Carebear was originally 'coined' back in early EQ. The PvP'rs on the Zek servers started refering to those on the non-pvp servers as playing on a 'carebear server'.
I personally would agree with the OP with:
Carebear: Any player in pvp enviroment who intentionally kills grey cons(who offer no challenge) and intentionally runs away when challenged by someone close to or equal that Carebears level. These guys are the ultimate Carebear. They only know how to gank lowbies. They really do not have skills because how can the skill be tested if they run away from a opponent who offers them a challenge.
I would further this as declaring a 'hardcore PvP'er" as:
Hardcore PvP're: Any player in pvp enviroment who intentionally seeks out and kills yellow-red cons and often succeeds due to skills and abilities being mastered. Never runs away ( unless to gain strategic advantage ) from someone equal or higher level.
Anyone using the term "carebear" should get shot. Ingame offcourse .
I have like 1-2 hours of playtime a day and the last thing I need, when playing an MMO like WoW, is some schmuck killing me and camping my corpse out of sheer boredom. So I tend to lean towards PvE over PvP (Except for weekends, where I have a bit more time on my hands). From what I've heard and read, that would make me a carebear? I don't have the time to PvE all day and then go kill players in the evening. I do my PvE when I get home from work, after cooking dinner and doing some cleaning.
Let me tell you this: Better to be a carebear than a no-lifer. Get a clue.
I've seen a lot of people have mixed reactions about this. Here is the most popular thing I have witnessed.
Person logs into game, PVP with other people and wins every fight, someone finally kills them, they lose an item special to them, they go carebear from that minute on and demand game balance to help them win again.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Players who prefer PvE or other non-confrontational styles of play are often referred to by the derogatory term Carebears. This is a reference to the popular 80's American toy series and cartoon show the Care Bears, which emphasized "caring and sharing" rather than violence.
The term "Carebear" originated in the online game Ultima Online when it referred to a method of dealing with particularly violent playing styles. The joke originally started on the Crossroads of Britannia message board where there were two large groups of roleplayers, one from Chesapeake and the other from the Lake Superior server. The latter were more into PvP and the former a more peaceful style of roleplaying. The Chesapeake group referred to the LS group as the "biker gang" and the "Carebear" term was put on the Chesapeake group. One night, the Chesapeake group invaded Silk's Tavern on Lake Superior by creating throwaway characters with names from the original TV show and "attacked" the assorted group of people roleplaying at the tavern. The attackers used hugs and "Carebear Stares!" to cuddle up with the LS group - frustrating them greatly in the middle of a large melee with other PvP groups.
The real start of this came when a PK guild, KOC, repeatedly attacked the non-violent roleplaying sessions of a group on the Chesapeake server at their tavern. Elawyn of Yew, one of the roleplayers, initiated a policy of not fighting back and carrying no items to steal, thus giving no satisfaction to the grievers. This later escalated to creating an entire set of new characters carrying low level daggers that could not be stolen but which were poisoned by a master poisoner. At the height of this action, the roleplayers waylaid the leader of KOC, mobbing him with more low level characters than he could kill and repeatedly stabbing him til he died. His castle keys were looted from his corpse, copies made and then handed out to every "anti-PK" guild on the server. This resulted in pitched battles for control of KOC's castle which they ultimately were forced to abandon.
We have a real anti-carebear player here. Why don't we have a term for people like this? That think PvE sucks outright and the only reason to play anything multiplayer is PvP. This is the type of guy who was there to see the term come out and used it constantly.
There is a term for people like me- I belive it is called "correct." : P ... But seriously; I never said "PvE sucks outright." I say that the new line of games that put all of their emphasis on it; and offer PvP only as a segregated, instanced, heavily regulated, side facet of the game- suck outright.
And- You're overlooking the inherent PvP nature of any kind of "game" or form of player vs. player entertainment throughout mankind's history.
Games like poker, chess, monopoly, any kind of sport, etc. The MMORPG PvE centric market may have grown to millions of suckers; errr gamers- but Im telling you; these people don't know the true potential of the genre- or for that matter the true purpose for creating a massive multiplayer environtment... (i'll give you a hint; it's not to make a glorified 3D chat client.) The majority of people who are in the market as a customer now; have less than 5 years in. And it's not a slight majority; it's well over 80% of the entire market.
You show them what refined and well thought out MMO PvP gaming has to offer; and I swear to god they'll turn on the core carebears (who've been clinging to their niche dominance since their victory over ultima online) overnight. It's human nature to want to compete, struggle, and fight with other humans.
