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Anyone else worried about WAR release?
kemphbc
Member Posts: 14
I've been really concerned with the current progress made on war. I fully acknowledge that there could be some unreleased info that they're keeping from us, but it seems like the game is going to be rushed if it meets it's current deadline (The pushed back one)
The only PvE things we really have seen is early level stuff, none of the later.
Almost no information has been released on mounts, except for that one video where they turned the wolf mount into a goblin.
Cities have not been described greatly except in lore (again, could be saving)
Haven't seen the maurader or witch hunter in game, and empire knights just briefly.
Both elves (Big one)
And if they haven't gotten the elves down, one of the basic necessities, I doubt they've started on end-game much (I.E. raid bosses and end-game pvp/capital sacking, except for mentioning an unclean one in the grab-bag)
It just seems like there is still a lot to develop, then they need to test it and fix any issues (Which all mmo's have). Unless they pick up the pace in the coming months, I don't think they'll be able to release a polished game in time.
Now, before I get instantly flamed, I would just like to say I love warhammer, and have been following it since those early orc and dwarf pictures were posted in that gaming magazine. I am a fanboy, and am just expressing a concern, because if this game isn't good I think I'll die a little on the inside.
The only PvE things we really have seen is early level stuff, none of the later.
Almost no information has been released on mounts, except for that one video where they turned the wolf mount into a goblin.
Cities have not been described greatly except in lore (again, could be saving)
Haven't seen the maurader or witch hunter in game, and empire knights just briefly.
Both elves (Big one)
And if they haven't gotten the elves down, one of the basic necessities, I doubt they've started on end-game much (I.E. raid bosses and end-game pvp/capital sacking, except for mentioning an unclean one in the grab-bag)
It just seems like there is still a lot to develop, then they need to test it and fix any issues (Which all mmo's have). Unless they pick up the pace in the coming months, I don't think they'll be able to release a polished game in time.
Now, before I get instantly flamed, I would just like to say I love warhammer, and have been following it since those early orc and dwarf pictures were posted in that gaming magazine. I am a fanboy, and am just expressing a concern, because if this game isn't good I think I'll die a little on the inside.
Comments
Another aspect, not all races have to be completed when the game goes live. When Mythic developed DAoC, Albion was done first, then Midgard was released. They entered closed Beta then developed Hybernia while in Beta. WAR is a game under development, but with the over abundance of information we've been given, it doesn't look like there is an NDA in place. I wouldn't worry about it. We still have over 9 months of development time to go. That's a lot of time now that Mythic has experience developing the game using the tools they have. The fact they are going back over the Dwarves and Greenskins to make them more WARlike just reinforces the fact that Mythic isn't behind schedule.
They have the Dwarf/Greenskin Frontier almost completely done (now redoing some stuff, to include the awesomeness they learned doing at the Emprie/Chaos frontier.... something I would've loved WoW for doing it... the "old world" is as boring, dull as can be and hasn't changed a pixel from pre-BC, while the Outworld got all the good stuff... you wouldn't want one frontier feel "left-out" for certain features the other frontiers have, would you?).
This includes the End-Game for the Dwarf/Greenskin side.
You have to realize they aren't Programming the game from Tier 1 to Tier 4.
They are Programming the different Racial Pairings, one after another.
And, think about it the other way around: They have the Code completed, they have the Design completed, they have the Graphics pretty much completed (though there'll be rather big upgrades, too), They have the Dwarfs/Greenskins pretty much completed.
That's already a pretty big Part of completed game, it would be release-able if it only included Greenskins and Dwarfs to make the Point clear.
All they now have to add is the other Half of Chaos/Empire, and Elves, which won't last as long as including Greenskins/Dwarfs, since they now got the routines and know about possible Problems and how to solve them from their Dwarf/Greenskin experience.
I fully believe in Mythic EA, and, honestly: I think it is a good sign that they aren't rushing the game to release it pre-Christmas. I expected worse from EA (Mythic is the coolest Dev Company ever *g*)
I fear EA Games might do such a mistake to be honest.....
I'm not really worried, at least not right now. In fact, I'm downright hopeful about WAR.
It's extremely rare to see this much information coming from a developer about a game that is roughly a year from being released. The sheer volume of information flowing to the WAR fan community via newsletters, interviews, press previews, convention videoes, etc. is simply astounding. The fact that the game looks so polished and plays so well this far from release is a feat unto itself. The fact that all this information is being leaked and released on a regular basis has a tendency to make those of us not connected with the actual development process to make inaccurate projections about what the final product will be like. It's perfectly natural. The same phenomenon happens when information is regularly released (or leaked) about big budget Hollywood movies in production; the rumor rags and general public can react quite negatively to even the smallest sliver of odd or unfavorable news and turn it into a public relations disaster.
I'm not too worried about PvE content and gameplay because to be quite honest, I don't care much for PvE, at least not in a game that essentially revolves around PvP & RvR combat.
There will obviously be mounts in WAR but I don't see how the lack of information about them will somehow prevent them from being in the game. I doubt mounted combat will make its way into WAR, at least not in the initial release. That sounds like a possible feature for a distant expansion pack.
I think you hit the mark on cities; they're probably saving that stuff for later newsletters.
Plenty of time left for coverage on the other classes and races. We've got at least 8 more newsletters coming to us before WAR is released.
That being said I did share some of your concern when the game was originally on track for a Fall 2007 release. However my concerns were not about content. I was genuinely worried that even with a stable build and tons of content there would enough time for Mythic to thoroughly test and balance the classes so as to avoid the discovery of any serious class making/breaking exploits upon its release. Class balance is going to be critical in WAR because the entire game revolves around PvP & RvR combat. Now that Mythic has pushed back the release to early 2008 my mind is at ease.
Anyway I figure we have at least 6 months before the game is content & feature locked and the first release candidate build enters official beta testing stage. Twenty four weeks of looong development work days should be plenty of time for Mythic to wrap up the remaining races and redo the Dwarf/Greenskins regions.
Now if we were three months from release and I'd say your worries are well founded.
Might be some hard medicine to take here, but possibly a good thing not to share too much nearly a year before beta release. Please remember what happened to Vanguard. Better some things be left a refreshing surprise than to be over-blow and over-hyped.
Just allow the developers to do their jobs in relative peace and this time next year, you're possibly in for a very strong release of their beta.
Just try and concentrate on something else. Maybe even push away from the keyboard and go outside since summer is right around the corner. Many wonderful things out there in the real world to occupy your thoughts besides a cartoon.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Possibly. But I think Mythic's response in the latest newsletter spells it all out for us...
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Grab Bag #13
Q: Why did you decide to revamp the Greenskin/Dwarf starting areas?
A: We had to put the WAR in.
This is not as silly of an answer as you might think. (And you might - I know I did, I laughed my tail off when I heard that from a developer.) The demo versions that many of you have enjoyed at Game Day events and various conventions around the world were built to show you actual, usable zones, and to give you a taste of our systems and our sensibilities.
There have been many design tools developed, and a lot more learned, since we built those zones more than a year ago! As Miss Ellisa, our lead quest lady, says, "[The early conflicts] looked like staring contests. We had no effects, no sounds, no animations, no spells. We have so many more resources now... when you play [in the starting zones] now, you can tell there's a war. You can hear it, you see things exploding, you are blowing things up yourself. We had all those ideas when we did our first pass, but we couldn't do them yet."
And on top of all that stuff, we've also gone deeper into the Warhammer world. For example, our early Dwarf areas were great. The Dwarfs talked right, sounded right, and did the right things, all in lovely foothills outside a mountain. Now? They live IN the mountain. They aren't fighting over the open fields outside their home - they are defending their home. And their enemies aren't taunting them outside in the open air, their enemies are perilously close to taking the gold. And the ale.
Think of the world you've already experienced as the foundation, or the core of our game. We didn't redo the old areas so much as we brought them to the intense, immersive, Warhammer level that the rest of the game has become.
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Obviously EA's mountains of cash makes it easier for Mythic to develop WAR but I honestly think they felt compelled to overhaul the Dwarf/Greenskin areas when they compared them to the others.
One thing I hate about what I saw is the art of the game. We all know Warhammer and it's races to be very charicatural and that's the way we love em. Like the dwarf fighting with a nude torso full of tattoos and it's red mohawk. THATS the dwarf I wanna see. Not the mix Lotr WoW dwraf they show us on the official website. They really need to redo all the Art. So it's not gonna come out before 3 or 4 years again,sorry guys.
I also see the lack of elves present on their visible lineup as cause to believe things may take a bit longer.
Of course, it may be that they just aren't willing to divulge or it's true they haven't gotten around to them yet. It's hard to believe the latter, however. Surely they must have more material than what they are showing. Someone go pick Paul's brain!
If anyone does find something announced on this race, please post it here because that's the character I plan on making.
An NDA stands for a Non-Disclosure Agreement. This is a leagally binding contract that says you will not disclose any information you are privy to that the owner of said information hasn't agreed to make public. That's what a lot of the pass answers are for. Mythic has released more information about their very early beta game than any developer has ever done in the past. They are still very much in the friends and family beta phase of the game's life cycle. We have more information about WAR than we do about other games scheduled for release soon that are also still under NDA. I'd bet Mythic already has both Elven races designed right now, they are just waiting in line to be actually implemented into the game. Games Workshop probably has the artwork on their desks waiting to be approved.
You have to remember, this game is still under NDA. They aren't allowed to answer a lot of the questions players have right now due to being under NDA.
The other thing you also have to consider, the Elves don't have to be completed before Mythic enters the next phase of Beta. Just because there isn't information about the Elves released, doesn't mean Mythic isn't ready to take the next step forward. They did this with DAoC and the development of Hybernia. DAoC to this day still had the best release of an MMO I'd ever experienced. I could log in and play without any lag issues or crashing. To be worried about a game that won't be released for 9 months is silly. When it gets to that quarter of a year mark, then concern can start to arise. But that's still 5 months off.
Anyways, it is my fear that with its hype - It's going to be WoW 2... I just am not seeing innovation.. Instead, I am using dark age with a wow skin... I mean sure, they want you to think it's going to be more pvp based... but really, you can't find anything on it... Anything they mention is art crap.... Hype is undeserved at this point imo.... and I am a HUGE fan of DAOC...
In the process of game development the last thing the do is actually create the content. This includes such mechanics as skills for characters, the crafting system, quest, etc...
Before that they must make the engine, unless the rent one, the general concept maps for the game, all graphics, any animations, etc... This part will usually last 2 years for a game in development for 3, or 3 years for a game in development for 4 on average. The last year is scripting the actual content.
Now, remember that and analysing this game currently as it stands, they are on schedule. This is also assuming that certain features will still be under wraps to create hype and for future marketing ploys.
Mythic has been showing us TONS more stuff than any other MMORPG out there, including some who are scheduled to released before WAR.
Look at the amount of information we have about WAR from all the articles, podcasts and previews and compare that to games like:
Tabula Rasa: Where we have been given such enlightening details like the bizarre new language they've made up for the game. It was only recently that Garriot finally gave an interview actually describing the game in any decent detail, but that was one interview and doesn't have much details of game mechanics.
Age of Conan: Where we are constantly given detailed biographies of Funcom staff members and very few details about the game mechanics, specific mechanics of character classes or PvP-guild conflict.
Aion: CIA covert operations have revealed more about themselves than this game, and it's supposed to release this year.
I'm not worried about the WAR release. Mythic is an experienced company who knows how to schedule.
If we get worried about WAR given the hordes of information Mythic has given out, then we should be worried about ever other upcoming MMORPG on the market. (Which might not be that unreasonable given the history of the genre lol)
In it's unabridged, unedited glory, here is why WAR is now a Q1-08 game instead of a Q4-07 game:
We have made the decision to move our ship date for the US and Europe to the first quarter of 2008. (Release dates for Asia will be announced at a later date.) Since our acquisition by EA, we have been afforded many wonderful development opportunities and we plan to take full advantage of everything that is available. This includes taking several additional months to make the best MMORPG possible.
At this time we have completed most of the work on our first racial pairing – Dwarfs and Greenskins – and the team is now building Empire and Chaos. These new zones really kick butt and the team did a fantastic job of incorporating the feel of war and Warhammer into these areas. This racial pairing is the embodiment of all that I hoped for when we made the decision to partner with GW.
However, when we looked back at our work on the Dwarf and Greenskin pairing, we could not say the same thing. While these areas were good, they were not great and glorious. We have always said that WAR was going to be great and we will not settle for anything less. So the team has gone back to our initial pairing and conducted an intense review of their work. They have implemented new ideas and applied all that they have learned over the past nine months. What has already emerged from this dedicated time of focused polish is nothing short of spectacular. In the Dwarf and Greenskin zones there is now more war, more Warhammer, and more of what makes WAR great.
By extending our development time, we’ll be able to do these in-depth reviews several times prior to launch to ensure all areas of WAR benefit from the experience of ongoing development. EA is totally supportive of our decision and are behind us 100%. We all believe WAR will be the next great MMORPG and being part of EA affords us the time we need to make it so. It is EA’s ongoing commitment to quality that will allow us, and other EA studios, to deliver great games, now and in the future.
Now, let me break out very specific key details because that is a large block of text.
Key point 1: the team is now building Empire and Chaos. These new zones really kick butt and the team did a fantastic job of incorporating the feel of war and Warhammer into these areas. This racial pairing is the embodiment of all that I hoped for when we made the decision to partner with GW.
Mythic has experience now with the tools after having developed the first pairing. Empire vs Chaos is what they had originally envisioned. Keep this fact in mind.
Key point 2: However, when we looked back at our work on the Dwarf and Greenskin pairing, we could not say the same thing. While these areas were good, they were not great and glorious. We have always said that WAR was going to be great and we will not settle for anything less. So the team has gone back to our initial pairing and conducted an intense review of their work. They have implemented new ideas and applied all that they have learned over the past nine months.
They were not happy with the result of the first racial pairing, so they are taking the time to go back over it and make it match the Empire vs Chaos pairing. Did they have to do this? Absolutely not. But to make sure WAR is the best game it can be, they are taking a few extra months and making the whole game look like they had envisioned.
They are not behind schedule. They are on schedule, but due to them wanting to make WAR the best game they can, they are taking an extra few months and improving the apspects of the first racial pairing and making them what they should be.
In it's unabridged, unedited glory, here is why WAR is now a Q1-08 game instead of a Q4-07 game:
We have made the decision to move our ship date for the US and Europe to the first quarter of 2008. (Release dates for Asia will be announced at a later date.) Since our acquisition by EA, we have been afforded many wonderful development opportunities and we plan to take full advantage of everything that is available. This includes taking several additional months to make the best MMORPG possible.
At this time we have completed most of the work on our first racial pairing – Dwarfs and Greenskins – and the team is now building Empire and Chaos. These new zones really kick butt and the team did a fantastic job of incorporating the feel of war and Warhammer into these areas. This racial pairing is the embodiment of all that I hoped for when we made the decision to partner with GW.
However, when we looked back at our work on the Dwarf and Greenskin pairing, we could not say the same thing. While these areas were good, they were not great and glorious. We have always said that WAR was going to be great and we will not settle for anything less. So the team has gone back to our initial pairing and conducted an intense review of their work. They have implemented new ideas and applied all that they have learned over the past nine months. What has already emerged from this dedicated time of focused polish is nothing short of spectacular. In the Dwarf and Greenskin zones there is now more war, more Warhammer, and more of what makes WAR great.
By extending our development time, we’ll be able to do these in-depth reviews several times prior to launch to ensure all areas of WAR benefit from the experience of ongoing development. EA is totally supportive of our decision and are behind us 100%. We all believe WAR will be the next great MMORPG and being part of EA affords us the time we need to make it so. It is EA’s ongoing commitment to quality that will allow us, and other EA studios, to deliver great games, now and in the future.
Now, let me break out very specific key details because that is a large block of text.
Key point 1: the team is now building Empire and Chaos. These new zones really kick butt and the team did a fantastic job of incorporating the feel of war and Warhammer into these areas. This racial pairing is the embodiment of all that I hoped for when we made the decision to partner with GW.
Mythic has experience now with the tools after having developed the first pairing. Empire vs Chaos is what they had originally envisioned. Keep this fact in mind.
Key point 2: However, when we looked back at our work on the Dwarf and Greenskin pairing, we could not say the same thing. While these areas were good, they were not great and glorious. We have always said that WAR was going to be great and we will not settle for anything less. So the team has gone back to our initial pairing and conducted an intense review of their work. They have implemented new ideas and applied all that they have learned over the past nine months.
They were not happy with the result of the first racial pairing, so they are taking the time to go back over it and make it match the Empire vs Chaos pairing. Did they have to do this? Absolutely not. But to make sure WAR is the best game it can be, they are taking a few extra months and making the whole game look like they had envisioned.
They are not behind schedule. They are on schedule, but due to them wanting to make WAR the best game they can, they are taking an extra few months and improving the apspects of the first racial pairing and making them what they should be.
I have already read all of that, I am not posting here without having been following this game. Thanks, tho.
It still doesn't change the fact.