An MMO with no currency and no cost for items.

seabass2003 · May 2007

So I keep seeing the gold seller spamming the forums about how they can get you gold or nice loot or whatever and thought about Star Trek. I have a lot of caffeine in me so bear with me i will eventually get to the point. Star Trek is a world without currency(except Ferengi) but you know what I mean. Everything is taken care of by the Federation.

So I thought is it possible to make an MMO without currency and to be allowed to recieve items that you need for no cost. The answer of course is YES, but the real question I am posing is, would people really play an MMO without currency and cost for items.

I know how it could be implemented but I am not willing to explain because it would be a waste of time if no one would play in a world like this.

Squal'Zell · May 2007

im actually interested in knowing how it would be

its a very interesting idea, but just remember the diablo 2 days

gold was kind of useless and you would base a currency on an particular item.

like oh this shield is worth 2 SOJs (stone of jordan) or ill trade you that armour for 10 SOJ

diablo 2 became a trade/no gold economy.

send me a private if you are not to post it

xPaladin · May 2007

Asheron's Call 2 had no currency per se, items were transmuted into raw components which were then re-used for building better stuff. Thus did the raw components themselves turn into currency. Trade is a fundamental human action, so it will occur in any state and the laws behind it (currency, commodity, appraisal) will form naturally.

Gold sellers will always be around in some capacity as such, unless the gains to be had by farming are few. They need not necessarily sell gold, just the farming service.

Flyte27 · May 2007

Is this game devoid of items because gold sellers could still sell Items I'd imagine. WoW has become so sad as far as gold farming. I've logged into a few differnt servers and I get spammed and sent email ever hour to buy gold or power level. It's too bad that there is no way to regulate this kind of thing in game.

Amathe · May 2007

I would sign up for a game with no currency in a heartbeat. You kill monsters, they drop stuff, you put it on or leave it lay. Period. Your gear is a function of your success in combat nothing else. Make a game like that, and I'll play it.

Unknown · May 2007

Marketers are selling "the time" it takes to get things. The currency in game doesn't mater. The time it takes to achieve things does.

Drafell · May 2007

That's kind of the way DarkSpace works. When you initially start the game it is a limiting factor, but it's really not important to the game itself. In fact, most of the community will quite happily give newbies more than enough money than they will ever need.

In the next version of the game we are reducing the reliance even further via a simple swap system. This will reduce the learning curve drastically, and destroyed ships will automatically be salvaged and merely require repair (which is free but takes some time) before they can be used again.
The finalized system will be slightly more complex and I cannot reveal too many details on it currently, but the focus is on having fun, not spending most of your game time farming just to pay for a single battle.

Godliest · May 2007

As some others have stated, humans always makes something to trade with. We can't live with having everything for free, we want to trade, and usually after some time we will come up with a currency.

For example coal is easier to get than bbqmetalowpn so you need to get 5 coals for 1 bbqmetalowpn. This is the nature of man.

However there may be a way to pass around this, but isn't on of the fun elements in a game to trade? I don't buy gold or items, but I think that trading in game is something that can be fun. Spending hours at the auction house choosing the best price for an item and so on.

Altho it's a good idea, I don't think it would work out very good. It would (imo) be more boring as trading is interacting with other people, and you play mmorpgs to interact with other people, right?

Drafell · May 2007

It really depends on what your game is about, where the core focus lies and the balance concepts involved. It is workable, and can be fun, but will not suit most conventional style MMO's.

Helldog · May 2007

such a game definitely has its place, but it needs content to counter that!!

Imagine a game where there is little trading (like no real wearable loot, only collectors items like say paintings and so on)

and where there cannot be paid with a currency.

It would require the players to do the effort on their character to adventure out into the world with their friends (little trading means no crafter professions but lots of diversification in the combat classes) and where loot dropped from monsters would be unique for everyone (i.e. there's a 5% chance an item will drop, but it can drop for person A but not B eventhough they are the same class).

anyway I think there would have to be lots of unique content for the game not to get dull, and if u look at all of todays mmorpgs: There's just too many replicas of the same monster in one world. Lots of repetitive content wich doesn't keep people bothered unless they drop interesting, rare loot!

The thing that keeps people playing is that they can get the item without doing too much effort, but still need to do plenty of effort to keep them hooked for months!

sitheus · May 2007

For level based games - Perhaps every 10 levels you complete a series of elite or epic quests that rewards you with all your classe's armor set. Other quests should not have fixed rewards instead it should let you choose rewards for your class specifically. Things like that could eliminate need for money. And for travel mounts, you should also only complete quest(s). Also, there should be no need for repairs. What's pitiful is that players will still pay to have their character run through all the quests.

For skill based games - This is one is tough since resource gathering and production of goods is usually central to game play since they lead to PvP encounters for resource control between factions/corporations, etc. Better monintoring of the money trail perhaps but I'm not sure how game developers would do that.

Bartering might be an interesting altervative to money but that would just mean gold farmers will sell bartering goods. But yes, for level based games, I think elimation of money would make for better game flow as most of your time will be spent with other people enjoying doing one quest after another instead of stopping and doing boring gathering and crafting and selling .

ofir7786 · May 2007

I already am playing an MMO with no currency. It's called Planetside.

bballermc333 · May 2007

So then everyone walks around with the same suit of armor and looks identical to their class?

I think no currency or cost for items would be dumb. Guild Wars even has a currancy and everyone of the same class pretty much looks the exact same. Don't get me wrong I hate thoughs damn farmers, but with out currancy there is no economy in the game, and would turn it into a grind game where level is all that matters because level is what gives you items. So insted of having the freedom to pick a class that can make you money or a class that is a tank and can take on 2 mobs at once you can only pick the tank, which would make this game be a game that the person who plays non stop and has no life would pretty much rule the game.

Edit: Gold Farmers actually help the flow of the game because there is more currancy rotating throughout the game.

seabass2003 · May 2007

Well after reading all of your posts I have realized one thing. You can beat the gold sellers and loot sellers but you will never be able to beat the power leveling services. You can create a world with no currency and everything is provided for you but people will still pay for someone to power level their character. The other conclusion I have come to(due to a thread somewhere else) is that MMO companies don't want to completely defeat gold sellers anyways. This is because when a gold seller gets caught he is banned and then must go and purchase a new copy of the game.

Example MMO has 100,000 subscribers and 5,000 gold sellers. the subscribers pay a one time fee of $50 and a monthly fee of $15 over the course of a year the MMO makes $23,000,000 off of legitimate subscribers. The same MMO can make an extra $3,000,000 off of the gold sellers if they all get caught and repurchase once a month over the course of the same year. This is a very generic breakdown of how things possibly work all based on my own hypothesis because I really don't know how gold sellers really work. But it is easy to see that if you catch a gold seller they just repurchase the game and continue on, bringing more profits to the MMO company so why would they try to completely get rid of them. I just hope I am wrong.

Anyone with any knowledge of how gold selling works feel free to fix what I said here.

Myrdek · May 2007

Civilizations were based on the basis of commerce. Without it, there is no community and the game becomes a single player one

Is it just me or are these attempts by most players to get rid of Gold Farmers reminding them of the alcohol ban? All it does is create a black market that gets out of control. Legalize it and regulate it, that's all you can do. We don't live in "Heaven" but on Earth and living here means having to compromise.

sitheus · May 2007

Originally posted by bballermc333

So then everyone walks around with the same suit of armor and looks identical to their class?
I think no currency or cost for items would be dumb. Guild Wars even has a currancy and everyone of the same class pretty much looks the exact same. Don't get me wrong I hate thoughs damn farmers, but with out currancy there is no economy in the game, and would turn it into a grind game where level is all that matters because level is what gives you items. So insted of having the freedom to pick a class that can make you money or a class that is a tank and can take on 2 mobs at once you can only pick the tank, which would make this game be a game that the person who plays non stop and has no life would pretty much rule the game.

Edit: Gold Farmers actually help the flow of the game because there is more currancy rotating throughout the game.

Umm, everyone will eventually have the same armor anyway through grinding loot drops and at some point in the endgame money is useless since best gear will come from loot dropped in a raid. Taking money out of a game increases grinding? ROFL. OK. Needing money means grinding, grinding, grinding, and more grinding for money through selling loots, crafting material, consumables, and gear and that takes a tremendous amount of grinding. Take that out of a game and suddenly you don't have that kind of grind anymore. Now the game becomes all about enjoying completing quests from beginning to endgame with other people. After receiving your final armor set as a reward from completing a series of endgame raids instead of running the dungeon millions of times(grinding) for a small chance of a loot drop endgame would then become open PvP in a conquerable world or something. However, farming services would then simply power level your character and get all the gear for that person. Either way, there will stil be farmering services and losers who will pay them.

sitheus · May 2007

Originally posted by Myrdek

Civilizations were based on the basis of commerce. Without it, there is no community and the game becomes a single player one

Is it just me or are these attempts by most players to get rid of Gold Farmers reminding them of the alcohol ban? All it does is create a black market that gets out of control. Legalize it and regulate it, that's all you can do. We don't live in "Heaven" but on Earth and living here means having to compromise.

