were even seen..Also makes me wonder when you say stronger than other classes..See i was Precu Jedi i didnt see the power you so claim..I saw a balanced class with a purple balance bar.We were strong vs Range thats a fact,melee it was a different story most outlasted a jedi force bar..But again another claim by someone who didnt play as one for very long or at all..Jedi took along time to learn to survive and not die constantly(ask any Precu Jedi)
In groups Jedi excelled ill admit but we had survivability to a point..We could run, throw up force armor or hope our force bar lasted..The force drain for most Jedi was outlandish and it was based on the quality of the pearls.Not every jedi had a perfect saber if you recall SOE kept messing with pearl drops..A jedi was lucky to get a good tune.It took me months to even get enough pearls to keep my force drain moderate..
Jedi was balanced and working it was nerfed unerfed so many times because all the crybabies..I learned to play my toons be it melee range ect..I took it in stride when i got beat i learned what not to do..I didnt jump on the forums and cry about jedi, cm's or any other quote overpowered profession..THEY ALL HAD PROS AND CONS..SOE couldnt leave the Risk vs reward system in based on all the cries as they couldnt leave things alone.
One things no game dev can ever balance is the person behind the keyboard..No matter how vanilla they make any game you can never adjust the skill of the individual player..I saw many so called bad professions whipe the pvp field with those so called over powered ones..The game was balanced just some never learned to play their professions or cared to get better..Every profession could be beaten if you knew what to do and what to use..Sad all i ever see is crying over things that make no sense based on things they know nothing about..I just played the game win lose over powered underpowered i had a blast...
And why would you want to play a game when everybody is equal??God how boring and stupid, SWG was never unbalanced at all..I for one want to be rewarded, and i want the risk that goes along with that reward..Wow no one wants to be challenged anymore in games..Hence why we have the NGE, the loss of being better than anyone is why we play games..To try to be better than someone else..SWG gave you the options to be better than anyone else no matter what profession you chose..You just wouldnt be better than everyone..Just dont understand this whole waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah i need to be equal and like everyone else crap..
Jedi were fine whent hey were hard to obtain, also when crystals were hard to get. You could always just tkm , or snip/medic and be = if not > then jedi in many situations. Commands were also tosn of fun , so were well so many skill lines could put up pleaty to offer to play instead of jedi... i for one did get jedi but just becuase my rl friend wanted to so we did it together. With or w/o jedi it was fine. later stages of CU jedi was a bit to easy to get and for a while crystals poored out and were so easy to get and that was a problem.
PS Dvol comandos did get nerffed but they got buffed also. all pre-CU.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Jedi were fine whent hey were hard to obtain, also when crystals were hard to get. You could always just tkm , or snip/medic and be = if not > then jedi in many situations. Commands were also tosn of fun , so were well so many skill lines could put up pleaty to offer to play instead of jedi... i for one did get jedi but just becuase my rl friend wanted to so we did it together. With or w/o jedi it was fine. later stages of CU jedi was a bit to easy to get and for a while crystals poored out and were so easy to get and that was a problem.
PS Dvol comandos did get nerffed but they got buffed also. all pre-CU.
How did they get buffed? I recall TKM and comando was my first masteries unarmored and unbuffed..I was comando up until the huge balance pass..This was before we had good buffs and armour,,Our dot was nerfed into uselessness, our accuracy had allways stunk(which of course balanced comando) See just like many professions all these nerfs took place early in the game..Then never readjusted..Remeber pistol bleeds that stacked? Remeber when pistoleer was made useless because they no longer had them? I do i did every combat profession prenerf post nerf..I cant recall comando ever being powerfull till the NGE..But the NGE was supose to make everyone balanced lol!!!!!! Refresh my memory cause its been allmost 3 years since i was comando lol.Rifleman doc up till the NGE crap..so when did they get fixed? the CU dont count it was crap too...
God the game was a POS after Jedi got put in and it ruined the whole thing and everything from then on was about Jedi. I for one arn't even excited about Pre cu servers ever coming back or SWGEMU even though thats just worse than the NGE atm and probally will be for years to come. So why can't we have Pre Jedi servers and this includes JTLS unless they can take out the quick travel that ruined the social aspect of waiting at StarPorts.
I say around about the patch that gave us cities and vehicles even though they made mounts useless. However this could easily be fixed.
Because the only moaners are what was left after the first mass exodus shortly after jedi came out.The ones who grinded jedi and now so unhappy .
Thats why u keep hearing about this era.Sadly,the real truth was the game was best at pre jedi era despite all the server issues/bugs
However, if SOE was intent on having Jedi in the game then I always thought (albeit it's a little controversial) that they should have remained permanently neutral. This would have kept them out of the GCW therefore maintaining a relatively even playing field for everyone else. Secondly introduce smugglers into the Bounty Hunter missions, that way BH's had a choice of hunting smugglers which were more on par with the average BH, or hunting Jedi which would have been more challenging.
I'm sure that in this method we would have seen much less Jedi.
There was never any pre-holocron jedi. Player jedi skills and gear wasnt even ingame until after the holocrons started dropping. Its one of the big arguments in SWG. When the game was first released Koster, the one everyone reveres now, said that the jedi system was ingame and ready to go. Then four months later we had the stealth jedi patch where the jedi system was added in.
There was never any pre-holocron jedi. Player jedi skills and gear wasnt even ingame until after the holocrons started dropping. Its one of the big arguments in SWG. When the game was first released Koster, the one everyone reveres now, said that the jedi system was ingame and ready to go. Then four months later we had the stealth jedi patch where the jedi system was added in.
Kai
Your splitting hairs. Yes there were holocrons before Jedi but they didnt do anything. The first jedi unlocked before anyone was even able to look at a holocron to see what it did after the jedi system was turned on.
The only real argument Ive heard was whether the holocrons were turned on at the same time as jedi or a short while later since there was a delay before anyone noticed them and the information spread no ones really sure how long it was after jedi started appearing that they were turned on.
I seem to remember that someone at SOE let slip that Jedi was unlocked by mastering certain professions then it was only a while later after the whining got really loud that they made holocrons give tips on what to master next.
There was never any pre-holocron jedi. Player jedi skills and gear wasnt even ingame until after the holocrons started dropping. Its one of the big arguments in SWG. When the game was first released Koster, the one everyone reveres now, said that the jedi system was ingame and ready to go. Then four months later we had the stealth jedi patch where the jedi system was added in.
Kai
Your splitting hairs. Yes there were holocrons before Jedi but they didnt do anything. The first jedi unlocked before anyone was even able to look at a holocron to see what it did after the jedi system was turned on.
The only real argument Ive heard was whether the holocrons were turned on at the same time as jedi or a short while later since there was a delay before anyone noticed them and the information spread no ones really sure how long it was after jedi started appearing that they were turned on.
I seem to remember that someone at SOE let slip that Jedi was unlocked by mastering certain professions then it was only a while later after the whining got really loud that they made holocrons give tips on what to master next.
But then again that was years ago. The first force sensitive was unlocked on November 7th, 2003. The first holocrons were dropping before August 15th, 2003. You do the math.
The jedi holocron grind simply destroyed the game IMO. As a guild, we were having a blast going to different parts of the universe and fighting stuff, whether that be kryat dragons, nightsisters, rankors, etc. But once the hologrind started, the game pretty much ended. Nobody grouped anymore, cause they were all off doing their own thing.
I never really had a problem with jedi in general, but given the discussion of the "alpha class" issue, I think that the arguments against an alpha class are sound.
So yeah, I think I understand what the OP is talking about.
Im not arguing with that I know holocrons were dropping long before jedi was switched on the thing is they DIDNT DO ANYTHING until afterwards.
Holocrons were doing the whole "what profession should I master" long before the first jedi popped.
The earliest forum post I could find about holocrons telling professions to master was August 15th. 2003.
Back in Sept. and Oct. I was making money by finding holocrons and selling them to people. The first one I ever used was on September 19th and it told me to master Architect. I know this because I checked my old guild forums as well and read my post.
Maybe it was the server i was one but i can still count on one had how many Jedi i saw running around Shadowfire. I think the this was that b/c Jedi was the only unlock class people have a kind of distaste for them. SOE should have just had an unlock for all the classes.
There were in fact pre-holocron jedi, it doesn't really matter what you say because i distinctly remember 3 jedi on the server gorath; inferno Blaack Widow, and one another i forget the name. This was well before holocrons where you would find 1 jedi on a server at a time, those were the good old days, no one had the patience to unlock jedi, and few cared, so in truth jedi fanatics were few and far between, and this is speaking from several servers not just gorath. I can honestly admit to outdoing Blaack Widow, who was a dark jedi overlord, after holocron-grinding jedi and getting master. She later quit the game after CU. Inferno stayed and was council leader a couple of times later quitting after NGE. SWG needs jedi, for a good many reasons, but mostly because its STAR WARS. Keep the 34 profession grind,and you'll find a very small pop of jedi, also not perma death,thats just silly, than everyone should have prema death, maybe just revoke his/her jediness for a week or month<-----fairly good idea, hopefully can be used in SWGEmu.
The first Jedi was pre-holocron. Monika T'Sarn. Intrepid galaxy.
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It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
There were in fact pre-holocron jedi, it doesn't really matter what you say because i distinctly remember 3 jedi on the server gorath; inferno Blaack Widow, and one another i forget the name. This was well before holocrons where you would find 1 jedi on a server at a time, those were the good old days, no one had the patience to unlock jedi, and few cared, so in truth jedi fanatics were few and far between, and this is speaking from several servers not just gorath. I can honestly admit to outdoing Blaack Widow, who was a dark jedi overlord, after holocron-grinding jedi and getting master. She later quit the game after CU. Inferno stayed and was council leader a couple of times later quitting after NGE. SWG needs jedi, for a good many reasons, but mostly because its STAR WARS. Keep the 34 profession grind,and you'll find a very small pop of jedi, also not perma death,thats just silly, than everyone should have prema death, maybe just revoke his/her jediness for a week or month<-----fairly good idea, hopefully can be used in SWGEmu. Cheers
The first force sensitive unlocked on November 7th, 2003. SOE made a huge deal of it on the forums and the site news. Because they were watching it closely. Before that unlock there were people claimed to have unlocked but were always found to be frauds because the developers were watching and waiting.
Still trying to find that old forum post dated August 15th, 2003. But I did find this one from the VN Boards dated October 20th. 2003.
"and working on Rifleman (thx to a sith holocron)" Hmmm but you said jedi were running around BEFORE holocrons. Yet this clearly shows that holocrons were telling people what to master BEFORE the first Force Sensitive unlocked. Hmmmm
If thats enough for you then I have this for you. The first person tells what she did to unlock.
Wow she says her first holocron told her to master ranger, second doctor, and third weaponsmith. Hmmm but how could they be doing that if holocrons werent telling people what to master before the first FS unlock. That is odd isnt it?
But as you said it doesnt really matter what I say right? Because I got facts and proof. Where's yours? Oh yah you havent presented any.
Hi all, First let me say that I agree that how SOE implemented the JEDI class was wrong. But, it wasn't the JEDI class that destroyed the game; it was the game mechanics that surrounded their implementation into the system. So, let make a distinction between the JEDI class and game mechanics. The fact is the JEDI and the Star Wars universe goes together. Also, the fact that a lot of people went for JEDI show there was more than enough interest in that class, to have in play. However, the SOE DEV teams lack any imagination and skill for implementing JEDI into the game. The profession grind [by way of holocron] was stupid. As it has been mentioned the profession grind took players away from each other in terms of play, for the most part. The force sensitive village although possible in concept wasn't the best way either. The bottom line is that SOE didn’t know how to integrate the GCW, General SW content, and JEDI into more of a overall cohesive system that was needed to make the game even more fun and successful; SWG really had a lot of potential to go far. The NGE was definitely NOT the way to go. Here is one system I kind of liked. Requirement to even start the JEDI quest
AN active account of at least 90 – 120 days [this would help limit number of Jedi in the game; especially for power gamers] At least 2 profession mastered A percentage of overall quest completed.
After all that; then they would receive their holocrons at random intervals through a wide variety of general game play [in the form of loot drops]. The holocron could be puzzle pieces or lead [ in the form of quest ] to other puzzle pieces [or tech]. The piece would be a used to make a map for a force sensitive to find a hidden training site. The holocrons could also be tech, art, and so forth. As a result it would still take time for a new Jedi padawan [ with a auto set of basic JEDI skills and powers ] to come into play. Basically, the way I see it this would have limit the number of Jedi in the game while still keeping player engage in general game play [ i.e.… quest, missions, the GCW]. Anyhow, that's my thinking. IMO, Tauceti P.S. As far as whether Jedi should be in this time period; I think they should be and I can come up with reasons as to why they could be.
First of all it was the JEDI Elite noobs that thought they were better than everyone else that got them a bad name. (And No I'm not jealous they had a Glow bat and I didn't, people always accuse you of that when you make that statement) Second the only reason I know a lot of my friends went jedi is because they couldn't complete on a battlefield anymore once the glow bats showed up. Near the end I finally went jedi because I wanted a second toon. Opened the slot up and kept him a master weaponsmith, master Artisan, master Merchant.
Third there are a lot of plot lines in Starwars Episode IV though VI that didn't involve jedi at all, and were just as entertaining and eh hem "Starwarzy" True Jedi is a part of Star Wars but by no means does the Starwars World revolve around them post episode III the galaxy seems to have gotten along nicely without them. True the Story is about the rise of the Jedi renewed but there were <Carl Sagon> Billions upon Billions of creatures going on about there mundane lives with out them even seeing or even hearing about a JEDI.
As far as coming up with why jedi would be in this time period yea that's a given. Some escaped in episode III, however once they have been careless the entire Empire and Vader himself would have hunted them down. So someone showing off in theed with the glow bat out is well hmm Stupid and so un CANNON when the ST's didn't come enmass out to kill it or even Vader himself hunting the character down.
Peace
Hi, just got some counter points to offer.
As for your 1st point; there were elitist in many profession not just JEDI. But, I don't think those profession should have been thrown out because of those idiots.
Your 2nd point; again this isn't because there were JEDI..this had to do more with game and combat mechanics. Again there were other profession that many people strived for in order to gain combat supremacy [ie... combat medic, pistoleer].
Your 3rd point; The movies and many of the EU stuff tend to have elements of JEDI to one degree or another. However, I wasn't trying to suggest that SWG should have been a JEDI centric game. In fact, one of the greatest things about SWG pre-cu was that you could live your own virtual life in a Star Wars universe. TO be honest SWG: A Galaxy Divided should have been more about the GCW and allowing players to live a star wars virtual life. My point here was simply to state that those player [and there were many] who wanted to try for JEDI should be allowed, although it should have been difficult to get while being done in a smart way.
Your final point; is fairly valid. There should have been more risk for JEDI [although be equitable while maintain a level of fun] as well as risk for Bounty Hunters.
Anyhow those are my thoughts. It was the system and the mechanics not the presence of JEDI that hurt the game. Although it was still a great game. I haven't been able to find anything comparable since SWG: Pre-CU.
Hi, just got some counter points to offer. As for your 1st point; there were elitist in many profession not just JEDI. But, I don't think those profession should have been thrown out because of those idiots. I agree that there were elitests in all the professions. That happens in any game actually. A guildmate of mine, a BH, was the biggest a-hole you could ever meet. But elitism was far more prevelant in jedi then any other profession. Oddly enough it was usually the ones who macroed or bought their jedi that were elitists. I mean you would expect the ones that earned their status would be elitists but they werent. Maybe because they were at the computer being social while they grinded so they got to know everyone else. Compared to a macroer who would just turn his bot on then walk away.
Your 2nd point; again this isn't because there were JEDI..this had to do more with game and combat mechanics. Again there were other profession that many people strived for in order to gain combat supremacy [ie... combat medic, pistoleer]. Before jedi entered the GCW, battles lasted days. The largest one I was ever in started on a friday afternoon and ended on a sunday afternoon. It wasnt the same people fighting 48 hours. But people came and went and the battle raged even through two server resets. There were other huge battles as well. They have restuss now. An ongoing battle that is usually dead depending on the server. Before jedi entered the GCW the area between Anchorhead and Bestine was an ongoing battle. If you wanted PVP just wander around there overt and you got more PVP then you could handle.
