AO is F2P now. I don´t think that they moved to F2P because the servers were so crowded. EVE is also 2-3 days old. Around 15000 online now, I think. DAoC is stated as "dying" with the same population.
(I know, the EVE-population grew constantly over years from like 5000)
It boggles my mind that the second most expensive game in history is not even as well-designed or well-written as EQ1 was.
Thanks for the chart. Hard facts speak louder than a thousand overly-optimistic fanbois and stealth marketers.
120 posts to your credit, how many of those were not trolling Vanguard? Love the troll high-five btw.
To the O.P., you misquoted B McQ. He did not say what you said he said. Totally wrong and show me the quote so I can show you how you misrepresented it.
Either way, Vanguard, even with it's problems, is still the most engaging MMO to be released in a long time. That is if it's your type of game, which it is not for every WoW fan to crawl into the genre.
Over 5K posts to your credit, and you still don't know the definition of "troll." Impressive.
P.S. I've been playing MMOs since UO, and I'm not exactly a WoW fan. Vanguard is the least engaging game I've played since The Sims Online.
I know that you are a troll. Look at your post history and read them. They were posted by a Vanguard troll. If Vanguard is the least engaging game since you played the Sims (rofl) what game are you currently enjoying, if any?
If the graph shoulds levels gained, which is no measure of activity, it is actually right and how it should be.
As you level it should get harder, thus less activity.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Well, the listed titles "recovered" in a very small scale. EvE never had a bad launch, it didn't actually HAVE a launch... It was just... there, someday, and people played it. It built up from that point. And you're right about AC, but its a miniature scale population compared to a major title of these days.
Vanguard threw a darn lot of superfine sounding things in the pot, exciting hundreds of thousands of players. During the early days of beta, Vanguard was "the coming king", THE MMO to wait for, for PvPers and PvEers alike.
So what I meant by "messing up release" correlates directly to "how far one can fall"... And I tell you, Vanguard fell far... I mean sure, the game can recover somewhat and people might join in. But it will play in its own small league, it will never ever be a killer, one of the titles you TALK about, at least not as a good example...
It's like vomiting all over your t-shirt during the first 30 seconds of your date. Sure, she might still like you afterwards, but it will always be far from the blast it could've been....
Whats to rant on this game? Same design group as past failures with anything associated with SOE. Great ideas,bad implementation. Endless bugs. Decent atmosphere if you have the system to run it.
Sigil is nothing more than Verant with a new name. Still a close knit group to SOE. Noth worth the price thats charged. I stick to a game which is quite fun to play. Either WOW or DAOC or EVE depending on the circumstance.
The game Vanguard is a flop. simply put. no need to rant. It has as many flames as did NGE with Star Wars. Hell, even the design group admitted to serious flaws within this game.
Future reference. Please move this to the vanguard rant thread under the vanguard game forum. This thread is a waste of space in general public forums.
It's like vomiting all over your t-shirt during the first 30 seconds of your date. Sure, she might still like you afterwards, but it will always be far from the blast it could've been....
Meridion
That is a very humerous and accurate analogy. From my own experiences I would say that whether a game bounces back or not depends on what you consider bouncing back. If we are talking about pure population, then a game like AO did not bounce back. I tend to look at more in terms of gameplay. AO in this regard had a tremendous bounce back, with a staggering amount of content and a massive expansion pack. EQ2 I think went the same road, but if EQ2 had a better launch it would be doing much better population wise.
The question becomes if Vanguard had waited 3-6 months, and fixed the bigs and performance problem without changing aspects of gameplay (which would have required more funding), would it have yielded a substantially higher return?
It boggles my mind that the second most expensive game in history is not even as well-designed or well-written as EQ1 was.
Thanks for the chart. Hard facts speak louder than a thousand overly-optimistic fanbois and stealth marketers.
120 posts to your credit, how many of those were not trolling Vanguard? Love the troll high-five btw.
To the O.P., you misquoted B McQ. He did not say what you said he said. Totally wrong and show me the quote so I can show you how you misrepresented it.
