It might just be a EQII turnaround. Course if Gilbertson has been running it for eight months he hasn't exactly turned things around any better than Brad did. For now I will continue to enjoy LoTRs and if between now and Conan, SOE can revamp this game enough I might consider it.
1. Optimize it for the big system you need to run it.
2. Add some freaking life to the world
3. Add tons more content
4, Add some lore
5. Settle on an XP rate and a death penalty and quit screwing with it.
6. Address Crafting
7. Either change the uni-body look or add a ton of new armors and helmets to compensate for the ugly look-alike characters.
Smed can get up on the table daily and yell those seven things over and over and if the team can pull it off it would be a good game. I might sound a bit sarcastic but I'm serious. I'd love a big huge seemless world to level in. I just don't want a big huge empty bland world.
So anybody know the name of Brad's new company yet? Or when we can expect the first 4th gen title? But all kidding aside .. I NEVER thought I'd say this but I have gained massive respect for Microsoft for the decissions they made in this whole mess.
It's called "Unemployment office". He just sent half his staff there for betatesting.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard
It doesn't seem fair that he keeps his job after losing the jobs of all the people that aren't getting rehired. But then, when has life ever been fair.
As long as 'Creative Advisor' means powerless, empty suit that no one has to pay any attention to, then maybe Vanguard will stand a chance.
Originally posted by mcharj11
The circle is complete, now sony is the master lol.
Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard It doesn't seem fair that he keeps his job after losing the jobs of all the people that aren't getting rehired. But then, when has life ever been fair. As long as 'Creative Advisor' means powerless, empty suit that no one has to pay any attention to, then maybe Vanguard will stand a chance.
Thats not a paid position, thats called "You signed a contract, and we own your sole"
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard It doesn't seem fair that he keeps his job after losing the jobs of all the people that aren't getting rehired. But then, when has life ever been fair. As long as 'Creative Advisor' means powerless, empty suit that no one has to pay any attention to, then maybe Vanguard will stand a chance.
Look at it this way-- Brad's now got as much input on Vanguard's direction as Ken Kutaragi now has over the PS3.
Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard It doesn't seem fair that he keeps his job after losing the jobs of all the people that aren't getting rehired. But then, when has life ever been fair. As long as 'Creative Advisor' means powerless, empty suit that no one has to pay any attention to, then maybe Vanguard will stand a chance.
Look at it this way-- Brad's now got as much input on Vanguard's direction as Ken Kutaragi now has over the PS3.
Heh.
Isnt it the same position Raph Koster was placed in near the end of his tenure with SWG?
Isnt it the same position Raph Koster was placed in near the end of his tenure with SWG?
Good question.
By the time the angry mobs were out in force over the CU and NGE, my time in SWG had long since passed. I think I only played it at launch, and for 2-3 months. I've only caught bits and pieces of the story over time.
If that weren't posted on the offical SOE site and locked already, I would think it was a scam. The writing looks like that of a 3rd grader, including mis-spelling the word "feel" more than once. If Smedley really wrote that himself I can finally see why SOE is run in such an incompetent manner.
C
What the... that was not a hoax? Couldn't agree more - it really does sound like writing by a 14 year old.
I don't really know who these people are but I assume this 'Smed' is some kind of SOE PR guy? How did such a major company hire such an illiterate?
EDIT: Oh wow - this is even worse (from what I can see from another post). He is the president? Hahaha!
JS: The game is already on Station Access, and since January, many of the bugs and issues in the game have been addressed, and the rest will be as well. Vanguard is an SOE product and we're going to make sure it gets taken care of. As for the state of the release, well, Sigil only had a certain level of funding, and we contributed as well. But the game is in good shape now. We sold 200,000 copies...I'm not sure many people realize that. It's actually a very healthy game.
So.. only 200k. You know he rounded up too. Finally the "truth" comes out.
200k is "very healthy". They do have low standards.
200k is healthy for an MMO, it's also about the average when you talk about US subs.
That is also box sales, and not subs, but you knew that already.
Seems to read a lot like a bunch of SWG mourners are running around wetting themselves with glee around here.
SoE buying out is very nice. A company with money, finally.
The only thing that really suprises me is that they bought out Sigil, not just the game.
I commend any independant developers that set out to make something big. Mcquaid wasn't able to do it, but he gave it a go. This would have been a huge undertaking for even an established company. All things aside, the independant company was able to get the game on shelves. Good job Sigil.
Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard It doesn't seem fair that he keeps his job after losing the jobs of all the people that aren't getting rehired. But then, when has life ever been fair. As long as 'Creative Advisor' means powerless, empty suit that no one has to pay any attention to, then maybe Vanguard will stand a chance.
Look at it this way-- Brad's now got as much input on Vanguard's direction as Ken Kutaragi now has over the PS3.
Heh.
Isnt it the same position Raph Koster was placed in near the end of his tenure with SWG?
No.. he was bumped to more of an executive role at $OE, not a consultant on the outside.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard It doesn't seem fair that he keeps his job after losing the jobs of all the people that aren't getting rehired. But then, when has life ever been fair. As long as 'Creative Advisor' means powerless, empty suit that no one has to pay any attention to, then maybe Vanguard will stand a chance.
Look at it this way-- Brad's now got as much input on Vanguard's direction as Ken Kutaragi now has over the PS3.
Heh.
Isnt it the same position Raph Koster was placed in near the end of his tenure with SWG?
No.. he was bumped to more of an executive role at $OE, not a consultant on the outside.
Oh so its even worse? good, serves Brad right for pissing on my chips. Can kind of imagine Brad in six months time sitting in his home office occasionally picking up the phone and saying 'hello?' to the dial tone.
200k is healthy for an MMO, it's also about the average when you talk about US subs.
You can't talk about subscription numbers in a vacuum.
200,000 is good for the average mmo. But it is awful for a game that cost well over $30 million and 6 years to make.
Second, it's one thing to talk about how many boxes you sell. But these are subscription based games and you have to look at how many people quit.
Third, you have to factor in how much more money you have to sink into it. Vanguard isn't a polished product, and SOE acknowledges that. They are going to have to spend lots of money to fix this thing, assuming it can be fixed and assuming further they have the competence and the right plan to do it.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Right. Box sales != subscribership. We all know SWG has sold over 1 million boxes, but they clearly do NOT have a million subscribers -- heck they're lucky if they have 10% of that.
What's the retention rate been? Forget boxes... how many of those are ongoing subscribers? That, we have not heard anything about.
200k is healthy for an MMO, it's also about the average when you talk about US subs.
You can't talk about subscription numbers in a vacuum.
200,000 is good for the average mmo. But it is awful for a game that cost well over $30 million and 6 years to make.
Second, it's one thing to talk about how many boxes you sell. But these are subscription based games and you have to look at how many people quit.
Third, you have to factor in how much more money you have to sink into it. Vanguard isn't a polished product, and SOE acknowledges that. They are going to have to spend lots of money to fix this thing, assuming it can be fixed and assuming further they have the competence and the right plan to do it.
Good point... 200k is good if you spent a couple mil to make it. VG was the second costliest next to WoW. They didn't even cover their beer tab.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
200k is healthy for an MMO, it's also about the average when you talk about US subs.
You can't talk about subscription numbers in a vacuum.
200,000 is good for the average mmo. But it is awful for a game that cost well over $30 million and 6 years to make.
Second, it's one thing to talk about how many boxes you sell. But these are subscription based games and you have to look at how many people quit.
Third, you have to factor in how much more money you have to sink into it. Vanguard isn't a polished product, and SOE acknowledges that. They are going to have to spend lots of money to fix this thing, assuming it can be fixed and assuming further they have the competence and the right plan to do it.
I also wrote.
That is also box sales, and not subs, but you knew that already
SoE buying out is very nice. A company with money, finally.
But you cut that out.
Considering that the average MMO is pretty much anything outside of WoW. And up until WoW getting 200k was considered a sucess. See, no where did I say they were sucesfull, I just agreed that 200k box sales is a healthy start. That's 200k potential customers.
Right, getting sick of the 200k bow sales BS Smed and vanbois spout. That's only a very small part of the story.
What about retention? How many have actually stayed? Sure doesn't seem like very many or at most 1/3 perhaps 1/2.
Box sales count but for MMOs in the end it doesn't mean crap in the overall picture. For HL2 or Q4 it's the whole story but not an MMO. I wish Smed would quit trying to blow smoke up everyones arse with those numbers.