After jedi entered the GCW fully, battles without jedi in them usually lasted until the first jedi appeared on the field. If there were jedi at the beginning they would last maybe an hour if you were lucky. The area between AH and Bestine was empty of overts. No one wanted to fight much anymore once a jedi or two showed up. I remember there were actually Reb and Imp groups who would work together and sneak off to areas out in the boonies to fight without jedi in them. That is really sad when groups have to hide to fight because they didnt want jedi to show up and ruin it for them.
Your 3rd point; The movies and many of the EU stuff tend to have elements of JEDI to one degree or another. However, I wasn't trying to suggest that SWG should have been a JEDI centric game. In fact, one of the greatest things about SWG pre-cu was that you could live your own virtual life in a Star Wars universe. TO be honest SWG: A Galaxy Divided should have been more about the GCW and allowing players to live a star wars virtual life. My point here was simply to state that those player [and there were many] who wanted to try for JEDI should be allowed, although it should have been difficult to get while being done in a smart way. I agree. But I would also have added alternatives to jedi that if followed would erase any chance for jedihood.
Your final point; is fairly valid. There should have been more risk for JEDI [although be equitable while maintain a level of fun] as well as risk for Bounty Hunters. There was no way they could ever balance that. Because you cant ever balance an alpha class and make it agreeable to both sides. One side will think its too harsh while the other will think its to easy. And that is why jedi shouldnt have been added. At least not as an alpha class. If the errata has shown anything its that jedi were not all powerful. One master was killed a master BH in ep II. And several were gunned down by common soldiers in ep III. Give them a little power sure. But dont make them so powerful they can walk through a group of 20 master ranked combatants without taking any damage and killing them all.
Anyhow those are my thoughts. It was the system and the mechanics not the presence of JEDI that hurt the game. Although it was still a great game. I haven't been able to find anything comparable since SWG: Pre-CU. It was the way they were setup. If SOE had stuck to the original plan I seriously doubt they would have lost so many subs. Once holos started dropping people started leaving. That and the whole marketing plan switched gears to jedi promotion. That made the game a laughing stock to the people the game should have been trying to target. The SW fans. Remember the first JTL promo videos. There were more jedi shots then ships in some of them. Even the screenshots of the day turned into a whose who among the player jedi. Every other SS was of a jedi.
Comments
Makes more sense to have ranged classes switch to lightsaber melee at short range than shoot at their feet with a lava cannon :P
IMO it would have been much better if instead of making all jedi uber, all force sensitive characters were better than non force sensitive, but it wouldnt matter if you were a force sensitive riflemen, swordsmen, or jedi, they would all be balanced.
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See i have to wonder if you ever were a precu Jedi...Cause comandoes were nerfed waaaaay before jedi were even seen..Also makes me wonder when you say stronger than other classes..See i was Precu Jedi i didnt see the power you so claim..I saw a balanced class with a purple balance bar.We were strong vs Range thats a fact,melee it was a different story most outlasted a jedi force bar..But again another claim by someone who didnt play as one for very long or at all..Jedi took along time to learn to survive and not die constantly(ask any Precu Jedi)
In groups Jedi excelled ill admit but we had survivability to a point..We could run, throw up force armor or hope our force bar lasted..The force drain for most Jedi was outlandish and it was based on the quality of the pearls.Not every jedi had a perfect saber if you recall SOE kept messing with pearl drops..A jedi was lucky to get a good tune.It took me months to even get enough pearls to keep my force drain moderate..
Jedi was balanced and working it was nerfed unerfed so many times because all the crybabies..I learned to play my toons be it melee range ect..I took it in stride when i got beat i learned what not to do..I didnt jump on the forums and cry about jedi, cm's or any other quote overpowered profession..THEY ALL HAD PROS AND CONS..SOE couldnt leave the Risk vs reward system in based on all the cries as they couldnt leave things alone.
One things no game dev can ever balance is the person behind the keyboard..No matter how vanilla they make any game you can never adjust the skill of the individual player..I saw many so called bad professions whipe the pvp field with those so called over powered ones..The game was balanced just some never learned to play their professions or cared to get better..Every profession could be beaten if you knew what to do and what to use..Sad all i ever see is crying over things that make no sense based on things they know nothing about..I just played the game win lose over powered underpowered i had a blast...
