LotRO Is without hesitation the biggest letdown ive ever had in MMO's.
This is a game that plays it safe at every turn and therefore creates none of the feeling we get reading the books.
Had JRR Tolkien wrote his books like this game was made he would have written a disney story!!
The battles are boring, you spend all the time fighitng clicking buttons that feel to use very non descript powers so you rarely if ever look at the action. When you do look at the action your looking at nothing realistic in feel. the huge glowy cirscle around your prey makes sure of that.
Any serious game on this subject that calls itself an MMO will have player controlled orcs and goblins and trolls to name a few in it. that isnt negotiable. the idea of creating a game that makes you feel like your taking part in the story we already know was so obsurd that it makes the mind wobble. A game like this should feel new and fresh, and even in its pVe it fails miserably.
IT should have taken place before or even after the trilogy. And when you judge it on its merits for what it tried to accomplish it still fails.
In every moment I played it I never felt that it put me in the thick of heartpounding drama. it felt like a bad safe WoW without the PvP which was the best part of WoW....
I love Lord of the Rings and now I am sad at the prospect of waiting many many many years to have a crack at this done right.
Funny how your love only able to speak up now , where was your love 1 year ago ? how about 6 months ago. Funny how you and your love have shown up a few days till this titles release. SOE is Pathetic
Performance / Functionality. I think I've crashed a total of once, ever. I can run this game on a 3 year old laptop on the highest settings with zero lag even in a crowded town. All of the quests I've tried to do function. I don't crash or get glitched or randomly portalled across the world when I zone. Things work as intended.
Graphics. For the system requirements needed to run this game, the graphics are amazing. Sure, Vanguard at the highest settings looks nicer, but then...who can really play Vanguard at the highest settings? 99% of people can't. The avatars are very reminiscent of WoW, but at least you have a bit more customization than 'choosing a face and haircut'. Granted, it isn't much.
Immersion. Its a world that is very easy to get into. You don't feel like you're having your hand held, no glowing path to your quest waypoint, no big target on the map, you actually have to look around, read your quest info, etc. The quests, while of the typical go-here-get-that-kill-this nature, at least have a bit of storyline with them or relate back to the LOTR trilogy in some way, rather than being completely mindless. Example, in the newbie elf area, there are two brothers - one who is ready to board the white ships and one who wants to stay in middle earth, and you do various tasks for each of them as they try to 'convince' each other to go or stay, tasks that cause each NPC to reminisce on their times of joy and hardship in Middle Earth. Which if we compare to other games, the kind that involve "Go get me 10 boar hooves." without tellig you why, well, its a notch up at the very least. Also, deeds in each area make grinding nonexistent, or at least less painful. You have other objectives in each area which you get a permanent stat trait reward for rather than a handful of coins and a crappy sword. These traits can be equipped on your character and allow some bit of customization as everyone choooses not only what traits to go complete, but which to equip.
Community. Sad to say it, but most games that have PvP attract a large number of unsavory people. Being mostly free of PvP, we don't have the pvp kiddie crowd in Lotro, we don't have ganking, we don't have E-Peens, etc. or at least, not to the extent you do in games where PvP is present. The PvMP system is pretty interesting though, and for people who enjoy pvp for its own sake rather than to lord it over their fellow players, get satisfaction from picking on people, etc. it really should be adequate as the monster characters all have their own unique skills, traits, and growth.
The Bad >
Stat growth is static, based on your class. Skills are learned at certain lvls, based on your class. Equipment is dependent on your level and class.
The above three things are very restricting. However, quite honestly, this is the direction almost all MMOs have taken. Gone are the old school days of your character's skills being a measuring point for equipment or skill learning. Now the "level" number has become more and more important, whereas in older games like AC1 or AO, level was just a number that meant very little because stats or skills, which could be tweaked and customized and minmaxed, allowed rigorous customization. Even Vanguard let you distribute your stats, although it did some of them for you, and you didn't get total control over it, particularly if you were a non-human race. But still, all in all, it was something. LOTRO gives you nothing other than your choice of traits and equipment.
So its another game where I could log off my minstrel, and log on someone else's minstrel and not really notice much of a difference, particularly if we stripped both characters naked and unequipped their traits, they'd be twins. Boring.
The Economy. As it stands, the economy is horrid, at least on my server (Meneldor). People are selling level 12-15 weapons for 800 silver to a gold, and people are paying these prices. I know that this was largely due to an early exploit that has since been fixed, but prices haven't come down. 200-300s for a stack of 50 ore, et cetera. I can go hunt lvl 16-18 mobs for a few hours solo and assuming I don't die (which is always possible) I might make 50s profit after repairs. Maybe. So, I did what others did and took up the farming profession, where you can crank out a gold in 8 mind numbing hours of tilling the fields. But this is what I had to do to be able to afford my REPAIRS. Because at this stage, if I'm grouped and only getting half the loot? (Or 1/6th of the loot in a full team?) It actually costs me money to go adventuring. Add that to the ridiculous prices people want for most drops and you have an economy problem. Of course, this is easily fixed by bringing repair costs down to reasonable levels so that adventuring actually yielded a bit of profit, and hopefully it is in the works. The farming nerf goes live today so that will no longer be an option.
