WoW! Thanx for helping me avoid geting involved in a game where the developers are cheating! I almost downloaded and checked this out. I know people will tell me that it's over and done with, but if it can happen onc3e, it can happen again.
Riight.
I'm pretty sure it happens at least once in every single MMO/MMORPG that has EVER been released.
EVE is not anymore special than WOW, EQ1, EQ2, V:SoH, DAoC and so on...
Wake up and smell the flowers. Don't bother trying bring reason to these kids. This is probably the same guy who orignally created this thread. Its sad that people take the time to actually do this. If they hate the game that much, then don't play it. Simple as that.
There is a very large (mature) portion of EVE that don't buy into this dribble, and they will be at the top of the mountain when the dust settles.
WoW! Thanx for helping me avoid geting involved in a game where the developers are cheating! I almost downloaded and checked this out. I know people will tell me that it's over and done with, but if it can happen onc3e, it can happen again.
Riight.
I'm pretty sure it happens at least once in every single MMO/MMORPG that has EVER been released.
EVE is not anymore special than WOW, EQ1, EQ2, V:SoH, DAoC and so on...
Wake up and smell the flowers.Don't bother trying bring reason to these kids. This is probably the same guy who orignally created this thread. Its sad that people take the time to actually do this. If they hate the game that much, then don't play it. Simple as that.
There is a very large (mature) portion of EVE that don't buy into this dribble, and they will be at the top of the mountain when the dust settles.
First off, its extremely more significant in Eve than any other game, because of the way PvP is, the way you can lose months of time spent building ISK, they cheat, destroy your ship, etc....can significantly cause problems with isk.....
The way Eve is designed its all one big universe, all servers are connected, so what happens in one part of the galaxy will eventually affect the rest...
This isn't the case in most if not all other mmorpgs, perhaps the only one even close to similiar is world war 2 online, and I don't get the impression there is alot of cheating going on in that mmorpg. Its so significant and prevalent in Eve online that if you look at anything in particular you'll see it, and the fact that you think its a given shows how prevalent it is. Cheating in Eve affects everyone, but if a GM or dev cheats in WOW, EQ2, EQ, or most others, it affects nothing, I don't care if a GM cheated in some corner of the world against some NPC, even if he killed me with some uber item, i'd at most be affected for like 30 minutes while I recover exp/body....its not the same thing as Eve Online....and that is probably why there isn't alot of rampant cheating in other games and no one cares as much as on Eve Online, is because there is no incentive, there is a ton of incentive for Devs and GMs to cheat....more so than any other mmorpg out there...
Someone asked me to provide proof, I think the war with D2 and rest aganist BOD shows something, the Devs flatly denied ever giving out information, yet Band of Devs knew about the bottleneck ahead of time and even planned on how to use it to their advantage, but the alliance against them didn't....and fell into the trap by BoD that was created by the Dev's/GM.....yes, it was a big battle, but why didn't the DEV"s make an announcement or tell both sides? (they are partial to band of devs). yes, the alliannce against Bod and their allies did destroy the POS, but I highly doubht that the Dev's wouldn't reimburse anything they lost....
Someone once said that owning BPO's and especially BPO 2's is like having a printing press for ISK, and the fact that the DEV's played favorites with its distribution shows corruption...
Anyone who is fool enough to think this is an isolated incident or that the corruption isn't in all levels of CCP is kidding themselves....the only real way to win against them is to acknowledge the fact the game is corrupt (and thus stupid, why bother fighting against godmode), and move on to something where you can actually accomplish something besides paying to be cannon fodder to Dev's and their allies.....
Research for yourself, step away from the game and think rationally, and you'll come to the same conclusions that the majority of people who aren't totally addicted have realized......
========================== The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
WoW! Thanx for helping me avoid geting involved in a game where the developers are cheating! I almost downloaded and checked this out. I know people will tell me that it's over and done with, but if it can happen onc3e, it can happen again.
Riight.
I'm pretty sure it happens at least once in every single MMO/MMORPG that has EVER been released.
EVE is not anymore special than WOW, EQ1, EQ2, V:SoH, DAoC and so on...
Wake up and smell the flowers.Don't bother trying bring reason to these kids. This is probably the same guy who orignally created this thread. Its sad that people take the time to actually do this. If they hate the game that much, then don't play it. Simple as that.
There is a very large (mature) portion of EVE that don't buy into this dribble, and they will be at the top of the mountain when the dust settles.
First off, its extremely more significant in Eve than any other game, because of the way PvP is, the way you can lose months of time spent building ISK, they cheat, destroy your ship, etc....can significantly cause problems with isk.....
The way Eve is designed its all one big universe, all servers are connected, so what happens in one part of the galaxy will eventually affect the rest...
This isn't the case in most if not all other mmorpgs, perhaps the only one even close to similiar is world war 2 online, and I don't get the impression there is alot of cheating going on in that mmorpg. Its so significant and prevalent in Eve online that if you look at anything in particular you'll see it, and the fact that you think its a given shows how prevalent it is. Cheating in Eve affects everyone, but if a GM or dev cheats in WOW, EQ2, EQ, or most others, it affects nothing, I don't care if a GM cheated in some corner of the world against some NPC, even if he killed me with some uber item, i'd at most be affected for like 30 minutes while I recover exp/body....its not the same thing as Eve Online....and that is probably why there isn't alot of rampant cheating in other games and no one cares as much as on Eve Online, is because there is no incentive, there is a ton of incentive for Devs and GMs to cheat....more so than any other mmorpg out there...
Someone asked me to provide proof, I think the war with D2 and rest aganist BOD shows something, the Devs flatly denied ever giving out information, yet Band of Devs knew about the bottleneck ahead of time and even planned on how to use it to their advantage, but the alliance against them didn't....and fell into the trap by BoD that was created by the Dev's/GM.....yes, it was a big battle, but why didn't the DEV"s make an announcement or tell both sides? (they are partial to band of devs). yes, the alliannce against Bod and their allies did destroy the POS, but I highly doubht that the Dev's wouldn't reimburse anything they lost....
Someone once said that owning BPO's and especially BPO 2's is like having a printing press for ISK, and the fact that the DEV's played favorites with its distribution shows corruption...