Either way, Vanguard, even with it's problems, is still the most engaging MMO to be released in a long time. That is if it's your type of game, which it is not for every WoW fan to crawl into the genre.
Good god man, how blindly biased are you? Do you not recognize crap when it is handed to you? I was a follower of vanguard too man, ever since beta. But the truth if the matter remains, they never should have released it that early. Now they are paying their dues. And paying even more due to them being with SoE. You honestly didn't see this coming? Ill bet a nice 5 dollar bill that we'll see SoE buy the title from brad and a new "NGE" will happen.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Good god man, how blindly biased are you? Do you not recognize crap when it is handed to you? I was a follower of vanguard too man, ever since beta. But the truth if the matter remains, they never should have released it that early. Now they are paying their dues. And paying even more due to them being with SoE. You honestly didn't see this coming? Ill bet a nice 5 dollar bill that we'll see SoE buy the title from brad and a new "NGE" will happen.
When was the last time you played Vanguard? I was loving it 4 months before release, and it has only improved since then. I like the game, you don't. God made us individuals. Thank you god, I don't have to play the same mind numbing crap that most other MMO'ers seem to enjoy. May I ask what game you are enjoying at the moment?
Good god man, how blindly biased are you? Do you not recognize crap when it is handed to you? I was a follower of vanguard too man, ever since beta. But the truth if the matter remains, they never should have released it that early. Now they are paying their dues. And paying even more due to them being with SoE. You honestly didn't see this coming? Ill bet a nice 5 dollar bill that we'll see SoE buy the title from brad and a new "NGE" will happen.
When was the last time you played Vanguard? a few days ago (my 30 aren't up yet)I was loving it 4 months before release, and it has only improved since then. I like the game, you don't. this isn't saying "i like vanilla and you like chocolate". i like games i can PLAY. even wow, at it's release, i only had to deal with lag in ironforge, not lag constantly everyplace i went and the reply to every problem i have is "oh you need to upgrade your hardware and/or drivers" EVEN IF i have the best piece of XYZ on the market with the most current drivers. God made us individuals. Thank you god, I don't have to play the same mind numbing crap that most other MMO'ers seem to enjoy. heh, you probably don't see the complete irony in that statement May I ask what game you are enjoying at the moment?hello kitty: island adventure. i highly recommend it OVER vanguard.
so um, since you loved VG 4 months before it's release into pay2play-beta... what other games do YOU like. that one statement honestly makes me wonder... horizons?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Good god man, how blindly biased are you? Do you not recognize crap when it is handed to you? I was a follower of vanguard too man, ever since beta. But the truth if the matter remains, they never should have released it that early. Now they are paying their dues. And paying even more due to them being with SoE. You honestly didn't see this coming? Ill bet a nice 5 dollar bill that we'll see SoE buy the title from brad and a new "NGE" will happen.
When was the last time you played Vanguard? a few days ago (my 30 aren't up yet)I was loving it 4 months before release, and it has only improved since then. I like the game, you don't. this isn't saying "i like vanilla and you like chocolate". i like games i can PLAY. even wow, at it's release, i only had to deal with lag in ironforge, not lag constantly everyplace i went and the reply to every problem i have is "oh you need to upgrade your hardware and/or drivers" EVEN IF i have the best piece of XYZ on the market with the most current drivers. God made us individuals. Thank you god, I don't have to play the same mind numbing crap that most other MMO'ers seem to enjoy. heh, you probably don't see the complete irony in that statement May I ask what game you are enjoying at the moment?hello kitty: island adventure. i highly recommend it OVER vanguard.
so um, since you loved VG 4 months before it's release into pay2play-beta... what other games do YOU like. that one statement honestly makes me wonder... horizons?
Ahh you play Hello Kitty, I guess I better spend the waste the next half hour of my life working up a good come back....
And BTW if you can't PLAY Vanguard, then you are either computer or mentally challenged.
