solitaire is polished as well. is this the only thing that is important to you? come on, lotro is a prime example of a game that comes out fast, looks polished, creates nice screenshots (although its graphics when you play the game are not so good after all - low detail textures) and is backed up with many millions invested for marketing. credits go to the fact that is plays smoothly and hasnt got any major bugs but the game is very shallow and unbelievably small.
And yet, the game is selling very well, and getting good reviews. It's a nice change of pace. I think.
Oh, and yes-- polish matters. There's no reason to pay for potential when there are games out there that are stable, polished, and feel like living, breathing worlds. Why settle when you can get a much better overall experience for the same price?
i really cant understand how you liked lotro, especially when you come from eq.
Easily. Because I left EQ back in 2003 and moved on as a gamer. I used to spend as much time in Norrath per day as I spent at work. It was damn near a second job, and literally consumed most, if not all, of my social life for the 3+ years I played. Raids late into the night with me falling asleep at my keyboard, long, tedious camping of items, etc. Been there, done that. No desire to go through that nonsense again.
That was then. Now, I prefer my gaming in smaller bits, with more engaging worlds, storylines, and yes, polish. I don't have the patience anymore for long, tedious grinds like what I went through in EQ. Hence my attraction to games like CoH/V, WoW, and LOTR.
Hell, one of the first things that attracted me to CoH/V was the total lack of gear and loot. I could just sit back, relax, and play the game without worrying about any of that stuff. That I managed to find a fantastic guild back in closed beta that is still together today, and which keeps me in Paragon, was merely an added bonus.
With WoW, the grind is really only there if you want it. If you want a particular racial mount, or if you want the higher end dungeon armors and gear, then you play accordingly. If not, then you don't. It's entirely up to the player. And with LOTR, the overreaching storyline and setting of Middle Earth are very well done, with engaging gameplay.
Each of those games, in their own individual ways, allows me to come in, play for a few short hours at a time and accomplish things. Plus, unlike my time in EQ, I can still have a life. That's why I play them. I can come and go at will, playing whichever one strikes my fancy that day. I'm not stuck, like I was in EQ, spawn camping for days or weeks, or mindlessly grinding XP for weeks to level.
Turbine?? lol, these guys are clueless. they get the best IPs and make the most shallow games. they even produced a shallow official AD&D game. Ok they got good QA, but thats about it for Turbine.
Yeah, those clueless Turbine bastards. Making a game that is one of the fastest selling MMO's in a good long while, and which actually has an engaging storyline that draws the player in from the start. What on Earth were they thinking making that game?
Honestly, for anyone who's ever been curious about MMO's and who likes Tolkien, it's a damn fine introduction to the genre, and a living, thriving world in its own right. The whole environment feels alive, and like you're part of it. Turbine have done a hell of a job, and I hope the game endures for them. They deserve any success it brings them.
solitaire is polished as well. is this the only thing that is important to you? come on, lotro is a prime example of a game that comes out fast, looks polished, creates nice screenshots (although its graphics when you play the game are not so good after all - low detail textures) and is backed up with many millions invested for marketing. credits go to the fact that is plays smoothly and hasnt got any major bugs but the game is very shallow and unbelievably small.
And yet, the game is selling very well, and getting good reviews. It's a nice change of pace. I think.
Oh, and yes-- polish matters. There's no reason to pay for potential when there are games out there that are stable, polished, and feel like living, breathing worlds. Why settle when you can get a much better overall experience for the same price?
i really cant understand how you liked lotro, especially when you come from eq.
Easily. Because I left EQ back in 2003 and moved on as a gamer. I used to spend as much time in Norrath per day as I spent at work. It was damn near a second job, and literally consumed most, if not all, of my social life for the 3+ years I played. Raids late into the night with me falling asleep at my keyboard, long, tedious camping of items, etc. Been there, done that. No desire to go through that nonsense again.
That was then. Now, I prefer my gaming in smaller bits, with more engaging worlds, storylines, and yes, polish. I don't have the patience anymore for long, tedious grinds like what I went through in EQ. Hence my attraction to games like CoH/V, WoW, and LOTR.
Hell, one of the first things that attracted me to CoH/V was the total lack of gear and loot. I could just sit back, relax, and play the game without worrying about any of that stuff. That I managed to find a fantastic guild back in closed beta that is still together today, and which keeps me in Paragon, was merely an added bonus.
With WoW, the grind is really only there if you want it. If you want a particular racial mount, or if you want the higher end dungeon armors and gear, then you play accordingly. If not, then you don't. It's entirely up to the player. And with LOTR, the overreaching storyline and setting of Middle Earth are very well done, with engaging gameplay.
Each of those games, in their own individual ways, allows me to come in, play for a few short hours at a time and accomplish things. Plus, unlike my time in EQ, I can still have a life. That's why I play them. I can come and go at will, playing whichever one strikes my fancy that day. I'm not stuck, like I was in EQ, spawn camping for days or weeks, or mindlessly grinding XP for weeks to level.
Turbine?? lol, these guys are clueless. they get the best IPs and make the most shallow games. they even produced a shallow official AD&D game. Ok they got good QA, but thats about it for Turbine.
Yeah, those clueless Turbine bastards. Making a game that is one of the fastest selling MMO's in a good long while, and which actually has an engaging storyline that draws the player in from the start. What on Earth were they thinking making that game?
Honestly, for anyone who's ever been curious about MMO's and who likes Tolkien, it's a damn fine introduction to the genre, and a living, thriving world in its own right. The whole environment feels alive, and like you're part of it. Turbine have done a hell of a job, and I hope the game endures for them. They deserve any success it brings them.
Well I cannot disagree to anything you say, cause you are saying it right. I agree on everything you say about lotro. Its a game designed for the masses, it looks ok, its definately more polished than WoW. It is not engaging at all though, its world is not immersive at all. I played it during the early access and got bored with it very-very fast. Both the size and the mechanic of lotros world do not allow you to be immersed in it. Very linear, a simplified WoW i'd say (Yes, as it seems a "MMORPG" can get even simpler than WOW!!).
I tend to compare MMOs with music. There are the popular ones. The ones that look impressive, polished and reach for the masses. These that sell millions on their first day in the stores. These that target little girls which is the easiest type of audience to sell to. This is LOTRO and WOW. Easy, accessible games for the masses. They do not demand much from the player nor its hardware. Then there is music that not everyone knows, its not played in MTV and when you go to a store you have to know what you are looking for. Its not going to sell 5 million copies in the first day of release, and little girls will never talk about it.Little girls will most probably hate it because it is not easy to listen and like. This is the music that I like. And this is what VG is trying to become. Quality MMORPG. You think the guys at Sigil are stupid? They could take out 3/4s of Telon, take out diplomacy and complex crafting, take out 7 classes and 7 races and have plenty of time to polish it and make it perfect on release. What would they have then?? A small world, 4 classes 3 races and a linear quest line that takes you through the whole gameworld in a couple of weeks at the most. Thats LOTRO. That's the story.
But, since you stated that you are fed up with MMORPGs and prefer easy going MMOs, I agree with your choice of LOTRO. If you had asked me I would proposed that game for you as well. Perfect choice. So let us, the guys that still like real MMORPGs play VG, which although unfinished and problematic is the only game that has the potential to become a great immersive MMORPG at this time. Age of Conan and maybe Darkfall (if the guys manage to get it out) are going to be very tough competitors, especially if SOE does not make smart moves, but at the time VG is the only thing out there.
Well I cannot disagree to anything you say, cause you are saying it right. I agree on everything you say about lotro. Its a game designed for the masses, it looks ok, its definately more polished than WoW. It is not engaging at all though, its world is not immersive at all.
See, on this I disagree. I think it's a very well written game that draws players into the story. And the world of Middle Earth is alive-- NPC's walk around, talk to each other, and provide a semblance of life. Add the scripted moments during quests, which include your character in the events, and it adds up to a compelling game experience.
A bunch of nonsensical trash about MMO's, girls, and music
Please note, I'm a woman. And I'm not only woman, but a gamer, and am savvy enough to have built my own system from the ground up, which I've done for years. I'm not stupid, nor am I a kid.
I can appreciate a good challenge. I've gone through them. But don't sit there and bullshit me that there's no challenge in games like WoW or LOTR. There IS challenge, if you care to look. It's just the pseudo-elitist macho game snobs, who want to pretend that EverQuest was some sort of pinnacle of manly gaming because we all spent days and weeks and months mindlessly grinding XP, running for our corpses, camping the same goddamn mobs as everyone else, fighting with other guilds over raid times, and dealing with the uber-l33t idiots who'd train all of Unrest/Blackburrow/etc. over our heads to get to the boss mob first that seem to think WoW's an easy game to play, and that it's for 12 year olds. It's got depth and challenge, should you decide to look for it.
But, since you stated that you are fed up with MMORPGs and prefer easy going MMOs, I agree with your choice of LOTRO. If you had asked me I would proposed that game for you as well. Perfect choice. So let us, the guys that still like real MMORPGs play VG,
Ah yes. More of that pseudo-elitist macho gamer BS. You play "real" games, and the rest of us are gibbering retards who can't handle what you can. Spare me. I've heard it all before, and I'm not impressed.
Bottom line-- I have a job. I'm in a relationship with a good man. I have friends and family that I like to spend time with. I enjoy reading good books, hitting the gym, and otherwise getting out of the house. Just becuase I CHOOSE to do things with my time that don't involve being shackled to my computer playing a game for 8+ hours a day anymore doesn't make me any less of a gamer than you, and it doesn't mean that I'm somehow only able to comprehend or handle games that aren't "real MMORPG's", whatever the hell that means.
which although unfinished and problematic is the only game that has the potential to become a great immersive MMORPG at this time. Age of Conan and maybe Darkfall (if the guys manage to get it out) are going to be very tough competitors, especially if SOE does not make smart moves, but at the time VG is the only thing out there.
VG would have been the only thing out there if Sigil hadn't pissed away five years, $30 million and all of the potential that they had behind them.
Do you know why I re-activated my WoW account at all? I'll tell you. It's because I played Vanguard in beta and found it to be lacking, and was sorely disappointed in what I saw. by contrast, I looked at what was coming down the line in the Burning Crusade and was curious to see how the game had developed since the time I'd played.
Before then, the farthest I'd ever gotten in Azeroth was a 10-day buddy key and the free month that comes with the box, and that was back in March 2005. I quit before the end of my time in the game, because I was completely over the whole high fantasy setting, with Elves, Orcs, Trolls, Dwarves, etc. due to EQ burnout.
Vanguard was going to be my return to the fantasy genre, simply becuase I enjoyed EQ, and I figured that Brad had changed and evolved as a game designer since leaving SOE, just as I'd evolved as a gamer. I wanted to see what he would come up with, and I was looking forward to playing.
What did I get, both in VG's beta, and in a 10-day trial when I upgraded my system? A rehash of pre-Luclin EQ with a new, if washed out, coat of paint, cookie cutter races, and a world that made a mannequin shop look alive by comparison. Oh, and a card battle game that was saddled with some of the most bland, eye-glazing text I've ever read.
I can't even begin to explain how utterly disappointed I was. It was such a waste to me that so much money and time could end up producing so little. By comparison, I was able to jump into a new expansion for a game that's been out for 2+ years and see a polished, fully realized world.
And LOTR? Turbine spent way less than Sigil, and took less time in development, and they still came out with a much better looking, more stable, and more polished game. That just makes VG all the more tragic, IMO.
With any luck, SOE will be able to turn it around. I wanted VG to do well, if for no other reason than to give gamers more choices, since that's a good thing. Unfortunately, Sigil dropped the ball, and they're now having to be bailed out. It's a damned shame.
...in LOTR, which is a nice, polished game, and has been really well done by Turbine....
solitaire is polished as well. is this the only thing that is important to you? come on, lotro is a prime example of a game that comes out fast, looks polished, creates nice screenshots (although its graphics when you play the game are not so good after all - low detail textures) and is backed up with many millions invested for marketing. credits go to the fact that is plays smoothly and hasnt got any major bugs but the game is very shallow and unbelievably small. i really cant understand how you liked lotro, especially when you come from eq.
Turbine?? lol, these guys are clueless. they get the best IPs and make the most shallow games. they even produced a shallow official AD&D game. Ok they got good QA, but thats about it for Turbine.
Troll
And so you know i dont play LOTRO or AD&D or VANGUARD. You are however by your replies in this thread a bit of a troll, sorry dont mean to offend but if you honestly look at some of your reply thats what they are.
lol. i love vg haters, they are so funny. Who says they are all haters some may actually be giving critisism.
I dont give a **** about who develops, produces, distributes and supports a game You should especially if they have had history, how would you feel if the developers behind Horizons took over vanguard hmmmm. I just know that VG is the best MMORPG out there Not really this is just yuor personall opinion., Its getting fixed at an amazing rate well if it is then that is a good sign and the fact that I see hundreds of dev posts every day proves that they work full time for VG Links pls and i will say other games have devs that regully chat with the subscribers including the one i play. and that they care to discuss the direction they will take with the community In my game they not only do this but sometimes we decide what direction the game goes.. Do you know any other company that allows the devs to speak with the community? I havent seen that anywhere else. Obviously you havent played many MMO'S
I see all haters belonging in one of the next groups: Ahh here comes the steriotyping.
1) People with crappy 4 year old computers that can't play, so they bash the game cause it exposes their lack of hardware. well my rig is 6 months old built it myself its very powerfull and lags with Vanguard which tells me that the core coding in vanguard is imperfect.
2) People that find VG hard because of the death system The death system is a joke and the slow leveling Well leveling full stop is boring when you are playing an empty game , because they cannot play 48 hours non-stop and reach an uber status People have died palying 48 hours straight and listening you say uber status makes me wonder how old you are..
3) People that work for other companies (turbine etc) or have a profit if VG fails Ahh the old Viral advertising trick Proof pls.
4) People that are trolling no matter if they post in a MMO forum , an athletics forums, a music forum, or troll all day in their real life no matter with who and about what they are talking about. They are called assholes. So basically anyone who disagrees with you are assholes and trolls
I think you kind of demonstraighted why Vanbois are so disliked in some bourds. You are all blind to everything but what your dev gods tell you.
Disclaimer: Just so we're clear, nothing said in this post is said as a representative of Sigil Games Online. I'm just some guy.
