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Did you know that they are building a Berlin Wall through Baghdad?
smit90
Member Posts: 17
They really are. It's crazy, I know, but look it up. Look at a map. It's the Berlin Wall. 3 miles through Baghdad to seperate Sunnis and Shiites. Hmm... that sounds kinda fimiliar. I faintly remember a wall being torn down 20 years ago that seperated the Communists and Democratic sections of a city... hmm.
Why is it OK for the Bush Administration to build such a wall to seperate two religions, where it was not ok to build a concrete wall 20 years ago to seperate two political beliefs. You're right, it is different. Back then, it also seperated the poor communists from the wealthy democrats. In Baghdad, it'll seperate the poor Sunnis from the poor Shiites. That is STILL segregation! Someone please attempt to explain to me why it is ok for the US president to make these decisions? His decision is way too similar to the decision to build a wall made by the Communist USSR Leader.
Why do Americans ( I am one) stand by and take this CRAP!? Honestly. He and his lackeys choose where to attack like playing darts blind. They just go for it and hope they don't kill too many people. Think about it. Who has to build this wall? Iraqis won't! That means American troops have to go on the border between two fueding religious groups and build a concrete wall. There are going to be bombs going off EVERYWHERE! Troop after troop will fall. We are handing them lives. Why don't we stop this madness! Our hard earned tax dollars are going towards this crap.
Want more proof that the Bush Administration has ruined the US' reputation?
For years, the Bush Administration has been "redefining" laws they viewed as incorrect. These were all laws that helped to ensure the freedom of people around the world. One of the biggest was Habeas Corpus.
Habeas Corpus allows for inmates to persue freedom from unlawful treatment while inprisoned or freedom from unlawful inprisonment. Guess what? The Bush administration "redefined" that, argueing that Habeas Corpus doesn't say you can't take it away from non-citizens, so therefore you can. This ended up making the incidences with unlawful treatment to POWs (in Iraq and US prisons on international locations) completely lawful, although revolting. Want proof that the Bush Administration argued this point? Here's a recording from the Meeting of the Senate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIFqYVAOosM
Hmm... taking away natural rights from prisoners. Sounds kind of like Hitler and his Concentration Camps, doesn't it? You know what else? Bush Administration has leaked that they are going to try and stay in office even longer than the lawful 8 years. They argue that they were not truely elected into office in 2000 because Congress allowed him in after numerous recounts and him actually LOSING according to the tally. Therefore, he'd be allowed to run another 4 years. He can also try to say that the law of only 8 years doesn't apply during times of extreme national emergency. This would allow him to continue being president until the war in just about over.
Know who else was leader until a war was almost over and created camps for specific individuals, from whom he stripped rights? Hitler.
I'm not saying Bush is Hitler, but he sure as heck as done many things that Americans should disapprove of.
I'm sorry if anything in this post has offended anyone. I am simply stating what has been bugging me. Feel free to discuss or think about what I have said. I have not lied or stretched the truth in any part of this post. I have stated only fact and presented it in a way to show what I think of Bush and his administration. Please don't report me for stating opinion.
Thank you for reading.
Why is it OK for the Bush Administration to build such a wall to seperate two religions, where it was not ok to build a concrete wall 20 years ago to seperate two political beliefs. You're right, it is different. Back then, it also seperated the poor communists from the wealthy democrats. In Baghdad, it'll seperate the poor Sunnis from the poor Shiites. That is STILL segregation! Someone please attempt to explain to me why it is ok for the US president to make these decisions? His decision is way too similar to the decision to build a wall made by the Communist USSR Leader.
Why do Americans ( I am one) stand by and take this CRAP!? Honestly. He and his lackeys choose where to attack like playing darts blind. They just go for it and hope they don't kill too many people. Think about it. Who has to build this wall? Iraqis won't! That means American troops have to go on the border between two fueding religious groups and build a concrete wall. There are going to be bombs going off EVERYWHERE! Troop after troop will fall. We are handing them lives. Why don't we stop this madness! Our hard earned tax dollars are going towards this crap.
Want more proof that the Bush Administration has ruined the US' reputation?
For years, the Bush Administration has been "redefining" laws they viewed as incorrect. These were all laws that helped to ensure the freedom of people around the world. One of the biggest was Habeas Corpus.
Habeas Corpus allows for inmates to persue freedom from unlawful treatment while inprisoned or freedom from unlawful inprisonment. Guess what? The Bush administration "redefined" that, argueing that Habeas Corpus doesn't say you can't take it away from non-citizens, so therefore you can. This ended up making the incidences with unlawful treatment to POWs (in Iraq and US prisons on international locations) completely lawful, although revolting. Want proof that the Bush Administration argued this point? Here's a recording from the Meeting of the Senate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIFqYVAOosM
Hmm... taking away natural rights from prisoners. Sounds kind of like Hitler and his Concentration Camps, doesn't it? You know what else? Bush Administration has leaked that they are going to try and stay in office even longer than the lawful 8 years. They argue that they were not truely elected into office in 2000 because Congress allowed him in after numerous recounts and him actually LOSING according to the tally. Therefore, he'd be allowed to run another 4 years. He can also try to say that the law of only 8 years doesn't apply during times of extreme national emergency. This would allow him to continue being president until the war in just about over.
Know who else was leader until a war was almost over and created camps for specific individuals, from whom he stripped rights? Hitler.
I'm not saying Bush is Hitler, but he sure as heck as done many things that Americans should disapprove of.
I'm sorry if anything in this post has offended anyone. I am simply stating what has been bugging me. Feel free to discuss or think about what I have said. I have not lied or stretched the truth in any part of this post. I have stated only fact and presented it in a way to show what I think of Bush and his administration. Please don't report me for stating opinion.
Thank you for reading.
Comments
Can you provide me links of this wall?
My brother is in Baghdad right not and he's not aware of a huge wall. He said if it was like Berlin it would be hard to miss. I googled it as well as Google earth it. I didn't find anything about this.
Link please. OR, better, links
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Information on the lack of awareness within the troops and the surronding neighborhoods (its just barely begun):
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-04-21-baghdad_N.htm
That article above talks about the cement barriers currently put up and calls the new wall that is to be built the "Azamiyah project". Try searching that.'
This story mentions how local councils are unwilling to sign onto the project unless they here that the Iraqis want it:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/21/iraq.wall.ap/
"Community leaders said Saturday that construction began before they had approved an American proposal for the wall.
'A few days ago, we met with the U.S. army unit in charge of Adhamiya and it asked us, as a local council, to sign a document to build a wall to reduce killing and attacks against Iraqi and U.S. forces,' said Dawood al-Azami, the acting head of the Adhamiya council.
'I told the soldiers that I would not sign it unless I could talk to residents first. We told residents at Friday prayers, but our local council hasn't signed onto the project yet, and construction is already under way.'"
Here is a map of the wall:
Obviously, there is not nearly a perfect dividing line, thus bringing into question whether it will REALLY be effective.
Hopefully that information will help you on your search for knowledge. My prayers are with your brother and I hope he as well as his comrades return home safely and swftly.
The Baghdad wall is just another move that will placate the American sheeple...string'em along for a few more months; as soon as the US attacks Iran Iraq will be all but forgotten!
Remember that Cheney (the shadow president and the real power in the White house) is postponing the draft as long as he can...because once the draft ramps up the American sheeple are going to be very upset, especially the young ones!
Walls are popular now. There is a wall between the Israeli's and Palestinians, partially between the US and Mexico, so why not also between sections of Baghdad? And what do all these walls have in common....why of course.....they are paid for by the American taxpayer.
Now all we need is President Putin to visit Baghdad and say, "Mr Bush, tear this wall down", in his best JFK style speech.
Things are more like they are today, then they've ever been before. We just get to make the other sides mistakes this time through. Why study history when you can live it today?
Perhaps, we could help to fix what we broke. Perhaps, we could do justice instead of revenge (Yes, Iraq is because of Bush's dad and oil). Or maybe, we could simply do as the presidents former suggested:
"Let us resolve to be masters, not the victims, of our history, controlling our own destiny without giving way to blind suspicions and emotions." - John F. Kennedy
" Efforts and courage are not enough without purpose and direction." -John F. Kennedy
" Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong." -Calvin Coolidge
"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it." - George W. Bush
Smit90
That's a river
....not a wall.....
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
What they are doing is building a wall enclosing a Sunni dominated neighborhood that is surrounded by Shiite dominated neighborhoods.
At least that's what I understood of the story.
I also seem to get the impression that the Sunnis themselves do not like this idea.
EDIT: And yeah, that's the Tigris River.
----------
Life sucks, buy a helmet.
oh ok
I thought he was showing us a black and white picture of the Tigris and then saying it was a huge wall. I mean...did you thought he was saying that too or am I just loosing my mind?
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
My apologies about the misleading map, but that same line was drawn on the 2D map this morning and the military advisors for NBC were reporting that line as where the wall was going to be. perhaps it was simply the part of the line they were pointing at was where the wall would be. However, the articles still back up my point about the wall dividing the city. It will be 3 miles long and 12 feet tall at critical points. The Berlin Wall was 103 miles long so that it could cover a MIUCH larger amount of land, but was still only 12 feet high.
And the issue is over the reasoning behind the wall. The very citizens of Baghdad have yet to approve of this wall, yet troops and the government of the US continue to build it. That's called going against the will of the people we are there to "free", and personally I don't like it.
oh ok
I thought he was showing us a black and white picture of the Tigris and then saying it was a huge wall. I mean...did you thought he was saying that too or am I just loosing my mind?
The map is right. That's a picture of the Azamiyah neighborhood. The OP is simply misinterpretting the article (and calling the Tigris a wall
No Berlin Walls here.
EDIT:
It won't be dividing the city. It will be closing off an area that has been the target of a lot of shiite aggression.
The only scandal is that the neighborhood's council leaders haven't approved or voted on it and feel like it is being imposed on them.
----------
Life sucks, buy a helmet.
No Berlin Walls here. It won't be dividing the city. It will be closing off an area that has been the target of a lot of shiite aggression.
The only scandal is that the neighborhood's council leaders haven't approved or voted on it and feel like it is being imposed on them.
ok lol. I thought so.
Yeah.. I would be closing off that area too....but I wouldnt go as far as saying Bush is throwing up Berlin walls to seperate a city. That's how these Nancy Pelosi rumours get started
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
2.I dont think bush thinks this stuff up doesnt he have an adviser? wouldent he just say yes or no to the advisers ideas?
I only have 2 points =D
but i believe the wall part.. so what are they gonna kick reds up north and blues down south?
I would like to say, all those quotes , were not made by the president(of course i wouldent know) They all have people doing this stuff for them they just say yes or no.(agian im just saying something that looks very obvious to me but i really wouldent know)
Idk why please give me a good reason if im wrong. But could you imagine what would happen if they left the terrorist attacks alone? and we got attacked agian? everyone would hate bush, so no matter what he did bush is hated, (of course they could have taken the chance of risking thousands of lives agian but He had to do something , can you explain what you would have done?
To the OP:
The point of the Berlin wall was to keep people from fleeing to freedom from East Berlin to West Berlin.
The point of the Baghdad wall was to keep people from KILLING EACH OTHER!
See the difference? A wall isnt inherently evil.
I hate Bush as much as the next guy, but no offense dude you are pulling a "Well, if Bush did it... it must be bad!" Following that logic, you should stop breathing because Bush breathes. The violence in Iraq is horrible and anything that can be done to stop that violence should be done. Building a wall probably isnt going to be effective, but maybe it will help a little.
Also, while they build the wall there is just going to be an increase in American casualties! The US troops are currently building it under the cover of night in fear of being shot down. However, before they begin every night, they have to do bomb searches, in casae an Iraqi resistant left a present there for troops (all of this was shown in video footage on NBC yesterday). What if one day they miss one bomb? BOOM. There goes multiple US soliders, who were building something they didn't have to.
That's my main resistance against the wall at this point. It's forced. They don't want it. We're building it. We're losing more money. We will lose lives for no reason. And it'll only contain, not calm, a small portion of all the sectarian violence.
Tin Foil hats dont work.. its all a conspiracy
Get rid of that Martin Luther King Jr. quote out of here big guy.
And Smit90, if the only reason you oppose this wall is because its not wanted, well... thats a tad ridiculous. If we did what a good portion of Sunni's wanted, we'd have to kill all the Shiites. If we did what all the Shiites wanted, we'd have to kill all the Sunnis. If we did what they all wanted, we'd have to kill ourselves. Alot of them are just opposed to it because they want to be able to kill the other group.
Quite frankly in any case where there is ethnic war going on, you have to do something that both sides dont want. Seperating them is really a good thing. When two people get into a fight, you seperate them. You dont stand there and go "Hey! Hey you guys! Stop fighting!" Thats how it is with the Sunnis and Shiites.
There's really no difference between our soldiers building this wall and them night building this wall. They are in just as much danger as when they are engaged in normal activities. If this wall does something to alleviate the tension, maybe it will actually save some lives in the long run.
The only position you can really maintain is that we shouldnt be building that wall because we shouldnt be there. But given that we are there until at least 2008, we need to make the best of it.
Also, while they build the wall there is just going to be an increase in American casualties! The US troops are currently building it under the cover of night in fear of being shot down. However, before they begin every night, they have to do bomb searches, in casae an Iraqi resistant left a present there for troops (all of this was shown in video footage on NBC yesterday). What if one day they miss one bomb? BOOM. There goes multiple US soliders, who were building something they didn't have to.
That's my main resistance against the wall at this point. It's forced. They don't want it. We're building it. We're losing more money. We will lose lives for no reason. And it'll only contain, not calm, a small portion of all the sectarian violence.
Albino freak makes a good point. Two completely different walls, serving two completely different purposes.
Im sure this "wall" is wanted by a large portion of the citizens of Bagdad. I dont know about you, but if a wall could help stop the violence around my home and my family -- I would want it there.
Get rid of that Martin Luther King Jr. quote out of here big guy.
And Smit90, if the only reason you oppose this wall is because its not wanted, well... thats a tad ridiculous. If we did what a good portion of Sunni's wanted, we'd have to kill all the Shiites. If we did what all the Shiites wanted, we'd have to kill all the Sunnis. If we did what they all wanted, we'd have to kill ourselves. Alot of them are just opposed to it because they want to be able to kill the other group.
Quite frankly in any case where there is ethnic war going on, you have to do something that both sides dont want. Seperating them is really a good thing. When two people get into a fight, you seperate them. You dont stand there and go "Hey! Hey you guys! Stop fighting!" Thats how it is with the Sunnis and Shiites.
There's really no difference between our soldiers building this wall and them night building this wall. They are in just as much danger as when they are engaged in normal activities. If this wall does something to alleviate the tension, maybe it will actually save some lives in the long run.
The only position you can really maintain is that we shouldnt be building that wall because we shouldnt be there. But given that we are there until at least 2008, we need to make the best of it.
you said it much better than me
Im Fawd, and I support this message.
Hey smit90... You should probably do a little more research before making posts like this. There was a page here which made statements which resemble your claim, but it says down bottom:
In addition to this, the NY Times article was a hoax as well because the site, while looking like the New York Times, was actually NewYourkeTimes (Notice the additional 'u' and 'e') and was a hoax as well. It used to be posted HERE however, you can read the letter from the NY Times Lawyers HERE to see why it was removed.
As an American, one thing I disapprove of is people trying to rally communities for a cause under false pretenses. I'm not saying I agree with everything Bush does, but if you're going to point out flaws in his administration, use real ones. Posting things like this just hurts your cause.