I dislike VG because it fails to innovate much like LotRO. The only difference between the games is personal, do you want a quality product with features coming in the future? or do you want features now, combined with an unpolished product?
The results speak for themselves. People want polish.
The rest of us want innovation.
VG players are in the minority.
I would also like to add that if you think VG requires more skill than other mmos or you think VG breaks the mold of WoW clones or something along those lines, you need medical attention.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Good god man, how blindly biased are you? Do you not recognize crap when it is handed to you? I was a follower of vanguard too man, ever since beta. But the truth if the matter remains, they never should have released it that early. Now they are paying their dues. And paying even more due to them being with SoE. You honestly didn't see this coming? Ill bet a nice 5 dollar bill that we'll see SoE buy the title from brad and a new "NGE" will happen.
When was the last time you played Vanguard? I was loving it 4 months before release, and it has only improved since then. I like the game, you don't. God made us individuals. Thank you god, I don't have to play the same mind numbing crap that most other MMO'ers seem to enjoy. May I ask what game you are enjoying at the moment?
I played it till one week after beta, and then watched forums as people said not much changed. I could really give a rats ass if you like it to tell you the truth. What irks me is that you flame others so openly when you support a game that was rushed out when it could have been worked on more. Thats my issue with people that support that game. They are showing that its ok to support devs that sell unfinished products. THAT sir, is my problem. What game am i enjoying at the moment? FFXI, guild wars, and a whole bunch of others, so whats your point?
Sorry to get so rude with you but after reading half of your posts (most seem to be trolling) here and there, its kinda getting to me pretty fast.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
AnarchyArt is just mad, because all the games he plays are very underpopulated. Funny, how fast he has left these "totally awesome, mind provoking, so not WoW" games. What's this make it AA? About your 10th game that you swore was the greatest ever made.
I dislike VG because it fails to innovate much like LotRO. The only difference between the games is personal, do you want a quality product with features coming in the future? or do you want features now, combined with an unpolished product? The results speak for themselves. People want polish. The rest of us want innovation.
I'd have to agree with you on this 100%. I always kept hearing about how VG was supposed to be innovate, but at the same time be the spiritual successor to Everquest. I'll give them credit for trying to do the zoneless seamless overworld, but it was done a long time ago in a little game called Asheron's Call. I agree with you on LOTRO. I'm sure it's a solid stable game for what it is, but it's just not for me. I led my guild through a 2 year stint in WoW, and I think I'm done with games like that. While I'll be the first to admit, I haven't played LOTRO, I am very curious about the game difficulty level. I think that for a purely PvE game to be successful it needs to have a decent level of challenge.
As far as innovation goes, I'm looking forward to see what happens to Pirates of the Burning Sea, Fallen Earth, and Darkfall. We are starting hopefully see more people adopt the seamless world model, and a more skill based character development. Vanguard biggest contribution to the genre at this point may be the message it sends to other developers that if you try to release a game that isn't in an acceptable retail form, we as gamers will hold your accountable and put your feet to the fire.
I dislike VG because it fails to innovate much like LotRO. The only difference between the games is personal, do you want a quality product with features coming in the future? or do you want features now, combined with an unpolished product? The results speak for themselves. People want polish. The rest of us want innovation.
I'd have to agree with you on this 100%. I always kept hearing about how VG was supposed to be innovate, but at the same time be the spiritual successor to Everquest. I'll give them credit for trying to do the zoneless seamless overworld,
Well, to be honest they don't even do that! you have to load chunks! That short wait between two chunks is what makes it not seemless. They got close though, somewhat close.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
A shame i had to find this article in the pub ... more of this is should be on the front page of MMORPG.com. Unfortunetly, this would not go down well with advertisers i imagine. Keep it up Paragus1
A shame i had to find this article in the pub ... more of this is should be on the front page of MMORPG.com. Unfortunetly, this would not go down well with advertisers i imagine. Keep it up Paragus1
I actually applied for one of editorial positions and sent Jon Wood my Rant on Unfinished MMOs, but alas, I have yet to hear back Thanks for the support though. Right back at you!