First of all, I apologize for my unexplained lack of personal participation on these boards lately. The fact of the matter is that I no longer work for Sigil. While it's somewhat tacky and unprofessional to talk about the reasons for leaving a position, in this case I feel I owe it to all of you who I have enjoyed working so closely with to at least say something.
My reasons for leaving were entirely personal and voluntary and essentially boil down to the fact that I missed being a part of the day to day lives of my friends and family, and California was far away from all of them. I don't hate anybody at Sigil (except for Cylus, of course) and I'm relatively sure they don't hate me, so we're all good on that front.
As I am no longer a Sigil employee, I can't speak to their current plans for supporting the UI community, but I do know that it's important to them and I'm certain that any perceived lack of attention is due far more to available resources than to commitment and as such should be corrected in time, though I obviously am not in a position to say anything for certain.
It has been absolutely wonderful working with all of you. I made a big post at the end of beta thanking people and it's safe to say that that list has grown significantly since then. The commitment you've all shown and the community you have built is a wonder to behold, and I'm certain that it's strong enough to survive any short-term road bumps on Sigil's end. They really do care, guys, and I'll be sure to mention to them that this community needs a little love.
If you have any questions for me, I'm happy to answer them here or in PM, though as I said, I'm now just some guy who cares about this community and want to help in whatever way I can and most certainly do not speak for Sigil or anybody there. I'm not disappearing or dead or anything, but obviously my participation here won't be what it once was in days of legend.
I simply can't thank everybody here enough, but, for what it's worth: Thank you.
As metioned in my other post.. A dev from SWG has told me that most of the old VG team is gone and the EQ2 team is taking over... blah blah.
Anyway for months I have posted about how large of a POS VG is and how Brad can't and won't get it together, only to have the waves of Fanbois flaming me for being realistic.
I honestly was hoping the game would be good. VG has potential but now it's pretty much over.
Here are the facts:
SOE is developing another game and two more expansions.They will only have a limited staff to keep VG going.
SOE is famous for not developing anything really unique so VG will end up with ho-hum "themepark" content., nerfs and more bugs than a crackwhore.
If some of the original staff does stay, I highly doubt they will have much to do with content but mostly will be figureheads so people feel like "Oh they really do care about the community, crap" and "Oh they they may work for SOE now but they care about the game... blah blah good cop / bad cop crap"
And once again I was told that some of the SWG staff will be working on it so ... LMAO!! You know the kinda quality programming one can expect. I just hope they send the fanbois some KY.. Oh wait the fanbois will support anything as long as they are kissing somebodies ass... oops my bad
Eitherway it sure does feel good to be validated especially after dealing with these rabid fanbois all these months.
Red Text is Fact the Green text is speculation and personal opinion....
If Vanguard does fail and closes up shop I wonder what all you trolls will do with your new founded spare time... since most of you seem to spend a significant amount of time in here
what is it with all these sony games coming out with patches or expansions that have to do with pirate ships or boat battles? must piss of the guys with station passes playing and paying for these games and expansions only to have the same crap in all of them....
Answer: It's SOE's way of doing things, they always wind up shooting themselves silly. And they wouldn't want it any other way. Isn't that right Smedley? It's their M.O.
lol. i love vg haters, they are so funny. Who says they are all haters some may actually be giving critisism.
I dont give a **** about who develops, produces, distributes and supports a game You should especially if they have had history, how would you feel if the developers behind Horizons took over vanguard hmmmm. I just know that VG is the best MMORPG out there Not really this is just yuor personall opinion., Its getting fixed at an amazing rate well if it is then that is a good sign and the fact that I see hundreds of dev posts every day proves that they work full time for VG Links pls and i will say other games have devs that regully chat with the subscribers including the one i play. and that they care to discuss the direction they will take with the community In my game they not only do this but sometimes we decide what direction the game goes.. Do you know any other company that allows the devs to speak with the community? I havent seen that anywhere else. Obviously you havent played many MMO'S
I see all haters belonging in one of the next groups: Ahh here comes the steriotyping.
1) People with crappy 4 year old computers that can't play, so they bash the game cause it exposes their lack of hardware. well my rig is 6 months old built it myself its very powerfull and lags with Vanguard which tells me that the core coding in vanguard is imperfect.
2) People that find VG hard because of the death system The death system is a joke and the slow leveling Well leveling full stop is boring when you are playing an empty game , because they cannot play 48 hours non-stop and reach an uber status People have died palying 48 hours straight and listening you say uber status makes me wonder how old you are..
3) People that work for other companies (turbine etc) or have a profit if VG fails Ahh the old Viral advertising trick Proof pls.
4) People that are trolling no matter if they post in a MMO forum , an athletics forums, a music forum, or troll all day in their real life no matter with who and about what they are talking about. They are called assholes. So basically anyone who disagrees with you are assholes and trolls
I think you kind of demonstraighted why Vanbois are so disliked in some bourds. You are all blind to everything but what your dev gods tell you.
did you copy lidane's post? go back in the thread.
Originally posted by huxflux2004 Well I cannot disagree to anything you say, cause you are saying it right. I agree on everything you say about lotro. Its a game designed for the masses, it looks ok, its definately more polished than WoW. It is not engaging at all though, its world is not immersive at all.
See, on this I disagree. I think it's a very well written game that draws players into the story. And the world of Middle Earth is alive-- NPC's walk around, talk to each other, and provide a semblance of life. Add the scripted moments during quests, which include your character in the events, and it adds up to a compelling game experience.
A bunch of nonsensical trash about MMO's, girls, and music
Please note, I'm a woman. And I'm not only woman, but a gamer, and am savvy enough to have built my own system from the ground up, which I've done for years. I'm not stupid, nor am I a kid.
I can appreciate a good challenge. I've gone through them. But don't sit there and bullshit me that there's no challenge in games like WoW or LOTR. There IS challenge, if you care to look. It's just the pseudo-elitist macho game snobs, who want to pretend that EverQuest was some sort of pinnacle of manly gaming because we all spent days and weeks and months mindlessly grinding XP, running for our corpses, camping the same goddamn mobs as everyone else, fighting with other guilds over raid times, and dealing with the uber-l33t idiots who'd train all of Unrest/Blackburrow/etc. over our heads to get to the boss mob first that seem to think WoW's an easy game to play, and that it's for 12 year olds. It's got depth and challenge, should you decide to look for it.
But, since you stated that you are fed up with MMORPGs and prefer easy going MMOs, I agree with your choice of LOTRO. If you had asked me I would proposed that game for you as well. Perfect choice. So let us, the guys that still like real MMORPGs play VG,
Ah yes. More of that pseudo-elitist macho gamer BS. You play "real" games, and the rest of us are gibbering retards who can't handle what you can. Spare me. I've heard it all before, and I'm not impressed.
Bottom line-- I have a job. I'm in a relationship with a good man. I have friends and family that I like to spend time with. I enjoy reading good books, hitting the gym, and otherwise getting out of the house. Just becuase I CHOOSE to do things with my time that don't involve being shackled to my computer playing a game for 8+ hours a day anymore doesn't make me any less of a gamer than you, and it doesn't mean that I'm somehow only able to comprehend or handle games that aren't "real MMORPG's", whatever the hell that means.
which although unfinished and problematic is the only game that has the potential to become a great immersive MMORPG at this time. Age of Conan and maybe Darkfall (if the guys manage to get it out) are going to be very tough competitors, especially if SOE does not make smart moves, but at the time VG is the only thing out there.
