New players starting as level 70?

nomadian · May 2007

These older games are a little bit hampered by the fact not many new players are starting anymore, as well as those who have started have a lot to catch up with. Would the idea of new players starting as level 70s but with some sort of tag(say ie above their name or something) really be a bad idea?

Acesquared · May 2007

yes

Kyleran · May 2007

Bad idea? yes, because part of the fun is supposed to be in the journey...and not just the end destination....

Landogarner · May 2007

Though I do like what they did in DAOC. If you have a level 50 char you can start a new char and use the /level20 command and instantly create a level 20 character. Thus avoiding some of the grind associated with starting a new character.

nomadian · May 2007

Bad idea? yes, because part of the fun is supposed to be in the journey...and not just the end destination....

Even when there is noone to group with on the "journey"?. At least at level 70 they will be able to find people to group with and therefore maybe stay.

tylerwick · May 2007

Originally posted by nomadian

Bad idea? yes, because part of the fun is supposed to be in the journey...and not just the end destination....

Even when there is noone to group with on the "journey"?. At least at level 70 they will be able to find people to group with and therefore maybe stay.

What would be the point? your going to play a little while and get bored because you only have select few popular areas to play.

BuzWeaver · May 2007

Sadly there isn't a journey any longer in EQ as its just pretty much a raid fest game. I really miss the old days, I've not played EQ since shortly after the Combine was over taken by raiders. I don't have any issues with how people want to play the game, its just sad to see this 'hurry up and have fun' attitude in MMO's.

Odenathus · May 2007

Can't you do this on test server? /charbuff?

I don't think it's a good idea. Journey or no journey. Starting at level 70, you don't know how to play. You don't know your strengths, weaknesses, spells. You don't know your agro ranges or mobs abilities. You don't have the AA's, gear or in game experience to group at your newly found level.

You are in fact, a threat to anyone you group with.

Wimbie · May 2007

Originally posted by Acesquared

yes

Not everything in the mmo world can be easy. Maybe lvl 2, but thats it.

nomadian · May 2007

Can't you do this on test server? /charbuff?
I don't think it's a good idea. Journey or no journey. Starting at level 70, you don't know how to play. You don't know your strengths, weaknesses, spells. You don't know your agro ranges or mobs abilities. You don't have the AA's, gear or in game experience to group at your newly found level.
You are in fact, a threat to anyone you group with.

True but group with some veterans and they can learn. Actually, if new players had both options of starting a level 1 or a level 70 they could get to grips with some of the game first with the level 1.

Alternatively, a really creative idea is they set all content to level 65-75 and then just make AAs as the thing to obtain. This way, some of the older content can be reenjoyed again. (Though, this would be hampered by problems and a fair bit of developer time. (to change all the mob levels and hitting abilities))

I don't know really having not played for a while but get the impression that levelling up can be a pretty lonesome experience for new players.

Odenathus · May 2007

Have you ever played GuildWars?

I haven't. But I have this friend...
He plays GW. As I understand it, there are only 20 levels. 1-20. From that point forward you are only working on skills. Maybe you should check it out and see if this is really what you want, or what you think you want.

Jumping 70 levels... just circumvents the majority of the game, the majority of the content and most of the experience. True, as the game gears down, the player base is limited, but how can you truely play the game, enjoy the game, if you start at the finish line?

Another aspect of the game - progression. EQ1 is designed to funnel players into the end game. Everything before that is a building, or learning process for the end game. All training aside, if you started AT level 70, you would also be missing keys and flags. While keys and flags aren't as important in the new content as they were in prior expansions, they are still there. You would still have to go back and go through these events - or worse, you'd have to wait until another soft brained SoE excutive insisted on putting in a backflag key (like they did for PoTime).

Odenathus · May 2007

Originally posted by nomadian
True but group with some veterans and they can learn.

Veterans aren't going to want to teach you. They want to play. They want to go into high end zones and earn experience or complete quests. As you pointed out, grinding is erksome, who's going to want to take that much time to teach you - teach you, maps, zones, agro range, pulling, DPS, hot keys, macros, CR's.

Your going to be killing your group. They are going to have to spend way to much time walking you through maps, just to get you to the zone where they want to group. Do you know if you can invis? Can you lev? Do you have a pet? Do you know what gear you can use or need? Do you know what to do when a mob "rages"?

Do you really want to know what veteran EQ players think of this? Tell someone that you just bought your character on eBay. Then go lfg.

nomadian · May 2007

Have you ever played GuildWars?
I haven't. But I have this friend...
He plays GW. As I understand it, there are only 20 levels. 1-20. From that point forward you are only working on skills. Maybe you should check it out and see if this is really what you want, or what you think you want.

Played Guild Wars, but I'm actually a veteran EQer who played the game up to GoD and I'm thinking about new players, I see it as a big problem when a new player joins the game and finds an empty world? How is that appealling? It isn't.

Jumping 70 levels... just circumvents the majority of the game, the majority of the content and most of the experience. True, as the game gears down, the player base is limited, but how can you truely play the game, enjoy the game, if you start at the finish line?

What conception do you have of new players and their journey to 70? It isn't the old EQ anymore, isn't the main area to level to 70 now Serpents expansion? Is that what they will miss?

All training aside, if you started AT level 70, you would also be missing keys and flags

Damn they still got flagging have they? Thought they would have given up the idea at PoP, awful idea as I remember it.

Veterans aren't going to want to teach you. They want to play. They want to go into high end zones and earn experience or complete quests. As you pointed out, grinding is erksome, who's going to want to take that much time to teach you - teach you, maps, zones, agro range, pulling, DPS, hot keys, macros, CR's.

True but this is why I say their level could be 5 levels lower than the max so as having a chance to learn the game, also if they are flagged with an I status people will know they are new. I'm not really sure how complicated a new person would find it, maybe it could be a bit overwhelming.

Do you really want to know what veteran EQ players think of this? Tell someone that you just bought your character on eBay. Then go lfg.

To be honest, after playing WoW you get used to the possibility someone in your group probably doesn't have a clue. I guess with EQ they have the luxury of not having this.

Odenathus · May 2007

Played Guild Wars, but I'm actually a veteran EQer who played the game up to GoD and I'm thinking about new players, I see it as a big problem when a new player joins the game and finds an empty world? How is that appealling? It isn't.

True. And I do sympathize with the lowbie players - I for sure won't be starting a new toon because of it.

Doesn't every thread here point out the derth of players? That the game is basically dead? While it's not, the majority of the player base is high end, not newbs, not lowbies.

To be honest, after playing WoW you get used to the possibility someone in your group probably doesn't have a clue. I guess with EQ they have the luxury of not having this.

Yes? Really? Hm... and in WoW was there really any death penalty? How often did you have to figure out how to recover your corpse? How many 5.5 hour spawns did you have to camp that only had a 1 in 10 drop rate for your quest item (Hadden and the EB earring)?

You see, there is a difference between WoW and EQ1. In WoW if you make a mistake and wipe your group/raid, it only cost you alittle gold to repair. The exp loss is so minimal. As you should recall, in EQ1, a death cost you 10% of your earned exp for your prior level(?) - and you can actually lose your current level. Your corpse drops where you died, with all your gear - you either summon it (at a cost) or go find it. How many times do you think a group/raid would be willing to tolerate such a setback, at level 70+?!

I'm just trying to point out, that in my opinion, even at this late date in the life of EQ1, that I don't think the option of starting new characters at level 70 (specially if the level cap is raised to level 80, in November), is a good idea.

Are there that many new players?
Is the TSS expansion that empty?
Couldn't you just start a level 70 character on test server?

nomadian · May 2007

I know theres a difference between WoW and EQ, I played EQ first and enjoyed it more than WoW. But you are overstating things slightly. Death penalty basically meant bugger all in EQ ever since you can get a good exp rez back(and last time I played shamans and druids could even rez!) If you're referring to raiding, then yeah I'd agree a new player on raiding is the worst thing you want.

Odenathus · May 2007

Cleric rez 96% of your exp restored, no mana
Druid/Shaman rez 0% exp restored, no mana (Omens of War AA Ability)
once per 18 hour - Cleric 100% rez, full exp/mana restored
Veteran award for 4 years Expediant recovery 100% exp/mana restored (once per week)

Yes, 96% rez is good, returns 96% of whatever you lost... but 96% is not the same as 100%. and it adds up.

None raiding group; Valdeholm. Frost giants, fast pulling, hard hitting, 20 minute respawn. There are no wizard portals, druid ports in this zone. You have to run here. After I compete with other players for the camp of my choice (the pit), I then have to wait for you to figure out how to get here. You need invis. Lev would help. A fast horse would help. Are you a tank, puller, DPS, healer? Do you have your spells loaded? Finally you get to the zone. Can you find the camp without training? Do I have to drag you to the camp and get you a rez? Are you going to be contributing to the group or leaching? Are you going to over nuke, get low level or low life agro? How fragile are you? Is the healer going to have to pay special attention to you, despite whatever role your going to take in the group?

I just don't see many exp groups picking up newbs at level 70+ for training. They would have to give up their normal activities and spend X amount of time in some lowbie zone (lowbie in this case means a none exp paying area for a lvl 70+), teaching you how to play. I might do this for someone I know, maybe. I'd be pissed to have to do this for a total stranger and would only do it if my cleric insisted - She says "no way in hell would she do this for a total stranger!".

Again, this is just my opinion
You seem to think it's a good idea!

nomadian · May 2007

Not saying its a good idea especially just trying to be objective about it. I think you could be right on this though, they would need a fair bit of time to get used to the game before hopping straight to the endgame. I do maintain there maybe many solutions but I'm not so sure SoE are overly concerned about new players anymore and maybe more about keeping the players they have as long as they can.

neschria · May 2007

To be honest, I would avoid grouping with anyone I knew was level-buffed. It's hard enough putting together a good PUG with people who have presumably played through 70 levels without bringing newbies into the equation.

Uproar · May 2007

Absolutely unnecessary. If you don't have a couple of months to level up don't play. You can easily chose a class that is soloable up to 70. The gold drops have been hugely increased over what they used to be. So has the availability of decent equipment. You will not be starving or hurting if you can't find full groups all the time. With the addition of HotZones if you concentrate on those (Paludal Caverns around level 14-15 and Hotzones from 20+. You will level at a decent rate.

I'd rather see you buy gold and twink then get a free level 70 toon / buff. Silliness. Neither is needed to succeed.

nomadian · May 2007

If you don't have a couple of months to level up don't play. You can easily chose a class that is soloable up to 70.

Which comes back to why would they want to solo up in an empty world? Part of the appeal is playing with others. Not to mention, that they solo to 70 just leaves the same problem? Are they likely to be able to play in a group having soloed for 70 levels?

DijonCyanide · May 2007

i have been considering returning to EQ via the Anniversary Edition. i wouldn't want to begin with a high level toon though just because i would want that valuable time & experience in learning, relearning, how to play properly. It is the the progression rate achieving to the top level that is probably one of EQ's larger obstacles in recruiting brand new &/or returning players. Let alone shuddering at the thought of what must be a massive amount of possible AA choices now.

SOE deciding a couple of years ago to focus primarily on the grinding raid path might've caused loss of players of the casual playing variety, it was one of my reasons. Then again, since i haven't played for a couple of years SOE might have made EQ more casual friendly. i just dabble in Guild Wars from time to time, & recently tried WoW. If EQ was of similar par to WoW's progression rate i would heavily consider it again. i thought it was interesting while i played WoW thinking to myself that in WoW the quests actually are good & give credible experience yet from what i remember in Everquest the quests never amounted to much & often disappointed, good irony but sad for the gaming. EQ is probably too old of a game now though for SOE to consider much of any type of revamping. Soon before i quit EQ i remember SOE was going to revamp some areas & some of the races/classes in 2 parts, but only got around to the first part.

Maybe SOE will make that Vanguard something worthwhile soon so that will be fun to try. Overall, i think changing the pace of the journey a bit would be good, but not the beginning point.

Unknown · May 2007

Originally posted by Landogarner

Though I do like what they did in DAOC. If you have a level 50 char you can start a new char and use the /level20 command and instantly create a level 20 character. Thus avoiding some of the grind associated with starting a new character.

And DAOC devs also stated not long ago that that was one of the worst decisions they had ever made and wish they could take it back.

So, no - really bad idea.

Maybe give them level 3 and a chance to skip the intro, that is it.

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New players starting as level 70?

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New players starting as level 70?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV