Do you like what WOW did to the industry?

Ropho · April 2007

Used to be that MMORPG's was just a small genre in the gaming world. Us veteran from the UO, EQ, DAOC days liked that because the community used to be more mature and games were actually more open ended.

Then came WOW. It changed the face of MMO's. Now questing is almost a requirement. People don't know what to do so they search helplesslly for more "quests". Gone are the days of spot grinding and just enjoying a great time with your group. With it's success WOW also brought a lot of new people into it. Some are ok, but most are immature to say the least.

WOW made it easy, its an enjoyable ride albeit an easy one. Some might say that it ruined MMO's. (NGE Anyone). And some say that it has casted a big bright light on the MMO world that was just not present before.

It will be really hard to bread the WOW mold, because a lot of companies seeing how suscefull it is just want to copy.

What do you guys think?

PrebThor · April 2007

Whatever Blizzard did to the industry by launching World of WarCraft, be it good or bad, can only be done once, I'll give them that. To answer your question: No, I don't like what Blizzard did to the industry, but by putting all the things that worked well in other games into their own monstrosity, they raised the bar by making players expect more from MMOs.

UPDATE: Damn, this comment sure was contradictory. The room is spinning...

Razperil · April 2007

There have been several of these type of things already posted. If you hadn't noticed, quite a few of them are being locked. It's time to talk about more constructive things.

Daring · April 2007

I agree, WoW has done something to the genre. It has opened it up to a lot of people who would not have normally played an MMO. But I believe that other MMOs should try to break that mold and give the public something new too. To me WoW was great to play, but not the best. I personally like other MMOs better.

dtritus · April 2007

Well, I never played UO, but I did play a lot of EQ.

A fair amount of people played EQ. Most of them complained about it endlessly. There was really no other game to play of it's kind untill AC and DAoC came along and by then EQ had a lot more content and people had sunk a lot of time into it so they stayed.

Now there are a host of MMO's to choose from. Most people choose to play WoW. I myself have tried many different games and always go back to WoW becuase I enjoy playing it more than other games. When something I like better comes along I will likely start playing that instead.

I would also like to point out that the gameing industry is a business. Always has been. Companies make games to sell to make money. Make a better game and you make more money. That's life.

What is the problem with a game that appeals to many different people?

I would also like to point out that Lineage 1 and 2 had millions of player years before WoW came along.

If you want to play a low population game, then there are a lot to choose from. Some are even very high quality like EQ2 or CoH / CoV.

I guess my point is that you shouldn't complain because a game you don't like is being played by a lot of people. You can always choose to play something else, or nothing at all. They are only games after all.

Wizey · April 2007

Such flow of events was predictable, WoW was one of the game that brought MMORPG-s to public and now most people don't feel comfortable when playing some MMORPG with system much different than WoW.

But just like in any industries, there will be room for much more different games than WoW, witch will suite best for the oldschoolers.

And don't you think it was inevitable?

I think it would of happen anyways, I'm just glad it was Blizzard..

dodsfall · April 2007

Blizzard has proved there is a huge market and a lot of money to be made in the genre. Most of the game play from WoW is borrowed from previous games and made more "mainstream" by it's success. There will be imitators of WoW trying to ride on the coattails of it's success, but a lot more venture capital is being spent in the industry for MMOs. Different game dynamics are being tried all the time. Some will work financially and some will not. This will mean more choices for those who like to play MMOs down the road.

I think all-in-all it's a good thing.

cityzen · April 2007

IMO:

I don't know that the community has gotten less mature becaus of WoW, just that the more people you have in one place, the more jerks there will be.

I think WoW did a lot of things right to appeal to a large audience, but as the audience matures so will the games, people will seek these more sophisticated games out, plenty of people have already left WoW for more sophisticated games. I do think WoW's endgame take some skill and coordination, getting 40+ people to play their roles or wipe is pretty challenging, though more in a hearding cats kind of way.

As far as questing goes...I think one of the things that we like about entertainment is the stories, and questing is a good way to tell a story, so I don't think that's going away. We might get better ways to see a story told and be able to participate.

I don't see anything wrong with companies using WoW for inspiration, WoW used games that came before it, for as long as I can remember the video game industry has done this, and I played pong on the atari 2600.

Do I like it? Yes and No.

Lucifrank · April 2007

I think what WoW did for the industry is great, even though gamers (myself included) tend to reflect on the more immediate, negative repercussions of WoW on MMORPGs. WoW brought MMORPGs into the mainstream. I'm not implying that "mainstream" equals good, however, WoW showed that these types of games can be hugely successful.

This equals more developers sinking more money into developing MMORPGs. And ultimately, more developers creating more MMORPGs means more competition, which (hopefully) means more innovations and advances in the genre as companies try to stand out in the market.

I think the immediate state of the industry is far from this. Just read these forums daily and you'll see countless posts by gamers tired of class-based gameplay, tired of the typical fantasy RPG fare, and a million-and-one other gripes. But there are some interesting things on the horizon, and as the market expands, so does room for possibility and innovation.

kkat69 · April 2007

Originally posted by Ropho

It will be really hard to bread the WOW mold, because a lot of companies seeing how suscefull it is just want to copy.

What do you think WoW did? Bliz took aspects from many mmo's and rolled it into one. While other mmo's where trying to be unique in their own right, Bliz just took the best aspects of them or at least most of the best aspects and rolled it into one mmo.

WoW is nothing but copied pieces of many mmo's rolled into one.

Now ppl are debating "should we be unique or another carbon copy" and are reluctant to go out on a limb like others done "pre-wow" since the populous nit picks every mmo that comes out.

Being unique now is something that companies just aren't willing to put to much money into. Before they would.

"what WoW did to the industry?" It only did to the industry because the gamers let it. Rather than take each new game and judge it on it's own right, you constantly see things like "wow this, this is like wow, why can't my hunter have a pet like in wow, more orcs?, WTH, wow does it why can't they." and flame after flame until ppl just ditch the very idea of even trying the new game simply due to the flame fest of wow comparisons.

Blizzard/WoW isn't doing that, we the community are!

I'm not saying that the concepts that Bliz put into wow aren't great, in fact they did a good job combining all the aspects of the other mmo's at the time and rolling it into a very nice package all the while expanding on the Warcraft lore. For ppl like myself who remember playing Warcraft 1 on windows 3.11 and kept playing warcraft, this was very kewl. For me it wasn't the mechanix that drew me to the game, it was the WARCRAFT lore. I've played warcraft for years and I enjoy it.

HOWEVER, Companies need to take the chance like they did before wow (SWG pre-cu is a perfect example of a very unique system both char and crafting) and we the people need to stop comparing every game TO WoW and judge them for what they have to offer.

Deivos · April 2007

I've never considered anything Blizzard with WoW to be original or even that interesting. For me the level of gameplay was just too simple, the competitive side was wonky, and as much balancing as they have tried to attempt, they have thrown off so much of the class balance that used to exist outside pvp. That being said, the PvP is still imbalanced...

As others have said, all WoW has done for the industry was push it in the same direction other games and movies have gone. Whe WoW first came out, me and all my firends were actually comparing many of what it did to what Everquest has already done, graphically speaking as well...

Only thing WoW has done is show that even mmo gamers can be entertained by the lowest quality ripoff one could imagine same as most movie goers and normal gamers. What WoW did was bad, it has helped poke the mmo industry in a very boring direction.

NOTE: To call what they did to WoW lore as far as "expanding"...that would be comparable to removing someones head and calling it "weight loss".

Huria · April 2007

Blizzard made the MMO genre mainstream basically. It is now not something only social outcasts do. (Not saying it was before, just saying what most of the mainstream pop culture though of MMO). Basically right now the stuff you are seeing is everyone trying to hop on the money train before it's dead. In a couple years we will start seeing a lot more newer things done with MMOs then the basic clone of WoW.