Vanguard's main problems (from what I could see) were in putting graphics ahead of gameplay. EQ2 did the same thing, though was much smoother at launch. I think designers should get the content and the gameplay down, then pretty up the game as much as they can before launch. The only bar they needed to pass, in terms of graphics, was WOW, and that's nothing.
QFT - The next generation mmo won't be about eye candy it will be about innovative gameplay. If WoW has proven anything its that you don't need to have life-like graphics to produce a successful game. I hope the boys over at AoC and WAR keep this in mind.
Never played vanguard, my understanding of it i have gleamed from people who have played it and various articles. On paper, it sounds very promising but from what i have read and heard, it seems to have stumbled due to lack of basic accounting. The amount of time and cost of manpower to deliver the true "vision" of Vanguard was less than the available money to fund the project.
In comparison WoW, i belive had a bigger budget and less release pressure from a publisher. Like trying to make a Star Wars episodic movie without spending a $100 million on special effects, the expectation requires capital to generate an acceptable end result. As a non- player, i cant say if it is a good or bad game but is the secret to success simply very deep pockets and a realistic time scales? I ask this because i notice that EA (huge pockets) have put back the release date of WAR (already a lengthy time scale) with the stated aim of making it shine.
Maybe the problem is not so much a poorly implemented game but an initial expectation that was set too high? I met a player of EVE recently, who raves about the game and it seems that EVE (when it launched) was a game that delivered on its core objective and lived up to the promise although somewhat less polished.
Although, based purely on subscription numbers, EVE is a still a niche game but if Vanguard had set shallower goals and met them with a bug free and polished gaming experience - would it be declining in numbers as rapidly as it is today or would the EVE effect kicked in and a small but happy customer base grown into a substantial and profitable game.
There seems to be a lot of rumors going on about a possible Sony buyout of the game from Sigil. Is there anyone who has been following this story able to fill us in on what exactly has been going on? I'm also curious as to the impact (if any) the release of LOTRO has had on the population.
It boggles my mind that the second most expensive game in history is not even as well-designed or well-written as EQ1 was.
I think Brad's more to blame for Luclin than SOE was. SOE didn't have to release it when they did(which was definitely their fault) but so much about that expansion reminds me of Vanguard. I think he totally mismanaged that project and left the company to save face.
I tried it... it was great game, interesting... beautiful graphics... i was really hooked for it.... after little more then 1 week i deleted it and maybe i'll give it a try after half year or so.
Once again, disaster from SoE side. Really, it looks like they decided to make some money while they can, on first few thousands of people. I can't find any logical reason why should any company release game in such a horrid state.
I was alpha/ beta tester in quite few games. And yet i have to find one with so many problems...
Nothing, but literally nothing, isn't working how it was supposed to work in this game. But since i still consider this as alpha version which shouldn't be released for good year i'll give it a try after some time...
Not trying to rant or to speak nonsenses here, neither i'm trying to bash this game. But i tried it , got tired of countless bugs / client problems and i decided to move on.
Who knows, maybe it will be best game ever to someone else... i just don't enjoy 5 client crashes in 1hr , then after i finally manage to stay for some time in game and get my hands on "one of thousands" of quest, i find out that quest is bugged. No thanks, i rather turn on PC and watch my mouse pointer for 1hr.
One of the Vanguard sites has revolted! Concreate proof that they are trying to spin the game beyond all recognition. I applaud the fan site for not allowing itself to be sucked in by Brad McQuaid's nonsense.
The following is a post by the Admin of one of the Vanguard "official" sites...
I have made the decision after much soul searching to recuse Vanguard Roleplayers from the Affiliate program.
I am sure that this will come as a shock to many of you, but I can assure you that this will have no significant impact on our site. I came to this decision for a variety of reasons, but the most important ones are these:
This site exists for players interested in immersive gaming, not to manage spin and public perception for Sigil and SOE.
