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Things that make ya go hmmm...
StanlyManly
Member Posts: 181
Equal opportunity troll.
Comments
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Equal opportunity troll.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Lets say for sake of argument, that Sony was paying me to post negative things about LOTRO. How would they get a return on that investment? Would it garner them more subscriptions to EQ2 if I say that LOTRO has a flawed combat dynamic? Businesses certainly don't make it a habit to throw their money away.
See, you are just being argumentative, you aren't actually looking at the situation objectively. I'm just pointing out that there certainly is a industry out there that provides the service of padding numbers for websites with ratings, and creating favorable "user feedback". This isn't just about LOTRO, this is about the integrity of the internet and forums like these.
Equal opportunity troll.
Lets say for sake of argument, that Sony was paying me to post negative things about LOTRO. How would they get a return on that investment? Would it garner them more subscriptions to EQ2 if I say that LOTRO has a flawed combat dynamic? Businesses certainly don't make it a habit to throw their money away.
See, you are just being argumentative, you aren't actually looking at the situation objectively. I'm just pointing out that there certainly is a industry out there that provides the service of padding numbers for websites with ratings, and creating favorable "user feedback". This isn't just about LOTRO, this is about the integrity of the internet and forums like these.
If this isn't just about LotRO, then you should have posted this in the PUB.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Can't people just like a freakin game? If there are some that don't like it, big effin' deal...don't play it.
Why does there have to be this animosity among gamers when it comes down to taste. Some people like this, some people like that, good for everyone. Don't like LOTRO, then go play a game you do like, and leave those that do like it to enjoy it. Same goes for WoW, and every other game out there. I don't have a problem with someone not liking a game, and even telling others why. What I do disdain, and not understand, is this overwhelming desire to just smash people who DO like a game you yourself don't like. It's a sort of childish psychosis that is just beyond me. There are tons of games I don't like, for various reasons, but I don't feel the need to go into forums for those games, or gaming forums in general and blast away at it every chance I can find, or make fake accounts to slam a game or its players....I just don't play it. Is it that hard?
Geesh..
Still when someone formed his account just days before LoTRO launched and every single post is a bash on the LoTRO forums you might wonder.
I miss DAoC
Heh, you are right, I should have
Equal opportunity troll.
Firstly... this: http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/05/16/cybercrooks_gaming_google_1.html isn't even related to the gaming industry, much less in relation to LOTRO.
Secondly, it isn't even directly related to viral marketing in forums. That is what you're talking about, right? How on earth did you make the connection between that article, which is about advertisers using YouTube to spread adware, spyware and generate ill-gotten traffic, to viral marketing in forums or even to be as specific to LOTRO in particular??
Stanly... this is very, very poor - I must say. I usually find your "objective" views on LOTRO interesting at least, but you really scraped the bottom of the barrel by citing that link for the source of your intended discussion. If you are going to use something to back up your claims that Turbine may be hiring people to hype LOTRO in these forums, at least back up your claims with some directly-related evidence to support your claim.
Well put...unfortunately there are those that thrive on the negative. As you put it, a "childish psychosis"...those afflicted with it ironically, don't have a clue what it means...
Well put...unfortunately there are those that thrive on the negative. As you put it, a "childish psychosis"...those afflicted with it ironically, don't have a clue what it means...
The biggest bashers were probably the games biggest fanboys back when LoTRO was Middle Eath Online and Vivendi was the publisher. There were a few over on the old MEO forums who had grand visions of a Koster style sandbox Middle Earth where a hobbits biggest adventure would be a failed pipeweed crop. Most just moved on gracefully but a couple who obsessed over the game and feel like Turbine did them a horrible wrong when the game design ended up being a level based diku.I miss DAoC
"This is a nascent issue, but one that YouTube and the rest of the user-generated content sites need to confront now, as so much of the Web 2.0 concept is built around the idea of trusting the community to help make judgments about content's quality," said Laszlo. "These types of scams call into question how reliable the community aspect of Web 2.0 really is, and if these types of sites becomes susceptible to a lot of tricks, and content that people don't really want to see gets surfaced, people will question their value."
Equal opportunity troll.
Okay, fair enough. I see the tentative, very shaky connection in relation to marketing. But that's about it.
Yes, I read the entire article and understood it. The article itself is about advertisers luring unsuspecting people to visit sites, while not being honest about that site's content or purpose. Essentially it means that scammers are using YouTube and other user-generated content (like blogs, forums etc) to trick people to visit a link for the sole purpose of gaining quick returns with the use of spyware, adware, google AdSense link farms and other dishonest means of generating quick income.
If you were talking about gold sellers advertising on this forum and other sites under the guise of informative artciles about whatever game they're trying to sell gold on, then that link would be a great article to cite in relation to that problem. But you're not talking about gold sellers or scammers here. You're talking about viral marketing and trying to relate this distinct problem about scammers misleading people for a quick buck, to another problem about generating hype amongst a community for a game.
While both concepts might actually share a similar nature, only one of them truely works. Using YouTube and other community sites to generate quick and easy money works, while generating false hype about a game doesn't work. Just look at Vanguard. The forum hype and the review hype didn't work, did it?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
My big beef wtih MOST games is just that, also its with players that say their hardcore PVPers, especially in games where its point and click, no risk of loss due to a death other than running back to the hunting ground and its basicaly just button mashing with a lack of thought, just redundancy.
