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LOTRO
Ceridan
Member UncommonPosts: 31
Why have games started doing this:
1. Player caps on raids - I understand the horrors that are brought by allowing huge raids, but is the alternative worth it? EQ2 had player caps on raids and what this did was make my SK toon a handicapp. I was more of a hinderance than an asset. Eventually the raids were full of wizards and assasins and the rest had to wait on the sidelines or start a wizard of our own. EQ1 had it right, yes the big bad zerg guilds were able to complete more raids than the smaller ones but eventually the big guys would break down and new ones would rise. I'd just like to see a natural flow of things over this horrible solution to a minor problem.
2. Icons(rings in this case) above a quest giver's head - Not sure what MMO started this stupid trend but it really takes away from the immersion of the world and I would think immersion was priority #1 for LOTRO. Simple hand gestures by a quest giver when you get close would be a more sensable solution.
3. Instancing - BLAHHHHH Can't believe this feature is taking up 20% of the game!!!!!!!!! Instancing is just another half ass solution to a minor problem and I'd rather the devs came up with a more thought out solution to over crowding and competition than making multiples of the same zone. I'm hoping someone can explain in better detail how exactly instancing is being used in this game.
Other than these three things I love what I'm hearing about the game. Unfortunatly I fear these are things that will never change in this game. They are also the same three things that bothered me the most about EQ2 and eventually forced me to stop playing.
Does anyone out there feel the same way or am I judging to harshly?
Comments
1. Player caps are there for a reason and it's not to make your lives miserable. The thing is back in EQ1, there are no instanced dungeons so every dungeon is a shared world dungeon. In order to make encounters as challenging as possible the developers have to go for the overkill in order not to make the content trivial. With instancing and instance caps developers are able to fine tune their dungeons and encounters better and allow a more personal and private gaming challenge.
2. The icons above the npc's head was in widespread use in World of Warcraft. Back in EQ1 you have to hail every npcs you met to see if they have anything interesting to say to you. With the quest icons it allows the developers to catch the player's attention by signalling that this particular npc has a quest/task for you.
3. The main purpose of instancing is to be able for the game developers to craft an interesting and personal game experience for you. It is also possible to use it to alleviate some overcrowding and griefing problems in an mmorpg environment. Now instancing is a two way sword. Too much instancing can be detrimental to the social interaction and community of the game. That is why I opt for games that has a good mix of instanced and shared world dungeons.
I am sorry that you didn't enjoy these feaatures of a modern mmorpg but as you know mmorpgs are a constantly evolving beasts and someday new design features will be invented that will make you enjoy MMO games again.
The number of Npcs and overall townsfolks/farmers merchants,npcs extras is fairly numerous in this game and having a icon for quests/to denote light armour seller,grocer ect. is very welcomed IMO and really saves you time from running around and looking for them or spaming the OCC chat or forum.
As For instancing,all of the areas save the starter instance(lv5) I have been able to explore/hunt ect without having to instance if i wished.
the instancing alows you to finish major story arcs/quests or npcs rescues ect. dont be turned off by that.
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I totally feel the same way ive actually played it and to be honest it didnt feel differant then wow, It has nice environments but it still didnt feel unique and fun, if there combat was less clunky and fast paced I may give it a try again, but I loved eq2 combat way better then lotro or even wow, it has done many things right but it also has done the same thing as most games out at the moment.
Also I get mixed feelings about instancing, when your instance with a group it does not feel like your part of the world anymore, I kind of prefer to run into other plays in dungeons and etc, but then again I would miss our own unique storys and adventure with myself or a group.
Quest icons are good. Having to talk to every NPC or use a guide is annoying and also breaks immersion. "I know you're a hero and all, but I can't go find you. You have to come to me. So what if I look like every other joe? You're a hero. You're here to run my fedex quest. Right? I thought so." If anything, if the quest givers chased the player down, that would make things interesting.
Instances. They're both good and bad. The most awful occurrence of instances that most players neglect to mention is when the whole server is "instanced". Also known as sharding. Instances keep you from meeting with other people in a pick up and play fashion. Sharding keeps me from meeting other people IRL and joining them and making new friends using a shared hobby, like how other hobbies are used. I can play the same game as some of my IRL friends, but I'll never see them because we're on different servers. This is the biggest fail ever. I want a MASSIVELY multiplayer game, not a large number of identical multiplayer games.
- Quest giver symbols. Because time is money and I don't want to spend hours looking. In real life, I would remember the position, the gestures, the figure, the face, the voice of the "npc" and would recognize him much easier. Quest Symbols simulate this. Plus you cannot talk to all filler NPCs in town. Imagine hailing all "citizens" and asking for work, too stupid...
- Instancing. Non-instanced dungeons = train stations. Get in line for a sandwich, meet up people everywhere. So hey, you're right there in the eerie dungeon, dozens of stalwart adventurers perished in it, bones all around, long faded torches and ancient statues, traps... oh, and another 28 players running wildly through the maze building crowds where "the ancient evil undefeated gargoyle of old" spawns, every 4 minutes, just to be killed, and to reincarnate again... OH MY GOD, why do people still ask "why instancing?"... - Perhaps because dangerous places are not meant to be crammed to the rim with a stream of neverending adventurers coming and going... its friggin MEANT to be SPECIAL!!