I will not edit people's words or make posts disappear that do not reflect the image of Vanguard that Sigil desires to be broadcasted, and I will not ask other people to moderate the forums in such a way either.
We are not paid to run this site. We are in no way compensated for putting ourselves through the frustration of having fellow players harass and insult us for moderating them. We have been provided no real support by Sigil in exchange for the burden of being their first, most accessible and most visible line of customer service. Rather than have paid staff members trained in handling this task of dealing with disgruntled customers, the management of Sigil decided it was better to disperse community management across multiple sites in order to lessen the visibility of customer displeasure. The philosophy behind this is that it is better for Sigil to simply be at fault for controversial game changes and someone else who is not Sigil to be at fault for controlling people's ability to express themselves when upset about those changes.
I was happy to run Vanguard Roleplayers in compliance with the non-disclosure agreement prior to the beginning of open beta. I believed in the necessity of it. I cannot, however, bring myself to volunteer to do things that conflict with who I am as a person in terms of honesty and personal integrity.
When Sigil moved from Microsoft to SOE last year, many people were only reassured to remain by the promise that SOE would not have any control or direct contact with Vanguard.
There are still many wounds left from the experience of the NGE that hurt those of us betrayed by that turn of events in SWG. As creative gamers, we become emotionally invested in bringing our characters to life and developing friendships with other players. We become more deeply bonded with the game world than anyone, and when that connection in SWG was ripped away from us, for many it left a disillusionment and pain worse than many can understand or sufficiently express.
I can and will keep being a customer and paying player of Vanguard looking forward with hope to the new relationship between Sigil and SOE. I will not, however, be an accomplice to controlling their spin. I cannot in good conscience remain in the Affiliate program and respect the terms of it knowing that there is a possibility I may be in the position of acceding to a new type of non-disclosure agreement in the future relationship with SOE - one where I might end up knowing things I cannot share with my community, be required to withhold from them information that I ethically feel they should know, or deny them the comfort of being able to express their concern and unhappiness if things do take a turn for the worse. I was disgusted with this in the past when I witnessed it as a player, and I will not run the risk of being that sort of mouthpiece to the SOE propaganda-machine as an administrator.
SOE does not have a good track record with being honest with or respectful of its customers. It does not have a good track record of making decisions guided by artistic and creative vision rather than chasing the ever-elusive secret to WoW-like subscriptions thinking it can be found through the implementation of various mechanisms of instant gratification that ultimately erode a game and weaken its long-term success.
I hope SOE will turn over a new leaf with Vanguard because I love what I have going on in the game right now as far as the friends I have made and the creative venues I'm exploring. However, I am very aware that if what is happening right now had been how things had happened this time last year, I would likely not even know most of the friends I have made through this site because I would not have committed to the responsibility of creating this site nor would I (or many of these friends) have put myself at the mercy of SOE again.
Comments
Err... AO and EVE?
AO is F2P now. I don´t think that they moved to F2P because the servers were so crowded.
EVE is also 2-3 days old. Around 15000 online now, I think. DAoC is stated as "dying" with the same population.
(I know, the EVE-population grew constantly over years from like 5000)
120 posts to your credit, how many of those were not trolling Vanguard? Love the troll high-five btw.
To the O.P., you misquoted B McQ. He did not say what you said he said. Totally wrong and show me the quote so I can show you how you misrepresented it.
Either way, Vanguard, even with it's problems, is still the most engaging MMO to be released in a long time. That is if it's your type of game, which it is not for every WoW fan to crawl into the genre.
Over 5K posts to your credit, and you still don't know the definition of "troll." Impressive.P.S. I've been playing MMOs since UO, and I'm not exactly a WoW fan. Vanguard is the least engaging game I've played since The Sims Online.
I know that you are a troll. Look at your post history and read them. They were posted by a Vanguard troll. If Vanguard is the least engaging game since you played the Sims (rofl) what game are you currently enjoying, if any?
If the graph shoulds levels gained, which is no measure of activity, it is actually right and how it should be.
