VG is not all rubbish, but you need to understand, that MS publishes games as a marketing tactic for windows, you need to think of the big picture. Quality products published by Microsoft that run exclusively on windows, and run best on Vista are the main driving force among gamers ... and let's face it, there are a lot of gamers among the PC users. Microsoft didn't want just any mediocre money maker like VG was looking to shape, they needed quality, something which VG is definetly not!
VG will stay afloat just like MxO, and be as decent as DDO, ofcourse Turbine never made any claims about how great DDO will be, whilst Brad promised nothing short of the heavens with VG, and look at his faulty vision fall apart. VG will make money, no doubt, but the rejection by MS means only one thing : this game is not quality.
Apparently Brad doesn't read these forums to see what gamers think of his prized game.
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.Wooooo let's get out the tinfoil hats! I bet you take "Loose Change" as gospel too.
Considering PvP was added AFTER SoE got a hold of VG, I think saying it was made carebaer because of SoE is just plain ignorant.
I'm still PO'd they haven't put Fellowships in. This would solve so many friggin problems its not even funny. but instead they are shooting themselves in the foot by adding teleportation, and working on useless shit like helmets showing up.
He is indeed a one hit wonder.
And to be clear, I have yet to see ONE thing that denote this game as 3rd generation. The only thing I can think of is graphics, and they have already voiced regrets about the programming resources they have used for the game that limits the flexibility of the graphics.
Apparently Brad doesn't read these forums to see what gamers think of his prized game.
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.Wooooo let's get out the tinfoil hats! I bet you take "Loose Change" as gospel too.
"That said, there is a subset of posts by players (and likely non-players) that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative. My hope would be that the moderators of these boards would identify and deal with this small group, especially on afiliated sites."
Apparently Brad doesn't read these forums to see what gamers think of his prized game.
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.Wooooo let's get out the tinfoil hats! I bet you take "Loose Change" as gospel too.
"That said, there is a subset of posts by players (and likely non-players) that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative. My hope would be that the moderators of these boards would identify and deal with this small group, especially on afiliated sites."
Any other smart comments about my tinfoil hat?So you are saying players "that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative" shouldn't be dealt with? I guess your own self-preservation is making you say such things.
I think it's more of a clue to just how much he downplayed any outside competition ever supplanting EverQuest, or the genre ever evolving past him. I don't think it even occurred to him that a game like WoW would ever come along and change all of the rules.
Its an interesting insight into the divide that's come between MMORPG players recently, and what they expect from their games. Basically, the EQ crowd has grown up... they can't invent the same kinds of massive timechunks as they could when they were teens playing EQ, into Vanguard. And most of the players that grew up after EQ, are wanting other things from their MMOs, and Brad was blissfully ignorant of all this change while he was creating his 'vision'. Basically, the requirement of huge timesinks in order to do anything in a game, is not '3rdGen'.
It's pretty obvious Brad was in a bubble for years and was confident that his ideas were the 'right' ones, and that people would choose his over other games, even though almost every sign pointed to his design choices being out of date and out of touch with what the majority of MMORPGers wants nowadays.
Originally posted by Pietoro Originally posted by Lidane I think it's more of a clue to just how much he downplayed any outside competition ever supplanting EverQuest, or the genre ever evolving past him. I don't think it even occurred to him that a game like WoW would ever come along and change all of the rules.
Its an interesting insight into the divide that's come between MMORPG players recently, and what they expect from their games. Basically, the EQ crowd has grown up... they can't invent the same kinds of massive timechunks as they could when they were teens playing EQ, into Vanguard. And most of the players that grew up after EQ, are wanting other things from their MMOs, and Brad was blissfully ignorant of all this change while he was creating his 'vision'. Basically, the requirement of huge timesinks in order to do anything in a game, is not '3rdGen'.
It's pretty obvious Brad was in a bubble for years and was confident that his ideas were the 'right' ones, and that people would choose his over other games, even though almost every sign pointed to his design choices being out of date and out of touch with what the majority of MMORPGers wants nowadays.
This is a pretty good analysis of things, I think. But people always say things like that, but few people really actually mean them. They want to hype their games. Alas.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
This is a pretty good analysis of things, I think. But people always say things like that, but few people really actually mean them. They want to hype their games. Alas.
Thing is, there IS a playerbase for games like Vanguard. But they're a niche now, tbh.
Brad treated Vanguard as if it had the potential to become a mainstream blockbuster from the start, and that's what led to the game's downfall. If he had been aware of and realistic about the current MMORPG market, he could've probably made different choices (mostly in regards to costs) that could've helped the game actually end up profitable and successful.
All MMORPGs do NOT have to play like WoW to survive... diversity is good! But the devs have to be aware of what their game IS, and what's its actual playerbase will be, and to have realistic goals in mind. Vanguard is a prime example of devs being out of touch with the current market and making a lot of poor decisions (mostly in terms of money and use of development time).
Apparently Brad doesn't read these forums to see what gamers think of his prized game.
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.Wooooo let's get out the tinfoil hats! I bet you take "Loose Change" as gospel too.
"That said, there is a subset of posts by players (and likely non-players) that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative. My hope would be that the moderators of these boards would identify and deal with this small group, especially on afiliated sites."
Any other smart comments about my tinfoil hat?So you are saying players "that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative" shouldn't be dealt with? I guess your own self-preservation is making you say such things.
Who is the judge of what is constructive?
We start from free speech, that is a premise.
I want to make sure the mmo industry evolves, gets better in quality, and competition exists. For the dev community to learn, they must see that which is unaccepted by gamers (pure consumers). So by underlining what is at fault, they can correct and move forward.
Now if I for one consider the VG concept as a whole a fault, then there is nothing constructive I can add to making the game better, as I consider it beyond repair, BUT by being accurately negative about it, I am creating constructive criticism for devs in general, and games in the making ... a warning so to chose.
So many of you think my posts are negative just for being negative, but that is because you don't analyze my perspective from outside the box (the box being VG), from a higher perspective.
See, Brad is not the only one who can play with words, heck, he's completely average.
But the point is, he asked that the "no-men" be silenced, because it's bad for the marketing. Imagine, if he wrote that publicly, what he must have sent through private messages. And don't be silly and naive, he did send private messages to moderators.
As a conclusion : think out of the box, Brad's vision is but the prison, set yourself free, think beyond old notions, let EQ $ EQ1.5 (VG) die.
This is a pretty good analysis of things, I think. But people always say things like that, but few people really actually mean them. They want to hype their games. Alas.
Thing is, there IS a playerbase for games like Vanguard. But they're a niche now, tbh.
Brad treated Vanguard as if it had the potential to become a mainstream blockbuster from the start, and that's what led to the game's downfall. If he had been aware of and realistic about the current MMORPG market, he could've probably made different choices (mostly in regards to costs) that could've helped the game actually end up profitable and successful.
All MMORPGs do NOT have to play like WoW to survive... diversity is good! But the devs have to be aware of what their game IS, and what's its actual playerbase will be, and to have realistic goals in mind. Vanguard is a prime example of devs being out of touch with the current market and making a lot of poor decisions (mostly in terms of money and use of development time).
Absolutely agree with what you post about niche games being able to survive. However, I must insist that no niche game can survive with a 30+ mil dev budget. It just can't happen.
I've seen a ton of posts, here and elsewhere, that postulate how much a game makes and all of them are pie in the sky estimates no where near reality. You don't hav e to play like WOW ( whatever that means) but you sure as shit better keep your budget in line with reduced niche expectations.
This is a pretty good analysis of things, I think. But people always say things like that, but few people really actually mean them. They want to hype their games. Alas.
Thing is, there IS a playerbase for games like Vanguard. But they're a niche now, tbh.
Brad treated Vanguard as if it had the potential to become a mainstream blockbuster from the start, and that's what led to the game's downfall. If he had been aware of and realistic about the current MMORPG market, he could've probably made different choices (mostly in regards to costs) that could've helped the game actually end up profitable and successful.
All MMORPGs do NOT have to play like WoW to survive... diversity is good! But the devs have to be aware of what their game IS, and what's its actual playerbase will be, and to have realistic goals in mind. Vanguard is a prime example of devs being out of touch with the current market and making a lot of poor decisions (mostly in terms of money and use of development time).
Absolutely agree with what you post about niche games being able to survive. However, I must insist that no niche game can survive with a 30+ mil dev budget. It just can't happen.
I've seen a ton of posts, here and elsewhere, that postulate how much a game makes and all of them are pie in the sky estimates no where near reality. You don't hav e to play like WOW ( whatever that means) but you sure as shit better keep your budget in line with reduced niche expectations.
I think that's his point, though-- if Sigil and Brad McQuaid had been more aware of how the MMO market was changing around them, and if they'd been more realistic about how their design was no longer the norm, but a niche, then maybe they could have scaled back and taken a more streamlined approach. Maybe the game wouldn't have taken $30+ million to make, and it would be in a completely different position than it is now.
It's true that all games don't have to be World of Warcraft in order to survive. I think there's plenty of room for lots of different types of games in the MMO genre, including a harder, more old-school, early EQ1 type game. Problem is, they tried to bring a game like that to the mass market, when the mass market isn't interested in those kinds of timesinks anymore, as evidenced by Blizzard's success.
Perhaps if they'd acknowledged that the game was going to be a niche once they saw how Blizz was steamrolling everyone, they could have moved to develop and market this game with a smaller crowd in mind, including how they allocated their resources and spent their money. Maybe they wouldn't have had to jump to SOE at all if they'd been more savvy.
Apparently Brad doesn't read these forums to see what gamers think of his prized game.
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.Wooooo let's get out the tinfoil hats! I bet you take "Loose Change" as gospel too.
"That said, there is a subset of posts by players (and likely non-players) that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative. My hope would be that the moderators of these boards would identify and deal with this small group, especially on afiliated sites."
Any other smart comments about my tinfoil hat?So you are saying players "that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative" shouldn't be dealt with? I guess your own self-preservation is making you say such things.
Who decides what is or isn't constructive? I sure hope it isn't Brad McQuaid...
So you are saying players "that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative" shouldn't be dealt with? I guess your own self-preservation is making you say such things.
Who decides what is or isn't constructive? I sure hope it isn't Brad McQuaid...
I hope I didn't cut to much but anyway we all have rules to live with eachother by on this forums you can have this, for example.
Here goes.
Topic Hijacking
Posting comments within a thread which severely disrupts the original conversation is prohibited at MMORPG.com.
Example: Asking whether a game has PvP in a thread about crafting materials found in a new expansion is Topic Hijacking.
Flaming and Personal Attacks
o MMORPG.com does not tolerate personal attacks on other posters. Please keep your arguments and posts on topic, and argue the ideas and topics of the thread instead of insulting other users.
Example: Telling someone that you disagree with their argument is tolerated, while calling someone inappropriate names is not.
Game Attacks
Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons.
Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
Trolling
Posting excessive negative comments or baiting others to respond in a negative manner is considered trolling on the MMORPG.com forums.
For example: If there is one game that you did not enjoy, voicing your opinion is encouraged. Posting this opinion in every thread concerning that game to the point that it disrupts all other conversation is not tolerated.
So regardles of being constructive I do not think that your pal Brad pur up these rules.
Comments
VG will stay afloat just like MxO, and be as decent as DDO, ofcourse Turbine never made any claims about how great DDO will be, whilst Brad promised nothing short of the heavens with VG, and look at his faulty vision fall apart. VG will make money, no doubt, but the rejection by MS means only one thing : this game is not quality.
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.Wooooo let's get out the tinfoil hats! I bet you take "Loose Change" as gospel too.
I'm still PO'd they haven't put Fellowships in. This would solve so many friggin problems its not even funny. but instead they are shooting themselves in the foot by adding teleportation, and working on useless shit like helmets showing up.
He is indeed a one hit wonder.
And to be clear, I have yet to see ONE thing that denote this game as 3rd generation. The only thing I can think of is graphics, and they have already voiced regrets about the programming resources they have used for the game that limits the flexibility of the graphics.
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.Wooooo let's get out the tinfoil hats! I bet you take "Loose Change" as gospel too.
Here you go, straight from Brad's mouth: www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php
"That said, there is a subset of posts by players (and likely non-players) that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative. My hope would be that the moderators of these boards would identify and deal with this small group, especially on afiliated sites."
Any other smart comments about my tinfoil hat?
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.Wooooo let's get out the tinfoil hats! I bet you take "Loose Change" as gospel too.
Here you go, straight from Brad's mouth: www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php
"That said, there is a subset of posts by players (and likely non-players) that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative. My hope would be that the moderators of these boards would identify and deal with this small group, especially on afiliated sites."
Any other smart comments about my tinfoil hat?So you are saying players "that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative" shouldn't be dealt with? I guess your own self-preservation is making you say such things.
Interestingly, VirginWorlds' blog posted about just that same thing (a.k.a. 'Gamer's Age').
Its an interesting insight into the divide that's come between MMORPG players recently, and what they expect from their games. Basically, the EQ crowd has grown up... they can't invent the same kinds of massive timechunks as they could when they were teens playing EQ, into Vanguard. And most of the players that grew up after EQ, are wanting other things from their MMOs, and Brad was blissfully ignorant of all this change while he was creating his 'vision'. Basically, the requirement of huge timesinks in order to do anything in a game, is not '3rdGen'.
It's pretty obvious Brad was in a bubble for years and was confident that his ideas were the 'right' ones, and that people would choose his over other games, even though almost every sign pointed to his design choices being out of date and out of touch with what the majority of MMORPGers wants nowadays.
Interestingly, VirginWorlds' blog posted about just that same thing (a.k.a. 'Gamer's Age').
Its an interesting insight into the divide that's come between MMORPG players recently, and what they expect from their games. Basically, the EQ crowd has grown up... they can't invent the same kinds of massive timechunks as they could when they were teens playing EQ, into Vanguard. And most of the players that grew up after EQ, are wanting other things from their MMOs, and Brad was blissfully ignorant of all this change while he was creating his 'vision'. Basically, the requirement of huge timesinks in order to do anything in a game, is not '3rdGen'.
It's pretty obvious Brad was in a bubble for years and was confident that his ideas were the 'right' ones, and that people would choose his over other games, even though almost every sign pointed to his design choices being out of date and out of touch with what the majority of MMORPGers wants nowadays.
This is a pretty good analysis of things, I think. But people always say things like that, but few people really actually mean them. They want to hype their games. Alas.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Brad treated Vanguard as if it had the potential to become a mainstream blockbuster from the start, and that's what led to the game's downfall. If he had been aware of and realistic about the current MMORPG market, he could've probably made different choices (mostly in regards to costs) that could've helped the game actually end up profitable and successful.
All MMORPGs do NOT have to play like WoW to survive... diversity is good! But the devs have to be aware of what their game IS, and what's its actual playerbase will be, and to have realistic goals in mind. Vanguard is a prime example of devs being out of touch with the current market and making a lot of poor decisions (mostly in terms of money and use of development time).
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.Wooooo let's get out the tinfoil hats! I bet you take "Loose Change" as gospel too.
Here you go, straight from Brad's mouth: www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php
"That said, there is a subset of posts by players (and likely non-players) that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative. My hope would be that the moderators of these boards would identify and deal with this small group, especially on afiliated sites."
Any other smart comments about my tinfoil hat?So you are saying players "that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative" shouldn't be dealt with? I guess your own self-preservation is making you say such things.
Who is the judge of what is constructive?
We start from free speech, that is a premise.
I want to make sure the mmo industry evolves, gets better in quality, and competition exists. For the dev community to learn, they must see that which is unaccepted by gamers (pure consumers). So by underlining what is at fault, they can correct and move forward.
Now if I for one consider the VG concept as a whole a fault, then there is nothing constructive I can add to making the game better, as I consider it beyond repair, BUT by being accurately negative about it, I am creating constructive criticism for devs in general, and games in the making ... a warning so to chose.
So many of you think my posts are negative just for being negative, but that is because you don't analyze my perspective from outside the box (the box being VG), from a higher perspective.
See, Brad is not the only one who can play with words, heck, he's completely average.
But the point is, he asked that the "no-men" be silenced, because it's bad for the marketing. Imagine, if he wrote that publicly, what he must have sent through private messages. And don't be silly and naive, he did send private messages to moderators.
As a conclusion : think out of the box, Brad's vision is but the prison, set yourself free, think beyond old notions, let EQ $ EQ1.5 (VG) die.