Repetition. Yes, if you make another character of the same race, you're confronted by the same area and the same quests. I have three characters at 15, two humans and and elf, and I must admit my second human was very tedious doing all the same runaround for a second time. However, the game DOES give you a bit of freedom, you aren't locked into the area as you are in some games. You are free to travel. If you want to do the dwarf questline as a human well, a couple silver will get you there. Though the deeds in every area are worth doing, and deed grinding on a second character is something I don't even want to think about at the moment.
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So all in all, it has its ups and downs. I wouldnt call this game awful or a let down or a waste of money, in fact, I think its alright. Turbine has shown that they are at least somewhat committed to authenticity - and while DDO was not as successful as it could have been, they DID stay true to the rules of D&D rather than inventing a bunch of fluff. Its the same with LOTRO. They are staying true to the story and the world that the story is told in rather than adding fluff. But that story also has limitations, and you can't have authenticity without a bit of sacrifice. No, I don't think this is the "next big thing", but it will definitely do for now.
Gaming? That's not gaming! That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
Stats are not static, You have a base set and then you tweak them with your Armor and weapon. All three make it a little more dynamic then you give it credit for .
Skills can be upgraded , as well as unlocking trait skills. Example the Minstrel has a Headbutt move which can only be unlocked with the Deeds. The Deeds system is a huge part of the skill sets. People just play like only a few levels and just aren't even scratching the surface of the skills and Deed system.
I've never played a game where you didn't have to do the same quest at the starting areas. If you know of a game of the fantasy genre
Many people had interesting points but I've been surprised with how much fun LotRO is, and I never expected to play it until I tried the World Tour.
IT's linear, sure but what MMO are people talking about that isn't repetitive, or doesn't lack variety. Since SWG failed/was killed off, only VAnguard has tried the "sandbox" approach, with no instances, etc but when Ramz in a previous post complains of the "glowing circle" around targets, umm WTH? Every mmo has glowy targeting system, and btw- MMO's are usually (90%) about hitting specials and skills in some form of turn-based/spam-special system.
Yeah it would be nice if MMO's took massive leaps suddenly, innovating gameplay radically and ramping up the drama but... complaining that Lotro didn't radically change the MMO genre is like saying a book is boring because you have to read page 1 before page 2, AGAIN! As if every book hasn't always been read this way- BORING!
If you don't like Lotro I think it just comes down to personal preference.
Before Vanguard came out, I was convinced "this is the game for me" - big world to explore, flying and sailing, great art direction, realistic travelling and caravans, etc
Then it came out and suddenly I found myself saying- "jebus i don't have time to walk around looking for quests aimlessly" and after a month of "2 hours isn't enough time to get anything done" I was just over it. Tried the Lotro and found myself saying, well I only have an hour but I might be able to get 1/2 a level, craft some junk and put it up in the AH or run around harvesting- which just works for me better. 4 years ago maybe Vanguard would've been the game for me, but I don't live inside MMO's anymore. I just visit them everyday.
I was thinking of the word "linear" and seems that every game and mmo is linear ,
Lineage 2 is linear with grinding to gain xp
Vanguard is Linear in Diplomacy being the only avenue for success in game
Asain mmo 's as a general are linear to grinding for xp
eve online is linear that you only fly in space
Shadowbane is linear that it has no quest
Every game is linear , Lord of the Rings is Linear that you have to complete quest to really gain leevels , but that is a lot more fun to me then just grinding mobs .
Get a clue ... when people refer to linear games they mean there is only ONE route through it.
WoW was fairly linear, if you wanted to get the best gear you had to get to max level and raid.
EVE on the other hand isnt, if you want to be good in PvP you can pick a variety of options, battleships, command ships, recon, capital etc and the PvP operates on different levels and scales, from frigate skirmishes to full scale fleet battles. You can also play a major role in the game as a manufacturer, trader or miner amongst many other options. Saying EVE is linear because you can only fly ships in space is like saying life is linear because you can only drive cars on roads, there is so much more to both.
Fact of the matter is most people prefer linear MMOs, as they arent required to think for themselves or act on their own initiative. They play them simply to relax and take their minds off of real life, this is why simplistic spoonfed MMOs like WoW are more popular than those that force you to carve your own path.
"Fact of the matter is most people prefer linear MMOs, as they arent required to think for themselves or act on their own initiative. They play them simply to relax and take their minds off of real life, this is why simplistic spoonfed MMOs like WoW are more popular than those that force you to carve your own path."
QFT..........