Meridion
Raid caps stop zerging, true, but I didn't hear anyone comment on the negatives of player capping which is the inability for anyone to join a raid. I enjoy raiding because I like raiding. I don't like staying on for an hour waiting to raid only to not be brought. I don't understand why people like this feature.
If only quest givers have symbols on their head, than whats stupid is wasting the time to create citizens that don't have a symbol on their head. They might as well be a lamp post. Why dont game developers make every single person have a purpose? why are their hundreds of Joe shmoes with nothing to say? why dont they have a life? If developers just gave every single person in the game something worthwhile to say then we wouldnt need stupid symbols.
I don't like instancing because it turns the MMORPG into a MORPG. Some people enjoy the random thrills of having to co exist with other people in game. I have beem playing MMO's with the expecation that I will get that experience. If I want to play an online game with just a few friends I'd get a game that does that. However, I would hope not to see it cataloged under MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER, that would just be misleading.
2) Because not every john smith on the streets supposed to have a quest for you AND because designing stories for every NPC around costs too much money...
3) Wrong. You meet massive amounts of players almost everywhere, on the street of a city and at the next best world spawn, at events, even in the darkest world zones (which is strange enough by itself). So why on earth would one want to put up with other people even in DUNGEONs.
TBH - Whats authentic. Is it authentic that a realm of the size of a carribean mini-island has a 3:1 population of wild, fearless fierce adventurers? Is it authentic that you run into arms-packed killermachines every five meters, guys who are constantly willing to risk their lives (yay, another deadly quest, I'm in) and permanently doing something "productive"? - The answer is NO, so instancing at least dungeons is one way to bring a little authenticity back into a game.
and a sidenote: How can you possibly roleplay 30 other people in a dungeon thats supposed to be dangerous. This has always smashed my sense for good roleplaying to pieces instantly. You lose track of how your character might feel within a second while watching dancing, queueing people at a spawnspot....
So yes, instancing IS good... at least if you don't overuse it (like Guildwars does)
Meridion
As Meridon stated about the other NPC's is correct
and In Lotr case they have done a good job of having the none quest Npcs actually filling in and adding to a normally boring scene of passing npcs on the streets ect.
They have someing singing,dancing,claping to music ect or mumbling about having to walk about on gard duty/watch ect as well as taunting the prisoners in stokades.
There's alot but there actually nicely added in.
As for instancing..think its the sign of the times its here for the long haul.
ok, its no challenge to run a 5man instance with 15 players
but then again why do you do instances?
the majority does the same instance again and again for some items
the more players join your group the bigger the chance
that someone else will take the item you want if it drops
so i dont think that we need this restiction
its already balanced by itself
the more players you got in your raid the faster you will run trough
but the smaller the chance that you will get what your want
the nice think about this would be that people like me who just
want to explore a dungeon once and dont have the time to play 4hours without break
could simply join such oversized raids and therefore would also have some benefit from
the longer dungeons
they most likely wouldnt get the good items but they could also benefit from the content
Pi*1337/100 = 42
at least where you say that instancing ruins immersion.
How so?
If anything instancing is one of the few things that maintains immersion. Going into an unknown dungeon or crypt (what have you) and seeing people running all over the place like idiots only to then find the boss and have everyone standing around waiting for the spawn is not immersion. It is ridiculous and borders on a disney world ride.
Well, that's fine if you like a Theme park ride. But if I am in an area that is supposed to be lost and forgotten then I want my group to be the only one who's there.
this is not to say that all dungeons (or their equivalent) should be instanced. But anything that is story based or has a major raid boss cannot have a line outside.
The only caveat to that would be a pvp game. In this way ONE of you would get the boss or die fighting over it.
Also, I like the markers over the quest givers heads. I don't want to go around clicking on every npc for a quest.
I will say that if I got a letter in the player mail from a particular npc indicating that they knew of a "job" I might like, well, that could be interesting. In other words, other ways of receiving info on quests.
But when I sign in I want to play. Not waste time clicking on npcs only to then have to log off having done nothing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'm sorry but how does seeing less people in a dungeon add to immersion if the game world outside is horribly over crowded. I would rather developers either A add more content to to reach the desired effect of 10-20 people per dungeon. Or B have less people per game world to fit the amount of content they have created.
This new instancing trend etc is making my cry and hate mmorpgs... Maybe they'll make good mmorpg someday without these "options".
D&D is about the small party going through dungeons. That is why I think they did a good job in concept. I would rather say that D&D doesn't fit online game conventions well which is why people can't appreciate it or accept it for what it is.
The outside game world is inconsequential.
You can't have an open game world and have people grinding off mobs. That's not D&D. What I didn't like about it (given that I accepted the concept) was that it was a bit too cutsey for me as well as hating the "Island Setting".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo