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Deep RPG or Glorified Guild Wars?
burdock2
Member UncommonPosts: 420
Just wanted to know,
Is the game going to be a persistant online world where if you wish, you can RP to your hearts content - solo and quest? End game? Or is another Guild Wars where the whole purpose of the game is just PvP?
Thanks.
I am not a huge fan of the latter so if its the former, I will play. Otherwise I will continute with LOTRO.
Comments
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
I am pretty sure Devs would not react like you.
May I remember you, since you obviously forget, that the warhammer franchise appeal to a LOT of peoples who are not especially REAL TIME PvP-fans, even less RvR as you seems to implies?
WAR may has a huge component to PvP...even to RvR. But what would be the point to get a franchise and then ignore the fanbase of said franchise? 90% of the warhammer fans are either PvE or GBT fans, nothing to do with RvR. I am sure the RvR will be sweat in that game, but to say that nothing else will be, or that PvE won't be, I am not believing you.
I am pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of players that will come to WAR will have little PvP interest (even less RvR real time interest), not opposed to it litteraly, but not really interested by it. To make it a must, even in endgame, would be a bold move to say the least.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
[quote]
90% of the warhammer fans are either PvE or GBT fans, nothing to do with RvR.
[/quote]
... please go read a couple of the fansites, im not even sure we are talking about the same game.
i dont mean to be rude, but are you high? WAR is being billed as an rvr game, everything relates to PvP / RvR, everything paul has said about this game is about killing other players.
we disagree entirely on this
anyhow, im sure that there are going to be rp servers, mythic have already been talking about them, so the OPs concerns can be laid to rest.
The two podcasts below explain as best I can understand. Start heavy PvE with a little PvP(RvR) on the side, but by stage 4 its mostly PvP(RvR) with some PvE.
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/Tir-RvR_explaination_final.html
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/pp_TypesofRvR_bitrate.html
Die Noctique, By Day and Night
I am pretty sure Devs would not react like you.
May I remember you, since you obviously forget, that the warhammer franchise appeal to a LOT of peoples who are not especially REAL TIME PvP-fans, even less RvR as you seems to implies?
WAR may has a huge component to PvP...even to RvR. But what would be the point to get a franchise and then ignore the fanbase of said franchise? 90% of the warhammer fans are either PvE or GBT fans, nothing to do with RvR. I am sure the RvR will be sweat in that game, but to say that nothing else will be, or that PvE won't be, I am not believing you.
I am pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of players that will come to WAR will have little PvP interest (even less RvR real time interest), not opposed to it litteraly, but not really interested by it. To make it a must, even in endgame, would be a bold move to say the least.
Now I'm really not sure how you would play the table top PVE. Doesn't really seem that much fun to play by myself really. 90% of table top players I'd say are into head to head battles or player versus player. I'm not sure how many warhammer fans are WFRPG players, but in my estimation based on the availablitity of the minitatures that table top is the most popular form. So I'm not exactly sure you know what your talking about in terms of the IP.
The devs have stated that their will be PVE but even it will add to the RVR. I'm all for devs making a game they think would be fun instead of worrying about what the "potential" customer "potentially" wants. Also this game has gotten alot of hype off of just this. If people weren't interested in an RVR centric game would the hype be so high? It may be that many Warhammer fans are interested in PVE, but being such a competitive game, I can't see many Warhammer fans shying away from PVP.
Role Playing as used for RP table top games, where you take up the role of a character and try to play this role with depth, character, flaws, and strengths, is the mostly used and mostly accepted way to explain it.
Role Playing in video games though started when the companies wanted to describe quite a diferent thing, they used the term to describe games that used predefined roles for character and that you the player usually had to choose one of these roles, the warrior, the wizard, the thief, etc. etc.
While it may still seem the same to many it isn't, the first is quite dynamic and the only limitations that exist are the players imagination and talent to act many diferent roles even with the same class, the second is just a choise of which class to use to finish the game.
Now some will say that in mmorpgs you can find both uses of the term, they are not wrong, you can definately find the second explanation, but the first, well.....the best way i can describe it is....
Role Playing in mmorpgs is like eating a soup with a fork, it is definately doable, but it needs effort, determination, and it will never be fully satisfying.
On the other hand knowing your enemy and why you must hate him, is an enviroment that promotes alot of role playing oportunities, be it because someone decides to fully embrace his factions beliefs and even become a fanatic, or at the total oposite of creating the black sheep of the race, he who despices all that his race stands for.
There are ways to promote role playing in the game no matter what the enviroment is, believe it or not with a few key academic changes even guild wars could have a role playing community, i hope Mythic finds those tricks to promote role playing especially on their RP servers, but trying to predict this is not an easy task, it all comes down to if it will attract the role playing community once it launces, time will tell.
There is another way some understand RP which is totaly wrong, for some RP means Not PvP, this is totaly wrong, the game is abouting beating your opponents, but that does not mean that you can't do it with style.
I've been playing the TTG for 17years. It is not about PvP. It's a strategy game.
Now we finally get to play as one of our miniatures. This is going to be fun.
I am pretty sure Devs would not react like you.
May I remember you, since you obviously forget, that the warhammer franchise appeal to a LOT of peoples who are not especially REAL TIME PvP-fans, even less RvR as you seems to implies?
WAR may has a huge component to PvP...even to RvR. But what would be the point to get a franchise and then ignore the fanbase of said franchise? 90% of the warhammer fans are either PvE or GBT fans, nothing to do with RvR. I am sure the RvR will be sweat in that game, but to say that nothing else will be, or that PvE won't be, I am not believing you.
I am pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of players that will come to WAR will have little PvP interest (even less RvR real time interest), not opposed to it litteraly, but not really interested by it. To make it a must, even in endgame, would be a bold move to say the least.
you couldnt be more wrong, warhammer is a table top game and alot of warhammer games have been rts games..both of these put emphasis on player vs player, be it on a table top game or an rts.....then again you have mythic who made daoc so there will be a huge rvr playerbase in the game also...the minority of players will be people who have interest in pve...why play war if your only interested in pve..theres loads of pve games out there...i dont think war is the game for you if your not into rvr or think that most players will be pve fans....your so wrong in your post.....and where did you pull that statistic out of anyway....war is about war not raiding....your obviously trolling here, enjoy wow.But we can all agree it will be an impressive launch, minimal bugs and glitchs + smooth game play, this is Mythic... and it's WAR time! Also I would imagine there would be RPers, hell the warhammer universe has been around for a long long time, so there is alot of lore to go with.
how can you say that without having played the game..its just your opinion on a game you havent even played, which isnt a very valid one, and the game does have crafting and will be more complexed than wow's crafting system not that wow had much in the way of a complexed crafting system.Well noone has played the game yet but this is just our opinions we are posting. Judging from the cinematics we all have seen if you do not say it looks like wow then you need to look again. The only thing missing are elves so they made chaos instead of elves
Now will it be a good MMO ? I really hope so because the gaming communtiy needs a really good MMO to play but it doesn't look so appealing when WAR has almost the same races as WOW does
Can we be a tad bit original for a change or is that asking too much from the game makers ?
Yup SaintViktor may as well have pulled down his pance and accepted the rape that was to follow there.
Orcs in WoW and Orcs in WAR..... COPY!!!!!! (This is the thought pattern of an idiot)
Infact the more I see of WAR, the less and less it reminds me of anything, the orcs look diffrent, humans all look diffrent, the clothes and way they develop look unique, I can imagine that the Role Players there going to get a rich experiance from this and for the PvPers too it will yeild just as many rewards.
Die Noctique, By Day and Night
Some of us have been playing MMO's for a long time now, and the WoW generation (And some fanbois) need to take a step back and think before they put there fingers on the keyboard.
Die Noctique, By Day and Night
Yes, I understand that WoW is one of the most popular MMOs out there and therefore the easiest to compare with as most people have played it, but err.. I stop here as I don't want to sound either Warhammer Fanboyish, nor violent, but seriously. Get a grip.
Edit: Wow I forgot to answer to the topic.
Alright: The whole consept of the game is based around war, and therefore the PvP is quite dominating, but Mythis have clearly stated that you can play through the game in both PvE and PvP, and there will be something to do for every taste for both casual and harcore players.
