Is it really swg or Soe

sadnebula · May 2007

I just got a case of the ass at a post in the current forums about asking us old vets to bug off, and i ranted on it.

Now i ask, and think about it ..... Is it really the game or was it the betrayal from soe that causes such hard feelings about swg.

Yes the game is different now, but imho, it is still as good as what has been released in the past few months. no it's not the old swg. but looking anew, it's still a good game. I'm not talking about the old game, that was unmatched hands down. but the new game, say it just released and it's a mondo production, would you still be dogging it ?

Now as to a view on the SOE hate. Really, we were betrayed by soe. They took our game and changed it for no reason other than to make more money and compete with wow. They pretty much showed us, that we, the loyal customer base did not matter, and we left a game we enjoyed and have been bitter ever since. Every game that has soe somewhere on the box is ranted about on the forums. So is it the game in this case or is everyone still mad as hell at soe and not missing a chance to show it?

GO FOR IT

Zuel41 · May 2007

The issue for me is that they took away eveything that I had work to get. I was no jedi mind you. I was a BH. I had amassed tons of weapons, weapon enhancements, armor enhancements, attachments and other loot to make my charecter effective. They also took away crafters. Crafters that I had forged relationships with to make the best possible weapons, armor, foods and buffs. They left no reason for those people to play, and they took that relationship away from me.

So for me, they took away the most compelling parts of the game. The parts of the game that made SWG different and enjoyable. They left the parts of the game that every other game out there had, combat. And the combat system they put in is the worst system I have ever played.

So in one stupid swipe, they took out all of the compelling game play components and put in a crappy combat system.

This is why i really dislike SOE. I really liked the old game, so much so I played for 2 years almost every day.

ShiloFields · May 2007

Originally posted by sadnebula

but the new game, say it just released and it's a mondo production, would you still be dogging it ?

I suppose if you hate Star Wars the current game launched new might be ok. But even as a new release the game is an insult to Star War fans as it makes a mockery of the movies.

whitedelight · May 2007

Originally posted by sadnebula

I just got a case of the ass at a post in the current forums about asking us old vets to bug off, and i ranted on it.

Now i ask, and think about it ..... Is it really the game or was it the betrayal from soe that causes such hard feelings about swg.

Yes the game is different now, but imho, it is still as good as what has been released in the past few months. no it's not the old swg. but looking anew, it's still a good game. I'm not talking about the old game, that was unmatched hands down. but the new game, say it just released and it's a mondo production, would you still be dogging it ?

Now as to a view on the SOE hate. Really, we were betrayed by soe. They took our game and changed it for no reason other than to make more money and compete with wow. They pretty much showed us, that we, the loyal customer base did not matter, and we left a game we enjoyed and have been bitter ever since. Every game that has soe somewhere on the box is ranted about on the forums. So is it the game in this case or is everyone still mad as hell at soe and not missing a chance to show it?

GO FOR IT

It wasnt about the success though. It was that they advertised the game to be a certain way, and made it that way. Then, in a short period of time, took what people enjoyed about it, and removed it. Changed the way the game was if you will.

[Deleted User] · May 2007

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Mahakali · May 2007

It's the game.

There is so much to be said about the whole CU and NGE, and how it was introduced that I won't even bother. But face it, if they had replaced it with something which was running smoothly, was actually "fun and exciting", it would be different. Its the worst kind of cop out to say that people who doesn't want chicken McNuggets to use previous posters analogy are just afraid to try new things. Well, OK, if the McNuggets were at least warm, fresh and tasty, then perhaps. But when they are burnt on the outside, frozen in the middle, and smell vaguely of rotten vegetables and stale frying oil is dripping from them, its a bit much to blame people for not enjoying them. And yes, I would still like the real meal, not the done in half a minute version.

Since I play EQ2 I have a station access and occasionally visit SWG. I was looking forward to chapter 6, even made a char on TC. But while I was testing I was just overcome by... battlefatigue (TM). I tested the CU and wrote tons on the forums of constructive feedback, it was still pushed out although it wasnt what people wanted and it wasn't ready to go live, I tested the NGE and wrote feedback and everyone asked them to at least finish the betatest for the NGE but nope, no, and now, 1½ years later when I figure it surely must be playable and I get kinda curious to actually PLAY IT, I find myself on the TC again testing a new "combat revamp"

I still hope to play it, its hard to not be curious, but its more in a "what ever will they do next?" kindathing. If SWG was a tv show it would be a crazy soap opera with new dramatic turns every episode, and it would be the kind of show where the character were constantly being played by new actors so you had to work at keeping track of who is who. But at a certain point, when you have followed the intrigues and dramas long enough, its hard to walk away. Doesn't mean you would nominate it for en Emmy though.