That's a rather simplistic bit of hyperbole, Jack. It neither speaks to the main issues as to why so many folks put the game on ignore when MEO was dropped for LOTRO, nor does it quantify in any meaningful sense how dumbed-down Turbine made the game in order to make a quick buck off the WoW craze. And Turbine did, by their own admission, tailor LOTRO for the WoW crowd (there are plenty of quotes by head honchos Steefel and Anderson waxing philosophically on the need to capture the WoW demographic and make WoW veterans as comfortable as possible). Lacking Vivendi's tremendous cash resources, they were less inclined to offer any innovation whatsoever, and opted not to gamble at all (not when they could blatantly emulate other games -- I won't use the 'W' word). This is all fine and dandy, and I understand Turbine's business decision; understanding their decision does not, however, make me respect their crass opportunism, nor does it make me in any way enamored of the game they've released.
Quite honestly, MEO offered far more interesting modes of character development, game mechanics and combat. The MEO development team was far more interested in enriching the inherent sense of community within the game (something currently LOTRO utterly lacks); unfortunately, rather than being able to fund the game at Blizzard's WoW level (in excess of $50 million), with the loss of Vivendi, Turbine's capital outlay was closer to $30 million. The size of Middle-earth shrunk drastically, the entire morale system was scrapped (there are only a few remnants remaining) and these features were either eliminated or put on the backburner for expansions:
Features Originally Planned:
Features That Are Out of the Current Game:
They even eliminated the 'Tolkien Expert' position within the development team, which was held by Daniel Greenberg, a notable Tolkien lorist and Creative Director of the Tolkien Franchise for Vivendi. That's right, after Vivendi left the project there was not one person directly involved in the game who had published any doctorate level Tolkien papers, or who could, in any sense of the word, be considered an expert on Middle-earth.
So, Jack, you got it all wrong. After seeing what could have been, it's rather unpalatable to be subjected to a thousand interminable kill quests where the only thing that changes is the level of the boar, warg or orc, and your avatar skims blithely across the landscape -- neither part of the world, nor able to make a difference within it.
P.S. Play the game if you like it, or don't play if you despise it....I won't try to convince you in either sense; in fact, I don't give a damn what you do. However, if someone asks my opinion, I will gladly reiterate it just as many times as those who wish to extoll the virtues of the game. I've followed the development of a Middle-earth based game since 1989: from Sierra to MM3D to Vivendi to Turbine. I've commented all along, and I'll continue for as long as it amuses me to do so. Perhaps it will change, who knows? I've waited over 8 years...I suppose I can wait a bit longer.
Morthoron the Moriquendi
Let me give you an example. Theres a frequent poster over on the VN Boards who claims to have purchased the lifetime subscription for himself, his wife, and his kid. Now, I'm not saying that guy is a shill. What I'm saying is that if his decision was influenced by shills, thats a $750 sale. Thats a lot of money taken away from a family that can never be refunded.
You know, I really don't mean to come across as all "holier than thou" about this issue. I'm just trying to get the word out that there really is an industry out there that is paid to use less than ethical (IMHO) sales tactics across the web (including forums). I know you read my last post about integrity before I got my "break", so I know you realize a bit where I'm coming from.
Equal opportunity troll.
Let me give you an example. Theres a frequent poster over on the VN Boards who claims to have purchased the lifetime subscription for himself, his wife, and his kid. Now, I'm not saying that guy is a shill. What I'm saying is that if his decision was influenced by shills, thats a $750 sale. Thats a lot of money taken away from a family that can never be refunded.
You know, I really don't mean to come across as all "holier than thou" about this issue. I'm just trying to get the word out that there really is an industry out there that is paid to use less than ethical (IMHO) sales tactics across the web (including forums). I know you read my last post about integrity before I got my "break", so I know you realize a bit where I'm coming from. Alright. If your intentions are good, then no harm. But, LOTR has a very good community. People should see it for what it is, with-out the thought that everyone who makes a positive post is a shill to the point nothing can be believed. Do what you gotta do, just do it the right way. Good communities are not as common anymore. Sorry you didnt like the game btw.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
That's a rather simplistic bit of hyperbole, Jack.
Yeah I always believe in getting directly to the point rather than writing a wall of text and dog earring my thesaurus on every post. . Remind me again, how long ago was it you stated that you never have anything to do with the game again? You should really just move on dude. Turbine is certainly not going to redesign the game for you at this point, and it is not healthy to obsess.
I bought the lifetime, it was a bargain for 200 bucks. I can count the boxes of games that I bought and never played after a month or two and they would add up to $750 easy. Just ordered a new video card last night to replace the 7900 I put in last year about this time too, guess that was a waste also. Cheaper than my neighbors hobby though, his boat costs him 300 in gas every time he takes it out.
But thanks for looking out for all of us big brother, otherwise we would all just spend most of f our money on hookers and beer and just waste whatever was left.
I miss DAoC
Making offhand statements that are factually incorrect does not lead directly to the point, and just because you need a thesaurus to read my post does not mean I required one to write it. Besides, many newer folk -- their eyes glazed over with repeated use of WoW --might not be aware of the differences between MEO and LOTRO, nor the history behind the changes. As far as obsessing, on the contrary, I talk about games or Tolkien every day in one forum or another. That's not obsessing....ummm...is it? *eyes twitch madly*
Morthoron the Moriquendi
Moved to the Off Topic Forum.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Allakhazam