Well for those people still playing, I hope the game does get better for you because you're... erm... stubborn enough to keep playing. I have no faith in SOE though, so if the game gets NGEed I won't be surprised.
I have no faith in SOE though, so if the game gets NGEed I won't be surprised.
Ditto.
Right now I am playing it for 2 reasons.
1. A few of my friends play it, and the other ones that some friends play I'm either sick of (COH) or have no interested in (WOW).
2. There's really nothing out there that I find of more interest than Vanguard at the moment. And given the shape Vanguard is in that's actually a sad commentary on the state of MMORPGs.
But I am certainly NOT playing it because I "believe in" the vision, nor because I trust SOE, nor any of that. Nope... I'm just treading water with it till a game I really like comes out.
Saddest part is, I see very little in the upcoming releases to even tempt me.
Mcquaid wasn't able to do it, but he gave it a go. This would have been a huge undertaking for even an established company. All things aside, the independant company was able to get the game on shelves. Good job Sigil.
You. Are. Congratulating. Them??
A company that switched publishers, produced a buggy, unstable product, then got bought out and just got half of their employees fired.
And you think that is deserving of a 'Good job'? What does a company have to do to get a 'bad job'? Commit worldwide genocide?
Unbelievable. It's these kind of opinions from people who support this game that will drive people away. Most people prefer notions grounded in something called reality.
And when I refer to Sigil the company I mean the people running the company, the ones in charge. Not the poor unforunates who were just doing their jobs as best that they could.
(And is that 'in-context' enough for you? Every one of your quotes that I've seen other people use when they argue with you have all been 'in-context').
The only thing that really suprises me is that they bought out Sigil, not just the game.
Why would this be a surprise? By buying the company and keeping many of the same employees, it saves SOE money that they would otherwise have to spend on hiring new people, and finding a place to put them all.
By purchasing Sigil outright along with the game, they can have a much smoother transition of power, since the only real things that will change are the names on the letterhead and the company logos. The infrastructure stays the same.
I commend any independant developers that set out to make something big.
Indie game companies don't usually have $30+ million at their disposal, as well as the backing of Microsoft, then Sony.
Mcquaid wasn't able to do it, but he gave it a go.
Put another way, he pissed away five years and $30+ million and ended up shoved out of his own company and replaced. He's also now marginalized as an "outside consultant", which is a nice way of saying that Smed will occasionally take his calls and read his e-mails. He's not going to have much of a hand in VG anymore.
This would have been a huge undertaking for even an established company. All things aside, the independant company was able to get the game on shelves.
You'd have more of an argument if Sigil had never had Microsoft or Sony backing them all along.
Good job Sigil.
For the grunts who have just had their lives upended? Sure. They did the best they could. For Brad McQuaid? Not so much. He should never be let near game development funds again, and shouldn't be trusted to run a company, since he was clearly out of his depth.
A few other items I wanted to mention 1. Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard. Dave Gilbertson will be the person directly responsible for the day-to-day management of both the Sigil Carlsbad office as well as Vanguard. 2. We do not plan on making any major changes to Vanguard. Any changes are going to come from the team itself. We aren't mandating any big changes to the game. We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players. Smed
Two parts really caught my eye, Brad being 'back-seated' to creative advisor (great HE gets to keep his job isnt it? ) and Dave Gilbertson taking the management reigns. If anyone else like me thought, 'who he?', LINKThanks for the linkWell atleast "Brad" got alittle taste of being at the helm but unfortunaly for him it was abit above his head. Lets hope that SOE indeed had learned from NGE/Mistakes. I feel the forums are a very good start.
Also, yet another instance of the Smed publicly using the word 'mistake' and 'NGE' in the same sentance. That did look honost ...and that for someone from SOE..how could he
Smedley said.. "by the strong gaming community Vanguard has"
Who's he trying to kid with a statement like this? A strong gaming community? He's impling there's actually a lot of players in this game.
It's more like a lot of players who have left this game, a lot of ex-players who have trashed this game because of the way it is, the condition it's in.
I give it the Dawgs seal of approval. I will be watching it closely and wish SOE the best of luck. As a long time EQII player I have more than a little faith that this will turn out for he best.
Comments
Truthfully
It might just be a EQII turnaround. Course if Gilbertson has been running it for eight months he hasn't exactly turned things around any better than Brad did. For now I will continue to enjoy LoTRs and if between now and Conan, SOE can revamp this game enough I might consider it.
1. Optimize it for the big system you need to run it.
2. Add some freaking life to the world
3. Add tons more content
4, Add some lore
5. Settle on an XP rate and a death penalty and quit screwing with it.
6. Address Crafting
7. Either change the uni-body look or add a ton of new armors and helmets to compensate for the ugly look-alike characters.
Smed can get up on the table daily and yell those seven things over and over and if the team can pull it off it would be a good game. I might sound a bit sarcastic but I'm serious. I'd love a big huge seemless world to level in. I just don't want a big huge empty bland world.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard
It doesn't seem fair that he keeps his job after losing the jobs of all the people that aren't getting rehired. But then, when has life ever been fair.
As long as 'Creative Advisor' means powerless, empty suit that no one has to pay any attention to, then maybe Vanguard will stand a chance.
LOL - nice!
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Look at it this way-- Brad's now got as much input on Vanguard's direction as Ken Kutaragi now has over the PS3.
Heh.
Look at it this way-- Brad's now got as much input on Vanguard's direction as Ken Kutaragi now has over the PS3.
Heh.
Isnt it the same position Raph Koster was placed in near the end of his tenure with SWG?
Well that's a relief....
Well that's a relief....
Lol, aye now the Vanguard players are REALLY scared
Good question.
By the time the angry mobs were out in force over the CU and NGE, my time in SWG had long since passed. I think I only played it at launch, and for 2-3 months. I've only caught bits and pieces of the story over time.
What the... that was not a hoax? Couldn't agree more - it really does sound like writing by a 14 year old.
I don't really know who these people are but I assume this 'Smed' is some kind of SOE PR guy? How did such a major company hire such an illiterate?
EDIT: Oh wow - this is even worse (from what I can see from another post). He is the president? Hahaha!
200k is healthy for an MMO, it's also about the average when you talk about US subs.
That is also box sales, and not subs, but you knew that already.
Seems to read a lot like a bunch of SWG mourners are running around wetting themselves with glee around here.
SoE buying out is very nice. A company with money, finally.
The only thing that really suprises me is that they bought out Sigil, not just the game.
I commend any independant developers that set out to make something big. Mcquaid wasn't able to do it, but he gave it a go. This would have been a huge undertaking for even an established company. All things aside, the independant company was able to get the game on shelves. Good job Sigil.
Look at it this way-- Brad's now got as much input on Vanguard's direction as Ken Kutaragi now has over the PS3.
Heh.
Isnt it the same position Raph Koster was placed in near the end of his tenure with SWG?
No.. he was bumped to more of an executive role at $OE, not a consultant on the outside.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Look at it this way-- Brad's now got as much input on Vanguard's direction as Ken Kutaragi now has over the PS3.
Heh.
Isnt it the same position Raph Koster was placed in near the end of his tenure with SWG?
No.. he was bumped to more of an executive role at $OE, not a consultant on the outside.
Oh so its even worse? good, serves Brad right for pissing on my chips. Can kind of imagine Brad in six months time sitting in his home office occasionally picking up the phone and saying 'hello?' to the dial tone.
You can't talk about subscription numbers in a vacuum.
200,000 is good for the average mmo. But it is awful for a game that cost well over $30 million and 6 years to make.
Second, it's one thing to talk about how many boxes you sell. But these are subscription based games and you have to look at how many people quit.
Third, you have to factor in how much more money you have to sink into it. Vanguard isn't a polished product, and SOE acknowledges that. They are going to have to spend lots of money to fix this thing, assuming it can be fixed and assuming further they have the competence and the right plan to do it.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
What's the retention rate been? Forget boxes... how many of those are ongoing subscribers? That, we have not heard anything about.
C
You can't talk about subscription numbers in a vacuum.
200,000 is good for the average mmo. But it is awful for a game that cost well over $30 million and 6 years to make.
Second, it's one thing to talk about how many boxes you sell. But these are subscription based games and you have to look at how many people quit.
Third, you have to factor in how much more money you have to sink into it. Vanguard isn't a polished product, and SOE acknowledges that. They are going to have to spend lots of money to fix this thing, assuming it can be fixed and assuming further they have the competence and the right plan to do it.
Good point... 200k is good if you spent a couple mil to make it. VG was the second costliest next to WoW. They didn't even cover their beer tab.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
You can't talk about subscription numbers in a vacuum.
200,000 is good for the average mmo. But it is awful for a game that cost well over $30 million and 6 years to make.
Second, it's one thing to talk about how many boxes you sell. But these are subscription based games and you have to look at how many people quit.
Third, you have to factor in how much more money you have to sink into it. Vanguard isn't a polished product, and SOE acknowledges that. They are going to have to spend lots of money to fix this thing, assuming it can be fixed and assuming further they have the competence and the right plan to do it.
I also wrote.
That is also box sales, and not subs, but you knew that already
SoE buying out is very nice. A company with money, finally.
But you cut that out.
Considering that the average MMO is pretty much anything outside of WoW. And up until WoW getting 200k was considered a sucess. See, no where did I say they were sucesfull, I just agreed that 200k box sales is a healthy start. That's 200k potential customers.
What about retention? How many have actually stayed? Sure doesn't seem like very many or at most 1/3 perhaps 1/2.
Box sales count but for MMOs in the end it doesn't mean crap in the overall picture. For HL2 or Q4 it's the whole story but not an MMO. I wish Smed would quit trying to blow smoke up everyones arse with those numbers.
Well for those people still playing, I hope the game does get better for you because you're... erm... stubborn enough to keep playing. I have no faith in SOE though, so if the game gets NGEed I won't be surprised.
Right now I am playing it for 2 reasons.
1. A few of my friends play it, and the other ones that some friends play I'm either sick of (COH) or have no interested in (WOW).
2. There's really nothing out there that I find of more interest than Vanguard at the moment. And given the shape Vanguard is in that's actually a sad commentary on the state of MMORPGs.
But I am certainly NOT playing it because I "believe in" the vision, nor because I trust SOE, nor any of that. Nope... I'm just treading water with it till a game I really like comes out.
Saddest part is, I see very little in the upcoming releases to even tempt me.
C
You. Are. Congratulating. Them??
A company that switched publishers, produced a buggy, unstable product, then got bought out and just got half of their employees fired.
And you think that is deserving of a 'Good job'? What does a company have to do to get a 'bad job'? Commit worldwide genocide?
Unbelievable. It's these kind of opinions from people who support this game that will drive people away. Most people prefer notions grounded in something called reality.
And when I refer to Sigil the company I mean the people running the company, the ones in charge. Not the poor unforunates who were just doing their jobs as best that they could.
(And is that 'in-context' enough for you? Every one of your quotes that I've seen other people use when they argue with you have all been 'in-context').
Why would this be a surprise? By buying the company and keeping many of the same employees, it saves SOE money that they would otherwise have to spend on hiring new people, and finding a place to put them all.
By purchasing Sigil outright along with the game, they can have a much smoother transition of power, since the only real things that will change are the names on the letterhead and the company logos. The infrastructure stays the same.
Indie game companies don't usually have $30+ million at their disposal, as well as the backing of Microsoft, then Sony.
Put another way, he pissed away five years and $30+ million and ended up shoved out of his own company and replaced. He's also now marginalized as an "outside consultant", which is a nice way of saying that Smed will occasionally take his calls and read his e-mails. He's not going to have much of a hand in VG anymore.
You'd have more of an argument if Sigil had never had Microsoft or Sony backing them all along.
For the grunts who have just had their lives upended? Sure. They did the best they could. For Brad McQuaid? Not so much. He should never be let near game development funds again, and shouldn't be trusted to run a company, since he was clearly out of his depth.
Two parts really caught my eye, Brad being 'back-seated' to creative advisor (great HE gets to keep his job isnt it? ) and Dave Gilbertson taking the management reigns. If anyone else like me thought, 'who he?', LINK Thanks for the link
Also, yet another instance of the Smed publicly using the word 'mistake' and 'NGE' in the same sentance. That did look honost ...and that for someone from SOE..how could he
Toodles, bye
Tam
Smedley said.. "by the strong gaming community Vanguard has"
Who's he trying to kid with a statement like this? A strong gaming community? He's impling there's actually a lot of players in this game.
It's more like a lot of players who have left this game, a lot of ex-players who have trashed this game because of the way it is, the condition it's in.
I miss DAoC