And why would you want to play a game when everybody is equal??God how boring and stupid, SWG was never unbalanced at all..I for one want to be rewarded, and i want the risk that goes along with that reward..Wow no one wants to be challenged anymore in games..Hence why we have the NGE, the loss of being better than anyone is why we play games..To try to be better than someone else..SWG gave you the options to be better than anyone else no matter what profession you chose..You just wouldnt be better than everyone..Just dont understand this whole waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah i need to be equal and like everyone else crap..
Jedi were fine whent hey were hard to obtain, also when crystals were hard to get. You could always just tkm , or snip/medic and be = if not > then jedi in many situations. Commands were also tosn of fun , so were well so many skill lines could put up pleaty to offer to play instead of jedi... i for one did get jedi but just becuase my rl friend wanted to so we did it together. With or w/o jedi it was fine. later stages of CU jedi was a bit to easy to get and for a while crystals poored out and were so easy to get and that was a problem.
PS Dvol comandos did get nerffed but they got buffed also. all pre-CU.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
How did they get buffed? I recall TKM and comando was my first masteries unarmored and unbuffed..I was comando up until the huge balance pass..This was before we had good buffs and armour,,Our dot was nerfed into uselessness, our accuracy had allways stunk(which of course balanced comando) See just like many professions all these nerfs took place early in the game..Then never readjusted..Remeber pistol bleeds that stacked? Remeber when pistoleer was made useless because they no longer had them? I do i did every combat profession prenerf post nerf..I cant recall comando ever being powerfull till the NGE..But the NGE was supose to make everyone balanced lol!!!!!! Refresh my memory cause its been allmost 3 years since i was comando lol.Rifleman doc up till the NGE crap..so when did they get fixed? the CU dont count it was crap too...
Because the only moaners are what was left after the first mass exodus shortly after jedi came out.The ones who grinded jedi and now so unhappy .
Thats why u keep hearing about this era.Sadly,the real truth was the game was best at pre jedi era despite all the server issues/bugs
I agree whole-heartedly with the OP.
However, if SOE was intent on having Jedi in the game then I always thought (albeit it's a little controversial) that they should have remained permanently neutral. This would have kept them out of the GCW therefore maintaining a relatively even playing field for everyone else. Secondly introduce smugglers into the Bounty Hunter missions, that way BH's had a choice of hunting smugglers which were more on par with the average BH, or hunting Jedi which would have been more challenging.
I'm sure that in this method we would have seen much less Jedi.
Kai
The only real argument Ive heard was whether the holocrons were turned on at the same time as jedi or a short while later since there was a delay before anyone noticed them and the information spread no ones really sure how long it was after jedi started appearing that they were turned on.
I seem to remember that someone at SOE let slip that Jedi was unlocked by mastering certain professions then it was only a while later after the whining got really loud that they made holocrons give tips on what to master next.
But then again that was years ago.
The only real argument Ive heard was whether the holocrons were turned on at the same time as jedi or a short while later since there was a delay before anyone noticed them and the information spread no ones really sure how long it was after jedi started appearing that they were turned on.
I seem to remember that someone at SOE let slip that Jedi was unlocked by mastering certain professions then it was only a while later after the whining got really loud that they made holocrons give tips on what to master next.
But then again that was years ago. The first force sensitive was unlocked on November 7th, 2003. The first holocrons were dropping before August 15th, 2003. You do the math.
Kai
The jedi holocron grind simply destroyed the game IMO. As a guild, we were having a blast going to different parts of the universe and fighting stuff, whether that be kryat dragons, nightsisters, rankors, etc. But once the hologrind started, the game pretty much ended. Nobody grouped anymore, cause they were all off doing their own thing.
I never really had a problem with jedi in general, but given the discussion of the "alpha class" issue, I think that the arguments against an alpha class are sound.
So yeah, I think I understand what the OP is talking about.
The earliest forum post I could find about holocrons telling professions to master was August 15th. 2003.
Back in Sept. and Oct. I was making money by finding holocrons and selling them to people. The first one I ever used was on September 19th and it told me to master Architect. I know this because I checked my old guild forums as well and read my post.
