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Is The U.S. A Christian Nation?
porgie
Member Posts: 1,516
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</OBAMA>
Comments
nevermind that 80% of the country celebrates the birth of Jesus..............
Of course, not 100% of those people are practicing Christians...but the internet is definitely not the best place to go when looking at demographics of people. A visit to this site would have you believing that the world is composed of about 2% Conservative Christians, a few agnostics, a bunch of atheists, a crap load of Australians, and some people from a country called Belgium that doesn't actually exist.
As to whether or not this is a "christian nation" Does it really matter? Whatever you want to call it, it doesn't change what it really is. The fact that most people in this country identify most closely with the Christian faith says a lot about the culture and values of our country, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the people who founded this country intended for it to be a "Christian nation" quite the contrary, it was important to them that it didn't become a theocratic state. And in response to that cartoon: Yeah, Thomas Jefferson was the ONLY founding father........I love it when people point to him and go "look, America isn't a Christian nation!!" while simultaneously ignoring anyone else who helped to found the country, it's rather convenient.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Nice comic.
I dunno what you're talking about, that we're mostly agnostic, athiest and Buddhist. 98% of Americans believe in a supernatural entity (throwing athiesm and agnosticism out) and 2/3 of those are Christians. So we are a Christian state in the sense that most of us are Christians, but we're not officially a Christian state in that our Constitution is supposed to keep God out of our government.
The predominant religious affiliation of the people of the US would be Judeo-Christian, yes, but as a whole, I don't think that we are a Christian nation.
It may be trite, and cliche, and all that, but at the end of the day, especially when the shit hits the fan, we're first and foremost, Americans. No need for any qualifying prefix, or suffix. Though there are those that would prefer we be divided up and neatly labeled for easier pigeonholing.
So I suppose the answer would be that we are a Christian Muslim Jewish Pagan Athiest Agnostic Satanist Polytheistic Nation. Hell, we even let the Scientologists stick around.
nevermind that 80% of the country celebrates the birth of Jesus..............
Of course, not 100% of those people are practicing Christians...but the internet is definitely not the best place to go when looking at demographics of people. A visit to this site would have you believing that the world is composed of about 2% Conservative Christians, a few agnostics, a bunch of atheists, a crap load of Australians, and some people from a country called Belgium that doesn't actually exist.
As to whether or not this is a "christian nation" Does it really matter? Whatever you want to call it, it doesn't change what it really is. The fact that most people in this country identify most closely with the Christian faith says a lot about the culture and values of our country, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the people who founded this country intended for it to be a "Christian nation" quite the contrary, it was important to them that it didn't become a theocratic state. And in response to that cartoon: Yeah, Thomas Jefferson was the ONLY founding father........I love it when people point to him and go "look, America isn't a Christian nation!!" while simultaneously ignoring anyone else who helped to found the country, it's rather convenient.
Would you like me to give you a nice list of founding fathers who shared Jefferson's view? I can do it.But what I find really funny is the way you downplay his significance on the birth of this nation.
Oh, and did you also know that at the time Jefferson was alive, he was credited with devising an evil plan to create a secular government by many evangelical Christians? I can quote you some primary source documents and letters on that if you'd like too. And you might respond by saying, "well sure, there's always a few people that thought that way", but it's actually quite the contrary. It was a popular sentiment amongst evangelicals. Not so much Anglican's at the time, but a heavily popular notion amongst the evangelical crew.
So this whole debates not such a new thing after all. Some people have always tried to keep this nation secular while others have tried to inject their religion into our government. Right from the very start.
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Dammit, people, can't we just be a Nation that appreciates a nice pint of stout, and a cute pair o' boobies?
Secularism now, Secularism tomorrah, and Secularism forevah!!!
He was a deist.
But even if he were christian, that doesn't invalidate his ideas on the seperation of church and state. I think the vast majority of christians understand and apprectiate this fundamental concept. It's only a few loonies that want shariah law protestant-style instituted.
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
lol thought there were mostly atheist on these forums..didnt want to attarct flamming from them
"The immensity of its size and the beauty of its ornate architecture and magnificent artwork can stop you dead in your tracks, causing you to gaze upward in absolute awe. For anyone who wonders whether God was truly significant in the formation of our nation’s government, a visit to the Rotunda of the U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C., is an excellent place to begin your investigation."
at one point I had an email showing pictures of all the landmarks listed in this article... but I deleted it.
Also im not saying Jackson was a founding father, but merely expressing the views of that era upon christianity. Hasn't anyone noticed more and more people are leaving from biblical values? I mean Im not old fashioned or anything and don't plan to live like a 100 years ago but wasn't our nation continuously rising among the worlds countries as a super power, but now it seems it is slowly declining although it is still the worlds only super power.
nevermind that 80% of the country celebrates the birth of Jesus..............