This pretty much describes the MMO genre in its current state.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Guys you've hyped this game way too much. Ive tried LOTRO again to see maybe it has gotten better, but no. I've been a 'hyper' of this game since I started playing it in open beta. I guess it boils down to what works for you and what doesn't. It works for me thus far. How do you guys cope with the lack of variety of character progression (now please do not come with traits, most gamers collect the same traits). In addition, it is difficult to even seperate the gamers around you, every body looks very similar, similar colors, wheres the individuality?? This was like it even at higher levels during the closed beta and so shortly before launch it is still the same. We are all capped at level 15 so I really can't see what you are saying... the progress from 1 to 15 was fun and engaging. As to the look and functionality of the models and skins, while I think they are not as good as they should be (take the walking animation for instance) I think they are good enough not to interfere with my immersion. Quests boil down to delivery and kill quests, nothing innovative here. If you create another char you are forced do the same scripted instances in the beginning, and even in the village its always the same few quests, no wonder they are not bugged, there are not that many as people think. Yes aside from the epic stuff there is the kill, collect and deliver element to the quests. I guess if you are engaged in the story and environs that element doesn't detract. I will agree completely about starting other characters - essentially you have two starting areas with a consistent set of quests therein. I would like to see that changed. You can skip the 'starter area cage' once you have done it with one character though. This game is only about killing, in spite of providing some nice rp tools, that is very subjective. You can do what you like. I like the killing part, but also like the crafting, and general exploring stuff along with finding familiar lore elements. For example, I think the Old Forest is a blast just to wander around in, trying to figure out some sense of direction and the like. So shortly before launch there are quite a few bugs, no weather, many emotes do not work. Weather in abundance working fine as far as I can report, bugs? I saw one real one where we had to restart the instance just after we got into it because the NPC just stood there and didn't get it started. Emotes seem to be working fine - lots of them too. And for the people who state the animations are good... gosh it reminds me utterly of animatronics. The lack of polygon really shows also on the bodies of the chars, eg look at the arms and hands. Character models are not the best for sure. Way better than Vanguard but not as smooth feeling as WOW. I think the walking animation of my elf hunter looks retarded. But overall they are ok and don't really distract me from the fun!
Tell me how do you go from levels 1-75 in lineage 2 , if it was not linear it would be dynamic, and dynamic would mean I would have other avenues of gaining xp. Again , with any game that has you grinding from a..................z ,is linear.
Again you want linear to be only a word you can use, linear is not jjust about picking skills but about the over all content. EVE is LINEAR , you never get out of your space ship ? you only have a space ship that flys around space, doesn't get much more linear then that. Can you get out of your space ship and walk around ? Can you board another players spaceship ? Nope, LINEAR , you have 1 access of visual, being you spaceship.
LotrO Epic story line has a clear path, that is what makes it awesome, here is why, cause there will always be a party for it. No matter what part of the Epic line your on ,you will always find a group and that is what makes it dynamic. Dynamic in social interaction . That is the game breaker for a lot of games, the linear quality of how they (don't) bring people together. Turbine seems to have created the building block or Innovation (I said it) on game design with this Epic Story system.
Now for the Combat, you say because it is a tree , it can't be fun. I always found the combat in mmo something secondary, it isn't what I look for in a mmo that makes or breaks a game. This combat system is a traditional system at a glance and seems very stale and "linear" but once you start seeing you can level each individual skill , it becomes a little more dynamic. Then you see you can get traits to equip that enhance skills and also give you new moves and skills, then it does become dynamic.
For me LotrO is very dynamic in it's presentation, but for you, the only real limit is your own .
You may say that you know what linear means but apparently you do not. But since you insist I can bring up the definition of linear from a dictionary:
having the form of a line; straight.
(Mathematics) of a class of polynomial of the form y = a.x + b.
(Mathematics) an approximation to first order.
(Physics) a type of length measurement involving only one spatial dimension (as contrasted with a higher-dimensional measurement such as area or volume.
The interesting parts here are point 1 and 4. Having the form of a line means that to get from point a to point b there is only one way, and that is the straight line. So if you want to level from lvl 1-XX and there is only one or a few ways of doing so then the game is linear. Same with skills, if you can only get skill A at level X then skill B at level Y then again it is linear because there is no way to deviate from the "line".
"Being in a spaceship" is not enough to be linear as that is not in itself a progression so there is no point A to B. However getting skills is a progression and in Eve you can pick skills fairly freely. There are prerequisites but the skill tree is massive, it is more like a forest so at any time you can pick up to 30+ different skills to train and you can do that in any combination you like, clearly not linear as of the definitions above. Furthermore, playing Eve is not a bit linear as you have many options to pursue. You dont need to follow any strict storyline path (again point A to B in a straight line) but you can mine, be a pirate, trade, smuggle, scam and so on while progressing your character.
As for being "fun" that is another question entirely as that is subjective. However something being linear is not subjective and LOTR is very linear and no if or maybes about it. It is not strictly linear but no games are however it has strong tendencies toward being a linear game.
For me I see how Space traveling in a game which you can't get out of you ship and move is not linear now, it is actually nothing. There is nothing there but your ship. So what do you call nothing ? Since there's no point A get out of your ship and point B get into your ship, there is nothing but the ship , flying space. YAWN , really , I played Eve for a total of 3 weeks before I got bored off my ass of the repetitive cargo runs and go kill some bandits, only cool thing was the Art of Noise style of drum and bass music, and soon as I turned that off, that game just fizzled. It was nothing, kind of like space, just a bunch of nothing.
I'm a fan of LotrO, the game that will be a lot of peoples home, a place of warmth , charity and good will, a place of virtues and honor. A place for real Heroes of gaming.
You can have you spaceship of nothing, I will have my ale , a smoke of the finest pipe weed and maybe par take in a little jam session. Let em know when you can play a Lute with your spaceship and I may come check eve out again .