Kai
There were in fact pre-holocron jedi, it doesn't really matter what you say because i distinctly remember 3 jedi on the server gorath; inferno Blaack Widow, and one another i forget the name. This was well before holocrons where you would find 1 jedi on a server at a time, those were the good old days, no one had the patience to unlock jedi, and few cared, so in truth jedi fanatics were few and far between, and this is speaking from several servers not just gorath. I can honestly admit to outdoing Blaack Widow, who was a dark jedi overlord, after holocron-grinding jedi and getting master. She later quit the game after CU. Inferno stayed and was council leader a couple of times later quitting after NGE. SWG needs jedi, for a good many reasons, but mostly because its STAR WARS. Keep the 34 profession grind,and you'll find a very small pop of jedi, also not perma death,thats just silly, than everyone should have prema death, maybe just revoke his/her jediness for a week or month<-----fairly good idea, hopefully can be used in SWGEmu.
Cheers
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Still trying to find that old forum post dated August 15th, 2003. But I did find this one from the VN Boards dated October 20th. 2003.
vnboards.ign.com/swg_general_discussion/b5184/58264128/p1/
The 9th post and on has some interesting talk about holocrons and what they do.
And this one dated November 4th, 2003. 4 days before the first FS unlocked.
swg.allakhazam.com/db/skills.html
"and working on Rifleman (thx to a sith holocron)" Hmmm but you said jedi were running around BEFORE holocrons. Yet this clearly shows that holocrons were telling people what to master BEFORE the first Force Sensitive unlocked. Hmmmm
If thats enough for you then I have this for you. The first person tells what she did to unlock.
swg.allakhazam.com/news/sdetail2617.html
Wow she says her first holocron told her to master ranger, second doctor, and third weaponsmith. Hmmm but how could they be doing that if holocrons werent telling people what to master before the first FS unlock. That is odd isnt it?
But as you said it doesnt really matter what I say right? Because I got facts and proof. Where's yours? Oh yah you havent presented any.
Kai
First of all it was the JEDI Elite noobs that thought they were better than everyone else that got them a bad name. (And No I'm not jealous they had a Glow bat and I didn't, people always accuse you of that when you make that statement) Second the only reason I know a lot of my friends went jedi is because they couldn't complete on a battlefield anymore once the glow bats showed up. Near the end I finally went jedi because I wanted a second toon. Opened the slot up and kept him a master weaponsmith, master Artisan, master Merchant.
Third there are a lot of plot lines in Starwars Episode IV though VI that didn't involve jedi at all, and were just as entertaining and eh hem "Starwarzy" True Jedi is a part of Star Wars but by no means does the Starwars World revolve around them post episode III the galaxy seems to have gotten along nicely without them. True the Story is about the rise of the Jedi renewed but there were <Carl Sagon> Billions upon Billions of creatures going on about there mundane lives with out them even seeing or even hearing about a JEDI.
As far as coming up with why jedi would be in this time period yea that's a given. Some escaped in episode III, however once they have been careless the entire Empire and Vader himself would have hunted them down. So someone showing off in theed with the glow bat out is well hmm Stupid and so un CANNON when the ST's didn't come enmass out to kill it or even Vader himself hunting the character down.
Peace
Hi, just got some counter points to offer.
As for your 1st point; there were elitist in many profession not just JEDI. But, I don't think those profession should have been thrown out because of those idiots.
Your 2nd point; again this isn't because there were JEDI..this had to do more with game and combat mechanics. Again there were other profession that many people strived for in order to gain combat supremacy [ie... combat medic, pistoleer].
Your 3rd point; The movies and many of the EU stuff tend to have elements of JEDI to one degree or another. However, I wasn't trying to suggest that SWG should have been a JEDI centric game. In fact, one of the greatest things about SWG pre-cu was that you could live your own virtual life in a Star Wars universe. TO be honest SWG: A Galaxy Divided should have been more about the GCW and allowing players to live a star wars virtual life. My point here was simply to state that those player [and there were many] who wanted to try for JEDI should be allowed, although it should have been difficult to get while being done in a smart way.
Your final point; is fairly valid. There should have been more risk for JEDI [although be equitable while maintain a level of fun] as well as risk for Bounty Hunters.
Anyhow those are my thoughts. It was the system and the mechanics not the presence of JEDI that hurt the game. Although it was still a great game. I haven't been able to find anything comparable since SWG: Pre-CU.
IMO and in Peace,
Tauceti