Damn it where was I going with this; this was supposed to be short. Ah well I'm just going to abruptly stop as this post will likely just be deleted after some carebear reports it; or one of the biased moderators stumbles across it.
Oh yeah- PvE centric MMORPGs have 5 good years left. After that; they're going the way of Beta MAX. Enjoy carebears.
How pathetic. They allow cursing. They allow 13 year olds on the site to maximize their ad dollars. Then when you post something with an F-bomb or two in over a full type written page of text; it automatically becomes a "profanity laced rant" because some dickhole who doesn't have the intelligence to respond is quicker to hit the "report" button. What's worse is these obviously biased moderators; many of whom are probably newbies to the genre. Doubt the majority of them have more than 6 years in; and have no clue what the drive is behind the existence for the genre; no understanding of the passion; no grasp of the struggle that has been going on since year one- and only serve as lapdogs for the guy who owns this site so he can continue to make bedfellows with the shlock they call MMORPGs now a days in the name of the almighty dollar.
Dude, I saw your post that was deleted, it was without a doubt a "profanity laced rant". Not that I disagree or agree with it, but lets call a spade a spade here. And if you knew 13 year olds were viewing this site one would expect that would have been at least somewhat of a factor in the way you express yourself or you get deleted. It also reaked of immaturity.
I am passionate about PVP, but I never gank a solo player that is well below my level, what is the point? I dont post "profanity laced rants" either, again what is the point?
Anyone that complains about consentually PVP just wants to Rape people, in a PVP sense of course.
At around the year 2000 many griefers and Pkers termed those mmo players that did not want to pvp carebears. As someone who pvps and enjoys it i want to bring the definition carebear down to its proper due. First as a pvper I like killing other players and other players like doing so to me. There is something i like above all else. a Equal or balanced fight. Where it heavily depends on skill rather than given gear or level. Now as someone who has killed a many pvpers and have been killed numerous times I give you the definition of Carebear. Carebear: Any player in pvp enviroment who intentionally kills grey cons(who offer no challenge) and intentionally runs away when challenged by someone close to or equal that Carebears level. These guys are the ultimate Carebear. They only know how to gank lowbies. They really do not have skills because how can the skill be tested if they run away from a opponent who offers them a challenge. Just so you know, Greifers and Gankers are the opitomy of pvp. They suck, they know they really are nothing more than pathetic excuses for a mmo character.
Enjoy!
To answer the OP's inquiry...
I am an adult.
I have patience.
I have virtue.
I know the definition of chivalry.
I try NOT to "tag" other people with silly, immature names. As stated before, I'm an adult.
The term "care bear" has no meaning for me other than what it was originally intended, as a cartoon or doll for my 3 year old daughter.
I am not intimidated by this slang as it has no bearing on what I prefer to practice in MMO's.
Don't you think there are those out there that have some poor self-esteem? Calling them some type of immature 10 year old name of a cartoon character just doesn't "get it done..."
Show some respect out there, God knows there are way too many with personal problems that play all types of MMO's. Let's try to grow up a bit, shall we? Tagging people doesn't help improve any game, nor does it elevate anyone's status or gaming experience.
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
At around the year 2000 many griefers and Pkers termed those mmo players that did not want to pvp carebears. As someone who pvps and enjoys it i want to bring the definition carebear down to its proper due. First as a pvper I like killing other players and other players like doing so to me. There is something i like above all else. a Equal or balanced fight. Where it heavily depends on skill rather than given gear or level. Now as someone who has killed a many pvpers and have been killed numerous times I give you the definition of Carebear. Carebear: Any player in pvp enviroment who intentionally kills grey cons(who offer no challenge) and intentionally runs away when challenged by someone close to or equal that Carebears level. These guys are the ultimate Carebear. They only know how to gank lowbies. They really do not have skills because how can the skill be tested if they run away from a opponent who offers them a challenge. Just so you know, Greifers and Gankers are the opitomy of pvp. They suck, they know they really are nothing more than pathetic excuses for a mmo character.
Enjoy!
Carebear (pronounced "God I'm a loser) - a term used by people who have absolutely no life in reality so they put all their time towards MMO games just so they can grief on people who want to just have fun and play a game for a few hours to blow off steam from having jobs, relationship, anything of value, etc. so they can have some kind of delusional achievement in their waste of a life. Common ways of recognizing the people the people that use this term are as follows:
1) large amounts of crying when anyone dares to do something in a way other than they dictate.
2) Any signs of them having sex with dolls, furniture, or animals because they have no way of actually communicating with slightly normal people let alone attracting the opposite sex.
3) large lack of hygene and language skills.
How to avoid the people that use this term:
1) Get off the internet as this is their only way of communicating with the real world.
If you are to somehow come in contact with one of these people immediately head for the nearest source of sunlight as they are more allergic to it than Vampires. Do not stay in the area as they people are unbelievable stupid and could easily lower your IQ through only a few minutes of conversation.
it is of note that a small portion of uneducated mmo pvp players use the ripped term "carebear" to describe anyone not conforming to their values and beliefs, but hey, we havent got any lemmings in the mmo world do we?
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
I'm a carebear (PVE) who likes to "stealth" grief, meaning I like to pull trains on folks, then hide out at the zone line and watch what happens. Never could make it through South Karanas in EQ without firing an arrow at an ogre and pulling it to the zone line right before I zoned.
Now I think griefing should be punished, especially if it's overt and persistent. But the occasional train makes for lots of fun and laughs.
There is no such thing as carebear. ppl made that up just so they dont get called carebear themselves but 99% of us feel we have to call others carebear just so we look cool. While we are really carebear since we feel insecure about ourselves. Carebear R us.
carebears is a term to describe a childrens show. it is of note that a small portion of uneducated mmo pvp players use the ripped term "carebear" to describe anyone not conforming to their values and beliefs, but hey, we havent got any lemmings in the mmo world do we?
Yep, I do agree. One must also take into consideration the "FPSers Effect" Too many console games where you go around blowing the snot outta Arabs, Nazis, and Japanese.
.....Sheesh....
Teens that get bored after 1 week playing on an MMO...
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
So very true, im proud to be a carebear. Atm im stuck playing free pvp games because there isnt anything out atm good for pve im interested in. can pvp but I dont get all emo about it and call people noobs and etc, I always play fair and only do it for the challenge and fun factor. If I had it my way id just pvp my friends only because people take it way to seriously. I am not compeitive I could care less if the person beats me I will congratulate them and be on my way back to the enjoyment of the game.
Lets stop the carebear nonsense because us carebears are usually the ones who are at peace with themselves, so im going to say the problem isnt the players it isnt the games it is within you, but I will say at the moment the pve in mmorpgs arent all that great.
There do seem to be a variety of views on what a "carebear" is.
I used to play a fairly hard-core, open PvP MUD, predating UO. The term that was used there was "huggies".
Huggies were those who wanted different things from the game than the fighters. They were more about the social aspect of the game, and hanging out in the cities, making friends, running shops, getting involved with politics etc. and would mostly try to avoid fights.
The game actually provided pretty well for both groups, and personally, probably like many players, I enjoyed both sides of the game.
I feel a lot of sympathy for those who shout about how "carebears" have ruined the genre. MMORPGs need not necessarily be all about fighting other players, but without conflict, they can get pretty dull fast. The fighting elements of the game effect all the other aspects of the game. Without conflict, city politics were fairly pointless and the need for great crafters and shops is less.
Having said that, I think that actually, what has hurt the genre is just as much poor game mechanics and immature gankers as it is the "carebears" who complain about getting ganked and looted.
Originally, role-playing games were designed to be PvE - or at least a small group of adventurers and a game master creating a story together. Under such circumstances, character development works very well, and getting great equipment and lots of hit-points allows the players to fight bigger and scarier creatures and face slightly different challenges.
Translating this model into a massive multiplayer environment is very difficult and loses much of what was special about the table-top games. It works to some extent in games such as Diablo or Neverwinter, where small groups join up for one campaign, but the style of game isn't quite so suitable when creating a world.
In a world there is bound to be conflict, and MUDs and early MMOs embraced this with some degree of success. This was a big change in the style of RPGs, and while still being role-play, it was on a much larger scale than the original role-play games.
The big problem was in the level system which was still present from earlier forms of the role-playing game. This meant that high level characters were unrealistically more powerful than new characters, so there was no competition in a fight. Unlike a multiplayer FPS where a good headshot means that even the newest player has a chance of overcoming an experienced player, the MMORPGs have an imbalance that allows a high level character to be untouchable.
Of course, nobody wants to be faced with unbeatable opposition in a game and you certainly can't trust everyone to be as honourable as some of the people in this thread appear to be. The developers have rarely dealt with this problem, and so arise those that complain about it, and justifiably so. Not really fair to call such people "carebears" although that is often where the term is used in the most vindictive way.