"What's a cocksmoker?"
you are probably trolling, but on the off chance that you are serious i thought it might be a good idea for you to know a few things:
1. WoW was not the first MMO ever, in fact the only original design idea that wow introduced was... meeting stones.
2. The IP that WAR is based on predates warcraft by about 20 years.
3. WoW copied a lot of stuff from that IP.
4. WoWs gameplay is comparitivly simple, raid, get loot, pwn nubs. WAR is aiming for something a bit more... substantial.
anyhow, if you think WAR is a WoW copy then im not going to carry on arguing, i wish you all the best with whatever raid you and your guild are on atm, and hope that you get your next purple item.
(but i would seriously go and edit those posts)
Well noone has played the game yet but this is just our opinions we are posting. Judging from the cinematics we all have seen if you do not say it looks like wow then you need to look again. The only thing missing are elves so they made chaos instead of elves
Now will it be a good MMO ? I really hope so because the gaming communtiy needs a really good MMO to play but it doesn't look so appealing when WAR has almost the same races as WOW does
Can we be a tad bit original for a change or is that asking too much from the game makers ?
*falls right out of her seat trying to hold in her brains as they ooze out from the sheer lack of KNOWLEDGE in this post*
Have you never read a book? Have you never played a game outside of PC and console games? Has your whole gaming experience only been video games, has your mmo experience only been WoW?
First came Lord of the Rings, one of the greatest fantasy books ever written. Then D&D Pen n Paper RPG's. Somewhere along the line or around the same time came WarHammer a Table Top Stragedy game and then all the fantasy board games you can't find in your local toy store.
Then video games came along which were inspired by these great games and other ones like it. Although history of how the races came to life, or where they live or their abilities vary one thing has kind of remained the same between these fantasy worlds, the name of the race and in most cases the basic look. Warhammer is sticking to its races, there's tons of them and if you've played enough games you've probably played a version of them or a race like them.
Warcraft was inspired (and according to gossip originally supposed to be the first warhammer game) by warhammer. Get your facts right if your going to spout off.
Whats even funnier is you say "there's no elves" Hello! They have High elves AND Dark elves. From what all the pod casts say, reviews from people who've played the alpha demo at shows the game is not like wow.
If you bring it down to the level of art style WOW inspired their style from Warhammer first since they've always has a more cartoony stylized art style.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Hey by all means comments I made were no knock on the game. Its just that when you look at the game and the way it looks it seems to remind you of WOW. Thats all it was meant to be so don't beat me up too bad just cause I made an opinion, oh and sorry about the elves thing they have dark elves hences night elves lol. Anyway, I hope the game does well. Who knows maybe I will give it a shot when i look at more info on it.
My first MMO was FFXi and when I first saw WOW, i was like whoah this is like FFXI but only easier. Have fun all !
However if your compairing WoW to FF XI just shows your happy to stumble in to a game and take your opinion from there.
Read the sticky at the top for a start.
Warhammer is Older than Warcraft in time its been out as far as its IP goes and EARLY Warcraft was based on Warhammer.
In computer game time scales though Warhammer goes back to 1995 were as Warcraft was out in 1994.
Then you look at the year 1983 when the original table top game was relised and realise that Warhammer is a much older product, everything your looking at SaintViktor is based on Warhammer.
Both Warhammer and Warcraft have been around a long time in the computer games industry, However Warcraft is only called Warcraft because Games Workshop pulled the plug on Blizzards game and oped for Shadow Of the Horned Rat at the time, as it was more based on how there table top game ran.
Humans - All MMO's have Humans.
Orcs - The Majority of MMOs feature Orcs in them in one way or another.
Yet people instantly oped for a easy WoW way out, without knowing all the facts,
I mean did you know that Games Workshop own the rights to all Lord of the Rings table top games?
Mythic are developing a game for Games Workshop and no matter how much power EA now have in development if this company decided it does not want the game that way then they will pull the plug and all rights.
Die Noctique, By Day and Night
Let's take a serious look at what you have just said.
Night Elves in the Warcraft World. Pink/purple skin, very long ears, very in tune with nature. Tree huggers if you will.