VG would have been the only thing out there if Sigil hadn't pissed away five years, $30 million and all of the potential that they had behind them.
Do you know why I re-activated my WoW account at all? I'll tell you. It's because I played Vanguard in beta and found it to be lacking, and was sorely disappointed in what I saw. by contrast, I looked at what was coming down the line in the Burning Crusade and was curious to see how the game had developed since the time I'd played.
Before then, the farthest I'd ever gotten in Azeroth was a 10-day buddy key and the free month that comes with the box, and that was back in March 2005. I quit before the end of my time in the game, because I was completely over the whole high fantasy setting, with Elves, Orcs, Trolls, Dwarves, etc. due to EQ burnout.
Vanguard was going to be my return to the fantasy genre, simply becuase I enjoyed EQ, and I figured that Brad had changed and evolved as a game designer since leaving SOE, just as I'd evolved as a gamer. I wanted to see what he would come up with, and I was looking forward to playing.
What did I get, both in VG's beta, and in a 10-day trial when I upgraded my system? A rehash of pre-Luclin EQ with a new, if washed out, coat of paint, cookie cutter races, and a world that made a mannequin shop look alive by comparison. Oh, and a card battle game that was saddled with some of the most bland, eye-glazing text I've ever read.
I can't even begin to explain how utterly disappointed I was. It was such a waste to me that so much money and time could end up producing so little. By comparison, I was able to jump into a new expansion for a game that's been out for 2+ years and see a polished, fully realized world.
And LOTR? Turbine spent way less than Sigil, and took less time in development, and they still came out with a much better looking, more stable, and more polished game. That just makes VG all the more tragic, IMO.
With any luck, SOE will be able to turn it around. I wanted VG to do well, if for no other reason than to give gamers more choices, since that's a good thing. Unfortunately, Sigil dropped the ball, and they're now having to be bailed out. It's a damned shame.
computer games are products just as much as music albums are. the same rules of marketing and product development apply here as well, thats why i parallelize games with music.
anyways, apart from the bugs (that are getting fixed at a very good rate) tell us what you didnt like in vg. You have posted about a million lines of text expressing your dissapointment (hate i would say, due to the way you express yourself) with vg, but not a single word apart from it not being "polished".
furthermore, having a job, a boyfriend and an exciting life are not things you have exclusivity in, so no point in mentioning them here.
Originally posted by huxflux2004 anyways, apart from the bugs (that are getting fixed at a very good rate) tell us what you didnt like in vg. You have posted about a million lines of text expressing your dissapointment (hate i would say, due to the way you express yourself) with vg, but not a single word apart from it not being "polished".
It's all there. I don't see a need to repat myself again.
And no-- I don't hate Vanguard. Just idiocy, like the posts you've written so far that do nothing but stereotype people.
furthermore, having a job, a boyfriend and an exciting life are not things you have exclusivity in, so no point in mentioning them here.
Sure there is. They explain why I don't shackle myself to my computer for 8+ hours a day anymore, and why I prefer more casual games now. I've got a life to live. Why would I want a game that has to become a second job for me in order to progress at any reasonable rate?
why do you get so upset miss?
Good point. None of your nonsense is worth it, and I don't need to justify anything to you.
Wow, ol' Healz4U must have attended a Brad McQuaid revival tent meeting and got his "cure"
Posted on 3/26, by the born-again Vanboi:
Yes. I was referring to EQ 2. I know that Vanguard ... stinks.
And there is.....
I have my Vanguard account until April 3rd or 5th or something like that and logged in the other. I logged in to explore some major cities to see what some parts of the world are like again. I seemed to lag even more. I took a boat ride, the captain looked crucified. Then, I suddently crashed just did not bother to log in again. LOL.
I am truly shocked that it was released the way it was and performance is so bad. I have played EQ for a long time, and I do not remember anyone saying that zoning was BAD; in fact, some people like to zone because it offers a moment to get up and get a cup of coffee if you want. The seamless world concept works in WoW but is a total failure in Vanguard. The world is ... big, but that is ultimately the only good thing you can really say about it. (shrug).
What did they make you drink to change your mind so drastically? Or did they cut you a check? I just wonder, because I had a similar transformation, but it was from "good" to "sucks like a cheap...you know". I've never seen anyone flip the other way.
I was anticipating this comment, which is more powerfully offensive to me than you probably know. I take my integrity highly seriously, and the idea (joke or not) that I would ever self-censor or endorse or support Vanguard for money is the most remarkably outrageous accusation I have read to this day. I am not, nor have I ever been, a "Brad fan," a "van-boi," or affiliated or associated or involved in any way, manner or form with SIGIL or any organization whatsoever.I am a fan of MMORPG; I think the community is great, and I think you Vanguard-haters (and lovers) undermine honest, thoughtful, and meaningful discussion in this forum about Vanguard.
The idea that I am now a "fan-boi" is remarkable, as I was neither a Vanguard-hater nor a Vanguard-lover. I have been censored on other web pages for my criticism of Vanguard (I have never been censored on MMORPG). I appreciate your quoting me, and I appreciate the time you must have taken and the interest you have in my comments. However, my comments were reference to Vanguard at release and not regarding Vanguard in its present state.The Vanguard-haters are focusing on old bugs, old issues, and old problems and not sharing with this community objective and truthful information on the current state of the game. As a consequence, I intend to provide an objective, truthful, and unbiased analysis of Vanguard in its present state that is neither for a Vanguard-hater or a Vanguard-lover that answers these questions: what changes (improvements) have been made - and what is the game like now?
I feel as if addressing this ridiculous matter for you might provide you more dignity than you deserve. You have questioned my integrity, whether a joke or not (it seems like you are half joking and half serious). I remain shocked by the state of Vanguard's release and I am very encouraged by its steady improvements.
Oh, it was intended completely tongue in cheek, in reference to the viral marketer rumours. It wasn't intended as serious or offensive. I remembered you stating that Vanguard was horrible, and decided to have a little fun with it. It's the internet. And a gaming forum on top of that. Nothing anyone reads here should ever be taken with any degree of seriousness, but I'm sure you know that. Getting offended by someone who doesn't even know you is really something I can't understand. But I'll apologize anyhow- it's apparent I touched a nerve.
Oh, it was intended completely tongue in cheek, in reference to the viral marketer rumours. It wasn't intended as serious or offensive. I remembered you stating that Vanguard was horrible, and decided to have a little fun with it. It's the internet. And a gaming forum on top of that. Nothing anyone reads here should ever be taken with any degree of seriousness, but I'm sure you know that. Getting offended by someone who doesn't even know you is really something I can't understand. But I'll apologize anyhow- it's apparent I touched a nerve.
I have always respected your comments, my Friend, and I continue to.
I can emotionally sustain anything. Nevertheless, I am troubled by the dishonest comments (from both haters and lovers) regarding Vanguard in its current condition. It is hurting MMORPG (and perhaps Vanguard). It hurts Vanguard because if some one believes a Vanguard-lover and logs-in but finds it over-hyped, it can generate disappointment. The Vanguard-hater with the lies and dishonesty might discourage people who might really enjoy the game. I just feel that the community in the Vanguard section is not being served (I think a lot of people feel this way but have given-up on doing anything to change it).