Generally what developers have done to deal with such complaints is to either remove PvP in games or make it optional in some way. This can be effective to some degree, and it removes the serious ganker problem, but at the loss of many of the benefits of an open PvP world.
In my opinion, such a solution is a band-aid and really doesn't get to the root of the issue. What needs to be fixed is the game mechanics that create such huge differences between characters' abilities or to introduce a system that punishes excessive ganking. A high level player should have more abilities, but why would they have significantly more hit points?
Not everyone wants to fight in a game world, and that's really how it should be, but to have what is essentially a law of physics protecting you, strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. There are other ways of creating safe areas.
The problem is that so many people ignorantly try to make a division between crafting and combat; in any good game both of them involve direct competition with other players, the only difference is the pace.
Likewise, "carebears" are those players and developers that ignorantly try to remove as much competition from a game as possible. In combat this generally results in restrictions on players being able to engage or compete directly with each other, thus reducing the important element of competition, the purpose of a multiplayer game. In much the same way, carebears that focus on crafting believe in infinite resources, reducing the necessity to compete with others. Since games are competitions, both of these carebear ideals lessen the competition and life of the game itself. The only way to bandage such a distressed game is to disguise it with incredible graphics and fill it up with new content all the time - truly a waste of resources, unless the main intent is making money rather than making a great game.
The highest quality gameplay in MMOGs involves the highest levels of direct competition in all aspects, socially, economically and in warfare.
Because most computer games are designed for kids, you don't see many MMOGs with high quality gameplay.
1. Players that plays online because they enjoy the competition. Carebears were a sub-group of these. (1984 to about 2000)
Actually the term Carebear was used in early mud, ODs, MPOG as well as MOGs for the same thing. But before going into that we first have to examine why it became a derogatory term because it originaly was not.
There are three types of players and a subclass of each.
1. Players that plays online because they enjoy the competition. Carebears were a sub-group of these. (1984 to about 2000) These groups proudly wear the name PVPers.
2. Players that plays online simply to interact with the community, using the game as a replacement for the old sewing bee or chat room. This is the group gets falsely labeled carebears since 2000.
3. Players that play for the sole reason of ruining the game for others. These, GrieferBears, are not interested in competition like the first group nor are they interested in building a community like the second. Yes they try and don the badge of PVPer to bring legitimacy to their play style but not being able to they label all other types as carebears because they don’t actually know what a real carebear player is.
What is a real carebear, that’s easy.
A real Carebear is not afraid to fight if there is a need, but will not fight if there is no reason to. This is not to say that they will avoid fight the simply do not provoke unnecessary fights or unbalanced ones.
Here is a real example: A player comes upon a battle between two players.
A player 1 type: Carebear will continue on to an open unengaged target (enemy) because there is no need to interrupt or unbalance the current fight. A non-carebear PVPer may also bypass the fight but more likely they will examine the enemy and their ally. If the combatants are balanced they will continue on but not before taking one (1) shot at the enemy just for good measure. They will not steal the kill though. If it is unbalanced in favor of the ally they will just bypass looking for an open target. If unbalanced in favor of the enemy they will jump to the aid of the ally and this is the difference between a carebear PVPer and a non, the Carebear will leave the battle to its natural end not because they don’t want to fight but because they will not upset the balance.
A player 2 type: Will automatically begin healing and buffing the ally and run if the enemy engages. They are there to aid and usually will run through the battle healing and buffing all but never engaging the enemy. This is because they are more interested in helping the community than being self serving.
A player 3 type: Will come up on the battle and wait till one of the combatants are about to die and will quickly steal the kill then while the other is heavily damaged kill them friend or for matters not for they are only interested in easy kills. They will then go out looking for more easy kills avoiding all unengaged enemy or engaged ones they could have to put up a fight with.
One last thing to remember, when the Term carebear was first framed it was actually a badge of honor, to be labeled a carebear meant that you were though of like a knight. Carebears protect the innocent, battle evil and never ever loose when they do fight.
Yes I was labled a Carebear and have worn it proudly for over 10 years, I am also one of the Assaults/medics in BF2 and am typically in the top 4 on any server (and have the screens to prove it). If you want to annoy me calling me a carebear will not do it as I wear the badge of being a true PVPer proudly. No simply be a type 3 player and call yourself a PVPer, that will annoy me and any other real PVPer. You might as well be an american idol reject and call you self a singer, if you a type 3 player you are not and never will be a PVPer, the best you can hope for is to be labled a Pker instead of simply a lame griefer.