Dark Elves in the Warhammer World. Light pale skin, look exactly like the High Elves as they are true cousins. Dark, Evil, Cruel, Chaotic.
Now, let's look at pictures of each type of Elf.
The Night Elf from World of Warcraft
And now...here is the Dark Elves.
Take a very good look at both of those pictures. Dark Elves from Warhammer and Night Elves are absolutely nothing alike. In fact, their whole philosophical outlook in life are completely opposite in every way.
Here are a couple of descriptions just so you can get an idea of just how twisted the Dark Elven Race is.
(All following text taken from the Games Workshop Online Store under the respective Dark Elf Army listing)
Cold and heartless, the armies of Dark Elves launch raids that enslave thousands, whilst every day hundreds are sacrificed on the altars of the dark god Khaine, Lord of Murder.
Witch Elves are the maiden-elves who are wedded to Khaine, the Lord of Murder, in the midnight rites of blood sacrifice and magic. The decadent, fragile looks of the maidens of Ulthuan are nothing compared to the intoxicating beauty of the Witch Elves. Many are willing to die (and, indeed, often do) to see but a smile on the blood-red lips of the Witch Elves. Do not desire the touch of a Maibd, a bride of Khaine, for her life is wholly given to the Lord of Murder, and he is a jealous god, unwilling to share his chosen ones.
The nobles of the Druchii ride to battle atop ancient reptiles known as Cold Ones. Only very few Dark Elves can take up the arms of the Cold One Knights, for the lizards savagely attack all who come near them, recognizing warm-blooded creatures by their smell. To avoid this the Cold One Knights anoint themselves with the poisonous slime of the Cold Ones so the beasts will accept them. There is a great price to pay though, for the poison numbs the senses so that the riders can no longer taste food or feel a touch. But it is a price worth paying, for the charge of the Cold One cavalry can shatter even the strongest enemy line.
An army of Druchii does not fight with silvered steel alone, for there are other powerful forces which can be bent to the will of a brave army general. Call upon the Convents of the Sorceresses and entreat their aid, for their magical prowess will blight the warriors of the opposing army, scorch their souls from their bodies and bring ruination and curses aplenty upon their heads. Be careful in your dealings with these beautiful creatures though, for there is always a price to pay for their aid... always!
Since the distant days of Nagarythe, Dark Elves have been experts at bending beasts and animals to their will. However, some show exeptional aptitude in this, and can command even the unruliest beasts with a single word. They are the famed Beastmasters. When a child shows talent for taming animals he is sent to the city of Karond Kar to study under the masters who dwell there. The Beastmasters are also in charge of the slaves, for humans, orcs and their like are no more than beasts themselves to the Dark Elves. Beastmasters are experts at getting the most out of their stock, and are always chosen from amongst the most robust and resourceful of the Dark Elves.
Given all this information, tell me again how they are even close to that of the Night Elves of Warcraft?I expect there will be simular amounts of 'RP' as you find in most other MMOs. I certainly do not expect to see more RP in WAR.
It does not sound like you will have a choice to be 'protected' from PvP or the Effects of RvR, etc. So even if you don't actively engage in PvP, you will be exposed to it most of the time.
How big will WAR's PvE game be? We will have to wait for retail.
In short WAR will (hopefully) be the Anti-LoTRO game, filled with RvR/PvP, challenging game play, dark atmosphere, etc.
I do hope they offer a lot of WH Lore, and build a strong persitant world, but a persitant world based around one thrown into a massive world War.
Rople playing can happen anywhere at anytime, it only requires initiative, imagination and Perseverance.
Two golden examples which i am sure are not the only ones of how RP can be done in the most harsh PvP enviroments.
Player killing was never more honorable than this: The Adventures of Adam Ant and teh Guardians of Undead Lords.
Even their victims are glad to have been their prey as now they are part of a great story.
The Guardians of Light I came to know them in DAoC, a group of people that never shied from PvP, on the contrary they fully embraced it in all the games they enetered and could find it, but at the same time they never went Out of Character.
You can find many many other examples too, of how role playing fits in any and every playstyle.
So, if your creativity needs to be limited and narrowed into a small and completely controlled environment, then yeah, life will suck at WAR. Don't worry though, there may be RP servers to suit your needs.