Why do people find it necessary to misuse well defined words in order to make their point seem more intelligent?
Linear has a VERY specific meaning in gaming. LINEAR means that the gameplay follows a SPECIFIC predefined path from which you cannot deviate. A STORY driven RPG where the story elements "unlock" as you complete specific predetermined tasks and all lead to ONE ending, is linear. A game like Oblivon, or ALL MMOs by their basic fundamental design, are NON LINEAR. They are non linear because you dont have to *do* anything. You can just run around like an idiot from one end of the world to the other with very few exceptions. There is NO cohesive "story" because the game is not designed to end. Even in single player Oblivion, the "main quest" isnt really mandatory and you can play 100s of hours ignoring it.
In a linear RPG, if you dont move the ball forward, you stay in the first 10 minutes of content with NPCs repeating the same things forever. Linear or non-linear in game design has nothing to do with walking in a line vs flying in space or leveling vs assigning skills. Just because the WORD linear can be applied to one of those actions doesnt and cant change the fact that within the CONTEXT of game design, it has SPECIFIC meaning.
Among game designers and developers these terms are not ambiguous. Terms arent just freely exchangeable because someone feels the definition kind of sort of maybe could fit something else. This is just like the debate over the term "sandbox". Just choose a different (non well defined) term if you need one. Context means alot when you're talking within a specific discipline.
The Epic Story Is linear, But you don't have to do that story line to advance your character. You can Do other quests and grind.
The thing a lot people are missing , it is the Story of Lord of The Rings, and instead of reading it , or watching the movie, you get play inside of the World . You can just Walk around if you want and smoke pip weed, you could be a hunter in the woods trapping and killing wild life. It is pretty awesome , once you let yourself open to it's nature and lore .
I've haven't be this happy to log into a game in a long time, and there is absolutely nothing anyone can say that would change that feeling. I hope you all find a game that gives you that kind of joy someday .
First, I havent mentioned vanguard once in my post, second, I do not have an active account there anyway. So why change the topic??
His argument didn't stand a chance, so he changed topics... It's typical of a poster who doesn't read the entire post usually.... Like I could be doing right now, I didn't actually read a lot of what was said, but still gave an oracle like answer...
No. Actually I'm f**ing bored to death with the same old tired, unispired commentary on LOTRO. I have on numerous occasions refuted these arguments. I could not stand one more spleen gushing, so I wanted to make this thread less boring to me.
First, I havent mentioned vanguard once in my post, second, I do not have an active account there anyway. So why change the topic??
His argument didn't stand a chance, so he changed topics... It's typical of a poster who doesn't read the entire post usually.... Like I could be doing right now, I didn't actually read a lot of what was said, but still gave an oracle like answer...
No. Actually I'm f**ing bored to death with the same old tired, unispired commentary on LOTRO. I have on numerous occasions refuted these arguments. I could not stand one more spleen gushing, so I wanted to make this thread less boring to me.
Seems the OP has a vendetta. Sad that he can't let it go.
Come one guys it is so obvious, the OP is Brad making some viral reverse marketing :-)
It does have the "party line" quality of an inept viral marketing secret agent person.
Hokay, /sarcasmon
It is entirely true that LotRO is both linear and a WoW clone; conclusive proof follows!
It is a well known fact, is it not, that in LotRO, you MUST achieve level 2 before even beginning to be allowed to barely begin to reach level 3! An intolerable strait jacket!! And anyone can see that WoW uses the very same system??? Clone???? You decide!!!!!
/sarcasmoff
WoW borrowed a lot of its UI from Horizons, which had a very advanced (for its day) UI, and which worked very well. And Hz, even though it had many innovations, built on the best of previous efforts. (EQ not among them. I hated the EQ interface. ) And of course many, many other MMO conventions are shared between them, and with many other games as well. But a game is (or better be!) much more than its list of mechanics and features.
For me, the key question is "Does playing one game feel like the other?" I don't find that playing LotRO feels like playing WoW. Both games' mechanics are polished enough, and the UI is transparent enough that those qualities are pretty well transparent, leaving you with the essence of the games. At that level, reduced to the reason we buy a game, I find the two to be quite different.
The quest instancing and epic story line are major differentiators, let along the Canon.
Well, I come on to mmorpg.com to read up on the new mmos coming out and find out some information about each game. I think I must be a glutton for punishment. Anyone that brings up something even remotely negative the band wagon comes on in and floods the thread. I read the ones that have great things to say and I read the ones that have bad things to say. I will not let fan boys or trolls make me not play this game but jesus people, let others have an opinion too, good or bad.
this caught my eye a few pages back.
" Hey, no game suits everyone. Unfortunately you cannot appreciate a well done game. I suggest trying the free grind to death Korean MMO's out there, they seem more suited to your style."
That statement makes no sense and tons of these threads get bogged down with a million posts like this. Unless this guy loves every single game ever made that has atleast one fan then he to cannot appreciate a well done game, ever. You say no game suits everyone but then go on to say he can't appreciate a well done game...maybe it just does not suit him?
How about we see some more constructive criticisms of the game (in the topics that are obviously meant for that, and not this post in particular but all the ones meant to give an opinion about the game) and less extreme defensiveness or aggressiveness. I have to say the defensive ones are the most vocal on this particular forum however. If you have a real defense or critique of an OP how about you put it out in reasonable terms as opposed to all these topics turning into garbage piles of these useless posts that fill most of the thread. It really sucks when your trying to do some research on a game and reading the threads about particular aspects, good or bad, and end up having to wade through pages and pages of trash to garner any kind of real information.
A thoughtful post. The problem is that what matters in a game differs for so many people; and a game is much more than a checklist of features. (Or less, see VG for one of many examples.) I have become convinced that useful research is difficult. Some, perhaps most MMO's simply have to be tried. For example, EVE is a unique experience, very difficult to describe completely. But it does what it does very well indeed.
A consensus usually does eventually emerge, but even that is not trustworthy. Horizons was, by consensus, a terrible game, but many who did try it found it innovative and excellent. Before the last sale, 58% of the trial players subscribed. An incredible figure. (After many improvements of course.) WoW has a lot of detractors these days, but even more subscribers.
There do seem to be paid shills, both for and against, reminiscent of the Microsofties who smeared Word Perfect at every opportunity. Part of the reason too, is that there are often misstatements, deliberate or otherwise. Deliberate is assumed of course, especially when it seems clear that the detractor has never set paw into the game. That of course offends one's sense of fairness, etc. etc.
I could give you a list of reasons why LotRO is great, and what its major flaw is; but the flaw is the economy which is in the process of being balanced, and which will be different Real Soon Now. Useful info? Not really, since it's going to change. (Three patches already, and counting. )
But the biggest problem is the subjective quality of any review. What's important to me, may not matter at all to you... I don't do PvP, so my opinion of LotRO's Monster/Player unique feature won't mean much to a PvP'er.
In LotRO's case, I found the site to be accurately descriptive. In VG's case, ummm less so. I understand from a beta tester that Chronicles of Spellborn lives up to and past its description.
I agree dand3 I should have made it clearer when I would say "real" information. What I should have said was well thought out opinions. I have things I like and dislike and I can spot the probable presence of those things through others opinions of those that have played the game, most of the time.
If I catch to many red flags I usually do not carry over to the "trying" stage right away. But it ends up being very hard to do that on these forums since most opinions end up chopped, diced and spit out regardless of which direction they lean. I tend to read reviews that are critical however since my mind works off the assumption that I will love a game and then work down from there as I see what appears to be present in the game. Rave reviews tend to leave a bad taste in my mouth as they tend to have to much sunshine and rainbows going on and we all really know nothing is perfect. Critical opinions tend to range from realistic to outrageous and are easier to discern which are genuine and which are trolling.
Comments
Here is an example of a bit non-linear.
I played a healer in WoW.
I teamed with a random warrior.
Everytime I heal the warrior, I died.
Because that p*** of s*** warrior cant hold agro.
He didnt put skill in taunt.
It would suxs if I am afraid to join a random group and have stick to my guild always.
I am glad all warrior in LoTRO have taunt.
LotRO Is without hesitation the biggest letdown ive ever had in MMO's.
This is a game that plays it safe at every turn and therefore creates none of the feeling we get reading the books.
Had JRR Tolkien wrote his books like this game was made he would have written a disney story!!
The battles are boring, you spend all the time fighitng clicking buttons that feel to use very non descript powers so you rarely if ever look at the action. When you do look at the action your looking at nothing realistic in feel. the huge glowy cirscle around your prey makes sure of that.
Any serious game on this subject that calls itself an MMO will have player controlled orcs and goblins and trolls to name a few in it. that isnt negotiable. the idea of creating a game that makes you feel like your taking part in the story we already know was so obsurd that it makes the mind wobble. A game like this should feel new and fresh, and even in its pVe it fails miserably.
IT should have taken place before or even after the trilogy. And when you judge it on its merits for what it tried to accomplish it still fails.
In every moment I played it I never felt that it put me in the thick of heartpounding drama. it felt like a bad safe WoW without the PvP which was the best part of WoW....
I love Lord of the Rings and now I am sad at the prospect of waiting many many many years to have a crack at this done right.
who me ?
I think LOTRO has good and bad.
Good >
Performance / Functionality. I think I've crashed a total of once, ever. I can run this game on a 3 year old laptop on the highest settings with zero lag even in a crowded town. All of the quests I've tried to do function. I don't crash or get glitched or randomly portalled across the world when I zone. Things work as intended.
Graphics. For the system requirements needed to run this game, the graphics are amazing. Sure, Vanguard at the highest settings looks nicer, but then...who can really play Vanguard at the highest settings? 99% of people can't. The avatars are very reminiscent of WoW, but at least you have a bit more customization than 'choosing a face and haircut'. Granted, it isn't much.
