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Why do people say LOTRO has no PvP?
Ruthgar
Member Posts: 730
I must be old, but to me the phrase "No PvP" means that one player can't attack another player.
I understand that younger players think that PvP is all about ganking lowbies, but LOTRO has Monster Play. One player can attack another player. It is Player vs Player.
Normally I am an either all or none when it comes to PvP. I would rather a game be pure PvP with player looting, xp from PKs, and XP loss, or have no PvP in it. I think Monster play is a unique alternative to just jamming PvP into an MMORPG.
I understand that younger players think that PvP is all about ganking lowbies, but LOTRO has Monster Play. One player can attack another player. It is Player vs Player.
Normally I am an either all or none when it comes to PvP. I would rather a game be pure PvP with player looting, xp from PKs, and XP loss, or have no PvP in it. I think Monster play is a unique alternative to just jamming PvP into an MMORPG.
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thats why
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Can I have your stuff, since your not using it.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
For some (myself included) PvP isn't a way to stroke your own ego by beating on lowbie characters, or even necessarily by defeating those of similar or greater power to you. Rather, it's a vital component of creating an immersive world which isn't bound by artificial constraints like letting you create a born'n'bred killer but then telling him/her who they can and can't kill. I can't think of anything LESS immersive than spending hours and hours building up your character, only to have to set them aside and pick up a ready-made supermonster (built to take on lvl 50's) whenever you want the unpredictability and excitement of pitting yourself against a real player rather than a predictable AI.
This then is a weak attempt to pitch to a wider market by appearing to circumvent the PvP debate, when in reality it offers little satisfaction for most playerss who prefer a PvP environment. The success of this game (which is pretty much beyond dispute) rests firmly on it's top-quality presentation, hugely popular I.P., rich questing and RPing components and the work Turbine have put in to ensure that the game was actually *ready* when they released it. I can't imagine that the Monster Play mini-game (since that's essentially what it is) will be regarded as anything other than a temporary diversion for most players, certainly not a major selling point of the game.
Sorry but you are wrong. The monsters that people play are not temporary. They are persistent. From the time you create your first monster to Play with it is the same one that you will always play with. It does not go away and you do not have to create a new one everytime you want to play as a monster.
When you create said monster you name it. You quest with it to gain destiny points to upgrade it. It may be lvl 50 but you can customize it. Cause that lvl 50 has the same skills and abilities that a lvl one does. It is up too you to gain the desitny points to gain the skills and abilities making that monster stronger. The same way you make a player character stronger as you lvl it up. The only differance between the two is you don't have to lvl the monster toon up from one. You do everything else just not that.
The PvM system does make sense if you look at it with an open mind. Set aside all of the traditional ideas of what makes PvP and look at PvM with it. You will see that it is one player against another player. Just one player (the monster) doesn't have to lvl from one to cap. But he has to earn his skills and abilities thru hard work. It is a very small differance if you look at it with an open mind.
Double post.
- There is no PvP in LOTRO.
- LOTRO is just a WoW clone.
Now, I find both of these comments to be rather irritating. Why? Well, first of all LOTRO does have PvP, as it has Monster Play (PvMP). "But it isn't PvP! You can't grief newbies!" Yeah and guess what, there is no good MMO out there on the market that allows you to gank newbies. WoW and GW don't allow it, why should LOTRO? It just degrades the quality of the game and creates for strife within the community. Now as for LOTRO being a WoW clone, it isn't, well not unless you consider WoW to be an EQ clone. I mean LOTRO just took the basic MMO template, put in in Middle Earth, and added Monster Play instead of traditional PvP and viola! WoW is an MMO and so is LOTRO, but that is where the similarities pretty much end...Sure you can, provided they have stumbled into contested territory or were silly enough to get PvP flagged.
Sorry yoú are so completly wrong here..:)
You haven't tried it have you ?
It's not a side mini game...
It's a huge zone where all the PVP will take place and it holds capturable forts and towns on a large map..Only diffrence is that you will not have to worry about leveling your monster(If you want to play the dark side)...But if you wish to PVP with the god side..well level up your toon to 50 and head to Ettenmors..
The only thing that bothers people is that it seems diffrent..but it's NOT even very diffrent from all the other games part from that the dark side doesnt have to level for 6 months..But you can still ENHANCE your dark toon by doing quests etc..
/Junker
2. It most certainly is a WoW clone, and WoW is just an EQ/DAoC/AC2/etc clone. All these games are just variations of the same theme. What differentiates them is how well their gameplay mechanics are implemented and how fully their game world is realized.
Whats funny is you basically summed up what a lot of people were complaining about, but you didn't realize you did it
Equal opportunity troll.
2. It most certainly is a WoW clone, and WoW is just an EQ/DAoC/AC2/etc clone. All these games are just variations of the same theme. What differentiates them is how well their gameplay mechanics are implemented and how fully their game world is realized.
Whats funny is you basically summed up what a lot of people were complaining about, but you didn't realize you did it
No, it's not a Wow clone. Your qualifications for a clone are simply the qualifications for being an MMORPG. Aside from which, it's been hashed over; everyone has an opinion and I could care less most of the time what yours is or if you know mine.
To the subject at hand. MP's require time and play to amass points to improve your character stats. Sounds pretty much like regular player characters, albeit the MP's reside in a more confined area which will help IMPROVE the amount of actual PvMP action which is the primary point for them. You cannot judge LOTRO PvMP until a decent number of PC's have reached a level to venture into the PvMP zone. Until then, MP's basically can group and raid/take over cities, etc. I think they did this in response to RvR issues in the past where there was so much contested area that it was hard to easily jump into the action. I am sure they can add more areas later on if it's too boring or filled up.
Some people can look at things objectively, others can't. You, and many other fanbois here, fall into the "can't" category. Whatever makes you sleep better at night. I'll be looking forward to hearing your opinion again in the coming months.
Equal opportunity troll.
Some people can look at things objectively, others can't. You, and many other fanbois here, fall into the "can't" category. Whatever makes you sleep better at night. I'll be looking forward to hearing your opinion again in the coming months.
Just because a product borrows ideas, it does not make that product a clone. By your definition, there are alot of cloned products and living things in this world.
Calling a product a clone is not looking at things objectively. In the coming months the game will be evolving on the already polished surface it has released on. They have confirmed housing in the near-future amoung other things. Whether or not they make good on these promises is another thing, but they have delivered so far, and it's not like they have performance issues to worry about constantly. I doubt I will be playing this game in the future, but if they add and improve what they have now, I see no reason why this game can't become something other than just another mmorpg.
Oh and about PvMP, it's PvP whether you like it or not, just because you think it isn't, doesn't make it so. I wonder what your reply will consist of because you can't exactly play the fanboy card on me considering I have little interest in the game in it's current state.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Could it be? Has LOTRO become the new red-headed step child of these forums? I guess the WoW fanboys finally get a break
Seriously, LOTRO has pvp. It is different and it may not be to your liking but it is still pvp. It is very obvious everyone who has been critical of PvMP in this thread has no experience playing and are going be what others are saying. Not to mention, this horse has been beat so bad there is nothing but horse shoes left!
As someone who has played truly hardcore PvP in WWII Online for two years, I find that PvMP to be a very fun experience. It is player vs player, has challenge, is goal-oriented, and on top of that fits within Middle Earth lore. Quite an amazing feat for Turbine.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Sure, there are a lot of clones in this world. Ever compared a Lincoln to a Ford? Ever tried on some Calvin Klein jeans, and then some Costco house brand jeans? If I wanted to, I'm sure I could come up with hundreds and thousands of such comparisons. But you get the point... moving on.
Calling a product a clone is most assuredly looking at things objectively. Objectively speaking, there is little difference in the manner in which you play LOTRO as compared to the manner in which you play WoW. Standard WASD type movement, a hotbar of spells/skills/abilities that you press for combat effects, crafting, questing, etc. You level up your character by gaining xp from defeating mobs or completing quests, and acquire new gear and abilities. Looking at things objectively is fun, huh
If PvMP was exactly the same as PvP, how come its called PvMP? How come if its exactly the same, people keep saying its not the same? How come if you say it is, I can say it isn't? It's like calling a Subaru Brat a truck. Its got 4 wheels and a bed, but it sure isn't a truck.
I don't need to play the "fanboy card" with you, as its clear you are merely have a lack of understanding of this situation. It just so happens that its a common condition with many fanbois
Equal opportunity troll.
Mainly I think it's because some players have a narrow view of what counts as "PvP." If you read some of the responses in this thread and others to the same issue, you will find that some players feel that only a very few games have had what they consider to be "true PvP." I think the list would consist of UA, Shadowbane, EVE, and the one open PvP server that DAoC has. Maybe not even all of those gamees. Basically, PvP has to be largely unrestricted geographically (save perhaps outside of a few small newbie areas or "safe zones"), non-consensual, non-level restricted, and unrestricted by faction. I feel a bit sorry for these hardliners, because the selection of products that cater to them is always going to be pretty slim.
Others feel that PvP only "counts" if all the participants are playing "regular" classes. That is everyone has to be playing the same classes that they do in the PvE game, and they have to be aquiring power (equipment, abilities) via the same basic mechanics. Other than that, it doesn't really matter if it occurs in special "instance zones" or who you can attack is restricted by faction. For those folks, WoW, DAoC, certain EQ servers (but not most of them), CoH, AA, and many other games have PvP. However LotRO doesn't, because the "monster classes" gain power and abilities via an entirely different set of mechanics from the "regular" classes.
Personally, I feel that those are pretty arbitrary distinctions. My personal definition of PvP is at least two player controlled characters fighting, when the intended outcome is to "kill" the opposing character. The important distinction is that both entities must be controlled by real players. If one character is controlled by the a computer, it's PvE (or PvM). For example, since their are no human controlled opponents for the PC monsters to fight in LotRO currently, the game won't have any PvP until some PvE characters get high enough to enter the Ettinmoors and challenge them. Obviously, the line between "dueling" and PvP is pretty thin if you accept my broad definition, but most games have different mechanics for being "killed" and defeated in a duel.
There are some gray areas to be sure. For example EQ experimented with a system where you could spawn yourself as a monster in the main game. I am not sure if this ever even made it off of the test server, my understanding was that is was too easily exploited and quickly canned. The major distinction between EQ's failed experiment and the PvP play in LotRO is that the monsters were not true characters in any sense of the word in EQ. They were not customizable, and had extremely limited skill sets. They were really in no comparable to a class.
In contrast, in LotRO each monster class has a very different set of abilities, and is highly customizable. The best analogue in another game would be rolling a level 20 character strictly for PvP in Guild Wars. The main difference is that in LotRO you can expand your monster's abilities either by playing a PvE chracter and gaining destiny points, or by playing the strict PvP toon directly. In GW you have to play PvE to unlock new abilities for your strict PvP toons. Another obvious distinction is that there is no set of "classes" that can only be used for PvP in GW. Although to be fair, their are many PvE abilities that cannot be used or function differently in PvP...so the distinction is thinner than many would care to admit.
I personally think the PvP system in LotRO is a stroke of brilliance. If gives players an entirely new type of play experience, some sort of wird hybrid of a raid and realm warfare. It also allows the designers to have one set of classes balanced purely around PvE and another balanced around PvP. Balancing classes around both forces designers to either split up abilities (ala Guildwars), or water down everything until it is neither overpowered in PvP or PVE. Others of course feel like its just a lame way for "carebears" to have a "PvP like" experience while still getting to run around holding hands and singing in the bright happy countryside.
But hey to each their own. To me lots of things qualify as PvP. To some folks, nothing since UO has. We'll have to agree to disagree. There's really no reason to let whatever stick other folks happen to have rammed up their pipes bother you.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.