Anyone who is fool enough to think this is an isolated incident or that the corruption isn't in all levels of CCP is kidding themselves....the only real way to win against them is to acknowledge the fact the game is corrupt (and thus stupid, why bother fighting against godmode), and move on to something where you can actually accomplish something besides paying to be cannon fodder to Dev's and their allies.....
Research for yourself, step away from the game and think rationally, and you'll come to the same conclusions that the majority of people who aren't totally addicted have realized......
Band of Devs, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You people brand every person in BoB as a Dev. So by your logic if I join BoB tomorrow I'm automatically a Dev and a cheat. Even though I've never and will ever be employed by CCP, or have I ever cheated in this game. One person cheats and you quickly assume the alliance is infested with devs. Coaltion used the same tactics, and their own propganda will be the product of their own destruction.
These are regular people just like you and me, yes someone cheated in their alliance. It could have happen to anyone, unfortnately it happend in their alliance. Do you know anyone from BoB personally? Can you honestly say for a fact that every person in Band of Brothers cheated and is in some way affiliated with CCP? Because if you really believe that then you really are knee deep in your own bull.
On a side note. There are alliances in this game who have a monsteres resource. But isk and supply doesn't mean anything if you don't know what your're doing. Ask D2 and their allies, they have all the resource isk they need to win, THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO WIN. They aren't losing because BoB cheats, they are losing because they aren't doing what it takes to win. Half of their own people don't believe most of the proganda (BoD, their allies are pets, extc...) they spew. Their hearts aren't completely in it, and their faith in what their doing is crumbling because of it.
Blackcat, you asked a question about the official eve forums. The company started a thread regarding the cheating and fielded questions for three days. They then shut down the thread and replied to (I think) six of the questions. They shut down any attempts to ask additional questions.
Dive82syko,
This "so yesterday's news" is three months old. If it's so old and so irrelevant, then you have nothing to be so scared about, okay?
CCP did indeed state that they uncovered the cheating six months prior to the revelations being made public by a player. However, CCP also stated that it would fire any employee caught cheating. T20 was definitely not fired. Also, the apology by T20 claimed that the cheating was limited to I think about 6 tech II BPOs. The allegation was MUCH wider. And CCP initially stated that the whistle blower was a liar, that there was never any cheating - and they made that statement AFTER they later claimed that they had uncovered the cheating and punished the cheater six months earlier. The contradictions sort of make you dizzy. T20 stated that he obtained the BPOs illegally, but he never passed on any information. I'm not sure I can believe that given that he was in charge of BoB's capital fleet. We who have played Eve know how valuable information can be in this game, and T20 (1) had insider information, and (2) had a proven willingness to cheat. In the face of those two undeniable facts, it is hard to believe that the cheating was limited as claimed in T20s apology.
And that is what this is really about - trust. Who do you trust. Are you willing to play a game that is a REAL time sink (I mean, this thing will soak up your time like a sponge), not being sure whether the playing field is level? If yes, fine. If no, fine too. But people should have the right to make an INFORMED choice. I am not trying to force my opinion on anyone. In fact, I've stated that I do not even know whether the cheating has altered the game play. If the cheating was limited as claimed by T20, then it could not alter gameplay.
But I know that there was cheating. I know that CCP says the cheating was limited - after they initially denied there was any cheating at all. I know that the person who uncovered the cheating claims that it was definitely significant enough to effect gameplay. I know that the alliance which benifited from the cheating is sweeping the game. There's a few other known facts already listed in this thread. Each of us needs to take those facts and make our own choice.
I do warn you to be careful what you wish for. You think it would be great for BoB to completely own 0.0? Do you really believe the game will be economically viable if that happens? You may indeed end up on the "top of the mountain" - and a very lonely mountain indeed. But you nevertheless raise a valid point, and that is the secondary effect of the cheating. I cannot gauge it's effect, but I do know that the last time I flew in Branch - yesterday, immediately before cancelling all three of my accounts - BoB allies vastly outnumbered D2 allies. I do wonder if that is due to people like myself leaving the game. There is no way I can know.
However, I did leave Eve yesterday, after nearly eighteen months of frequent play. The sun still shines. My dog loved having a long walk. My daughter laughed on the swing. My wife appreciated that I cleaned the house so well. It's amazing how much time I spent on that game.
I did find another game. I will always miss my Eve, but not CCP.
QFT
Even if i'd continue EVE, i'd never touch a new CCP game. If eve was run by someelse, i would really think about coming back until ... uhh yeah ... those 30,40,50 ? million sp people will be out of reach forever.
Don't bother trying bring reason to these kids. This is probably the same guy who orignally created this thread. Its sad that people take the time to actually do this. If they hate the game that much, then don't play it. Simple as that.
There is a very large (mature) portion of EVE that don't buy into this dribble, and they will be at the top of the mountain when the dust settles.
Yup... I know what you mean... evidenced by the morons above.
Cheers mate
If enough people quit, and it seems that people are quitting because of this, then there will be no mountain, because Eve Online will fold....now do I think CCP and Eve Online will fold because of their extravagant and excessive cheating/scamming....no, I don't think Eve Online will fold, not even if it was revealed they cheated in 5 more instances, people who are addicted and who are getting addicted as we speak will enjoy Eve for what it is........
Its interesting that you can call people names and dismiss anything no matter how factual as dribble.....I do agree with you that there are alot of people who still play Eve that either don't know or don't care or are too addicted to quit......
Regarding someone else who was talking about the actual Name further up in this thread, quoting me and went on to talk for a few paragraphs about Band of Dev's name, BOB got BOD name because they are supported by Dev's, they have inside information, and The main reason everyone and their dogs is fighting BOD is because of the cheating, they didn't want to quit and are trying to be proactive in attempting to correct the cheating by destroying the cheaters and their pets.....So yes, not everyone in BOB is a Dev, but they got this name because they 1) have inside information evident in the huge war where they knew things the other side didn't regarding Dev's limiting amount of ships in the combat system (2) T20 never quit and as far as I know is still in BOD, and its not that hard to speculate he isn't the only one in BOD, (3) is enjoyable to use an acronym to show the simple fact in shorthand the above 2 points (4) generally its easier to say nobody likes the cheating band of Dev's, than to have to elaborate over and over and beat the dead horse on all the various facts we know on why this is the case.....that yes, they cheat, yes they always will cheat, and they don't want to go into details on how pervasive and really game affecting their cheating is.....