1. Players that plays online because they enjoy the competition. Carebears were a sub-group of these. (1984 to about 2000)
Actually the term Carebear was used in early mud, ODs, MPOG as well as MOGs for the same thing. But before going into that we first have to examine why it became a derogatory term because it originaly was not.
There are three types of players and a subclass of each. 1. Players that plays online because they enjoy the competition. Carebears were a sub-group of these. (1984 to about 2000) These groups proudly wear the name PVPers.
2. Players that plays online simply to interact with the community, using the game as a replacement for the old sewing bee or chat room. This is the group gets falsely labeled carebears since 2000.
3. Players that play for the sole reason of ruining the game for others. These, GrieferBears, are not interested in competition like the first group nor are they interested in building a community like the second. Yes they try and don the badge of PVPer to bring legitimacy to their play style but not being able to they label all other types as carebears because they don’t actually know what a real carebear player is.
What is a real carebear, that’s easy. A real Carebear is not afraid to fight if there is a need, but will not fight if there is no reason to. This is not to say that they will avoid fight the simply do not provoke unnecessary fights or unbalanced ones.
Here is a real example: A player comes upon a battle between two players.
A player 1 type: Carebear will continue on to an open unengaged target (enemy) because there is no need to interrupt or unbalance the current fight. A non-carebear PVPer may also bypass the fight but more likely they will examine the enemy and their ally. If the combatants are balanced they will continue on but not before taking one (1) shot at the enemy just for good measure. They will not steal the kill though. If it is unbalanced in favor of the ally they will just bypass looking for an open target. If unbalanced in favor of the enemy they will jump to the aid of the ally and this is the difference between a carebear PVPer and a non, the Carebear will leave the battle to its natural end not because they don’t want to fight but because they will not upset the balance.
A player 2 type: Will automatically begin healing and buffing the ally and run if the enemy engages. They are there to aid and usually will run through the battle healing and buffing all but never engaging the enemy. This is because they are more interested in helping the community than being self serving.
A player 3 type: Will come up on the battle and wait till one of the combatants are about to die and will quickly steal the kill then while the other is heavily damaged kill them friend or for matters not for they are only interested in easy kills. They will then go out looking for more easy kills avoiding all unengaged enemy or engaged ones they could have to put up a fight with.
One last thing to remember, when the Term carebear was first framed it was actually a badge of honor, to be labeled a carebear meant that you were though of like a knight. Carebears protect the innocent, battle evil and never ever loose when they do fight.
Yes I was labled a Carebear and have worn it proudly for over 10 years, I am also one of the Assaults/medics in BF2 and am typically in the top 4 on any server (and have the screens to prove it). If you want to annoy me calling me a carebear will not do it as I wear the badge of being a true PVPer proudly. No simply be a type 3 player and call yourself a PVPer, that will annoy me and any other real PVPer. You might as well be an american idol reject and call you self a singer, if you a type 3 player you are not and never will be a PVPer, the best you can hope for is to be labled a Pker instead of simply a lame griefer.
Player 3 type: Simply put, COWARDS... depending on the battle, for example, 1vs1 I will run screen and wait for those idiots that think they can unbalance the fight, and I will hunt them obsessively. Now if it's a free for all fight, no holds barred..
Comments
Carebear was originally 'coined' back in early EQ. The PvP'rs on the Zek servers started refering to those on the non-pvp servers as playing on a 'carebear server'.
I personally would agree with the OP with:
Carebear: Any player in pvp enviroment who intentionally kills grey cons(who offer no challenge) and intentionally runs away when challenged by someone close to or equal that Carebears level. These guys are the ultimate Carebear. They only know how to gank lowbies. They really do not have skills because how can the skill be tested if they run away from a opponent who offers them a challenge.
I would further this as declaring a 'hardcore PvP'er" as:
Hardcore PvP're: Any player in pvp enviroment who intentionally seeks out and kills yellow-red cons and often succeeds due to skills and abilities being mastered. Never runs away ( unless to gain strategic advantage ) from someone equal or higher level.
.
Palazious <The Vindicators> Darkfall
Palazious r40, rr45 SW War
Palazious 50 Pirate PoTBS
Palazious 35 Sorcerer Vanguard
Palazious 75 wizard EQ
Paladori 50 Champion LOTRO
Poppa Reaver bugged at rank15
Anyone using the term "carebear" should get shot. Ingame offcourse
.
I have like 1-2 hours of playtime a day and the last thing I need, when playing an MMO like WoW, is some schmuck killing me and camping my corpse out of sheer boredom. So I tend to lean towards PvE over PvP (Except for weekends, where I have a bit more time on my hands). From what I've heard and read, that would make me a carebear? I don't have the time to PvE all day and then go kill players in the evening. I do my PvE when I get home from work, after cooking dinner and doing some cleaning.
Let me tell you this: Better to be a carebear than a no-lifer. Get a clue.
Person logs into game, PVP with other people and wins every fight, someone finally kills them, they lose an item special to them, they go carebear from that minute on and demand game balance to help them win again.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Players who prefer PvE or other non-confrontational styles of play are often referred to by the derogatory term Carebears. This is a reference to the popular 80's American toy series and cartoon show the Care Bears, which emphasized "caring and sharing" rather than violence.
The term "Carebear" originated in the online game Ultima Online when it referred to a method of dealing with particularly violent playing styles. The joke originally started on the Crossroads of Britannia message board where there were two large groups of roleplayers, one from Chesapeake and the other from the Lake Superior server. The latter were more into PvP and the former a more peaceful style of roleplaying. The Chesapeake group referred to the LS group as the "biker gang" and the "Carebear" term was put on the Chesapeake group. One night, the Chesapeake group invaded Silk's Tavern on Lake Superior by creating throwaway characters with names from the original TV show and "attacked" the assorted group of people roleplaying at the tavern. The attackers used hugs and "Carebear Stares!" to cuddle up with the LS group - frustrating them greatly in the middle of a large melee with other PvP groups.
The real start of this came when a PK guild, KOC, repeatedly attacked the non-violent roleplaying sessions of a group on the Chesapeake server at their tavern. Elawyn of Yew, one of the roleplayers, initiated a policy of not fighting back and carrying no items to steal, thus giving no satisfaction to the grievers. This later escalated to creating an entire set of new characters carrying low level daggers that could not be stolen but which were poisoned by a master poisoner. At the height of this action, the roleplayers waylaid the leader of KOC, mobbing him with more low level characters than he could kill and repeatedly stabbing him til he died. His castle keys were looted from his corpse, copies made and then handed out to every "anti-PK" guild on the server. This resulted in pitched battles for control of KOC's castle which they ultimately were forced to abandon.
(wiki-link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player )
and thats pretty much how it happened back then
ahh the good old UO days, how I miss them sometimes...
- von
There is a term for people like me- I belive it is called "correct." : P ... But seriously; I never said "PvE sucks outright." I say that the new line of games that put all of their emphasis on it; and offer PvP only as a segregated, instanced, heavily regulated, side facet of the game- suck outright.
And- You're overlooking the inherent PvP nature of any kind of "game" or form of player vs. player entertainment throughout mankind's history.
Games like poker, chess, monopoly, any kind of sport, etc. The MMORPG PvE centric market may have grown to millions of suckers; errr gamers- but Im telling you; these people don't know the true potential of the genre- or for that matter the true purpose for creating a massive multiplayer environtment... (i'll give you a hint; it's not to make a glorified 3D chat client.) The majority of people who are in the market as a customer now; have less than 5 years in. And it's not a slight majority; it's well over 80% of the entire market.
You show them what refined and well thought out MMO PvP gaming has to offer; and I swear to god they'll turn on the core carebears (who've been clinging to their niche dominance since their victory over ultima online) overnight. It's human nature to want to compete, struggle, and fight with other humans.
Damn it where was I going with this; this was supposed to be short. Ah well I'm just going to abruptly stop as this post will likely just be deleted after some carebear reports it; or one of the biased moderators stumbles across it.
Oh yeah- PvE centric MMORPGs have 5 good years left. After that; they're going the way of Beta MAX. Enjoy carebears.
Dude, I saw your post that was deleted, it was without a doubt a "profanity laced rant". Not that I disagree or agree with it, but lets call a spade a spade here. And if you knew 13 year olds were viewing this site one would expect that would have been at least somewhat of a factor in the way you express yourself or you get deleted.
I am passionate about PVP, but I never gank a solo player that is well below my level, what is the point? I dont post "profanity laced rants" either, again what is the point?
Anyone that complains about consentually PVP just wants to Rape people, in a PVP sense of course.
I am an adult.
I have patience.
I have virtue.
I know the definition of chivalry.
I try NOT to "tag" other people with silly, immature names. As stated before, I'm an adult.
The term "care bear" has no meaning for me other than what it was originally intended, as a cartoon or doll for my 3 year old daughter.
I am not intimidated by this slang as it has no bearing on what I prefer to practice in MMO's.
Don't you think there are those out there that have some poor self-esteem? Calling them some type of immature 10 year old name of a cartoon character just doesn't "get it done..."