Josher · April 2007

If a bunch of MMORPG elitists/experts leave the genre in disgust...I'm all for it;) j/k

Bringing some real quality to the genre can hardly be called a negative. For those who can't see the difference between copying features and making them better, stick to those niche titles. You can stew in your hatred of the mainstream;)

LOTR using Ring icons for quests instead of exclamation points is a copy. Its hard to find anything Blizzard copied from EQ without making it less tedious, more streamlined and fun. But I guess Blizzard copied everyone because they used EXP, levels, mobs, ect. What hacks=) Its not copying anyway...its giving people what they want. Guess Toyota copied GM by keeping that steering wheel. Car companies have to stick joysticks in their cars so that they're innovative, even if a joystick would suck compared to a wheel!!! Some people think DIFFERENT is always better, even if the majority think it stinks.

0k21 · April 2007

I agree with many of the points here, the main problem with this kind of 'mainstream' marketing is that developers fail to realize that they can't keep people hooked on the same thing forever, that is why I believe so many people are now complaining about TBC, it wasn't an 'expansion' so to speak, sure, it gave a new continent, but it was pretty much the same game with different textures, quests and items, though then again looking at some of the stuff there it just looks like the same thing entirely to me. Developers need to start thinking out the box and with titles such as the Firefly MMORPG, Darkfall and even Age of Conan, I believe they are beginning to which is incredibly refreshing, but I think 2007 is going to be an extremely boring year for me with the MMORPG's that are coming out.

Deivos · April 2007

As far as gameplay goes, play any Korean mmo and you will see just how generic and unimproved WoW's gameplay is.

Play Everquest and compare that to WoW. WoW hasn't improved anything there, they just took the things that Everquest has refined over it's years of existence.

The PvP doesn't seem to be much of a copy, but that doesn't matter because the PvP is sub-par anyways compared to DAoC and likely soon WAR.

The point is, WoW really and truly improved nothing in what they did, hell even the graphical assets aren't an improvement. One thing to loving note about that is they used an engine that copied it's Warcraft 3 system. So where some of their graphical design was on purpose, other things such as no shader technology, low poly assets, and flat textures were all because they didn't bother improving their development software.

Hell, WoW even lowered the quality of some things. They basically said it was ok to rip apart and rearrange the entire basis of the game and destroy what continuity it had for the sake of more sales.

There is nothing I find innovative or improved about WoW, in fact I'm willing to claim that they took some standards and lowered them.

thetank · April 2007

YES i LIKE it!

You might hate the gameplay, u might hate the PvP, u might hate the customer support, u might hate all the kids, u might hate the end-game grind and everything that comes along with it but they did one thing very well!!

They showed the gaming companies that they CAN and they WILL make money with MMORPGs if you know what you are doing.

Thanks to them the meaning of "a good MMORPG" got higer and higer as we can see with the future release of games like AoC and WAR.

WoW also was good for companies to undertand what the minorities wanted because Warcraft is a game loced of rmany and hated by few..

dtritus · April 2007

To draw a comparason between WoW and EQ1.... (sort of off topic)

The thing I loved about EQ1 was the way a balanced group could turn a difficult encounter into an easy one. The things I hated about EQ1 is pretty much everything else... spending 100's of hours camping mobs for quest drops was just not fun. Spending over an hour a play sessions trying to get a group going was not fun. The auction house was fun. The way new items made my toons look different was fun. Rare spawn camping was not fun.

The things I like about WoW is that usually I get a group withing 5 min. of looking for one. Balanced groups can still make difficult encounters easy. Quest items drop reasonably quickly. The interface is very intuative and user friendly. Basically I can do things in WoW in a 2 or 3 hour time that would have taken 20 - 30 hours in EQ1. I like that. I like that WoW made using a shield actually usefull. I like that usefull items are reasonably easy to aquire. Capture the flag is perhaps the best thing I have ever done in an MMO. The thing I don't like about WoW is the presure to join raid guilds, but that was the same in EQ really. I do like that they have made ways of getting high end items without the need to raid, but it is still very time consuming to grind rep. I suppose if they make things go too quickly or easily then they would loose people interest. I dislike that 60% or so of the people who play WoW are incredibly immature. But I have found a couple of guild with decent folk in them.

I recently went back and tried the EQ free trial. I can't beleve I spent so much time playing that game. The game pace and down time now seem intolerable.

From my point of view, WoW took a lot of the thing EQ was doing and made them fun.

Godliest · April 2007

Well, what WoW did to the industry was gonna happen sooner or later. MMORPGs were pretty new and had so far only attracted a more hardcore community. Then came WoW and attracted thousands (maybe millions, I don't know) of new players.

You say that many of those that joined the MMORPG community when Wow came was immature. This may be true, and it may not. What I do believe however is that those who are immature now must be seen as rookies, they are beginners. They are acting immature beause they don't know how to behave in a "world" like the MMORPGs. They don't truly understand they should behave just like in real life and treat everyone nicely.

But are all these new immature players really something bad? No, in my opinion. Some of the immature players will quit the MMORPGs, and some will simply grow up and become more mature. You can't stay immature for the rest of ur life, I don't think so anyways. As I do think they will grow up and become mature and be a nice part of the MMORPG community.

My conclusion is therefore that I think that what is a problem now will solve itselve and will make the MMORPG community much better. Cause in the end, isn't it boring sitting and playing with a tight little group of hardcore players? It's always good with some fresh blood and some new thinking.

The older community is simply afraid of disturbing their hardcore community they have built up. In the end, they may however realize that u can't stay in the same small hardcore community for the rest of ur life, u need new fresh blood, new ideas, new people!

What WoW did was gonna happen sooner or later, now it just happened sooner (or maybe later, who cares?).

This is my opinion.

Omega3 · April 2007

WoW set the bar in the degree of art, polishing and stability.

Just like i stopped buying games who get a review under 17/20 in general, i'll not buy a MMO unless it is highly polished and stable.

However the commercial success is going to spawn countless clones of lesser quality with the same boring mechanics. In that respect, WoW was probably a necessary evil... like microsoft and windows.

Hexxeity · April 2007

I am a veteran from the UO, EQ, DAoC days. I hate things like FFA PvP and spot grinding. I love quests. I don't necessarily love all of WoW's quests -- they have plenty of bad ones mixed in with the good. At any rate, questing was mainstream long before WoW came along. WoW actually brought very little new to the table.

I don't think Blizzard "did" anything to the genre other than to bring a lot more interest and potential subscribers. WoW is a terrific introduction to MMOGs if you've never played one before.

I certainly don't think new games always feel like they have to follow the same path as WoW in order to be successful. Games have quests because people like to do them. Games have BAD quests because the designers are inexperienced or untalented. There are several games out there with good quests written by talented people. I just wish the latter were true more often.

The days of spot grinding are certainly not over. In fact, you can easily do it in WoW if you enjoy that kind of thing. It's not the most efficient way to level, but if you enjoy grinding so much, why do you care about leveling up fast? FFXI is a very grindy game if that's the kind of thing you like.

If you love the good old days so much, why not join a progression server in EQ?

alphajonny · April 2007

Originally posted by Lucifrank

I think what WoW did for the industry is great, even though gamers (myself included) tend to reflect on the more immediate, negative repercussions of WoW on MMORPGs. WoW brought MMORPGs into the mainstream. I'm not implying that "mainstream" equals good, however, WoW showed that these types of games can be hugely successful.
This equals more developers sinking more money into developing MMORPGs. And ultimately, more developers creating more MMORPGs means more competition, which (hopefully) means more innovations and advances in the genre as companies try to stand out in the market.
I think the immediate state of the industry is far from this. Just read these forums daily and you'll see countless posts by gamers tired of class-based gameplay, tired of the typical fantasy RPG fare, and a million-and-one other gripes. But there are some interesting things on the horizon, and as the market expands, so does room for possibility and innovation.

QFT!

I cant agree more. WoW may not be everyones cup of tea but they really did open the doors for the mainstream MMORPG. Its ok and even cool to play these games now and those people will eventually split off to play other games. This can only show the viability of the market and get more developers/investors involved. WoW simply took a snail paced market and turned it into a turtle. Lets hope it just keeps getting better.

healz4u · April 2007

To be honest, WoW has done so much it is equally difficult to begin as it would be to end.

WoW is the gold-standard for MMORPGs currently, and that is both a positive and negative thing.

The world felt the same to me - everywhere. I did not particularly like that. I would possibly be subscribed to WoW right now if the world had a more genuine feel to it.

zethcarn · April 2007

I like that WoW brought more attention to the MMO genre.

I DON'T like that WoW made a easymode MMO.

Expect several companies to follow this trend until at least 2009, then things might make a turn for the better. IMO.

Woopin · April 2007

Originally posted by Ropho

Used to be that MMORPG's was just a small genre in the gaming world. Us veteran from the UO, EQ, DAOC days liked that because the community used to be more mature and games were actually more open ended.

Then came WOW. It changed the face of MMO's. Now questing is almost a requirement. People don't know what to do so they search helplesslly for more "quests". Gone are the days of spot grinding and just enjoying a great time with your group. With it's success WOW also brought a lot of new people into it. Some are ok, but most are immature to say the least.

WOW made it easy, its an enjoyable ride albeit an easy one. Some might say that it ruined MMO's. (NGE Anyone). And some say that it has casted a big bright light on the MMO world that was just not present before.

It will be really hard to bread the WOW mold, because a lot of companies seeing how suscefull it is just want to copy.

What do you guys think?

I have to agree and disagree there is game coming not based on the WoW mold, yes wow did and still is doing good but not everyone likes wow I like it now and again but only in small doases.

Companys that copy the wow mold are not forced to do good WoW did so good because of the Warcraft fan base thats about it really.

I think wow may have slowed the market down because people are now having to think more and work harder to bring out a good title to compete against wow and I can not see a WoW killer coming out any time soon.

I guess time will tell on how well future titles do.

AutemOx · April 2007

To me, blizzards success reinforced the already present idea that the best money maker is a linear fantasy mmorpg, which I dont like.

Also WoW presents a high focus on large group raids, which I find boring and frustrating. It also focuses on gear based combat, which I dont enjoy.

The two unique things I think WoW has brought to mmorpg development is the quest web, which has become something that new mmorpgs are expected to have now, and personally I think is a waste of development time. The only difference between quest grind and normal grind as far as im concerned is grinding quests I dont get to decide what monsters to kill, it is decided for me, and when I want to play with friends theres always some shuffle as we try to find a quest that neither of us have completed, often leading us to play solo as opposed to grouping.

The other thing that I think mmorpgs didnt really have previously to WoW is all the different mounts, instead of just horses. I really like mounts, but I could care less about different types of mounts, just a waste of art teams time for me, I would much rather see horse customization than having 10 different animal types but all of them clones.

So all in all, I very much do not like what WoW has added in terms of mmorpg expectations and how WoWs existence has effected the creation of newer MMORPGs.

Two examples of what I think is directly related to the success of WoW is SWG's NGE (which still bothers me after all this time) and the change of Middle Earth Online (which was once going to have player housing, vendors, gardening, and roleplaying tools) to what we now know as LOTRo.

SStifter · April 2007

being a UO boy right from the get go when it was released, I really hated to see what WoW did to the MMO community. So many games out there try to copy WoW because it is the success story of the Decade. I really hope Lord British does well with Tabula Rasa. The man is a genius when it comes to games and I hope it works out for them.

I have an intrinsic (haha, trinsic! :P) distain for WoW because, quite frankly, most of their content is copied from other games. the only thing that appears to be their invention is the quest system. which i hate too, because for me, MMO is about open ended gameplay.

EA should seriously release UO:T2A again. get rid of all the bugs and make it a free to use MMO.

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