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Lore-Masters, Do they get any better?
yoad
Member Posts: 28
Hey,
I've been playing since the first day of the Open Beta of Lotro, Pre orderd etc, and have been solely a Lore Master Elf, On the same char of course.
Each level I barley get any stronger and compared to other characters but minstrels i'm always weaker than any other char for my level.
Its not a good healer. not a good nuker [magics are not that strong], not a good DPSer, nor is it a good tanker........ and the Bear which seems to going to escort me all the way up to at least lvl 31 [and I haven't seen any new pets in the lore master trainer after lvl 31, but I guess they'll appear] is not enough to make up for my lack of defense and damage per hit I do...
So... does it go anywhere? Basically right now [lvl 19] its useless for fellowships compared to any char of a diffrent class, and its useless for solo as well.....
What do you think? Am I missing anything? Does it get much better later on? Is it just a bad mix of race and class?
Comments
If you think Minstrels are weak at 19 you don't know much about ANY of the classes. My minstrel at 20 never even comes close to dying even when I pull multiples and I have absolutely zero downtime.
You must have played a rogue in WoW.
Basically the main issue with Lore-Masters is that people just don't understand the class. LMs are the main crowd control (CC) class. We are not Damage Dealing DPSers. Also for the most part the Raven and Bear are little more than DOTS or a secondary means of temporary CC.
The class isn't weak if you are playing the class correctly. I consistantly manage to take on duo mobs +2 over my level and solo mobs +3 and in somecase +4 over me without worry of dying. Blinding Flash is one of the best CCs I have found in a game.
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As a LM your main power is debuffing. This is both solo and fellowship. You have to prep the monsters before engaging. You can render them pretty much helpless if you do.
this guys a moron pay him no mind. i played a lm up to lvl15 i kept saying once i get my bear ill be fine but didn't work out that way. i found lm to be ok with single mobs(only) as far as staying alive and keeping downtime to a minimum. they don't favor any "pet" classses from any other games as far as being overpowered thats for sure.
However, you have to remember that your Bear is not a tank. You cant ever just throw him into a hoard of monsters and expect him to 'tank' for you.
Did you do the class quest at lvl 15 and get the class trait for enhanced Bear? That really helps. You can get the class trait of improved pets at 21 and that helps even more.
However, you have to remember that your Bear is not a tank. You cant ever just throw him into a hoard of monsters and expect him to 'tank' for you.
yea thats what i was saying about its unlike any other pet class i've played. most other games you are more dependant on the pet itself but, its a nice niche that seperates it from the others i guess.
I did that quest, its helpful but not that great....
Even if I debuff the hell out of a monster using all skills avalible for lvl 19 LM its still not helpless, far from that actually.
Yes binding flash is neat, helped me out of a couple tough situations but I still die on right and left.
How is it not understood? I understand it perfectly and use all avalible skills in hand to weaken the mobs, yet you must agree with me that a champion would take FAR FAR FAR less damage than I take on +4 mob and do 10 times more damage aswell - thus, It is weak.
The whole deal is about the fact that although LM's are not useless on its own, they are useless compared to any character in the game. meaning - they CAN do damage but less than any char in game except minstrels in some cases, they can heal but less than any 'healer' and sometimes non-healer char in game [even my champ friend has better healing skill than mine], and they can't tank at all - period. so frankly if I were to be a party leader, and my party had 1 spot left, and someone of any class and race would ask to join, and then a lore master would ask to join i'd rather go for the any other class person.
i think lm is underpowered for sure but, i wouldn't compare it to champion i believe champion is way overpowered atm. i can't say how things are after lvl 15 for either of these 2 classes since i decided not to buy retail fyi.
lm was my favorite class in lotr when i was playing it to bad game doesnt want my money so havent bought retail yet..
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Throw in multiple adds, and you reduce these numbers.....
Nerfs will be coming to the Champs... don't envy them.
But I agree, Loremaster is probably the weakest in terms of soloing and damage dealing...its just the nature of it...you want high damage re-roll a Ranger or something...