Its not a level playing field, its not designed to be a level playing field, its designed to be their personal sandbox, and your lucky to rent it, yes, they get plenty of real money from you to play their game, but ultimately its their game/sandbox, and they can sell ingame items and their chars, but you cannot......if your caught you're thrown out.....people have stated before BOD was selling their chars, and people have caught them, but these chars and BOD members were not banned, why, because CCP and GM employees are not interested in banning their friends when they do the same exact thing.....
The person who initially exposed CCP cheating was banned (Kug), one of the reasons sited was that he gave away personal info of someone in game. Sir Molle, who was in BOD, their leader, also did the exact same thing to Kug, exposing personal info about him, but SIr Molle wasn't banned from the game.....level playing field check - nope, one person banned for sited reasons but another not banned for same sited reasons....
Its been suspected Dev's were cheating and their stated goals early days was biased, they never really come out and say they are impartial, how can they be when they are in the middle of their own self created adventures ( make an adventure that awards a titan and surprisingly they win it)......
You don't have to look that deep into the past or that far into the future, just look at the current events, human psychology, and basic reasoning to realize their is a reason why T20 wasn't fired and that CCP is corrupt and they don't want to talk about it.......
Did I mention they have buggy code and allow many extra exploits because of this buggy code? Many of their newer ideas are poorly thought out and poorly executed.....
If the users wanna be ostriches though, and stick their heads in the sand, that is their perogative.....they can deny and deny....
========================== The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
ok im going to throw in my 2 cents look im not going to say this was a non important event but really it didnt affect me or any of my friends in the game and we have lots of fun we have heard of BoBs crap but we really dont care as long as yu stay out of major corp wars your golden but one thing iv actually seen Devs do this on other games i was a tester for SWG and i remember when it first started the devs were giving themselves whatever they wanted and they made items no one else could get this shit happenes all the time and any company worth its salt will try and cover it up but the sad fact is it happens. the devs for maplestory do it the devs for SWG do it. the devs for voyage do it. the difference is they dont get caught and they dont do anything truly stupid and i will say this once the reason that dev hasnt been fired yet is for a simple reason......even the company knows its just a game and ruining a mans career over it isnt worth it you people are vindictive and just mad that he didnt choose to help you and your corp get over and play the game its fun when you stop hitting the horse
oh and i will admit that the gag on this subject is badly handled
oh and dont say oooh noo i lost a ship my months of work are over boo hoo listen dont fly anything in dangerous space that you cant afford to lose simple as that its tough when you lose a ship but get over it you chose to play a game that takes time and patience just play and have fun and if your not having fun PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME please for god sakes we true eve players dont want to hear it anymore were tired of this subject were tired of the crap and were tired of you idiots saying that the whole game is ruined because a corp cheated
IT DOESNT MATTER GET OVER IT GO ON WITH YOUR LIVES AND PLEASE PLEASE BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DONT BRING THIS SUBJECT UP AGAIN i said that in caps so maybe it will penetrate your thick skull
My goodness, such vitriolic drivel ("drivel," by the way, is a noun, as opposed to "dribble," which is a verb).
These are undeniable facts: Band of Brothers had a game developer in charge of their capital ship fleet. That game developer provided cheats to BoB. The developer claims the cheating was very limited in scope. The whistleblower claims the scope of the cheating was vastly greater than what was admitted. BoB continues to be the premier butt-kicker in the Eve universe. If anyone believes that any of these facts listed in this paragraph are not accurate, please say so (but be specific).
A person considering whether to play Eve can reasonably conclude that these facts show circumstantially that it is likely that in fact the cheating was more significant than what was admitted. This is because the fact that BoB, the Alliance which received the cheats, just so happens to be the same Alliance that is reigning supreme in Eve. That is too large a coincidence for many people to swallow.
I understand that some of you have devoted almost full time (unpaid) employment to this game since 2003, and that this issue is painful to you. You are afraid of what the future may bring to Eve, and that is understandable.
Nevertheless, I insist that newcomers to this game have a right to know what occurred here, (a mere three months ago), and to decide for themselves whether or not this is something to consider when they make the choice of whether or not to devote themselves to this game.
Your anger is misdirected; you should be angry at T20. He is a CCP employee who did in fact provide cheats to the most powerful Alliance in the game. It is not my fault for wondering about that tidy coincidence.
Well if you want to infom newcomers about DEV corruption don't forget the incident where LV got the free carrier or it may have been the Mothership through insider info from DEVs in their alliance. In fact many alliances with DEVs have been caught cheating and everytime CCP sweeps it under the carpet. BoB is probably the worst cullprit (GMs saving their shipyards from being wasted), but not the only alliance that does it.
The top alliances all use their DEVs to get an edge as if you don't you put yourself at a severe disadvantage. BoB will never take over EVE or defeat all the other alliances because CCP wouldn't allow it. But aslong as CCP continue to prop them up like business men funding a political party to do their bidding they'll stay at the top.
I just get the feeling that CCP have changed the game in favour of the mass audience (PVE) and kept the PvP part for them and their puppet alliances. Leaving me in a position where I'm spending time and money to get blobbed by CCP and their minions. My problem being I'm a PvPer and the only space where PvP doesn't lag like hell is either empire or BoB territory because CCP keep those nodes reinforced. They changed it so war decs (AKA empire wars) are too expensive and the system can be exploited to make war decs too much for anyone, so empire is now out of the question. Normal 0.0 is laggy and always crashing and it takes hours to find a real fight then it's time for blob wars (/yawn). Leaving BoB space where I can go to be entertainment for the DEVs at CCP and their puppets, so now I play BF: 2142 for PvP and play EVE as the PVE game it has turned into.
EVE is a great game, just that CCP are corrupt. If you don't PvP you won't have any problems with their corrupt devs though. Everything I just said was my opinion so please try not to be personaly abusive if replying to this post, thankyou
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Calling specefic cheaters is a big thing but in my years long interest in the game I have seen countless of examples of favorism towards certain groups of players in EVE, even in the far beginning of the game. But it is also my belief that the accumulation of this favorism plays a big part in what parties are the dominant groups in EVE today.
But generally I do not care. I can personally not be bothered with doing any kind of hugely effort in a game and then also pay the cash for it. Though what made me quit EVE was when I realised a growing tendency accepting "hardcore player" as a border-line cheater. That is not why I play games, I do not have to be near a possible breach of the EULA to have success in a game. As it became clear even the dev's shared this acceptance I simple quit and moved on.
As far as I know, the T20 incident is the only case in which CCP admits that a dev cheated. Other cheats involved GMs, but the T20 incident was somewhat unique in that he had all the access that a game developer naturally possessed. Actually, nobody knows precisely by what mechanism he spawned the BPOs, but it was beyond that which a GM could accomplish. Officially CCP does not allow devs to cheat, and supposedly their accounts are not supposed to reveal the fact that they are devs. I think claims about other cheating incidents involving devs are unproven. This proven incident involved the dev T20 cheating on behalf of BoB, the most powerful alliance in the game. That combination of facts is what made it so noteworthy. If he had cheated on behalf of a bunch of "carebears" (players who do not engage in PvP battles), nobody would have raised an eyebrow, myself included. But his cheating on behalf of BoB understandably called into question the source of BoB's greatness.
Perhaps CCP will not allow BoB to "take over Eve," but from my observations last week they certainly appeared unstoppable. But how would they reign in BoB without causing many of them to become angered to the point of cancelling their acounts? Although I do think it is possible that the T20 cheating was WAY more substantial than admitted, I do not at all buy this stuff about "CCP and their minions." CCP is a game company in business to earn real money, NOT isk. The integrity of their game really is a top concern, I believe that. What I question is to what degree did this one renegade dev make the game possibly unstable. Again, BoB really is kicking butt and I just find it difficult to believe it is a coincidence. I was okay with getting my butt kicked when there was no cheating, but once I realized that this alliance kicking my butt had received developer assistance well, then I think I'd prefer to walk my dog and play with my kid.
Plz do not say that he spawned them to help BoB. he did not he spawned them to help himself. It helped BoB because of thier organizational structure. If there was a Dev in my corp that spawned BPOs the same would happen as any BPOs must be at minimum available for use by the other corp members.
And since GMs can spawn items for players they would have the same abilities.
Wow ... I didn't expect to get flamed. I was just saying thanx for tipping me off. I was browsing MMORPG for a new game to try and I was interested in trying EvE since I really want a new Sci-Fi MMO to play. I didn't mean to piss people off, I just wanted to thank the people responsible for keeping me from wasting my time. I am married with 2 kids (1 yr & 2 yrs) with another kid due in Late June and I have a lot on my plate, so I don't have much time to play. I didn't want to get into something then find out I chose the wrong game(That's already happened to me once.). Fairplay, fun and quality gaming are important to me since I have so many responsibilities. From what I understand about Eve, a dev cheating by sharing resources unfairly with a group of favored players is a pretty big deal and throws the whole balance of the game out of whack. I just didn't want to be part of a game where that happens. And for anyone who says "It happens in every MMO." I say ... Prove it. I've never heard of it happening before. Show me that it's true with some kind of proof and not just because you say its true. Its iresponsible and asinine to just start making that kind of stuff up because you believe it must be happening. I never said I hated Eve. I just said thanx. Jeeze guys, do you just sit on theboards here and wait for someone to attack? Get over it. I'm just a regular guy who said thank you.
Good grief.
PS: I ended up checking out Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar. I know it's not Sci-Fi, but I couldn't find any Sci-Fi games rated over 7.0 that I haven't tried yet. I wish Anarchy Online wasn't so dated and didn't run so crappily on my rig (not sure why that's the case since I have a pretty nice Gaming rig. It runs so choppy!) because it seemed like a really good game. I'm hoping the runors about a Warhammer 40k MMO aren't wrong. I'd love to play in that world.
this is a dead horse. do we really have to beat it more?
/agree.
I'm new to EVE and even I know that this is old news. Just play the game and have fun like I'm doing and don't worry about something that happened so clearly in the past.
Bren
the event he relates happened in the past. the continued cheating however...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Plz do not say that he spawned them to help BoB. he did not he spawned them to help himself. It helped BoB because of thier organizational structure. If there was a Dev in my corp that spawned BPOs the same would happen as any BPOs must be at minimum available for use by the other corp members.
And since GMs can spawn items for players they would have the same abilities.
quoted for wtf???
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
WoW! Thanx for helping me avoid geting involved in a game where the developers are cheating! I almost downloaded and checked this out. I know people will tell me that it's over and done with, but if it can happen onc3e, it can happen again.
Riight.
I'm pretty sure it happens at least once in every single MMO/MMORPG that has EVER been released.
EVE is not anymore special than WOW, EQ1, EQ2, V:SoH, DAoC and so on...
Wake up and smell the flowers.
proof or STFU.
simple enough eh?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
People need to get over all this cheating talk. There is dev misconduct going on in every MMO. They're all human, and no one is perfect. We all have to make judgement calls, and someone will always find a certain decision unfair.
And it doesnt matter whether the game is pvp or pve. Top end pve guilds take pride in being the first to conquer various endgame content. If one guild gets help from devs, that matters to a lot of other players. The same applies to pvp games.
GM abuse has been around since the first MMO. UO had it's problems, so did WoW and I'm sure most games out there today have those problems.
Yup a guy got caught cheating in BoB. Do I like it? No. Does it mean the entire game is corrupt and BoB is a bunch of cheaters? No. And I'm not in BoB, will never join them or any of their "pets" or even be blue to them.
This current campaign to discredit CCP is, in my opinion, the work of a small vocal group of players who have decided to do whatever it takes to not only bring BoB down, but the game as well as the company.
I was disappointed with what happened. But I'm going to give CCP a chance to clean up the game. It really is a great game and still can improve a lot. The cheating talk is getting old. Lets move on and try to rebuild this community and make it even better instead of trying to destroy it.
WoW! Thanx for helping me avoid geting involved in a game where the developers are cheating! I almost downloaded and checked this out. I know people will tell me that it's over and done with, but if it can happen onc3e, it can happen again.
Riight.
I'm pretty sure it happens at least once in every single MMO/MMORPG that has EVER been released.
EVE is not anymore special than WOW, EQ1, EQ2, V:SoH, DAoC and so on...
Wake up and smell the flowers.
proof or STFU.
simple enough eh?
I remember an EQ1 dev putting in a vendor at the bottom of befallen that would exchange coins for a higher level coinage.
SOE went apeshit over it. Screwed up the economy for a bit.
No idea 'bout the others. But I imagine it does happen.
As for EVE, I felt like some guy playing in a D&D campaign with the DM's wife...
"Oh look! She just stumbled over a +2 Vorpal Sword and it is her preferred weapon! A cutlass! And it's PINK!"
*groan*
So I walked. The game wasn't that much fun to me, so I put on my walkin' shoes and left.
Ironically I'm going to say that if your time for playing games is limited, then the whole T20 cheating thing may not matter to you. Doing well in Eve requires a HUGE time investment, and if you don't have a lot of time to play this game then you likely won't get to the point where it really matter much (the huge 0.0 warfare). There IS I admit a lot of other things to do in Eve. Unfortunately the game is quite boring in the beginning (the beginning can last for many months).
I maintain it's important for people to know about the cheating issue. If you go ahead and try their free two-week trial yourself, I think at the end of those two weeks you will well understand precisely what I mean when I say that to play Eve well requires a lot of time. You will, I think, also gain an insider understanding of how important mere information is within the game, and thereby understand why devs playing within any player alliance is a very controversial thing even in the absence of cheating. Of course, the game is strangely addictive, so watch out.
It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
Is EVE nay-sayers, nothing you can really do about it.
It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.
As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.
Comments
I'm pretty sure it happens at least once in every single MMO/MMORPG that has EVER been released.
EVE is not anymore special than WOW, EQ1, EQ2, V:SoH, DAoC and so on...
Wake up and smell the flowers. Don't bother trying bring reason to these kids. This is probably the same guy who orignally created this thread. Its sad that people take the time to actually do this. If they hate the game that much, then don't play it. Simple as that.
There is a very large (mature) portion of EVE that don't buy into this dribble, and they will be at the top of the mountain when the dust settles.
I'm pretty sure it happens at least once in every single MMO/MMORPG that has EVER been released.
EVE is not anymore special than WOW, EQ1, EQ2, V:SoH, DAoC and so on...
Wake up and smell the flowers.Don't bother trying bring reason to these kids. This is probably the same guy who orignally created this thread. Its sad that people take the time to actually do this. If they hate the game that much, then don't play it. Simple as that.
There is a very large (mature) portion of EVE that don't buy into this dribble, and they will be at the top of the mountain when the dust settles.
First off, its extremely more significant in Eve than any other game, because of the way PvP is, the way you can lose months of time spent building ISK, they cheat, destroy your ship, etc....can significantly cause problems with isk.....
The way Eve is designed its all one big universe, all servers are connected, so what happens in one part of the galaxy will eventually affect the rest...
This isn't the case in most if not all other mmorpgs, perhaps the only one even close to similiar is world war 2 online, and I don't get the impression there is alot of cheating going on in that mmorpg. Its so significant and prevalent in Eve online that if you look at anything in particular you'll see it, and the fact that you think its a given shows how prevalent it is. Cheating in Eve affects everyone, but if a GM or dev cheats in WOW, EQ2, EQ, or most others, it affects nothing, I don't care if a GM cheated in some corner of the world against some NPC, even if he killed me with some uber item, i'd at most be affected for like 30 minutes while I recover exp/body....its not the same thing as Eve Online....and that is probably why there isn't alot of rampant cheating in other games and no one cares as much as on Eve Online, is because there is no incentive, there is a ton of incentive for Devs and GMs to cheat....more so than any other mmorpg out there...
Someone asked me to provide proof, I think the war with D2 and rest aganist BOD shows something, the Devs flatly denied ever giving out information, yet Band of Devs knew about the bottleneck ahead of time and even planned on how to use it to their advantage, but the alliance against them didn't....and fell into the trap by BoD that was created by the Dev's/GM.....yes, it was a big battle, but why didn't the DEV"s make an announcement or tell both sides? (they are partial to band of devs). yes, the alliannce against Bod and their allies did destroy the POS, but I highly doubht that the Dev's wouldn't reimburse anything they lost....
Someone once said that owning BPO's and especially BPO 2's is like having a printing press for ISK, and the fact that the DEV's played favorites with its distribution shows corruption...
Anyone who is fool enough to think this is an isolated incident or that the corruption isn't in all levels of CCP is kidding themselves....the only real way to win against them is to acknowledge the fact the game is corrupt (and thus stupid, why bother fighting against godmode), and move on to something where you can actually accomplish something besides paying to be cannon fodder to Dev's and their allies.....
Research for yourself, step away from the game and think rationally, and you'll come to the same conclusions that the majority of people who aren't totally addicted have realized......
==========================
The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
I'm pretty sure it happens at least once in every single MMO/MMORPG that has EVER been released.
EVE is not anymore special than WOW, EQ1, EQ2, V:SoH, DAoC and so on...
Wake up and smell the flowers.Don't bother trying bring reason to these kids. This is probably the same guy who orignally created this thread. Its sad that people take the time to actually do this. If they hate the game that much, then don't play it. Simple as that.
There is a very large (mature) portion of EVE that don't buy into this dribble, and they will be at the top of the mountain when the dust settles.
First off, its extremely more significant in Eve than any other game, because of the way PvP is, the way you can lose months of time spent building ISK, they cheat, destroy your ship, etc....can significantly cause problems with isk.....
The way Eve is designed its all one big universe, all servers are connected, so what happens in one part of the galaxy will eventually affect the rest...
This isn't the case in most if not all other mmorpgs, perhaps the only one even close to similiar is world war 2 online, and I don't get the impression there is alot of cheating going on in that mmorpg. Its so significant and prevalent in Eve online that if you look at anything in particular you'll see it, and the fact that you think its a given shows how prevalent it is. Cheating in Eve affects everyone, but if a GM or dev cheats in WOW, EQ2, EQ, or most others, it affects nothing, I don't care if a GM cheated in some corner of the world against some NPC, even if he killed me with some uber item, i'd at most be affected for like 30 minutes while I recover exp/body....its not the same thing as Eve Online....and that is probably why there isn't alot of rampant cheating in other games and no one cares as much as on Eve Online, is because there is no incentive, there is a ton of incentive for Devs and GMs to cheat....more so than any other mmorpg out there...