Of course, not 100% of those people are practicing Christians...but the internet is definitely not the best place to go when looking at demographics of people. A visit to this site would have you believing that the world is composed of about 2% Conservative Christians, a few agnostics, a bunch of atheists, a crap load of Australians, and some people from a country called Belgium that doesn't actually exist.
As to whether or not this is a "christian nation" Does it really matter? Whatever you want to call it, it doesn't change what it really is. The fact that most people in this country identify most closely with the Christian faith says a lot about the culture and values of our country, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the people who founded this country intended for it to be a "Christian nation" quite the contrary, it was important to them that it didn't become a theocratic state. And in response to that cartoon: Yeah, Thomas Jefferson was the ONLY founding father........I love it when people point to him and go "look, America isn't a Christian nation!!" while simultaneously ignoring anyone else who helped to found the country, it's rather convenient.
Would you like me to give you a nice list of founding fathers who shared Jefferson's view? I can do it.But what I find really funny is the way you downplay his significance on the birth of this nation.
Oh, and did you also know that at the time Jefferson was alive, he was credited with devising an evil plan to create a secular government by many evangelical Christians? I can quote you some primary source documents and letters on that if you'd like too. And you might respond by saying, "well sure, there's always a few people that thought that way", but it's actually quite the contrary. It was a popular sentiment amongst evangelicals. Not so much Anglican's at the time, but a heavily popular notion amongst the evangelical crew.
So this whole debates not such a new thing after all. Some people have always tried to keep this nation secular while others have tried to inject their religion into our government. Right from the very start.
I didn't downplay his significant at all, I simply stated that he wasn't the only founding father..does that offend you? Am I wrong?
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Ah, yes, whatever happened to that plucky little cult, Christianity? Oh, that's right, they're 80% of the American people, and have taken over all three branches of government, country music, public schools, the bestseller list, and until recently, Katie Holmes. You know, Christians, I don't mind that you're part of a dress-up cult that hates sex and worships magic but the paranoia, that does scare me.
Did you know that the Missouri legislature recently felt the need to propose a resolution declaring Christianity Missouri's majority religion. No kidding. Really, you mean people aren't saying, "Gosh, I'd like to go to Missouri, but...to Jewish." In Savannah, recently, a children's book about a baby penguin who is raised by two male penguins - ahh! - was removed from the library for its homosexual overtones. Because you know penguins, in those tuxedos, with the dreamy eyes. Huge fags!
The Christian right are now officially the party of paranoia. Secularists are attacking Christmas! Gays are attacking marriage! Liberals are attacking values! White girls are being abducted at an alarming rate! You know, if you're going to be that paranoid all the time, just get high.
And the worst part is, the people bitching loudest about being persecuted for their Christianity aren't Christians at all. They're demagogues and conmen and scolds. And the only thing they worship is power. If you believe Jesus ever had a good word for war or torture or tax cuts for the rich, or raping the earth, or refusing water to dying migrants, then you might as well believe bunnies lay painted eggs.
And Jesus never said a word about gay marriage. He was much too busy hanging out with 12 guys. Now I know George Bush says Jesus Christ changed his heart. But believe me, Dick Cheney changed it back. The only thing Bush has in common with Jesus is they both went into their father's business and got crucified for it.
Thomas Jefferson called the type of Christian who trumpets his own belief in the divinity of Jesus rather than the morality of Jesus "pseudo-Christians." And that's who's running our country today. And since they thrive so much on turning water into "whining"—and get off on their endless pretend persecution, let's give them what they want. Let's go to the zoo, get some lions, and feed them Tom DeLay.
The most important part of reading is reading between the lines.
The biggest danger of mixing church and state can be seen throughout medaeval history in Europe. If the Church leaders have State power, then the kind of people you really don't want to be in power are the kind of people who try to lead the Church. The whole thing gets corrupt and does no favours for the Church or the State.
I don't think that in this regard America is a Christian nation - or perhaps I should say a Church nation. I think there's enough in the constitution to prevent such a horror.
What there is a tendency to happen is that there's a danger that people loose sight of what the law is for (certainly not specific to America) and start to use the law to give guidelines for morality. In a country with a democratically elected government, there is a need to pander to this majority, who in the case of America, seems to be Christians and often fundimentalist ones.
If you try to make State law the same as God's law, the next step is second guessing God on what the punishments should be. You set yourself up as judge in God's place. Essentially putting appointed judges into a similar position as fundimental religious terrorists (in so far as what they believe they are doing).
If Pyrite looks like this
Then yeah, you're right.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but I like to fancy myself as being occasionally good with the written word. And, on the days where I can remember where I left my pants, of moderately quick wit. But, I must admit, I am humbled and awed by the last couple of Pyrite's posts that I've read.
Of course, it is the internet, so who knows, it could be Bill Maher, harboring a secret penchant for religious and political discourse on MMORPG forums.
If Pyrite looks like this
Then yeah, you're right.
Bah! Please tell me that Pyrite just plagiarises a little bit here and there....
Ah no! That's disappointing
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American