Besides, whatever game I have ever played, there is instant bonding with other SWG orphans, so even if the community died with the CU/NGE, it lives on in its own way

Guess I didn't even answer.

No, for me it's the game itself that just isn't good enough. Like someone else said before in a different thread - they took out every unique selling point the game had despite its shortcomings, and replaced them with extremely bad copies of cookie cutter features from random other games, sloppily glued together. And now it seems they are drawing random design features out of a hat and tossing them into the mix at will, still after a year and a half.

Shayde · May 2007

It's the game.

If they put up pre-cu servers I'd resubscribe like a stupid ass. I wouldn't be alone.

Dvol · May 2007

Originally posted by Shayde

It's the game.

If they put up pre-cu servers I'd resubscribe like a stupid ass. I wouldn't be alone.

Same here id resub all 4 accounts and never look back...

thamathar · May 2007

Originally posted by Shayde

It's the game.

If they put up pre-cu servers I'd resubscribe like a stupid ass. I wouldn't be alone.

Same here ... and all my friend's from SWG would do the same, and many of them play WoW and would quite wow for SWG Pre-CU

Shayde · May 2007

Originally posted by thamathar

Originally posted by Shayde

It's the game.

If they put up pre-cu servers I'd resubscribe like a stupid ass. I wouldn't be alone.

Same here ... and all my friend's from SWG would do the same, and many of them play WoW and would quite wow for SWG Pre-CU

I could guarantee about 50 in my extended guild who would hate themselves when they make their first payment to $OE.

Well.. the EMU awaits, eh?

thamathar · May 2007

Originally posted by Shayde

Originally posted by thamathar

Originally posted by Shayde

It's the game.

If they put up pre-cu servers I'd resubscribe like a stupid ass. I wouldn't be alone.

Same here ... and all my friend's from SWG would do the same, and many of them play WoW and would quite wow for SWG Pre-CU

I could guarantee about 50 in my extended guild who would hate themselves when they make their first payment to $OE.

Well.. the EMU awaits, eh? Yap, at this time the best think we have is the Emu, but something is telling me when the Emu cames out the SOE will put some Pre-Cu server's for sure

Rosaleen_Dhu · May 2007

One can only hope.

xPaladin · May 2007

For me, it's a little of both. Initially, I had an idea of what exactly I was getting into playing a Verant/SOE game... I honestly expected to take it up the ass some patches. But what wound up happening surprised even me. As SWG unfolded, various levels of complete incompetency were unveiled, patch by patch.

It initially culminated in the catastrophe that was the hologrind: a betrayal of the playerbase that ultimately killed off a good chunk of the community. I know for fact -- it wiped my friends list out almost completely and killed PvP for several months while people chased that Magic Kingdom in the Sky. Luckily it was near Christmas time, so new folks signed on and were immediately subjected to the Hologrind... after it was secretly switched from 4+1 to unlock Jedi to 4+4.

Fast forward a few months. Jedi got rampant and numerous due to nerfs to permadeath. Jedi got several patches of love, aka "balance fixes," generally leaving all other professions in the dust... especially after removing defense stacking. While my friends list remained pretty solid, a few people who were sordidly anti-jedi dropped off over time.

Enter the CU. A complete switcheroo to the game, and yet another SOE fiasco: releasing an unfinished product. Worse was that a significant amount of players disliked the system at all. And worse, it rendered some of the non-combat elements of the game useless beyond a roleplaying scope. Protests are held all over Bloodfin (and the boards, and the Internets). A month later, my friends list goes to hell again. Interestingly, a few months later, things picked up. The CU actually started to look promising, although still broken for low levels.

Then the NGE came about and destroyed everything. We all know what happened there, but my personal take on it's effects on the community is that it was just too soon after the CU. Things hadn't totally healed with the changes the CU brought, and people were still trying to understand the changes to their professions, or why non-combat was being thrown in the toilet.

But these are the large scale things. Smaller things happened too, such as endless promises to the Smuggler communities that were never fulfilled, Droid engineers being neglected, Bioengineer and Creature Handling being removed from the game...

SOE's warcry the entire time is that the playerbase demanded these changes by voting in numbers. An interesting but short sighted spin, considering that if only a few paths are actually viable, players will only journey down the most profitable or beneficial path. A creature handler was a Jedi chewtoy. Their later warcries would try to define Star Wars itself and even the players role within it.

The bottom line with SWG is that SOE created a world that was player defined, and then reshaped it to be SOE-defined. That is the best approach to pissing your userbase off: sweep the rug out from under their feet. Something anti-vet flamers should consider is that long time veterans fell for it time and again, even before the NGE was unleashed.

I'd been keeping a distant vigil, but i've no hope for either a Pre-CU or the EMU project. The original community and ideals that it supported are all dead. Whatever didn't die changed as would be expected, but becomes more and more xenophobic with each attack on their game. It is easy to target and blame jilted vets, but to the open minded I share these words as a precautionary warning: you are indeed dealing with a monster. The things that happened to us can indeed happen to you.

Vortex500 · May 2007

Originally posted by xPaladin

<snip>

I'd been keeping a distant vigil, but i've no hope for either a Pre-CU or the EMU project. The original community and ideals that it supported are all dead. Whatever didn't die changed as would be expected, but becomes more and more xenophobic with each attack on their game. It is easy to target and blame jilted vets, but to the open minded I share these words as a precautionary warning: you are indeed dealing with a monster. The things that happened to us can indeed happen to you.

Oh man, I miss that community and its ideals. I have searched the game world after something similar, but I will probably never find it and experience it again.

The few times I have re subbed to SWG:NGE and tried it out, it feels like a dead shell of what it was. Before the "upgrades" you were living the SWG, now after the "upgrades" you just click your way through the NGE.

I have thousand and thousands of memories of the community before the "upgrades". The interactions, the events, the friendly attitude overall in the game world and the variety in people and play styles.

After NGE I dont really have any good community memories. Its more about Shoot, Kill, Loot, Repeat. Not that much interactions as back in the days. A weird feeling as it is a mmorpg. You can easily solo through the whole game with the minimum interactions with other players.

I agree with the rest of your post too xPaladin. In my eyes, when the community got killed, the game died. Because the community was the game.

The second Day Vet

EDIT: I kind of forgot to answer the OP. The Game. If there would be pre-cu servers and the good old community was there, I would play. Even if that means that I will have to pay SOE.

kairaene · May 2007

If I had never played PreCU or Cu and played during the NGE I would think. Hey, this is a buggy piece of crap that isnt finished. Look at all this broken stuff... Hmm. Guess I will give it a few months and watch how it progresses.   Of course I did the same thing with PreCU. I played the first month and didnt really know anyone and stopped playing for six months for the buggy ass game to get to a more finished state. Of course that never happened.

Problem isnt quite NGE and it isnt quite SOE. Its alot of both.   It does have some interesting stuff. I totally abhor the way they mimic the WoW talent system. I think that is the stupidest method ever for spending talent points in both games. It makes no sense to me and is totally fugly looking.

I would never play NGE in its current state. Its totally unintuitive and buggy.

I have gotten past the hate I had initially over the bait-n-switch and over the loss of my friends and professions. If NGE was fun and addictive I would be playing it. Its frankly not.

Another thing... There are so many constraints about the game. Like why is the behindview camera(when not offset) so damn high? Then I scroll into first person and it zips down to eyeheight... Its like that because they refuse to bring certain things back to the game that were PreCU. So, its part SOE/LA as well.

Lol...The whole thing just stinks i guess....lol.

shirlnt · May 2007

I consider SWG to be my first "true" MMORPG. My first MMO was TSO which I beta-ed and I tried a couple of other MMOs between TSO and SWG but SWG was the first one that I thought I was playing a "traditional" MMORPG. Therefore, I assumed they all played the way SWG did. SWG became what I judged all other mmorpgs by. Now, if I had not tried pre-CU, then I never would have known the possibility of that type of game and never would have set that high of a standard to judge all other games by (not saying pre-cu was perfect, but it had potential and a style that no other game out there lives up to).