Edit: I think my response about my integrity was a bit heavy-handed and over-the-top as well. I apologize as well. I look forward to our continued discussion on MMORPG topics and issues. It has been great so far.
Originally posted by Gules_Aspen Or did they cut you a check?
I was anticipating this comment, which is more powerfully offensive to me than you probably know.
lol your writing style reminds me that of brad mcsquid himself. so technically you are not getting paid what so ever. most of your posts are short novels and do nothing but ass kiss the creaters and everything about this game. same deal as some of the shills from dark and light. can see your viral marketing plan is working.... oh ya and your complete BS lies are much like brad's. though there are a few vanbois here that have that same style. same person or you guys just brad clones?
anyways i bought this game despite what everyone was saying and i have to say i aggree more with the haters about this game. I am still playing till my sub runs out but that is it. i always buy mmo's a few months after release, if the devs dont have crap worked out by then, then its too late in my books. brad wants people to keep resubbing while he basically just said the game wont be released till the end of the year again with a nge.
so keep feeding possible subscribers bullshi* all you want. in the end people will make up their own minds like i did and say screw brad, his vision, and all the crap brad and company spew forth. the concept of the game was nice but thats about it.
my whole time on these boards since 2004. i have never actually supported a game on these boards either. just post what i see as the truth in my own eyes. what i hate about alot of mmo devs and game mods is the BS they spin to us the consumer thinking we are daft and will resub to their game because they tell us so. i own every mmo that has a box that was sold in north america. i pretty much beta every game then buy like i said a few months after release. knowing that brad is the king of the viral marketing strategy i make sure i dont get sucked in to the lies much more then ever. some games i like to believe what the devs say about their game but in all honesty its all but a pack of lies. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MIGHTY $$$. any company will say anything for that mighty $.
I was anticipating this comment, which is more powerfully offensive to me than you probably know.
lol your writing style reminds me that of brad mcsquid himself. so technically you are not getting paid what so ever. most of your posts are short novels and do nothing but ass kiss the creaters and everything about this game. same deal as some of the shills from dark and light. can see your viral marketing plan is working....
(rolls eyes)
I have ironically been censored on forums (not MMORPG) for my criticism of SIGIL (Brad's) unethical viral marketing. And the irony is the lunacy of this viral marketing (as a victim of it) that I am now accused of it. The irony is truly amusing to me as much as it is troubling. I have decided to block you, because I sense some (not all) Vanguard-haters seek to not engage in thoughtful or meaningful discussion but point their fingers and say, "viral marketer" or "van-boi" or "mcsquid himself." The poster actually accused me, at least impliedly, of being "mcsquid himself." LOL.
(blushes) I feel a bit foolish wasting my time replying to some of these remarkable (though slightly amusing) accusations. As I write this, I am not sure if I am offended or flattered. I feel a bit more... troubled, however. Edit: Actually, I feel somewhat sad for what some haters (and lovers) of Vanguard are doing to the quality of the posts in this section. It is sad.
Originally posted by Agricola1 Present = Vanguard/Sigil/Brad do not deliver.
I am reluctant to ask, as I typically do not engage in a serious discussion with Vanguard-haters. Nevertheless, I will ask if you state this based on experience or assumption? That is, if you are not currently playing and assuming that the game is not "delivered," then I believe you are deceiving and being dishonest to this community.
I think there is a (very) fine line here between assumption and flat-out lie as well.
Edit: To be clear, if you are commenting on the present state of the game yet do not play the game, then you are not in a credible (qualified) position to make those comments. Your comments are then nothing but assumptions (lies?).
That statement that "present = Vanguard/Sigil/Brad do not deliver" is based on Brads many statements to the community, stating in no uncertain terms that in its present state Vanguard doesn't deliver. Actually it's quite ironic that you believe I might be being deceptive and dishonest to the community after I merely regurgitate what Brad has already stated to it!
A fine line between assumption and flat-out lie? I think Brad puts them both in the "viral marketing" category, yes?
My coments are merely Brads comments nothing more. If you have a statement where Brad says he believes VG has delivered please post the link. If you feel it has delivered for you then fine that's your opinion, but VG hasn't delivered financially and that's what VG is all about for Brad. The reason it hasn't delivered financially is because it hasn't delivered on the vision that so many customers were sold pre-release.
I'd be interested to know if and why you disagree/agree with me.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Comments
And yet, the game is selling very well, and getting good reviews. It's a nice change of pace. I think.
Oh, and yes-- polish matters. There's no reason to pay for potential when there are games out there that are stable, polished, and feel like living, breathing worlds. Why settle when you can get a much better overall experience for the same price?
Easily. Because I left EQ back in 2003 and moved on as a gamer. I used to spend as much time in Norrath per day as I spent at work. It was damn near a second job, and literally consumed most, if not all, of my social life for the 3+ years I played. Raids late into the night with me falling asleep at my keyboard, long, tedious camping of items, etc. Been there, done that. No desire to go through that nonsense again.
That was then. Now, I prefer my gaming in smaller bits, with more engaging worlds, storylines, and yes, polish. I don't have the patience anymore for long, tedious grinds like what I went through in EQ. Hence my attraction to games like CoH/V, WoW, and LOTR.
Hell, one of the first things that attracted me to CoH/V was the total lack of gear and loot. I could just sit back, relax, and play the game without worrying about any of that stuff. That I managed to find a fantastic guild back in closed beta that is still together today, and which keeps me in Paragon, was merely an added bonus.
With WoW, the grind is really only there if you want it. If you want a particular racial mount, or if you want the higher end dungeon armors and gear, then you play accordingly. If not, then you don't. It's entirely up to the player. And with LOTR, the overreaching storyline and setting of Middle Earth are very well done, with engaging gameplay.
Each of those games, in their own individual ways, allows me to come in, play for a few short hours at a time and accomplish things. Plus, unlike my time in EQ, I can still have a life. That's why I play them. I can come and go at will, playing whichever one strikes my fancy that day. I'm not stuck, like I was in EQ, spawn camping for days or weeks, or mindlessly grinding XP for weeks to level.
Yeah, those clueless Turbine bastards. Making a game that is one of the fastest selling MMO's in a good long while, and which actually has an engaging storyline that draws the player in from the start. What on Earth were they thinking making that game?
Honestly, for anyone who's ever been curious about MMO's and who likes Tolkien, it's a damn fine introduction to the genre, and a living, thriving world in its own right. The whole environment feels alive, and like you're part of it. Turbine have done a hell of a job, and I hope the game endures for them. They deserve any success it brings them.
And yet, the game is selling very well, and getting good reviews. It's a nice change of pace. I think.
Oh, and yes-- polish matters. There's no reason to pay for potential when there are games out there that are stable, polished, and feel like living, breathing worlds. Why settle when you can get a much better overall experience for the same price?
Easily. Because I left EQ back in 2003 and moved on as a gamer. I used to spend as much time in Norrath per day as I spent at work. It was damn near a second job, and literally consumed most, if not all, of my social life for the 3+ years I played. Raids late into the night with me falling asleep at my keyboard, long, tedious camping of items, etc. Been there, done that. No desire to go through that nonsense again.