Someone asked me to provide proof, I think the war with D2 and rest aganist BOD shows something, the Devs flatly denied ever giving out information, yet Band of Devs knew about the bottleneck ahead of time and even planned on how to use it to their advantage, but the alliance against them didn't....and fell into the trap by BoD that was created by the Dev's/GM.....yes, it was a big battle, but why didn't the DEV"s make an announcement or tell both sides? (they are partial to band of devs). yes, the alliannce against Bod and their allies did destroy the POS, but I highly doubht that the Dev's wouldn't reimburse anything they lost....
Someone once said that owning BPO's and especially BPO 2's is like having a printing press for ISK, and the fact that the DEV's played favorites with its distribution shows corruption...
Anyone who is fool enough to think this is an isolated incident or that the corruption isn't in all levels of CCP is kidding themselves....the only real way to win against them is to acknowledge the fact the game is corrupt (and thus stupid, why bother fighting against godmode), and move on to something where you can actually accomplish something besides paying to be cannon fodder to Dev's and their allies.....
Research for yourself, step away from the game and think rationally, and you'll come to the same conclusions that the majority of people who aren't totally addicted have realized......
Band of Devs, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You people brand every person in BoB as a Dev. So by your logic if I join BoB tomorrow I'm automatically a Dev and a cheat. Even though I've never and will ever be employed by CCP, or have I ever cheated in this game. One person cheats and you quickly assume the alliance is infested with devs. Coaltion used the same tactics, and their own propganda will be the product of their own destruction.
These are regular people just like you and me, yes someone cheated in their alliance. It could have happen to anyone, unfortnately it happend in their alliance. Do you know anyone from BoB personally? Can you honestly say for a fact that every person in Band of Brothers cheated and is in some way affiliated with CCP? Because if you really believe that then you really are knee deep in your own bull.
On a side note. There are alliances in this game who have a monsteres resource. But isk and supply doesn't mean anything if you don't know what your're doing. Ask D2 and their allies, they have all the resource isk they need to win, THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO WIN. They aren't losing because BoB cheats, they are losing because they aren't doing what it takes to win. Half of their own people don't believe most of the proganda (BoD, their allies are pets, extc...) they spew. Their hearts aren't completely in it, and their faith in what their doing is crumbling because of it.
Blackcat, you asked a question about the official eve forums. The company started a thread regarding the cheating and fielded questions for three days. They then shut down the thread and replied to (I think) six of the questions. They shut down any attempts to ask additional questions.
Dive82syko,
This "so yesterday's news" is three months old. If it's so old and so irrelevant, then you have nothing to be so scared about, okay?
CCP did indeed state that they uncovered the cheating six months prior to the revelations being made public by a player. However, CCP also stated that it would fire any employee caught cheating. T20 was definitely not fired. Also, the apology by T20 claimed that the cheating was limited to I think about 6 tech II BPOs. The allegation was MUCH wider. And CCP initially stated that the whistle blower was a liar, that there was never any cheating - and they made that statement AFTER they later claimed that they had uncovered the cheating and punished the cheater six months earlier. The contradictions sort of make you dizzy. T20 stated that he obtained the BPOs illegally, but he never passed on any information. I'm not sure I can believe that given that he was in charge of BoB's capital fleet. We who have played Eve know how valuable information can be in this game, and T20 (1) had insider information, and (2) had a proven willingness to cheat. In the face of those two undeniable facts, it is hard to believe that the cheating was limited as claimed in T20s apology.
And that is what this is really about - trust. Who do you trust. Are you willing to play a game that is a REAL time sink (I mean, this thing will soak up your time like a sponge), not being sure whether the playing field is level? If yes, fine. If no, fine too. But people should have the right to make an INFORMED choice. I am not trying to force my opinion on anyone. In fact, I've stated that I do not even know whether the cheating has altered the game play. If the cheating was limited as claimed by T20, then it could not alter gameplay.
But I know that there was cheating. I know that CCP says the cheating was limited - after they initially denied there was any cheating at all. I know that the person who uncovered the cheating claims that it was definitely significant enough to effect gameplay. I know that the alliance which benifited from the cheating is sweeping the game. There's a few other known facts already listed in this thread. Each of us needs to take those facts and make our own choice.
I do warn you to be careful what you wish for. You think it would be great for BoB to completely own 0.0? Do you really believe the game will be economically viable if that happens? You may indeed end up on the "top of the mountain" - and a very lonely mountain indeed. But you nevertheless raise a valid point, and that is the secondary effect of the cheating. I cannot gauge it's effect, but I do know that the last time I flew in Branch - yesterday, immediately before cancelling all three of my accounts - BoB allies vastly outnumbered D2 allies. I do wonder if that is due to people like myself leaving the game. There is no way I can know.
However, I did leave Eve yesterday, after nearly eighteen months of frequent play. The sun still shines. My dog loved having a long walk. My daughter laughed on the swing. My wife appreciated that I cleaned the house so well. It's amazing how much time I spent on that game.
Enjoy your mountain.
Even if i'd continue EVE, i'd never touch a new CCP game. If eve was run by someelse, i would really think about coming back until ... uhh yeah ... those 30,40,50 ? million sp people will be out of reach forever.
Cheers mate
If enough people quit, and it seems that people are quitting because of this, then there will be no mountain, because Eve Online will fold....now do I think CCP and Eve Online will fold because of their extravagant and excessive cheating/scamming....no, I don't think Eve Online will fold, not even if it was revealed they cheated in 5 more instances, people who are addicted and who are getting addicted as we speak will enjoy Eve for what it is........
Its interesting that you can call people names and dismiss anything no matter how factual as dribble.....I do agree with you that there are alot of people who still play Eve that either don't know or don't care or are too addicted to quit......