Back to the mcnugget analogy. If one's first taste of chicken is a rotten nugget "burnt on the outside, frozen in the middle...," then one may assume that all chicken taste that way and either adapt a taste for rotten chicken mcnuggets, try other chicken and find out it's not all the same, or give up on chicken altogether. Problem is if someone's first taste of chicken is not even baked, roasted, or fried fresh, juicy, tasty chicken but some fancy seemingly well-prepared style of chicken with all the trimmings (although there may be flaws in the meal that an expert in chicken would notice) then one may assume all chicken is suppose to be like that. When one's fancy style of chicken is replaced by rotten chicken nugget that the cook has attempted to shape like the average baked, fried, or roasted chicken and one goes to try other chicken meals to find one like what they have developed a taste for, it is very disappointing to find that there is no other chicken meal out there like it. One keeps going back to the restaurant one once ate at in attempt to find a taste of what they once had but no matter how much that rotten chicken nugget has been cleaned up, fixed up, and had taste of that original meal added to it, it is still not the same which causes more frustration. This leaves one having to choose what to do about chicken while hoping one day someone out there will offer chicken in the style one came to desire.

sniper48101 · May 2007

I really enjoyed SWG at release. Sure it had lots of bugs but it had so much variety the bugs did'nt halt my game play. I really started to not like the 100000 CH's standing around with the pokemon's out though. Just didnt feel right to me. But I was a droid engineer so all those creature pets really destroyed my profession (and lack of DE fixes & patches).

Even though I hated the pokemon arena thing it was still a great game. Next came the jedi holo thing. Now that instantly changed the mindset of almost every player. Suddenly there was this hugh race to get the shinnies. That really seemed to alter the social and adventure aspect of the game greatly. Thats when I started questioning my choice to resub. I decided to not resub at some point there abouts.

I might have came back but the hugh CU/NGE changes was not something I was interested in. And still have no interest in.

So really the whole "must be the uber jedi" thing turned me away from the game.

Game would be thousand times better off without jedi at all. Or extremely rare. Bring back the perma death that the kids cried about. Damn, now that I think about it... it really has been the kiddies crying that has changed most of the games I liked into something I did not.

suske · May 2007

swg is dead. i wouldn't come back for any reason. soe will never get my money again. and the way bioware is acting i'd hate to see them get to make the next star wars mmo.

1.announce a game

2.ignore and deny anything for a year.

3.then forbid any mmo discussion whatsoever on thier forums.

shades of soe . god forbid they have problems with a patch.

Sethon · May 2007

I personally will not be joining the Emulator. Sure, it's Pre-CU. Sure, it's almost the same game. But Ultyma, Ramsey, and them Devs will never, hear me? [i]never[/i] be able to restore what SWG had back then. THey can't restore the players or the community.

Warmaker · May 2007

Originally posted by Shayde

It's the game.

If they put up pre-cu servers I'd resubscribe like a stupid ass. I wouldn't be alone.

If they put the Pre-CU servers in, I'm not sure how it would do these days. The wrongs inflicted have been done a while ago. SOE pushed on with the NGE without consideration for a rollback or even a Pre-CU or Pre-NGE server, despite pleas for it on the official forums back in the day.

Anyways, it's been forever since the disaster. I'm not sure how many would come back after so long. More MMO's have come out, some being highly successful. Then there's a bit of a lingering rep SWG has in some circles of the MMO community.

Don't get me wrong, I completely adored the old days of SWG. If they brought the old systems back again, I would try it out. But I'm not sure if we'll have the same numbers of players ever again in SWG, official Pre-CU servers or EMU.

The days of the overflowingly packed, laggy as heck Coronet, Theed, and later Mos Eisley Cantinas are gone (IMO). Especially Coronet's.

/sigh

Give me my Skillpoint System. Give me my freedom of choice in gameplay. Give me Carbineer (Charge Shot ) and Commando (as lame as it was Pre-NGE) again. Give me the deathworlds of Dathomir, Yavin IV, and Lok back. Give me the dangers of Krayts and Kimos. The hard part though: Give us back the population we had back in those days.

I also miss donning Stormtrooper Armor from the old days and going on recruiting drives in Mos Eisley (when it was made a starting world). The sheer number of players always meant I had interested new players in joining the Empire. What was amazing was that most didn't even know the Empire was a joinable faction

Sorry, I had "Reminisce" mode on for a while. The Pre-Cu game had some big flaws, but I would take those flaws any day than the NGE.

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