As you level it should get harder, thus less activity.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Vanguard threw a darn lot of superfine sounding things in the pot, exciting hundreds of thousands of players. During the early days of beta, Vanguard was "the coming king", THE MMO to wait for, for PvPers and PvEers alike.
So what I meant by "messing up release" correlates directly to "how far one can fall"... And I tell you, Vanguard fell far... I mean sure, the game can recover somewhat and people might join in. But it will play in its own small league, it will never ever be a killer, one of the titles you TALK about, at least not as a good example...
It's like vomiting all over your t-shirt during the first 30 seconds of your date. Sure, she might still like you afterwards, but it will always be far from the blast it could've been....
Meridion
Sigil is nothing more than Verant with a new name. Still a close knit group to SOE. Noth worth the price thats charged. I stick to a game which is quite fun to play. Either WOW or DAOC or EVE depending on the circumstance.
The game Vanguard is a flop. simply put. no need to rant. It has as many flames as did NGE with Star Wars. Hell, even the design group admitted to serious flaws within this game.
Future reference. Please move this to the vanguard rant thread under the vanguard game forum. This thread is a waste of space in general public forums.
The question becomes if Vanguard had waited 3-6 months, and fixed the bigs and performance problem without changing aspects of gameplay (which would have required more funding), would it have yielded a substantially higher return?
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120 posts to your credit, how many of those were not trolling Vanguard? Love the troll high-five btw.
To the O.P., you misquoted B McQ. He did not say what you said he said. Totally wrong and show me the quote so I can show you how you misrepresented it.
Either way, Vanguard, even with it's problems, is still the most engaging MMO to be released in a long time. That is if it's your type of game, which it is not for every WoW fan to crawl into the genre.
Good god man, how blindly biased are you? Do you not recognize crap when it is handed to you? I was a follower of vanguard too man, ever since beta. But the truth if the matter remains, they never should have released it that early. Now they are paying their dues. And paying even more due to them being with SoE. You honestly didn't see this coming? Ill bet a nice 5 dollar bill that we'll see SoE buy the title from brad and a new "NGE" will happen."Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
When was the last time you played Vanguard? I was loving it 4 months before release, and it has only improved since then. I like the game, you don't. God made us individuals. Thank you god, I don't have to play the same mind numbing crap that most other MMO'ers seem to enjoy. May I ask what game you are enjoying at the moment?
When was the last time you played Vanguard? a few days ago (my 30 aren't up yet)I was loving it 4 months before release, and it has only improved since then. I like the game, you don't. this isn't saying "i like vanilla and you like chocolate". i like games i can PLAY. even wow, at it's release, i only had to deal with lag in ironforge, not lag constantly everyplace i went and the reply to every problem i have is "oh you need to upgrade your hardware and/or drivers" EVEN IF i have the best piece of XYZ on the market with the most current drivers. God made us individuals. Thank you god, I don't have to play the same mind numbing crap that most other MMO'ers seem to enjoy. heh, you probably don't see the complete irony in that statement May I ask what game you are enjoying at the moment?
hello kitty: island adventure. i highly recommend it OVER vanguard.
so um, since you loved VG 4 months before it's release into pay2play-beta... what other games do YOU like. that one statement honestly makes me wonder... horizons?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
and have a high tolerance for poor quality software......
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When was the last time you played Vanguard? a few days ago (my 30 aren't up yet)I was loving it 4 months before release, and it has only improved since then. I like the game, you don't. this isn't saying "i like vanilla and you like chocolate". i like games i can PLAY. even wow, at it's release, i only had to deal with lag in ironforge, not lag constantly everyplace i went and the reply to every problem i have is "oh you need to upgrade your hardware and/or drivers" EVEN IF i have the best piece of XYZ on the market with the most current drivers. God made us individuals. Thank you god, I don't have to play the same mind numbing crap that most other MMO'ers seem to enjoy. heh, you probably don't see the complete irony in that statement May I ask what game you are enjoying at the moment?
hello kitty: island adventure. i highly recommend it OVER vanguard.
so um, since you loved VG 4 months before it's release into pay2play-beta... what other games do YOU like. that one statement honestly makes me wonder... horizons?
Ahh you play Hello Kitty, I guess I better spend the waste the next half hour of my life working up a good come back....
And BTW if you can't PLAY Vanguard, then you are either computer or mentally challenged.
I can't play Vanguard, either. But then, I keep trying to wipe my ass with my foot, so...
I dislike VG because it fails to innovate much like LotRO. The only difference between the games is personal, do you want a quality product with features coming in the future? or do you want features now, combined with an unpolished product?
The results speak for themselves. People want polish.
The rest of us want innovation.
VG players are in the minority.
I would also like to add that if you think VG requires more skill than other mmos or you think VG breaks the mold of WoW clones or something along those lines, you need medical attention.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
When was the last time you played Vanguard? I was loving it 4 months before release, and it has only improved since then. I like the game, you don't. God made us individuals. Thank you god, I don't have to play the same mind numbing crap that most other MMO'ers seem to enjoy. May I ask what game you are enjoying at the moment?
I played it till one week after beta, and then watched forums as people said not much changed. I could really give a rats ass if you like it to tell you the truth. What irks me is that you flame others so openly when you support a game that was rushed out when it could have been worked on more. Thats my issue with people that support that game. They are showing that its ok to support devs that sell unfinished products. THAT sir, is my problem. What game am i enjoying at the moment? FFXI, guild wars, and a whole bunch of others, so whats your point?
Sorry to get so rude with you but after reading half of your posts (most seem to be trolling) here and there, its kinda getting to me pretty fast.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
AnarchyArt is just mad, because all the games he plays are very underpopulated. Funny, how fast he has left these "totally awesome, mind provoking, so not WoW" games. What's this make it AA? About your 10th game that you swore was the greatest ever made.
As far as innovation goes, I'm looking forward to see what happens to Pirates of the Burning Sea, Fallen Earth, and Darkfall. We are starting hopefully see more people adopt the seamless world model, and a more skill based character development. Vanguard biggest contribution to the genre at this point may be the message it sends to other developers that if you try to release a game that isn't in an acceptable retail form, we as gamers will hold your accountable and put your feet to the fire.
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Well, to be honest they don't even do that!
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
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QFT - The next generation mmo won't be about eye candy it will be about innovative gameplay. If WoW has proven anything its that you don't need to have life-like graphics to produce a successful game. I hope the boys over at AoC and WAR keep this in mind.
-B
Never played vanguard, my understanding of it i have gleamed from people who have played it and various articles. On paper, it sounds very promising but from what i have read and heard, it seems to have stumbled due to lack of basic accounting. The amount of time and cost of manpower to deliver the true "vision" of Vanguard was less than the available money to fund the project.
In comparison WoW, i belive had a bigger budget and less release pressure from a publisher. Like trying to make a Star Wars episodic movie without spending a $100 million on special effects, the expectation requires capital to generate an acceptable end result. As a non- player, i cant say if it is a good or bad game but is the secret to success simply very deep pockets and a realistic time scales? I ask this because i notice that EA (huge pockets) have put back the release date of WAR (already a lengthy time scale) with the stated aim of making it shine.
Maybe the problem is not so much a poorly implemented game but an initial expectation that was set too high? I met a player of EVE recently, who raves about the game and it seems that EVE (when it launched) was a game that delivered on its core objective and lived up to the promise although somewhat less polished.
Although, based purely on subscription numbers, EVE is a still a niche game but if Vanguard had set shallower goals and met them with a bug free and polished gaming experience - would it be declining in numbers as rapidly as it is today or would the EVE effect kicked in and a small but happy customer base grown into a substantial and profitable game.
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Once again, disaster from SoE side. Really, it looks like they decided to make some money while they can, on first few thousands of people. I can't find any logical reason why should any company release game in such a horrid state.