Brad treated Vanguard as if it had the potential to become a mainstream blockbuster from the start, and that's what led to the game's downfall. If he had been aware of and realistic about the current MMORPG market, he could've probably made different choices (mostly in regards to costs) that could've helped the game actually end up profitable and successful.
All MMORPGs do NOT have to play like WoW to survive... diversity is good! But the devs have to be aware of what their game IS, and what's its actual playerbase will be, and to have realistic goals in mind. Vanguard is a prime example of devs being out of touch with the current market and making a lot of poor decisions (mostly in terms of money and use of development time).
Absolutely agree with what you post about niche games being able to survive. However, I must insist that no niche game can survive with a 30+ mil dev budget. It just can't happen.
I've seen a ton of posts, here and elsewhere, that postulate how much a game makes and all of them are pie in the sky estimates no where near reality. You don't hav e to play like WOW ( whatever that means) but you sure as shit better keep your budget in line with reduced niche expectations.
Brad treated Vanguard as if it had the potential to become a mainstream blockbuster from the start, and that's what led to the game's downfall. If he had been aware of and realistic about the current MMORPG market, he could've probably made different choices (mostly in regards to costs) that could've helped the game actually end up profitable and successful.
All MMORPGs do NOT have to play like WoW to survive... diversity is good! But the devs have to be aware of what their game IS, and what's its actual playerbase will be, and to have realistic goals in mind. Vanguard is a prime example of devs being out of touch with the current market and making a lot of poor decisions (mostly in terms of money and use of development time).
Absolutely agree with what you post about niche games being able to survive. However, I must insist that no niche game can survive with a 30+ mil dev budget. It just can't happen.
I've seen a ton of posts, here and elsewhere, that postulate how much a game makes and all of them are pie in the sky estimates no where near reality. You don't hav e to play like WOW ( whatever that means) but you sure as shit better keep your budget in line with reduced niche expectations.
I think that's his point, though-- if Sigil and Brad McQuaid had been more aware of how the MMO market was changing around them, and if they'd been more realistic about how their design was no longer the norm, but a niche, then maybe they could have scaled back and taken a more streamlined approach. Maybe the game wouldn't have taken $30+ million to make, and it would be in a completely different position than it is now.
It's true that all games don't have to be World of Warcraft in order to survive. I think there's plenty of room for lots of different types of games in the MMO genre, including a harder, more old-school, early EQ1 type game. Problem is, they tried to bring a game like that to the mass market, when the mass market isn't interested in those kinds of timesinks anymore, as evidenced by Blizzard's success.
Perhaps if they'd acknowledged that the game was going to be a niche once they saw how Blizz was steamrolling everyone, they could have moved to develop and market this game with a smaller crowd in mind, including how they allocated their resources and spent their money. Maybe they wouldn't have had to jump to SOE at all if they'd been more savvy.
Actually he does
He posted on my Viral Marketing thread about a month ago
I think he was willing to post here until he discovered he couldn't get the mods to censor posters like he did on the other forum sites.Wooooo let's get out the tinfoil hats! I bet you take "Loose Change" as gospel too.
Here you go, straight from Brad's mouth: www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php
"That said, there is a subset of posts by players (and likely non-players) that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative. My hope would be that the moderators of these boards would identify and deal with this small group, especially on afiliated sites."
Any other smart comments about my tinfoil hat?So you are saying players "that are not constructive and purely negative for the sake of being negative" shouldn't be dealt with? I guess your own self-preservation is making you say such things.
Who decides what is or isn't constructive? I sure hope it isn't Brad McQuaid...
I hope I didn't cut to much but anyway we all have rules to live with eachother by on this forums you can have this, for example.
Here goes.
Example: Asking whether a game has PvP in a thread about crafting materials found in a new expansion is Topic Hijacking.
Example: Telling someone that you disagree with their argument is tolerated, while calling someone inappropriate names is not.
Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
For example: If there is one game that you did not enjoy, voicing your opinion is encouraged. Posting this opinion in every thread concerning that game to the point that it disrupts all other conversation is not tolerated.
So regardles of being constructive I do not think that your pal Brad pur up these rules.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"