Regarding someone else who was talking about the actual Name further up in this thread, quoting me and went on to talk for a few paragraphs about Band of Dev's name, BOB got BOD name because they are supported by Dev's, they have inside information, and The main reason everyone and their dogs is fighting BOD is because of the cheating, they didn't want to quit and are trying to be proactive in attempting to correct the cheating by destroying the cheaters and their pets.....So yes, not everyone in BOB is a Dev, but they got this name because they 1) have inside information evident in the huge war where they knew things the other side didn't regarding Dev's limiting amount of ships in the combat system (2) T20 never quit and as far as I know is still in BOD, and its not that hard to speculate he isn't the only one in BOD, (3) is enjoyable to use an acronym to show the simple fact in shorthand the above 2 points (4) generally its easier to say nobody likes the cheating band of Dev's, than to have to elaborate over and over and beat the dead horse on all the various facts we know on why this is the case.....that yes, they cheat, yes they always will cheat, and they don't want to go into details on how pervasive and really game affecting their cheating is.....
Its not a level playing field, its not designed to be a level playing field, its designed to be their personal sandbox, and your lucky to rent it, yes, they get plenty of real money from you to play their game, but ultimately its their game/sandbox, and they can sell ingame items and their chars, but you cannot......if your caught you're thrown out.....people have stated before BOD was selling their chars, and people have caught them, but these chars and BOD members were not banned, why, because CCP and GM employees are not interested in banning their friends when they do the same exact thing.....
The person who initially exposed CCP cheating was banned (Kug), one of the reasons sited was that he gave away personal info of someone in game. Sir Molle, who was in BOD, their leader, also did the exact same thing to Kug, exposing personal info about him, but SIr Molle wasn't banned from the game.....level playing field check - nope, one person banned for sited reasons but another not banned for same sited reasons....
Its been suspected Dev's were cheating and their stated goals early days was biased, they never really come out and say they are impartial, how can they be when they are in the middle of their own self created adventures ( make an adventure that awards a titan and surprisingly they win it)......
You don't have to look that deep into the past or that far into the future, just look at the current events, human psychology, and basic reasoning to realize their is a reason why T20 wasn't fired and that CCP is corrupt and they don't want to talk about it.......
Did I mention they have buggy code and allow many extra exploits because of this buggy code? Many of their newer ideas are poorly thought out and poorly executed.....
If the users wanna be ostriches though, and stick their heads in the sand, that is their perogative.....they can deny and deny....
==========================
The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
oh and i will admit that the gag on this subject is badly handled
oh and dont say oooh noo i lost a ship my months of work are over boo hoo listen dont fly anything in dangerous space that you cant afford to lose simple as that its tough when you lose a ship but get over it you chose to play a game that takes time and patience just play and have fun and if your not having fun PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME please for god sakes we true eve players dont want to hear it anymore were tired of this subject were tired of the crap and were tired of you idiots saying that the whole game is ruined because a corp cheated
IT DOESNT MATTER GET OVER IT GO ON WITH YOUR LIVES AND PLEASE PLEASE BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DONT BRING THIS SUBJECT UP AGAIN i said that in caps so maybe it will penetrate your thick skull
genius inside insanity
My goodness, such vitriolic drivel ("drivel," by the way, is a noun, as opposed to "dribble," which is a verb).
These are undeniable facts: Band of Brothers had a game developer in charge of their capital ship fleet. That game developer provided cheats to BoB. The developer claims the cheating was very limited in scope. The whistleblower claims the scope of the cheating was vastly greater than what was admitted. BoB continues to be the premier butt-kicker in the Eve universe. If anyone believes that any of these facts listed in this paragraph are not accurate, please say so (but be specific).
A person considering whether to play Eve can reasonably conclude that these facts show circumstantially that it is likely that in fact the cheating was more significant than what was admitted. This is because the fact that BoB, the Alliance which received the cheats, just so happens to be the same Alliance that is reigning supreme in Eve. That is too large a coincidence for many people to swallow.
I understand that some of you have devoted almost full time (unpaid) employment to this game since 2003, and that this issue is painful to you. You are afraid of what the future may bring to Eve, and that is understandable.
Nevertheless, I insist that newcomers to this game have a right to know what occurred here, (a mere three months ago), and to decide for themselves whether or not this is something to consider when they make the choice of whether or not to devote themselves to this game.
Your anger is misdirected; you should be angry at T20. He is a CCP employee who did in fact provide cheats to the most powerful Alliance in the game. It is not my fault for wondering about that tidy coincidence.
Well if you want to infom newcomers about DEV corruption don't forget the incident where LV got the free carrier or it may have been the Mothership through insider info from DEVs in their alliance. In fact many alliances with DEVs have been caught cheating and everytime CCP sweeps it under the carpet. BoB is probably the worst cullprit (GMs saving their shipyards from being wasted), but not the only alliance that does it.
The top alliances all use their DEVs to get an edge as if you don't you put yourself at a severe disadvantage. BoB will never take over EVE or defeat all the other alliances because CCP wouldn't allow it. But aslong as CCP continue to prop them up like business men funding a political party to do their bidding they'll stay at the top.
I just get the feeling that CCP have changed the game in favour of the mass audience (PVE) and kept the PvP part for them and their puppet alliances. Leaving me in a position where I'm spending time and money to get blobbed by CCP and their minions. My problem being I'm a PvPer and the only space where PvP doesn't lag like hell is either empire or BoB territory because CCP keep those nodes reinforced. They changed it so war decs (AKA empire wars) are too expensive and the system can be exploited to make war decs too much for anyone, so empire is now out of the question. Normal 0.0 is laggy and always crashing and it takes hours to find a real fight then it's time for blob wars (/yawn). Leaving BoB space where I can go to be entertainment for the DEVs at CCP and their puppets, so now I play BF: 2142 for PvP and play EVE as the PVE game it has turned into.
EVE is a great game, just that CCP are corrupt. If you don't PvP you won't have any problems with their corrupt devs though. Everything I just said was my opinion so please try not to be personaly abusive if replying to this post, thankyou
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
But generally I do not care. I can personally not be bothered with doing any kind of hugely effort in a game and then also pay the cash for it. Though what made me quit EVE was when I realised a growing tendency accepting "hardcore player" as a border-line cheater. That is not why I play games, I do not have to be near a possible breach of the EULA to have success in a game. As it became clear even the dev's shared this acceptance I simple quit and moved on.
As far as I know, the T20 incident is the only case in which CCP admits that a dev cheated. Other cheats involved GMs, but the T20 incident was somewhat unique in that he had all the access that a game developer naturally possessed. Actually, nobody knows precisely by what mechanism he spawned the BPOs, but it was beyond that which a GM could accomplish. Officially CCP does not allow devs to cheat, and supposedly their accounts are not supposed to reveal the fact that they are devs. I think claims about other cheating incidents involving devs are unproven. This proven incident involved the dev T20 cheating on behalf of BoB, the most powerful alliance in the game. That combination of facts is what made it so noteworthy. If he had cheated on behalf of a bunch of "carebears" (players who do not engage in PvP battles), nobody would have raised an eyebrow, myself included. But his cheating on behalf of BoB understandably called into question the source of BoB's greatness.
Perhaps CCP will not allow BoB to "take over Eve," but from my observations last week they certainly appeared unstoppable. But how would they reign in BoB without causing many of them to become angered to the point of cancelling their acounts? Although I do think it is possible that the T20 cheating was WAY more substantial than admitted, I do not at all buy this stuff about "CCP and their minions." CCP is a game company in business to earn real money, NOT isk. The integrity of their game really is a top concern, I believe that. What I question is to what degree did this one renegade dev make the game possibly unstable. Again, BoB really is kicking butt and I just find it difficult to believe it is a coincidence. I was okay with getting my butt kicked when there was no cheating, but once I realized that this alliance kicking my butt had received developer assistance well, then I think I'd prefer to walk my dog and play with my kid.
And since GMs can spawn items for players they would have the same abilities.
Wow ... I didn't expect to get flamed. I was just saying thanx for tipping me off. I was browsing MMORPG for a new game to try and I was interested in trying EvE since I really want a new Sci-Fi MMO to play. I didn't mean to piss people off, I just wanted to thank the people responsible for keeping me from wasting my time. I am married with 2 kids (1 yr & 2 yrs) with another kid due in Late June and I have a lot on my plate, so I don't have much time to play. I didn't want to get into something then find out I chose the wrong game(That's already happened to me once.). Fairplay, fun and quality gaming are important to me since I have so many responsibilities. From what I understand about Eve, a dev cheating by sharing resources unfairly with a group of favored players is a pretty big deal and throws the whole balance of the game out of whack. I just didn't want to be part of a game where that happens. And for anyone who says "It happens in every MMO." I say ... Prove it. I've never heard of it happening before. Show me that it's true with some kind of proof and not just because you say its true. Its iresponsible and asinine to just start making that kind of stuff up because you believe it must be happening. I never said I hated Eve. I just said thanx. Jeeze guys, do you just sit on theboards here and wait for someone to attack? Get over it. I'm just a regular guy who said thank you.
Good grief.
PS: I ended up checking out Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar. I know it's not Sci-Fi, but I couldn't find any Sci-Fi games rated over 7.0 that I haven't tried yet. I wish Anarchy Online wasn't so dated and didn't run so crappily on my rig (not sure why that's the case since I have a pretty nice Gaming rig. It runs so choppy!) because it seemed like a really good game. I'm hoping the runors about a Warhammer 40k MMO aren't wrong. I'd love to play in that world.
I'm new to EVE and even I know that this is old news. Just play the game and have fun like I'm doing and don't worry about something that happened so clearly in the past.
Bren
the event he relates happened in the past. the continued cheating however...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I'm pretty sure it happens at least once in every single MMO/MMORPG that has EVER been released.
EVE is not anymore special than WOW, EQ1, EQ2, V:SoH, DAoC and so on...
Wake up and smell the flowers.
proof or STFU.
simple enough eh?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
And it doesnt matter whether the game is pvp or pve. Top end pve guilds take pride in being the first to conquer various endgame content. If one guild gets help from devs, that matters to a lot of other players. The same applies to pvp games.
GM abuse has been around since the first MMO. UO had it's problems, so did WoW and I'm sure most games out there today have those problems.
Yup a guy got caught cheating in BoB. Do I like it? No. Does it mean the entire game is corrupt and BoB is a bunch of cheaters? No. And I'm not in BoB, will never join them or any of their "pets" or even be blue to them.
This current campaign to discredit CCP is, in my opinion, the work of a small vocal group of players who have decided to do whatever it takes to not only bring BoB down, but the game as well as the company.
I was disappointed with what happened. But I'm going to give CCP a chance to clean up the game. It really is a great game and still can improve a lot. The cheating talk is getting old. Lets move on and try to rebuild this community and make it even better instead of trying to destroy it.
I'm pretty sure it happens at least once in every single MMO/MMORPG that has EVER been released.
EVE is not anymore special than WOW, EQ1, EQ2, V:SoH, DAoC and so on...
Wake up and smell the flowers.
proof or STFU.
simple enough eh?
I remember an EQ1 dev putting in a vendor at the bottom of befallen that would exchange coins for a higher level coinage.
SOE went apeshit over it. Screwed up the economy for a bit.
No idea 'bout the others. But I imagine it does happen.
As for EVE, I felt like some guy playing in a D&D campaign with the DM's wife...
"Oh look! She just stumbled over a +2 Vorpal Sword and it is her preferred weapon! A cutlass! And it's PINK!"
*groan*
So I walked. The game wasn't that much fun to me, so I put on my walkin' shoes and left.
LexTaliones,
Ironically I'm going to say that if your time for playing games is limited, then the whole T20 cheating thing may not matter to you. Doing well in Eve requires a HUGE time investment, and if you don't have a lot of time to play this game then you likely won't get to the point where it really matter much (the huge 0.0 warfare). There IS I admit a lot of other things to do in Eve. Unfortunately the game is quite boring in the beginning (the beginning can last for many months).
I maintain it's important for people to know about the cheating issue. If you go ahead and try their free two-week trial yourself, I think at the end of those two weeks you will well understand precisely what I mean when I say that to play Eve well requires a lot of time. You will, I think, also gain an insider understanding of how important mere information is within the game, and thereby understand why devs playing within any player alliance is a very controversial thing even in the absence of cheating. Of course, the game is strangely addictive, so watch out.
it happened a YEAR ago
It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.