Show some respect out there, God knows there are way too many with personal problems that play all types of MMO's. Let's try to grow up a bit, shall we? Tagging people doesn't help improve any game, nor does it elevate anyone's status or gaming experience.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
1) large amounts of crying when anyone dares to do something in a way other than they dictate.
2) Any signs of them having sex with dolls, furniture, or animals because they have no way of actually communicating with slightly normal people let alone attracting the opposite sex.
3) large lack of hygene and language skills.
How to avoid the people that use this term:
1) Get off the internet as this is their only way of communicating with the real world.
If you are to somehow come in contact with one of these people immediately head for the nearest source of sunlight as they are more allergic to it than Vampires. Do not stay in the area as they people are unbelievable stupid and could easily lower your IQ through only a few minutes of conversation.
member of imminst.org
carebears is a term to describe a childrens show.
it is of note that a small portion of uneducated mmo pvp players use the ripped term "carebear" to describe anyone not conforming to their values and beliefs, but hey, we havent got any lemmings in the mmo world do we?
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
I'm a carebear (PVE) who likes to "stealth" grief, meaning I like to pull trains on folks, then hide out at the zone line and watch what happens. Never could make it through South Karanas in EQ without firing an arrow at an ogre and pulling it to the zone line right before I zoned.
Now I think griefing should be punished, especially if it's overt and persistent. But the occasional train makes for lots of fun and laughs.
There is no such thing as carebear. ppl made that up just so they dont get called carebear themselves but 99% of us feel we have to call others carebear just so we look cool. While we are really carebear since we feel insecure about ourselves. Carebear R us.
.....Sheesh....
Teens that get bored after 1 week playing on an MMO...
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
So very true, im proud to be a carebear. Atm im stuck playing free pvp games because there isnt anything out atm good for pve im interested in. can pvp but I dont get all emo about it and call people noobs and etc, I always play fair and only do it for the challenge and fun factor. If I had it my way id just pvp my friends only because people take it way to seriously. I am not compeitive I could care less if the person beats me I will congratulate them and be on my way back to the enjoyment of the game.
Lets stop the carebear nonsense because us carebears are usually the ones who are at peace with themselves, so im going to say the problem isnt the players it isnt the games it is within you, but I will say at the moment the pve in mmorpgs arent all that great.
I used to play a fairly hard-core, open PvP MUD, predating UO. The term that was used there was "huggies".
Huggies were those who wanted different things from the game than the fighters. They were more about the social aspect of the game, and hanging out in the cities, making friends, running shops, getting involved with politics etc. and would mostly try to avoid fights.
The game actually provided pretty well for both groups, and personally, probably like many players, I enjoyed both sides of the game.
I feel a lot of sympathy for those who shout about how "carebears" have ruined the genre. MMORPGs need not necessarily be all about fighting other players, but without conflict, they can get pretty dull fast. The fighting elements of the game effect all the other aspects of the game. Without conflict, city politics were fairly pointless and the need for great crafters and shops is less.
Having said that, I think that actually, what has hurt the genre is just as much poor game mechanics and immature gankers as it is the "carebears" who complain about getting ganked and looted.
Originally, role-playing games were designed to be PvE - or at least a small group of adventurers and a game master creating a story together. Under such circumstances, character development works very well, and getting great equipment and lots of hit-points allows the players to fight bigger and scarier creatures and face slightly different challenges.
Translating this model into a massive multiplayer environment is very difficult and loses much of what was special about the table-top games. It works to some extent in games such as Diablo or Neverwinter, where small groups join up for one campaign, but the style of game isn't quite so suitable when creating a world.
In a world there is bound to be conflict, and MUDs and early MMOs embraced this with some degree of success. This was a big change in the style of RPGs, and while still being role-play, it was on a much larger scale than the original role-play games.
The big problem was in the level system which was still present from earlier forms of the role-playing game. This meant that high level characters were unrealistically more powerful than new characters, so there was no competition in a fight. Unlike a multiplayer FPS where a good headshot means that even the newest player has a chance of overcoming an experienced player, the MMORPGs have an imbalance that allows a high level character to be untouchable.
Of course, nobody wants to be faced with unbeatable opposition in a game and you certainly can't trust everyone to be as honourable as some of the people in this thread appear to be. The developers have rarely dealt with this problem, and so arise those that complain about it, and justifiably so. Not really fair to call such people "carebears" although that is often where the term is used in the most vindictive way.