That was then. Now, I prefer my gaming in smaller bits, with more engaging worlds, storylines, and yes, polish. I don't have the patience anymore for long, tedious grinds like what I went through in EQ. Hence my attraction to games like CoH/V, WoW, and LOTR.
Hell, one of the first things that attracted me to CoH/V was the total lack of gear and loot. I could just sit back, relax, and play the game without worrying about any of that stuff. That I managed to find a fantastic guild back in closed beta that is still together today, and which keeps me in Paragon, was merely an added bonus.
With WoW, the grind is really only there if you want it. If you want a particular racial mount, or if you want the higher end dungeon armors and gear, then you play accordingly. If not, then you don't. It's entirely up to the player. And with LOTR, the overreaching storyline and setting of Middle Earth are very well done, with engaging gameplay.
Each of those games, in their own individual ways, allows me to come in, play for a few short hours at a time and accomplish things. Plus, unlike my time in EQ, I can still have a life. That's why I play them. I can come and go at will, playing whichever one strikes my fancy that day. I'm not stuck, like I was in EQ, spawn camping for days or weeks, or mindlessly grinding XP for weeks to level.
Yeah, those clueless Turbine bastards. Making a game that is one of the fastest selling MMO's in a good long while, and which actually has an engaging storyline that draws the player in from the start. What on Earth were they thinking making that game?
Honestly, for anyone who's ever been curious about MMO's and who likes Tolkien, it's a damn fine introduction to the genre, and a living, thriving world in its own right. The whole environment feels alive, and like you're part of it. Turbine have done a hell of a job, and I hope the game endures for them. They deserve any success it brings them.
Well I cannot disagree to anything you say, cause you are saying it right. I agree on everything you say about lotro. Its a game designed for the masses, it looks ok, its definately more polished than WoW. It is not engaging at all though, its world is not immersive at all. I played it during the early access and got bored with it very-very fast. Both the size and the mechanic of lotros world do not allow you to be immersed in it. Very linear, a simplified WoW i'd say (Yes, as it seems a "MMORPG" can get even simpler than WOW!!).
I tend to compare MMOs with music. There are the popular ones. The ones that look impressive, polished and reach for the masses. These that sell millions on their first day in the stores. These that target little girls which is the easiest type of audience to sell to. This is LOTRO and WOW. Easy, accessible games for the masses. They do not demand much from the player nor its hardware. Then there is music that not everyone knows, its not played in MTV and when you go to a store you have to know what you are looking for. Its not going to sell 5 million copies in the first day of release, and little girls will never talk about it.Little girls will most probably hate it because it is not easy to listen and like. This is the music that I like. And this is what VG is trying to become. Quality MMORPG. You think the guys at Sigil are stupid? They could take out 3/4s of Telon, take out diplomacy and complex crafting, take out 7 classes and 7 races and have plenty of time to polish it and make it perfect on release. What would they have then?? A small world, 4 classes 3 races and a linear quest line that takes you through the whole gameworld in a couple of weeks at the most. Thats LOTRO. That's the story.
But, since you stated that you are fed up with MMORPGs and prefer easy going MMOs, I agree with your choice of LOTRO. If you had asked me I would proposed that game for you as well. Perfect choice. So let us, the guys that still like real MMORPGs play VG, which although unfinished and problematic is the only game that has the potential to become a great immersive MMORPG at this time. Age of Conan and maybe Darkfall (if the guys manage to get it out) are going to be very tough competitors, especially if SOE does not make smart moves, but at the time VG is the only thing out there.
See, on this I disagree. I think it's a very well written game that draws players into the story. And the world of Middle Earth is alive-- NPC's walk around, talk to each other, and provide a semblance of life. Add the scripted moments during quests, which include your character in the events, and it adds up to a compelling game experience.
Please note, I'm a woman. And I'm not only woman, but a gamer, and am savvy enough to have built my own system from the ground up, which I've done for years. I'm not stupid, nor am I a kid.
I can appreciate a good challenge. I've gone through them. But don't sit there and bullshit me that there's no challenge in games like WoW or LOTR. There IS challenge, if you care to look. It's just the pseudo-elitist macho game snobs, who want to pretend that EverQuest was some sort of pinnacle of manly gaming because we all spent days and weeks and months mindlessly grinding XP, running for our corpses, camping the same goddamn mobs as everyone else, fighting with other guilds over raid times, and dealing with the uber-l33t idiots who'd train all of Unrest/Blackburrow/etc. over our heads to get to the boss mob first that seem to think WoW's an easy game to play, and that it's for 12 year olds. It's got depth and challenge, should you decide to look for it.
Ah yes. More of that pseudo-elitist macho gamer BS. You play "real" games, and the rest of us are gibbering retards who can't handle what you can. Spare me. I've heard it all before, and I'm not impressed.
Bottom line-- I have a job. I'm in a relationship with a good man. I have friends and family that I like to spend time with. I enjoy reading good books, hitting the gym, and otherwise getting out of the house. Just becuase I CHOOSE to do things with my time that don't involve being shackled to my computer playing a game for 8+ hours a day anymore doesn't make me any less of a gamer than you, and it doesn't mean that I'm somehow only able to comprehend or handle games that aren't "real MMORPG's", whatever the hell that means.
VG would have been the only thing out there if Sigil hadn't pissed away five years, $30 million and all of the potential that they had behind them.
Do you know why I re-activated my WoW account at all? I'll tell you. It's because I played Vanguard in beta and found it to be lacking, and was sorely disappointed in what I saw. by contrast, I looked at what was coming down the line in the Burning Crusade and was curious to see how the game had developed since the time I'd played.
Before then, the farthest I'd ever gotten in Azeroth was a 10-day buddy key and the free month that comes with the box, and that was back in March 2005. I quit before the end of my time in the game, because I was completely over the whole high fantasy setting, with Elves, Orcs, Trolls, Dwarves, etc. due to EQ burnout.
Vanguard was going to be my return to the fantasy genre, simply becuase I enjoyed EQ, and I figured that Brad had changed and evolved as a game designer since leaving SOE, just as I'd evolved as a gamer. I wanted to see what he would come up with, and I was looking forward to playing.
What did I get, both in VG's beta, and in a 10-day trial when I upgraded my system? A rehash of pre-Luclin EQ with a new, if washed out, coat of paint, cookie cutter races, and a world that made a mannequin shop look alive by comparison. Oh, and a card battle game that was saddled with some of the most bland, eye-glazing text I've ever read.
I can't even begin to explain how utterly disappointed I was. It was such a waste to me that so much money and time could end up producing so little. By comparison, I was able to jump into a new expansion for a game that's been out for 2+ years and see a polished, fully realized world.
And LOTR? Turbine spent way less than Sigil, and took less time in development, and they still came out with a much better looking, more stable, and more polished game. That just makes VG all the more tragic, IMO.
With any luck, SOE will be able to turn it around. I wanted VG to do well, if for no other reason than to give gamers more choices, since that's a good thing. Unfortunately, Sigil dropped the ball, and they're now having to be bailed out. It's a damned shame.
Turbine?? lol, these guys are clueless. they get the best IPs and make the most shallow games. they even produced a shallow official AD&D game. Ok they got good QA, but thats about it for Turbine.
Troll
And so you know i dont play LOTRO or AD&D or VANGUARD. You are however by your replies in this thread a bit of a troll, sorry dont mean to offend but if you honestly look at some of your reply thats what they are.
I think you kind of demonstraighted why Vanbois are so disliked in some bourds. You are all blind to everything but what your dev gods tell you.
http://www.vgsohinterface.com/showthread.php?t=1529
_________________________________________________________________
First of all, I apologize for my unexplained lack of personal participation on these boards lately. The fact of the matter is that I no longer work for Sigil. While it's somewhat tacky and unprofessional to talk about the reasons for leaving a position, in this case I feel I owe it to all of you who I have enjoyed working so closely with to at least say something.
My reasons for leaving were entirely personal and voluntary and essentially boil down to the fact that I missed being a part of the day to day lives of my friends and family, and California was far away from all of them. I don't hate anybody at Sigil (except for Cylus, of course) and I'm relatively sure they don't hate me, so we're all good on that front.
As I am no longer a Sigil employee, I can't speak to their current plans for supporting the UI community, but I do know that it's important to them and I'm certain that any perceived lack of attention is due far more to available resources than to commitment and as such should be corrected in time, though I obviously am not in a position to say anything for certain.
It has been absolutely wonderful working with all of you. I made a big post at the end of beta thanking people and it's safe to say that that list has grown significantly since then. The commitment you've all shown and the community you have built is a wonder to behold, and I'm certain that it's strong enough to survive any short-term road bumps on Sigil's end. They really do care, guys, and I'll be sure to mention to them that this community needs a little love.
If you have any questions for me, I'm happy to answer them here or in PM, though as I said, I'm now just some guy who cares about this community and want to help in whatever way I can and most certainly do not speak for Sigil or anybody there. I'm not disappearing or dead or anything, but obviously my participation here won't be what it once was in days of legend.
I simply can't thank everybody here enough, but, for what it's worth: Thank you.
Zach Lute
Some Guy of No Importance
Red Text is Fact the Green text is speculation and personal opinion....
If Vanguard does fail and closes up shop I wonder what all you trolls will do with your new founded spare time... since most of you seem to spend a significant amount of time in here
what is it with all these sony games coming out with patches or expansions that have to do with pirate ships or boat battles? must piss of the guys with station passes playing and paying for these games and expansions only to have the same crap in all of them....
Head Joint SoundCloud Page
https://soundcloud.com/headjointambient1
Answer: It's SOE's way of doing things, they always wind up shooting themselves silly. And they wouldn't want it any other way. Isn't that right Smedley? It's their M.O.
EQ2 Devs post alot in the OFFICIAL forums for EQ2 and even take part in discussions.
I think you kind of demonstraighted why Vanbois are so disliked in some bourds. You are all blind to everything but what your dev gods tell you.
did you copy lidane's post? go back in the thread.See, on this I disagree. I think it's a very well written game that draws players into the story. And the world of Middle Earth is alive-- NPC's walk around, talk to each other, and provide a semblance of life. Add the scripted moments during quests, which include your character in the events, and it adds up to a compelling game experience.
Please note, I'm a woman. And I'm not only woman, but a gamer, and am savvy enough to have built my own system from the ground up, which I've done for years. I'm not stupid, nor am I a kid.
I can appreciate a good challenge. I've gone through them. But don't sit there and bullshit me that there's no challenge in games like WoW or LOTR. There IS challenge, if you care to look. It's just the pseudo-elitist macho game snobs, who want to pretend that EverQuest was some sort of pinnacle of manly gaming because we all spent days and weeks and months mindlessly grinding XP, running for our corpses, camping the same goddamn mobs as everyone else, fighting with other guilds over raid times, and dealing with the uber-l33t idiots who'd train all of Unrest/Blackburrow/etc. over our heads to get to the boss mob first that seem to think WoW's an easy game to play, and that it's for 12 year olds. It's got depth and challenge, should you decide to look for it.
Ah yes. More of that pseudo-elitist macho gamer BS. You play "real" games, and the rest of us are gibbering retards who can't handle what you can. Spare me. I've heard it all before, and I'm not impressed.
Bottom line-- I have a job. I'm in a relationship with a good man. I have friends and family that I like to spend time with. I enjoy reading good books, hitting the gym, and otherwise getting out of the house. Just becuase I CHOOSE to do things with my time that don't involve being shackled to my computer playing a game for 8+ hours a day anymore doesn't make me any less of a gamer than you, and it doesn't mean that I'm somehow only able to comprehend or handle games that aren't "real MMORPG's", whatever the hell that means.
VG would have been the only thing out there if Sigil hadn't pissed away five years, $30 million and all of the potential that they had behind them.
Do you know why I re-activated my WoW account at all? I'll tell you. It's because I played Vanguard in beta and found it to be lacking, and was sorely disappointed in what I saw. by contrast, I looked at what was coming down the line in the Burning Crusade and was curious to see how the game had developed since the time I'd played.
Before then, the farthest I'd ever gotten in Azeroth was a 10-day buddy key and the free month that comes with the box, and that was back in March 2005. I quit before the end of my time in the game, because I was completely over the whole high fantasy setting, with Elves, Orcs, Trolls, Dwarves, etc. due to EQ burnout.
Vanguard was going to be my return to the fantasy genre, simply becuase I enjoyed EQ, and I figured that Brad had changed and evolved as a game designer since leaving SOE, just as I'd evolved as a gamer. I wanted to see what he would come up with, and I was looking forward to playing.
What did I get, both in VG's beta, and in a 10-day trial when I upgraded my system? A rehash of pre-Luclin EQ with a new, if washed out, coat of paint, cookie cutter races, and a world that made a mannequin shop look alive by comparison. Oh, and a card battle game that was saddled with some of the most bland, eye-glazing text I've ever read.
I can't even begin to explain how utterly disappointed I was. It was such a waste to me that so much money and time could end up producing so little. By comparison, I was able to jump into a new expansion for a game that's been out for 2+ years and see a polished, fully realized world.
And LOTR? Turbine spent way less than Sigil, and took less time in development, and they still came out with a much better looking, more stable, and more polished game. That just makes VG all the more tragic, IMO.
With any luck, SOE will be able to turn it around. I wanted VG to do well, if for no other reason than to give gamers more choices, since that's a good thing. Unfortunately, Sigil dropped the ball, and they're now having to be bailed out. It's a damned shame.
computer games are products just as much as music albums are. the same rules of marketing and product development apply here as well, thats why i parallelize games with music.anyways, apart from the bugs (that are getting fixed at a very good rate) tell us what you didnt like in vg. You have posted about a million lines of text expressing your dissapointment (hate i would say, due to the way you express yourself) with vg, but not a single word apart from it not being "polished".
furthermore, having a job, a boyfriend and an exciting life are not things you have exclusivity in, so no point in mentioning them here.
why do you get so upset miss?
Here's an entire thread for you: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/119792
It's all there. I don't see a need to repat myself again.
And no-- I don't hate Vanguard. Just idiocy, like the posts you've written so far that do nothing but stereotype people.
Sure there is. They explain why I don't shackle myself to my computer for 8+ hours a day anymore, and why I prefer more casual games now. I've got a life to live. Why would I want a game that has to become a second job for me in order to progress at any reasonable rate?
Good point. None of your nonsense is worth it, and I don't need to justify anything to you.
Posted on 3/26, by the born-again Vanboi:
Yes. I was referring to EQ 2. I know that Vanguard ... stinks.
And there is.....
I have my Vanguard account until April 3rd or 5th or something like that and logged in the other. I logged in to explore some major cities to see what some parts of the world are like again. I seemed to lag even more. I took a boat ride, the captain looked crucified. Then, I suddently crashed just did not bother to log in again. LOL.
I am truly shocked that it was released the way it was and performance is so bad. I have played EQ for a long time, and I do not remember anyone saying that zoning was BAD; in fact, some people like to zone because it offers a moment to get up and get a cup of coffee if you want. The seamless world concept works in WoW but is a total failure in Vanguard. The world is ... big, but that is ultimately the only good thing you can really say about it. (shrug).
What did they make you drink to change your mind so drastically? Or did they cut you a check? I just wonder, because I had a similar transformation, but it was from "good" to "sucks like a cheap...you know". I've never seen anyone flip the other way.
Bite me, Turbine.
I was anticipating this comment, which is more powerfully offensive to me than you probably know. I take my integrity highly seriously, and the idea (joke or not) that I would ever self-censor or endorse or support Vanguard for money is the most remarkably outrageous accusation I have read to this day. I am not, nor have I ever been, a "Brad fan," a "van-boi," or affiliated or associated or involved in any way, manner or form with SIGIL or any organization whatsoever. I am a fan of MMORPG; I think the community is great, and I think you Vanguard-haters (and lovers) undermine honest, thoughtful, and meaningful discussion in this forum about Vanguard.
The idea that I am now a "fan-boi" is remarkable, as I was neither a Vanguard-hater nor a Vanguard-lover. I have been censored on other web pages for my criticism of Vanguard (I have never been censored on MMORPG). I appreciate your quoting me, and I appreciate the time you must have taken and the interest you have in my comments. However, my comments were reference to Vanguard at release and not regarding Vanguard in its present state. The Vanguard-haters are focusing on old bugs, old issues, and old problems and not sharing with this community objective and truthful information on the current state of the game. As a consequence, I intend to provide an objective, truthful, and unbiased analysis of Vanguard in its present state that is neither for a Vanguard-hater or a Vanguard-lover that answers these questions: what changes (improvements) have been made - and what is the game like now?
I feel as if addressing this ridiculous matter for you might provide you more dignity than you deserve. You have questioned my integrity, whether a joke or not (it seems like you are half joking and half serious). I remain shocked by the state of Vanguard's release and I am very encouraged by its steady improvements.
Bite me, Turbine.
I have always respected your comments, my Friend, and I continue to.
I can emotionally sustain anything. Nevertheless, I am troubled by the dishonest comments (from both haters and lovers) regarding Vanguard in its current condition. It is hurting MMORPG (and perhaps Vanguard). It hurts Vanguard because if some one believes a Vanguard-lover and logs-in but finds it over-hyped, it can generate disappointment. The Vanguard-hater with the lies and dishonesty might discourage people who might really enjoy the game. I just feel that the community in the Vanguard section is not being served (I think a lot of people feel this way but have given-up on doing anything to change it).
Edit: I think my response about my integrity was a bit heavy-handed and over-the-top as well. I apologize as well. I look forward to our continued discussion on MMORPG topics and issues. It has been great so far.
lol your writing style reminds me that of brad mcsquid himself. so technically you are not getting paid what so ever. most of your posts are short novels and do nothing but ass kiss the creaters and everything about this game. same deal as some of the shills from dark and light. can see your viral marketing plan is working....
oh ya and your complete BS lies are much like brad's. though there are a few vanbois here that have that same style. same person or you guys just brad clones?
anyways i bought this game despite what everyone was saying and i have to say i aggree more with the haters about this game. I am still playing till my sub runs out but that is it. i always buy mmo's a few months after release, if the devs dont have crap worked out by then, then its too late in my books. brad wants people to keep resubbing while he basically just said the game wont be released till the end of the year again with a nge.
so keep feeding possible subscribers bullshi* all you want. in the end people will make up their own minds like i did and say screw brad, his vision, and all the crap brad and company spew forth. the concept of the game was nice but thats about it.
my whole time on these boards since 2004. i have never actually supported a game on these boards either. just post what i see as the truth in my own eyes. what i hate about alot of mmo devs and game mods is the BS they spin to us the consumer thinking we are daft and will resub to their game because they tell us so. i own every mmo that has a box that was sold in north america. i pretty much beta every game then buy like i said a few months after release. knowing that brad is the king of the viral marketing strategy i make sure i dont get sucked in to the lies much more then ever. some games i like to believe what the devs say about their game but in all honesty its all but a pack of lies. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MIGHTY $$$. any company will say anything for that mighty $.
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I was anticipating this comment, which is more powerfully offensive to me than you probably know.
lol your writing style reminds me that of brad mcsquid himself. so technically you are not getting paid what so ever. most of your posts are short novels and do nothing but ass kiss the creaters and everything about this game. same deal as some of the shills from dark and light. can see your viral marketing plan is working....
(rolls eyes)I have ironically been censored on forums (not MMORPG) for my criticism of SIGIL (Brad's) unethical viral marketing. And the irony is the lunacy of this viral marketing (as a victim of it) that I am now accused of it. The irony is truly amusing to me as much as it is troubling. I have decided to block you, because I sense some (not all) Vanguard-haters seek to not engage in thoughtful or meaningful discussion but point their fingers and say, "viral marketer" or "van-boi" or "mcsquid himself." The poster actually accused me, at least impliedly, of being "mcsquid himself." LOL.
(blushes) I feel a bit foolish wasting my time replying to some of these remarkable (though slightly amusing) accusations. As I write this, I am not sure if I am offended or flattered. I feel a bit more... troubled, however. Edit: Actually, I feel somewhat sad for what some haters (and lovers) of Vanguard are doing to the quality of the posts in this section. It is sad.
I am reluctant to ask, as I typically do not engage in a serious discussion with Vanguard-haters. Nevertheless, I will ask if you state this based on experience or assumption? That is, if you are not currently playing and assuming that the game is not "delivered," then I believe you are deceiving and being dishonest to this community.
I think there is a (very) fine line here between assumption and flat-out lie as well.
Edit: To be clear, if you are commenting on the present state of the game yet do not play the game, then you are not in a credible (qualified) position to make those comments. Your comments are then nothing but assumptions (lies?).
That statement that "present = Vanguard/Sigil/Brad do not deliver" is based on Brads many statements to the community, stating in no uncertain terms that in its present state Vanguard doesn't deliver. Actually it's quite ironic that you believe I might be being deceptive and dishonest to the community after I merely regurgitate what Brad has already stated to it!
A fine line between assumption and flat-out lie? I think Brad puts them both in the "viral marketing" category, yes?
My coments are merely Brads comments nothing more. If you have a statement where Brad says he believes VG has delivered please post the link. If you feel it has delivered for you then fine that's your opinion, but VG hasn't delivered financially and that's what VG is all about for Brad. The reason it hasn't delivered financially is because it hasn't delivered on the vision that so many customers were sold pre-release.
I'd be interested to know if and why you disagree/agree with me.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Moved from Vanguard-forum to Rumor Room.