I think the OP is talking about MMORPGs not the rise of the world's first empires. Actually, money makes more of a single player game because majority of time spent will be on farming some area for loot and crafting materials instead of spending more time with groups of people questing out of mutual benefit and fun from what I stated before on class rewards from completing quests instead of single player mode gold farming.

Myrdek · May 2007

What's the difference between the worlds first empires and a new MMO? Their called virtual worlds for a reason

Sorry but I don't see your logic about money making a more single player game experience sitheus. There are only 2 reasons for people to conglomerate. For prosperity (commerce), or for war. If you eliminate commerce then only people who want to group together to fight can play. You lose half the potential game content.

sitheus · May 2007

Originally posted by Myrdek

What's the difference between the worlds first empires and a new MMO? Their called virtual worlds for a reason

Sorry but I don't see your logic about money making a more single player game experience sitheus. There are only 2 reasons for people to conglomerate. For prosperity (commerce), or for war. -The two things that you will never need in a static MMO where gear grinding is the only goal and your actions do not effect anything. If you eliminate commerce then only people who want to group together to fight can play. You lose half the potential game content.

Difference? Civilizations in real life(no its not virtual it is real) needs commerce as a central part of stability and advancement. Does a MMO? Depends on game design. In a game like Eve yes you need economy as player actions in resources gathering and production create PvP situations that effect a dynamic, ever changing game world. In a game like WoW, LOTRO, etc where you progress through levels and your actions do not effect the game world money shouldn't be an issue as games like that revolve around story, lore, and questing. Those static worlds should be about group questing with rewards from questing from level 1 to level cap. Those rewards include gear, travel mounts, and consumables. When I played pre TBC WoW, I never grinded for money and all my gear came from instances. Nor did I have play the auction house or craft. My money came from humanoids and vendor trashing items i collected during questing. And that money was only needed for skills training and repairs which shouldn' t cost anything. Being a paladin class, the mount was free so yes that proves in a static MMO with commerce you still don't have to make money to get to endgame and get the best gear. I was a poor paladin but still had top gear. In a game like Eve I enjoy playing the market because it is central to game play. In a static game like WoW, yes, money grinding makes for single player experience. I saw them all the time running around mining, skinning, picking plants, or camping certain areas to kill mobs that dropped something they needed and yes they were always alone. In Eve its usually best that your buddies come with you when resource gathering!! So my point is that it all depends on game design and type of game you are playing. In WoW and other gear and level based games players want the gear and could care less about the money.

seabass2003 · May 2007

Well I will just touch on what my idea was but it wouldn't work anyways. Basically I got the idea from watching cavemen shows on the History Channel. The idea was community leveling instead of just individuals. What this entails is colonies/cities/comunities that are completely player built. If your a crafter and want to achieve greatness, you craft items that the community uses(with exceptions for rare items you could pick who you want them to go to) and these items go to an arsenal available to all people that are a part of the community. As you make things for the community your character gets access to create nicer equipment for others to use. Conversely if you are a fighter/defender of the community you have free access to weapons and such, but if you want access to nicer weapons created by the other players from the arsenal you need to be an asset to the community by defending it from others. Then as the individuals grow the community would in turn grow and unlock new buildings and such.

Like I said in my first sentence I am just touching on the idea but I didn't feel like getting in depth at this point. Now its up to others to either build up or tear down this idea.

Squal'Zell · May 2007

could work, i would play it for sure but it would not be popular though

the nature of human is me me me me me me gimme gimme gimme

some one who is into the game for the community aspect will play just fine

but some one hard core player/grinder who wishes to be the most powerfull tool on the planet will go take everything from the armoury and give it to another comunity in exchange for the best gear they have or wtv is worthwhile basically a rogue

and over time the game will get filled with those people and it will be come a free for all and crafters would stop making things since they always get stolen

in theory it works but in practical, your paying against human nature... let me rephrase that... yout playing with 13-15 year old youglings nature

Mrbloodworth · May 2007

Trade and value for items will evolve even with out currency.

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An MMO with no currency and no cost for items.

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An MMO with no currency and no cost for items.

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