Immersion. Its a world that is very easy to get into. You don't feel like you're having your hand held, no glowing path to your quest waypoint, no big target on the map, you actually have to look around, read your quest info, etc. The quests, while of the typical go-here-get-that-kill-this nature, at least have a bit of storyline with them or relate back to the LOTR trilogy in some way, rather than being completely mindless. Example, in the newbie elf area, there are two brothers - one who is ready to board the white ships and one who wants to stay in middle earth, and you do various tasks for each of them as they try to 'convince' each other to go or stay, tasks that cause each NPC to reminisce on their times of joy and hardship in Middle Earth. Which if we compare to other games, the kind that involve "Go get me 10 boar hooves." without tellig you why, well, its a notch up at the very least. Also, deeds in each area make grinding nonexistent, or at least less painful. You have other objectives in each area which you get a permanent stat trait reward for rather than a handful of coins and a crappy sword. These traits can be equipped on your character and allow some bit of customization as everyone choooses not only what traits to go complete, but which to equip.
Community. Sad to say it, but most games that have PvP attract a large number of unsavory people. Being mostly free of PvP, we don't have the pvp kiddie crowd in Lotro, we don't have ganking, we don't have E-Peens, etc. or at least, not to the extent you do in games where PvP is present. The PvMP system is pretty interesting though, and for people who enjoy pvp for its own sake rather than to lord it over their fellow players, get satisfaction from picking on people, etc. it really should be adequate as the monster characters all have their own unique skills, traits, and growth.
The Bad >
Stat growth is static, based on your class.
Skills are learned at certain lvls, based on your class.
Equipment is dependent on your level and class.
The above three things are very restricting. However, quite honestly, this is the direction almost all MMOs have taken. Gone are the old school days of your character's skills being a measuring point for equipment or skill learning. Now the "level" number has become more and more important, whereas in older games like AC1 or AO, level was just a number that meant very little because stats or skills, which could be tweaked and customized and minmaxed, allowed rigorous customization. Even Vanguard let you distribute your stats, although it did some of them for you, and you didn't get total control over it, particularly if you were a non-human race. But still, all in all, it was something. LOTRO gives you nothing other than your choice of traits and equipment.
So its another game where I could log off my minstrel, and log on someone else's minstrel and not really notice much of a difference, particularly if we stripped both characters naked and unequipped their traits, they'd be twins. Boring.
The Economy. As it stands, the economy is horrid, at least on my server (Meneldor).
People are selling level 12-15 weapons for 800 silver to a gold, and people are paying these prices. I know that this was largely due to an early exploit that has since been fixed, but prices haven't come down. 200-300s for a stack of 50 ore, et cetera. I can go hunt lvl 16-18 mobs for a few hours solo and assuming I don't die (which is always possible) I might make 50s profit after repairs. Maybe. So, I did what others did and took up the farming profession, where you can crank out a gold in 8 mind numbing hours of tilling the fields. But this is what I had to do to be able to afford my REPAIRS. Because at this stage, if I'm grouped and only getting half the loot? (Or 1/6th of the loot in a full team?) It actually costs me money to go adventuring. Add that to the ridiculous prices people want for most drops and you have an economy problem. Of course, this is easily fixed by bringing repair costs down to reasonable levels so that adventuring actually yielded a bit of profit, and hopefully it is in the works. The farming nerf goes live today so that will no longer be an option.
Repetition. Yes, if you make another character of the same race, you're confronted by the same area and the same quests. I have three characters at 15, two humans and and elf, and I must admit my second human was very tedious doing all the same runaround for a second time. However, the game DOES give you a bit of freedom, you aren't locked into the area as you are in some games. You are free to travel. If you want to do the dwarf questline as a human well, a couple silver will get you there. Though the deeds in every area are worth doing, and deed grinding on a second character is something I don't even want to think about at the moment.
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So all in all, it has its ups and downs. I wouldnt call this game awful or a let down or a waste of money, in fact, I think its alright. Turbine has shown that they are at least somewhat committed to authenticity - and while DDO was not as successful as it could have been, they DID stay true to the rules of D&D rather than inventing a bunch of fluff. Its the same with LOTRO. They are staying true to the story and the world that the story is told in rather than adding fluff. But that story also has limitations, and you can't have authenticity without a bit of sacrifice. No, I don't think this is the "next big thing", but it will definitely do for now.
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
Skills can be upgraded , as well as unlocking trait skills. Example the Minstrel has a Headbutt move which can only be unlocked with the Deeds. The Deeds system is a huge part of the skill sets. People just play like only a few levels and just aren't even scratching the surface of the skills and Deed system.
I've never played a game where you didn't have to do the same quest at the starting areas. If you know of a game of the fantasy genre
please post it.
who me ?
Many people had interesting points but I've been surprised with how much fun LotRO is, and I never expected to play it until I tried the World Tour.
IT's linear, sure but what MMO are people talking about that isn't repetitive, or doesn't lack variety. Since SWG failed/was killed off, only VAnguard has tried the "sandbox" approach, with no instances, etc but when Ramz in a previous post complains of the "glowing circle" around targets, umm WTH? Every mmo has glowy targeting system, and btw- MMO's are usually (90%) about hitting specials and skills in some form of turn-based/spam-special system.
Yeah it would be nice if MMO's took massive leaps suddenly, innovating gameplay radically and ramping up the drama but... complaining that Lotro didn't radically change the MMO genre is like saying a book is boring because you have to read page 1 before page 2, AGAIN! As if every book hasn't always been read this way- BORING!
If you don't like Lotro I think it just comes down to personal preference.
Before Vanguard came out, I was convinced "this is the game for me" - big world to explore, flying and sailing, great art direction, realistic travelling and caravans, etc
Then it came out and suddenly I found myself saying- "jebus i don't have time to walk around looking for quests aimlessly" and after a month of "2 hours isn't enough time to get anything done" I was just over it. Tried the Lotro and found myself saying, well I only have an hour but I might be able to get 1/2 a level, craft some junk and put it up in the AH or run around harvesting- which just works for me better. 4 years ago maybe Vanguard would've been the game for me, but I don't live inside MMO's anymore. I just visit them everyday.
Get a clue ... when people refer to linear games they mean there is only ONE route through it.
WoW was fairly linear, if you wanted to get the best gear you had to get to max level and raid.
EVE on the other hand isnt, if you want to be good in PvP you can pick a variety of options, battleships, command ships, recon, capital etc and the PvP operates on different levels and scales, from frigate skirmishes to full scale fleet battles. You can also play a major role in the game as a manufacturer, trader or miner amongst many other options. Saying EVE is linear because you can only fly ships in space is like saying life is linear because you can only drive cars on roads, there is so much more to both.
Fact of the matter is most people prefer linear MMOs, as they arent required to think for themselves or act on their own initiative. They play them simply to relax and take their minds off of real life, this is why simplistic spoonfed MMOs like WoW are more popular than those that force you to carve your own path.
QFT..........
This pretty much describes the MMO genre in its current state.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
You may say that you know what linear means but apparently you do not. But since you insist I can bring up the definition of linear from a dictionary:
- having the form of a line; straight.
- (Mathematics) of a class of polynomial of the form y = a.x + b.
- (Mathematics) an approximation to first order.
- (Physics) a type of length measurement involving only one spatial dimension (as contrasted with a higher-dimensional measurement such as area or volume.
The interesting parts here are point 1 and 4. Having the form of a line means that to get from point a to point b there is only one way, and that is the straight line. So if you want to level from lvl 1-XX and there is only one or a few ways of doing so then the game is linear. Same with skills, if you can only get skill A at level X then skill B at level Y then again it is linear because there is no way to deviate from the "line"."Being in a spaceship" is not enough to be linear as that is not in itself a progression so there is no point A to B. However getting skills is a progression and in Eve you can pick skills fairly freely. There are prerequisites but the skill tree is massive, it is more like a forest so at any time you can pick up to 30+ different skills to train and you can do that in any combination you like, clearly not linear as of the definitions above. Furthermore, playing Eve is not a bit linear as you have many options to pursue. You dont need to follow any strict storyline path (again point A to B in a straight line) but you can mine, be a pirate, trade, smuggle, scam and so on while progressing your character.
As for being "fun" that is another question entirely as that is subjective. However something being linear is not subjective and LOTR is very linear and no if or maybes about it. It is not strictly linear but no games are however it has strong tendencies toward being a linear game.
My gaming blog
I like pie !
I'm a fan of LotrO, the game that will be a lot of peoples home, a place of warmth , charity and good will, a place of virtues and honor. A place for real Heroes of gaming.
You can have you spaceship of nothing, I will have my ale , a smoke of the finest pipe weed and maybe par take in a little jam session. Let em know when you can play a Lute with your spaceship and I may come check eve out again .
who me ?
Why do people find it necessary to misuse well defined words in order to make their point seem more intelligent?
Linear has a VERY specific meaning in gaming. LINEAR means that the gameplay follows a SPECIFIC predefined path from which you cannot deviate. A STORY driven RPG where the story elements "unlock" as you complete specific predetermined tasks and all lead to ONE ending, is linear. A game like Oblivon, or ALL MMOs by their basic fundamental design, are NON LINEAR. They are non linear because you dont have to *do* anything. You can just run around like an idiot from one end of the world to the other with very few exceptions. There is NO cohesive "story" because the game is not designed to end. Even in single player Oblivion, the "main quest" isnt really mandatory and you can play 100s of hours ignoring it.
In a linear RPG, if you dont move the ball forward, you stay in the first 10 minutes of content with NPCs repeating the same things forever. Linear or non-linear in game design has nothing to do with walking in a line vs flying in space or leveling vs assigning skills. Just because the WORD linear can be applied to one of those actions doesnt and cant change the fact that within the CONTEXT of game design, it has SPECIFIC meaning.
Among game designers and developers these terms are not ambiguous. Terms arent just freely exchangeable because someone feels the definition kind of sort of maybe could fit something else. This is just like the debate over the term "sandbox". Just choose a different (non well defined) term if you need one. Context means alot when you're talking within a specific discipline.
The Epic Story Is linear, But you don't have to do that story line to advance your character. You can Do other quests and grind.
The thing a lot people are missing , it is the Story of Lord of The Rings, and instead of reading it , or watching the movie, you get play inside of the World . You can just Walk around if you want and smoke pip weed, you could be a hunter in the woods trapping and killing wild life. It is pretty awesome , once you let yourself open to it's nature and lore .
I've haven't be this happy to log into a game in a long time, and there is absolutely nothing anyone can say that would change that feeling. I hope you all find a game that gives you that kind of joy someday .
I like pie !
No. Actually I'm f**ing bored to death with the same old tired, unispired commentary on LOTRO. I have on numerous occasions refuted these arguments. I could not stand one more spleen gushing, so I wanted to make this thread less boring to me.
Oh and here's a nice summary of the OPs history:
Declining Playerbase
LOTRO Very disappointed so far
Seems the OP has a vendetta. Sad that he can't let it go.
Come one guys it is so obvious, the OP is Brad making some viral reverse marketing :-)
No. Actually I'm f**ing bored to death with the same old tired, unispired commentary on LOTRO. I have on numerous occasions refuted these arguments. I could not stand one more spleen gushing, so I wanted to make this thread less boring to me.
Oh and here's a nice summary of the OPs history:
Declining Playerbase
LOTRO Very disappointed so far
Seems the OP has a vendetta. Sad that he can't let it go.
Come one guys it is so obvious, the OP is Brad making some viral reverse marketing :-)
It does have the "party line" quality of an inept viral marketing secret agent person.
Hokay, /sarcasmon
It is entirely true that LotRO is both linear and a WoW clone; conclusive proof follows!
It is a well known fact, is it not, that in LotRO, you MUST achieve level 2 before even beginning to be allowed to barely begin to reach level 3! An intolerable strait jacket!! And anyone can see that WoW uses the very same system??? Clone???? You decide!!!!!
/sarcasmoff
WoW borrowed a lot of its UI from Horizons, which had a very advanced (for its day) UI, and which worked very well. And Hz, even though it had many innovations, built on the best of previous efforts. (EQ not among them. I hated the EQ interface. ) And of course many, many other MMO conventions are shared between them, and with many other games as well. But a game is (or better be!) much more than its list of mechanics and features.
For me, the key question is "Does playing one game feel like the other?" I don't find that playing LotRO feels like playing WoW. Both games' mechanics are polished enough, and the UI is transparent enough that those qualities are pretty well transparent, leaving you with the essence of the games. At that level, reduced to the reason we buy a game, I find the two to be quite different.
The quest instancing and epic story line are major differentiators, let along the Canon.
this caught my eye a few pages back.
" Hey, no game suits everyone. Unfortunately you cannot appreciate a well done game. I suggest trying the free grind to death Korean MMO's out there, they seem more suited to your style."
That statement makes no sense and tons of these threads get bogged down with a million posts like this. Unless this guy loves every single game ever made that has atleast one fan then he to cannot appreciate a well done game, ever. You say no game suits everyone but then go on to say he can't appreciate a well done game...maybe it just does not suit him?
How about we see some more constructive criticisms of the game (in the topics that are obviously meant for that, and not this post in particular but all the ones meant to give an opinion about the game) and less extreme defensiveness or aggressiveness. I have to say the defensive ones are the most vocal on this particular forum however. If you have a real defense or critique of an OP how about you put it out in reasonable terms as opposed to all these topics turning into garbage piles of these useless posts that fill most of the thread. It really sucks when your trying to do some research on a game and reading the threads about particular aspects, good or bad, and end up having to wade through pages and pages of trash to garner any kind of real information.
A thoughtful post. The problem is that what matters in a game differs for so many people; and a game is much more than a checklist of features. (Or less, see VG for one of many examples.) I have become convinced that useful research is difficult. Some, perhaps most MMO's simply have to be tried. For example, EVE is a unique experience, very difficult to describe completely. But it does what it does very well indeed.
A consensus usually does eventually emerge, but even that is not trustworthy. Horizons was, by consensus, a terrible game, but many who did try it found it innovative and excellent. Before the last sale, 58% of the trial players subscribed. An incredible figure. (After many improvements of course.) WoW has a lot of detractors these days, but even more subscribers.
There do seem to be paid shills, both for and against, reminiscent of the Microsofties who smeared Word Perfect at every opportunity. Part of the reason too, is that there are often misstatements, deliberate or otherwise. Deliberate is assumed of course, especially when it seems clear that the detractor has never set paw into the game. That of course offends one's sense of fairness, etc. etc.
I could give you a list of reasons why LotRO is great, and what its major flaw is; but the flaw is the economy which is in the process of being balanced, and which will be different Real Soon Now. Useful info? Not really, since it's going to change. (Three patches already, and counting. )
But the biggest problem is the subjective quality of any review. What's important to me, may not matter at all to you... I don't do PvP, so my opinion of LotRO's Monster/Player unique feature won't mean much to a PvP'er.
In LotRO's case, I found the site to be accurately descriptive. In VG's case, ummm less so. I understand from a beta tester that Chronicles of Spellborn lives up to and past its description.
So you gotta try 'em all.
If I catch to many red flags I usually do not carry over to the "trying" stage right away. But it ends up being very hard to do that on these forums since most opinions end up chopped, diced and spit out regardless of which direction they lean. I tend to read reviews that are critical however since my mind works off the assumption that I will love a game and then work down from there as I see what appears to be present in the game. Rave reviews tend to leave a bad taste in my mouth as they tend to have to much sunshine and rainbows going on and we all really know nothing is perfect. Critical opinions tend to range from realistic to outrageous and are easier to discern which are genuine and which are trolling.