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A Lore Master isn't a healer, isn't a nuker, isn't a DPS class and definitely isn't a tank. If you picked the class thinking they were any of these things, then you definitely made the wrong choice. The class description tells you exactly what they are good at - crowd control, insane debuffer, secondary heal, pet class. Your strength as a Lore Master is in groups - and one of the most welcome classes to any fellowship I'm in, second only to a Minstrel.
A Lore Master should come into their own when grouped against really tough elite boss situations. I can't comment on how good they are at soloing much, because I haven't played one past level 11. I had no problems soloing up to that level, although it's a nice challenge and you have to think tactically when facing multiple mobs using pet management, heals, and certain debuff lines. I prefer soloing with my champion, but on the flip side, I prefer grouping with my Lore Master.
I see LM's being an essential class for raid content - it makes a lot of sense.
A Lore Master isn't a healer, isn't a nuker, isn't a DPS class and definitely isn't a tank. If you picked the class thinking they were any of these things, then you definitely made the wrong choice. The class description tells you exactly what they are good at - crowd control, insane debuffer, secondary heal, pet class. Your strength as a Lore Master is in groups - and one of the most welcome classes to any fellowship I'm in, second only to a Minstrel.
A Lore Master should come into their own when grouped against really tough elite boss situations. I can't comment on how good they are at soloing much, because I haven't played one past level 11. I had no problems soloing up to that level, although it's a nice challenge and you have to think tactically when facing multiple mobs using pet management, heals, and certain debuff lines. I prefer soloing with my champion, but on the flip side, I prefer grouping with my Lore Master.
I see LM's being an essential class for raid content - it makes a lot of sense.
please, give me one good example on how does it 'control crowds' and how it is vital to a party?... im usualy in the background healing a little and adding 30-40 damage to the total damage being done.
Okay, I'll bite. Every situation is different, but let's say you're fighting 1 main elite boss and a few normal elites with your fellowship:
First: Sic pet on main boss after guardian or champ engages (leechcraft main tank). The raven also has a debuff spell - use it.
Hit boss with: Fire Lore - Decreases Melee Offense by 30%, adds 2% to miss chance, lasts 30 seconds recovery 1m
Cycle to and Hit any archer with: Wind Lore - Adds 1% to attack duration, decreaes ranged offense damage by 50%, lasts 15s, recovery 30s - if archer aggros you.. sic pet on him and pet debuff, and then rage your pet.
The tank should have aggro locked the boss by now:
Next - Gust of Wind on boss (adds 7% to miss chance + small damage)
Next Sign of Power: Command on boss - subtracts from parry chance, and adds 20% to attack duration.
Now use your most useful spell: Power of Knowledge to drain that suckers power down and add it to your own. this means the boss can't use any of his special abilities and you should end up on full power.
Next - Heal pet, refresh fire lore on boss (if it's refreshed...)
Next - Blinding flash any additional add that's peeled to a squishy (like you, or a minstrel) - warn the tanks
Next - Burning embers on boss - 10s dot (if it isn't dead already)
Next cylce back to archer: Power of knowledge (if he isn't dead) and then start burning it down with burning embers...
Help mop up the rest...etc, etc etc... it's all situational, but if you play it just right you have an excellent role within a fellowship . You have to be 10x more on the ball than a champion, switch targets a hell of a lot, have a clear idea of tactics and know exactly what your spells do, and what situation to use them for. At 19/20 you have a few more spells to play with too and should be looking forward to Cracked Earth and Wisdom of the Council.
If you still can't make it all work.. well.. roll another class or something. Maybe a LM isn't for you?
Okay, I'll bite. Every situation is different, but let's say you're fighting 1 main elite boss and a few normal elites with your fellowship:
First: Sic pet on main boss after guardian or champ engages (leechcraft main tank). The raven also has a debuff spell - use it.
Hit boss with: Fire Lore - Decreases Melee Offense by 30%, adds 2% to miss chance, lasts 30 seconds recovery 1m
Cycle to and Hit any archer with: Wind Lore - Adds 1% to attack duration, decreaes ranged offense damage by 50%, lasts 15s, recovery 30s - if archer aggros you.. sic pet on him and pet debuff, and then rage your pet.
The tank should have aggro locked the boss by now:
Next - Gust of Wind on boss (adds 7% to miss chance + small damage)
Next Sign of Power: Command on boss - subtracts from parry chance, and adds 20% to attack duration.
Now use your most useful spell: Power of Knowledge to drain that suckers power down and add it to your own. this means the boss can't use any of his special abilities and you should end up on full power.
Next - Heal pet, refresh fire lore on boss (if it's refreshed...)
Next - Blinding flash any additional add that's peeled to a squishy (like you, or a minstrel) - warn the tanks
Next - Burning embers on boss - 10s dot (if it isn't dead already)
Next cylce back to archer: Power of knowledge (if he isn't dead) and then start burning it down with burning embers...
Help mop up the rest...etc, etc etc... it's all situational, but if you play it just right you have an excellent role within a fellowship . You have to be 10x more on the ball than a champion, switch targets a hell of a lot, have a clear idea of tactics and know exactly what your spells do, and what situation to use them for. At 19/20 you have a few more spells to play with too and should be looking forward to Cracked Earth and Wisdom of the Council.
If you still can't make it all work.. well.. roll another class or something. Maybe a LM isn't for you?
sounds like once you get into some serious encounters you gotta really know your shit. i like that its not so mindless
The only really new function that you have coming up is power managemenmt. In addition to sucking go juice out of mobs, you will be able to transfer power to fellowship members that need it. In a long tough fight that is a very handy skill. Captains in particular will be your best friends once you get this, they have serious power issues. The only new pet that you will get is an eagle, and it comes at pretty high level after a reportedly arduous quest chain.
Honestly, if you are not digging the class at 19, you should probably start working on something else, it doesn't seem that you enjoy the role that they play in fellowships or the pace at which they solo. If you stick with it and you're not digging it by 25 or so, drop the toon like a hot rock, you don't have anything really mind blowing coming up (except maybe for the eagle, but I'm a bit skeptical that it will do anything but be another big flappy DoT like the crow...just with different skills).
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
lol Yeebo,
It looks like I have a lot to look forward to with my LM then.
The Lore Master reminds me so much of the Enchanter in EQ - and one of the most difficult classes to play in that game. It looks like it's the same with LOTRO too, but the LM is perfectly tailored for tacticians who love the supporting role type of class. I was looking at the power management abilities as well; trying to figure out how I could chain them together to help the fellowship. It looks like this is a major part of what the LM is about - nerf the opposition, suck them dry and then transfer power to your allies, along with a couple of morale enhancing abilities too. And all the while you're doing a little damage to help, but it's really not what the class is about.
The only trouble is that nerfing the enemy isn't as impressive as those big numbers, so your fellows don't really notice just how much of a difference your class makes by being there. It's one of those quiet, humble roles I think, and doesn't really cater to the ego as much as the masters of single target ranged DPS - the hunter, or in your face AoE spam DPS like the champion. But I really enjoy the Lore Master's role, and the challenge of playing the class certainly gives me an alternative to the champion's (kill everything within range of your 2-handed-axe) approach.
It's definitely not a class for everyone though. Maybe a lot of people don't realise that the LM isn't your usual, pointy-hatted nuker class, but that it involves a lot more subtlty, timing and quick thinking, as well as a good tactical approach.
I forget which of the many interviews this was in, but Turbine has already said the Loremaster will be getting some love in the "Month 1" patch, too...
I think Lore Master is one of those 'expert' professions. At least it seemed that way when I was playing the beta.
Loremasters are tough because you have a lot of different abilities and the sequence you use them in is critical to success or defeat in tougher fights.
That said we have a powerful toolset that includes debuffs, debuffs removals, morale healing, moderate damage, and of course the best crowd control of any class.
You are not a top rank damage dealer like a hunter or champion. You absolutely can not tank for any amount of time. If you want to be better at these things, then play a different class.
You should wait for june patch and see.
They'll change the lm a bit, they'll buff it.
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