I was alpha/ beta tester in quite few games. And yet i have to find one with so many problems...
Nothing, but literally nothing, isn't working how it was supposed to work in this game. But since i still consider this as alpha version which shouldn't be released for good year i'll give it a try after some time...
Not trying to rant or to speak nonsenses here, neither i'm trying to bash this game. But i tried it , got tired of countless bugs / client problems and i decided to move on.
Who knows, maybe it will be best game ever to someone else... i just don't enjoy 5 client crashes in 1hr , then after i finally manage to stay for some time in game and get my hands on "one of thousands" of quest, i find out that quest is bugged. No thanks, i rather turn on PC and watch my mouse pointer for 1hr.
Cheers
The following is a post by the Admin of one of the Vanguard "official" sites...
http://www.vanguardroleplayers.com/f...ead.php?t=4126
I have made the decision after much soul searching to recuse Vanguard Roleplayers from the Affiliate program.
I am sure that this will come as a shock to many of you, but I can assure you that this will have no significant impact on our site. I came to this decision for a variety of reasons, but the most important ones are these:
This site exists for players interested in immersive gaming, not to manage spin and public perception for Sigil and SOE.
I will not edit people's words or make posts disappear that do not reflect the image of Vanguard that Sigil desires to be broadcasted, and I will not ask other people to moderate the forums in such a way either.
We are not paid to run this site. We are in no way compensated for putting ourselves through the frustration of having fellow players harass and insult us for moderating them. We have been provided no real support by Sigil in exchange for the burden of being their first, most accessible and most visible line of customer service. Rather than have paid staff members trained in handling this task of dealing with disgruntled customers, the management of Sigil decided it was better to disperse community management across multiple sites in order to lessen the visibility of customer displeasure. The philosophy behind this is that it is better for Sigil to simply be at fault for controversial game changes and someone else who is not Sigil to be at fault for controlling people's ability to express themselves when upset about those changes.
I was happy to run Vanguard Roleplayers in compliance with the non-disclosure agreement prior to the beginning of open beta. I believed in the necessity of it. I cannot, however, bring myself to volunteer to do things that conflict with who I am as a person in terms of honesty and personal integrity.
When Sigil moved from Microsoft to SOE last year, many people were only reassured to remain by the promise that SOE would not have any control or direct contact with Vanguard.
There are still many wounds left from the experience of the NGE that hurt those of us betrayed by that turn of events in SWG. As creative gamers, we become emotionally invested in bringing our characters to life and developing friendships with other players. We become more deeply bonded with the game world than anyone, and when that connection in SWG was ripped away from us, for many it left a disillusionment and pain worse than many can understand or sufficiently express.
I can and will keep being a customer and paying player of Vanguard looking forward with hope to the new relationship between Sigil and SOE. I will not, however, be an accomplice to controlling their spin. I cannot in good conscience remain in the Affiliate program and respect the terms of it knowing that there is a possibility I may be in the position of acceding to a new type of non-disclosure agreement in the future relationship with SOE - one where I might end up knowing things I cannot share with my community, be required to withhold from them information that I ethically feel they should know, or deny them the comfort of being able to express their concern and unhappiness if things do take a turn for the worse. I was disgusted with this in the past when I witnessed it as a player, and I will not run the risk of being that sort of mouthpiece to the SOE propaganda-machine as an administrator.
SOE does not have a good track record with being honest with or respectful of its customers. It does not have a good track record of making decisions guided by artistic and creative vision rather than chasing the ever-elusive secret to WoW-like subscriptions thinking it can be found through the implementation of various mechanisms of instant gratification that ultimately erode a game and weaken its long-term success.
I hope SOE will turn over a new leaf with Vanguard because I love what I have going on in the game right now as far as the friends I have made and the creative venues I'm exploring. However, I am very aware that if what is happening right now had been how things had happened this time last year, I would likely not even know most of the friends I have made through this site because I would not have committed to the responsibility of creating this site nor would I (or many of these friends) have put myself at the mercy of SOE again.
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