Generally what developers have done to deal with such complaints is to either remove PvP in games or make it optional in some way. This can be effective to some degree, and it removes the serious ganker problem, but at the loss of many of the benefits of an open PvP world.
In my opinion, such a solution is a band-aid and really doesn't get to the root of the issue. What needs to be fixed is the game mechanics that create such huge differences between characters' abilities or to introduce a system that punishes excessive ganking. A high level player should have more abilities, but why would they have significantly more hit points?
Not everyone wants to fight in a game world, and that's really how it should be, but to have what is essentially a law of physics protecting you, strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. There are other ways of creating safe areas.
The problem is that so many people ignorantly try to make a division between crafting and combat; in any good game both of them involve direct competition with other players, the only difference is the pace.
Likewise, "carebears" are those players and developers that ignorantly try to remove as much competition from a game as possible. In combat this generally results in restrictions on players being able to engage or compete directly with each other, thus reducing the important element of competition, the purpose of a multiplayer game. In much the same way, carebears that focus on crafting believe in infinite resources, reducing the necessity to compete with others. Since games are competitions, both of these carebear ideals lessen the competition and life of the game itself. The only way to bandage such a distressed game is to disguise it with incredible graphics and fill it up with new content all the time - truly a waste of resources, unless the main intent is making money rather than making a great game.
The highest quality gameplay in MMOGs involves the highest levels of direct competition in all aspects, socially, economically and in warfare.
Because most computer games are designed for kids, you don't see many MMOGs with high quality gameplay.
If you are not a carebear, try Roma Victor.
1. Players that plays online because they enjoy the competition. Carebears were a sub-group of these. (1984 to about 2000)
Actually the term Carebear was used in early mud, ODs, MPOG as well as MOGs for the same thing. But before going into that we first have to examine why it became a derogatory term because it originaly was not.
There are three types of players and a subclass of each.
1. Players that plays online because they enjoy the competition. Carebears were a sub-group of these. (1984 to about 2000) These groups proudly wear the name PVPers.
2. Players that plays online simply to interact with the community, using the game as a replacement for the old sewing bee or chat room. This is the group gets falsely labeled carebears since 2000.
3. Players that play for the sole reason of ruining the game for others. These, GrieferBears, are not interested in competition like the first group nor are they interested in building a community like the second. Yes they try and don the badge of PVPer to bring legitimacy to their play style but not being able to they label all other types as carebears because they don’t actually know what a real carebear player is.
What is a real carebear, that’s easy.
A real Carebear is not afraid to fight if there is a need, but will not fight if there is no reason to. This is not to say that they will avoid fight the simply do not provoke unnecessary fights or unbalanced ones.
Here is a real example: A player comes upon a battle between two players.
A player 1 type: Carebear will continue on to an open unengaged target (enemy) because there is no need to interrupt or unbalance the current fight. A non-carebear PVPer may also bypass the fight but more likely they will examine the enemy and their ally. If the combatants are balanced they will continue on but not before taking one (1) shot at the enemy just for good measure. They will not steal the kill though. If it is unbalanced in favor of the ally they will just bypass looking for an open target. If unbalanced in favor of the enemy they will jump to the aid of the ally and this is the difference between a carebear PVPer and a non, the Carebear will leave the battle to its natural end not because they don’t want to fight but because they will not upset the balance.
A player 2 type: Will automatically begin healing and buffing the ally and run if the enemy engages. They are there to aid and usually will run through the battle healing and buffing all but never engaging the enemy. This is because they are more interested in helping the community than being self serving.
A player 3 type: Will come up on the battle and wait till one of the combatants are about to die and will quickly steal the kill then while the other is heavily damaged kill them friend or for matters not for they are only interested in easy kills. They will then go out looking for more easy kills avoiding all unengaged enemy or engaged ones they could have to put up a fight with.
One last thing to remember, when the Term carebear was first framed it was actually a badge of honor, to be labeled a carebear meant that you were though of like a knight. Carebears protect the innocent, battle evil and never ever loose when they do fight.
Yes I was labled a Carebear and have worn it proudly for over 10 years, I am also one of the Assaults/medics in BF2 and am typically in the top 4 on any server (and have the screens to prove it
). If you want to annoy me calling me a carebear will not do it as I wear the badge of being a true PVPer proudly. No simply be a type 3 player and call yourself a PVPer, that will annoy me and any other real PVPer. You might as well be an american idol reject and call you self a singer, if you a type 3 player you are not and never will be a PVPer, the best you can hope for is to be labled a Pker instead of simply a lame griefer.
An so it begins
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