Originally posted by Wildcat84 You always know you've won an argument with Obriak when he starts splitting hairs on a meaningless aspect.
Just interpret that as "you win" and move on.
Lol, how do you win? You've failied to prove how you personally must camp and loot to get items now in the NGE...
To say that the loots system of the NGE is the same as it was Pre CU/NGE is like trying to compare the Earth to the Moon. Sure they are round, and in the same solar system, and circle the same sun (yes I know the moon orbits the earth but it still goes around the sun too). But other than a few very basic similarities they are extremely different. One (the moon) cant even support life (much like the NGE). The other is a very complex ecosystem.
So yes you could camp and loot for items in Pre CU/NGE just like in the NGE, but thats pretty much where the similarities stop. The Pre NGE (especially Pre-CU) loot system encompassed so much more than 'kill-loot-repeat'.
A small example: Say a lone player wants to collect recources for a new weapon. That player sets out and kills how ever many Critter/NPC's that the player needed to to collect these recources. That same player through his/her actions has involved more people. IE the need for an entertainer to heal Battle Fatigue. The need for an armorsmith to repair or even replace the damaged armor. The need for a doc to heal the wounds. A new vehicle maybe from a crafter. And last but not least, a Weaponsmith to actually make the weapon. The new weaopon could now be sold, or given away or even kept. And to top everything off, unless the weapon had an ADK on it, it would eventually decay, be useless, and not 'Uber Lewt" anymore.
Originally posted by Wildcat84 You always know you've won an argument with Obriak when he starts splitting hairs on a meaningless aspect.
Just interpret that as "you win" and move on.
Lol, how do you win? You've failied to prove how you personally must camp and loot to get items now in the NGE...
To say that the loots system of the NGE is the same as it was Pre CU/NGE is like trying to compare the Earth to the Moon. Sure they are round, and in the same solar system, and circle the same sun (yes I know the moon orbits the earth but it still goes around the sun too). But other than a few very basic similarities they are extremely different. One (the moon) cant even support life (much like the NGE). The other is a very complex ecosystem.
So yes you could camp and loot for items in Pre CU/NGE just like in the NGE, but thats pretty much where the similarities stop. The Pre NGE (especially Pre-CU) loot system encompassed so much more than 'kill-loot-repeat'.
A small example: Say a lone player wants to collect recources for a new weapon. That player sets out and kills how ever many Critter/NPC's that the player needed to to collect these recources. That same player through his/her actions has involved more people. IE the need for an entertainer to heal Battle Fatigue. The need for an armorsmith to repair or even replace the damaged armor. The need for a doc to heal the wounds. A new vehicle maybe from a crafter. And last but not least, a Weaponsmith to actually make the weapon. The new weaopon could now be sold, or given away or even kept. And to top everything off, unless the weapon had an ADK on it, it would eventually decay, be useless, and not 'Uber Lewt" anymore.
I'm debating the point that some people don't think loot was involved in the Pre-CU game because they didn't have to go out and get it. That's still true today. I'm not arguing that what you mention didn't exist.
I'm debating the point that some people don't think loot was involved in the Pre-CU game because they didn't have to go out and get it. That's still true today. I'm not arguing that what you mention didn't exist.
True enough. But without actually coming out and saying it, you use the fact that because there is loot in NGE to insinuate that its 'the same', or that its 'just as good'. When in fact its not. Server populations can prove the latter.
Originally posted by Wildcat84 You always know you've won an argument with Obriak when he starts splitting hairs on a meaningless aspect.
Just interpret that as "you win" and move on.
Lol, how do you win? You've failied to prove how you personally must camp and loot to get items now in the NGE...
To say that the loots system of the NGE is the same as it was Pre CU/NGE is like trying to compare the Earth to the Moon. Sure they are round, and in the same solar system, and circle the same sun (yes I know the moon orbits the earth but it still goes around the sun too). But other than a few very basic similarities they are extremely different. One (the moon) cant even support life (much like the NGE). The other is a very complex ecosystem.
So yes you could camp and loot for items in Pre CU/NGE just like in the NGE, but thats pretty much where the similarities stop. The Pre NGE (especially Pre-CU) loot system encompassed so much more than 'kill-loot-repeat'.
A small example: Say a lone player wants to collect recources for a new weapon. That player sets out and kills how ever many Critter/NPC's that the player needed to to collect these recources. That same player through his/her actions has involved more people. IE the need for an entertainer to heal Battle Fatigue. The need for an armorsmith to repair or even replace the damaged armor. The need for a doc to heal the wounds. A new vehicle maybe from a crafter. And last but not least, a Weaponsmith to actually make the weapon. The new weaopon could now be sold, or given away or even kept. And to top everything off, unless the weapon had an ADK on it, it would eventually decay, be useless, and not 'Uber Lewt" anymore.
I'm debating the point that some people don't think loot was involved in the Pre-CU game because they didn't have to go out and get it. That's still true today. I'm not arguing that what you mention didn't exist.
The loot in Pre Cu is far different from those Loot MMO's such as WOW etc etc
Sure you had to loot items to make certain products but in most cases it was more like gathering resources then looting. To make some enhanced weapons you may have needed some krayt scale, animal bones, or Voritor scales or whatever.
To aquire these components all you had to do was collect them.
So if doc meat was in shift as a service I could hunt for the avain meat and collect as much as I wanted to. The more I collected the more income I brought in. It was a means to provide a service.
That really is no different then regulary surveying for resources and setting up harvesters for gathering resources. Was it looting not really it was a job and a means to provide a service.
Crafting was a service, Buffing was a service etc etc. How you wanted to provide a service was up to you.
Service was a means of interdepence which made for SWG being a very social enviroment.
In pre-cu with everyone working together crafters were able to mass produce and make elite equipment for everyone. Everyone was equal. Therefore the game was not about equipment but rather the socialization to keep the galaxy functioning. With equipment readily available to everyone your gaming experience was spending your time doing whatever it was you wanted in the galaxy.
This is a far cry from them loot base games out there right now. Repeating the same thing over and over and over hoping for that .001% drop. Your focus of the gamel was to get that elite weapon etc. that's it. A new weapon came out same thing again. The socialization was selling the crap you didn't want and never seeing the person again. There is no local crafter that provides a great service and would keep going back.
The original game was based on one simple economic phiolosiphy. All paths towards obtaining a item are valid with no restriction. You could reap the rewards of high level loot. Without ever fealing forced to go out, and gather uber loot yourself. A player could easily spend their days killing low level vermin for cred, and crafting resources. Then come the evening equip all the highest level equipment on par with a dungeon raider. The dungeon raider needed people in the community to go out killing vermin. Were nobody out killing vermin armor, buffs, and weapons could not be made. They also need those players to put credits into the economy without which certain services could not function. The philosiphy was just as valid as epic loot collecting. Truth be told it was critical to the community without resource gatherers, and low level mission players in the mix. Most everything in the game would break down. The economy was never based on a loot standard.
Here is a good example I actually knew a player in game who was one of the richest players on my server. We were some of the first players in game that actually dedicated themselves to resource gathering. Personally I did it, because killing vermin leveled my character faster then doing missions. After a month I hardly did it except on a occassional basis. There was money to be made if you could put together a large stack, and it happened to be as you did something else. The real valuable stuff was stuff not along the way however which is where my friend specialized. He would go to places like rori, yavin, and endor to hunt down the best spawns. Sometimes a armorsmith would pay over fifty credits per unit of a resource. That could be upwards of five thousand credits for a twenty second kill. Hitting a lair for a mission you have drawn add three thousand for mission ontop of ten kills, and you earn fifty thousand credits in less then three minutes. To hell with the dantooine mineing outpost this was where the real money could be found. Anyway this guy never actually had to dungeon nor was he built for it, but he probabally had better gear then most dungeon divers. He simply followed the path of doing a dirty job, getting well paid for it, and buying the hard work of others. That is a free economy.
Sure in real life we have people that loot. Some are salvage experts, Some are criminals, and politiicians. We however do not call our economy loot based. The reason is simple it constitutes a very small part of the economy overall. Exactly like what happened in the original galaxies. A loot was simply another valid service. Overall the least profitable one at that for the community as a whole. More money was made from killing vermin on the whole then killing krayt dragons. When you say a economy is based on something the assumption is that the thing is the driveing force of the economy. Like a oil based economy, or a agrarian economy.
Never in galaxies did loot fill the function of the major driveing force behind the economy. Nor was more time spent in its pursuit. The major economic force in galaxies was resource harvesting which well over half the population participated in. Then would come running missions which probabally fourty percent participated in consistently. Then you would have crafter services produceing all the things players needed to succeed maybe accounting for ten percent of the economy. Finally you would have five percent of the population performing services. Be them danceing, healing, buffing, and sliceing. Down around one percent of the population would actually be dedicated to epic loot gathering. Beleive it or not at any given time only about one percent of players were camping that epic dungeon for loot.
Most of players consider the original game a crafter based economy usually, because it was where the economy came together. The resource gatherers were selling to crafters. The crafters were selling to everybody. The majority of the loot was being sold to crafters, or consideration tradeing was takeing place. Crafters also served the role of the largest money sink in the game. Further more they also set standard fair market values. While technically you would call the economy resource based. Crafter based seems to be more popular for the above reasons, The NGE however is a loot based economy since well over half the players engage in obtaining loot. Crafting with no decay should account for a very meek amount of credit exchange. Resource gathering could only suffer from a fantastic lack of demand. Perhaps Danceing received a boost however since those players can no longer actually participate in the economy for self gain.
Obraik you should not make anyone waste their time explaining this to you. You already know the differences between the economies. All you really are doing is trolling. To be very blunt you are embarassing the community you represent. The NGE player base already has a reputation for straw grasping, and excuse makeing. Which only makes them as a whole appear to be deluded. You are not helping them, or your own cause when you convolute these stunts.
The original game was based on one simple economic phiolosiphy. All paths towards obtaining a item are valid with no restriction. You could reap the rewards of high level loot. Without ever fealing forced to go out, and gather uber loot yourself. A player could easily spend their days killing low level vermin for cred, and crafting resources. Then come the evening equip all the highest level equipment on par with a dungeon raider. The dungeon raider needed people in the community to go out killing vermin. Were nobody out killing vermin armor, buffs, and weapons could not be made. They also need those players to put credits into the economy without which certain services could not function. The philosiphy was just as valid as epic loot collecting. Truth be told it was critical to the community without resource gatherers, and low level mission players in the mix. Most everything in the game would break down. The economy was never based on a loot standard. Here is a good example I actually knew a player in game who was one of the richest players on my server. We were some of the first players in game that actually dedicated themselves to resource gathering. Personally I did it, because killing vermin leveled my character faster then doing missions. After a month I hardly did it except on a occassional basis. There was money to be made if you could put together a large stack, and it happened to be as you did something else. The real valuable stuff was stuff not along the way however which is where my friend specialized. He would go to places like rori, yavin, and endor to hunt down the best spawns. Sometimes a armorsmith would pay over fifty credits per unit of a resource. That could be upwards of five thousand credits for a twenty second kill. Hitting a lair for a mission you have drawn add three thousand for mission ontop of ten kills, and you earn fifty thousand credits in less then three minutes. To hell with the dantooine mineing outpost this was where the real money could be found. Anyway this guy never actually had to dungeon nor was he built for it, but he probabally had better gear then most dungeon divers. He simply followed the path of doing a dirty job, getting well paid for it, and buying the hard work of others. That is a free economy. Sure in real life we have people that loot. Some are salvage experts, Some are criminals, and politiicians. We however do not call our economy loot based. The reason is simple it constitutes a very small part of the economy overall. Exactly like what happened in the original galaxies. A loot was simply another valid service. Overall the least profitable one at that for the community as a whole. More money was made from killing vermin on the whole then killing krayt dragons. When you say a economy is based on something the assumption is that the thing is the driveing force of the economy. Like a oil based economy, or a agrarian economy. Never in galaxies did loot fill the function of the major driveing force behind the economy. Nor was more time spent in its pursuit. The major economic force in galaxies was resource harvesting which well over half the population participated in. Then would come running missions which probabally fourty percent participated in consistently. Then you would have crafter services produceing all the things players needed to succeed maybe accounting for ten percent of the economy. Finally you would have five percent of the population performing services. Be them danceing, healing, buffing, and sliceing. Down around one percent of the population would actually be dedicated to epic loot gathering. Beleive it or not at any given time only about one percent of players were camping that epic dungeon for loot. Most of players consider the original game a crafter based economy usually, because it was where the economy came together. The resource gatherers were selling to crafters. The crafters were selling to everybody. The majority of the loot was being sold to crafters, or consideration tradeing was takeing place. Crafters also served the role of the largest money sink in the game. Further more they also set standard fair market values. While technically you would call the economy resource based. Crafter based seems to be more popular for the above reasons, The NGE however is a loot based economy since well over half the players engage in obtaining loot. Crafting with no decay should account for a very meek amount of credit exchange. Resource gathering could only suffer from a fantastic lack of demand. Perhaps Danceing received a boost however since those players can no longer actually participate in the economy for self gain. Obraik you should not make anyone waste their time explaining this to you. You already know the differences between the economies. All you really are doing is trolling. To be very blunt you are embarassing the community you represent. The NGE player base already has a reputation for straw grasping, and excuse makeing. Which only makes them as a whole appear to be deluded. You are not helping them, or your own cause when you convolute these stunts.
Nicely put indeed.
When someone who didn't play MMO's would ask me what SWG was all about, I'd tell them that it was an online world where I played with other SW fans around the world, wearing clothes and armour made by other players, firing weapons made by other players, heal with medicines/cures made by other players in cities made by other players where you could basically do anything you wanted. Most importantly its immersive, addictive and fun.
Now what could I say if someone asked me about the NGE?
This still burns my britches today. They intentionally make an item's components hard to find and gather. They made them rare and requiring a crafter to have completed a series of costly quests to be able to construct the item (RIS Armor). They make it a featured item. They say if you work really hard this armor will be good and rare. Then they demolish that work under a combat upgrade and subsquent NGE. Of both the crafter and the player and inreturn for demolishing that effort and hours of gaming they produce a loot based economy that doesn't even require you to use a crafter at all. They broke the player bond of crafter and player. They admit they did and people still argue that the systems where similar.
I played the NGE. They hand you what you need for the future quests through the current quests and npcs. IE its completely loot based for the pve content.
Of course PVP requires trading, bartering, and some crafting. It is the nature of PvP and differing quality of items.
If you don't engage in serious hardcore pvp in swg you never need a crafter, entertainer or medic.
Your taking the upper escolon of the gaming experience Obriak and quantifying it down the chain of content. Comparing pve gear to pvp gear is totally absurd. How that gear was obtained is completely and totally different.
In SWG pre-cu you could not finish content without having paid a crafter for armor and weapons. You couldn't kill the lair of nunas with the looted items. Sure as you progressed to the equalivant of level 80 content it was about taking that level 80 pve loot and getting pvp gear. As is ALWAYS the case. If you needed experience, replacement items you needed a weaponsmith and an armorsmith to do pve content. In the nge you don't need to interact with a player vendor at all. Sure you will likely buy better looted items. You'll never need the crafter. If you took all the crafters and items out of swg now you could still have functional equipment, finish quests and pvp.
Take the crafters and crafted items out of pre-cu no one could get to level 80.
What I liked about SWG Pre-Cu is that the game was about socialization and adventuring and not about loot. Almost every item in the game was craftable. This created a interdendance amoung proffessions. Also because everything was craftable elite equipment was not difficult to aquire. This then allowed you to focus on the game. Adventuring, exlporing, competing. At the end of your gaming session you had the socialization and adventuring etc as your reward.
Not having a loot based MMO encouraged socialization and interdepedance. You did not have to kill loot repeat, to aquire the best stuff in the game to compete.
Many MMO's out there make you loot constantly to keep you playing the game. Every week newer and better equipment is added to the game. If you want the best stuff to be able to compete u have to keep playing.
I don't know how people find that rewarding. If is so simple minded.
At the end of their gaming session (kill, loot repeat for hrs on end) their attitude is look at me. I have all the best stuff and then go on to make fun of people that do not have elite stuff and refer to them as noobs. What a simple minded mentality.
SWG Pre-CU
-Easy to aquire elite items and compete as everything was craftable.
-Decay on use of items maintained a interdepence and socialization amoung proffessions.
-End of gaming experience - adventuring, socialization, acomplisments.
Loot Based MMO's
-Extremely Difficult to aquire elite items allowing you to compete.
-To maintain socialization (Spaming Ubber Such and such loot for sale. Best prices here) better equipment is continuously added to the loot table.
-End of gaming experience - Look at me I got such and such equipment.
the thing about pre-cu was that you were able to create your own content. crafting/merchant/harvesting/buffing were all available content that too me was inexhaustable, when i got tired of combat i would craft, when i got tired of crafting i would buff, when i got tired of buffing i would pvp, when i got tired of pvp'ing i would sell goodies and hunt for loots, when i got tired of that i would go on raids and run quests/themeparks when i was tired of that i would play JTL. honestly one of the things me and all my friends loved about the game was there was tons of things to do. I do have to mention that i did love shopping for goodies from the vendors especially before they had vendor search it could take you all day shopping around scanning vendors. I loved buying furniture/loots and stuff to decorate my houses, especially my vendor halls, I liked buying the juke boxes and setting them up for my customers so when they came in they could listen to music. lol....
Take the crafters and crafted items out of pre-cu no one could get to level 80.
??? level 80? pre-cu? lost me there tex.
One thing I loved about the 'old' game was DECAY!!!!! I did my stint as the guild Armor smith, shrug, it was okay. Really loved jsut beign a happy go lucky Rifleman seeing if i could snipe a GDK dead. I loved the decay system on both sides of the equation. even if you went out and bought that "uber" epix t-21 you used it only when you had to. Same with armor. I loved the realism if you will of decay by use. you know that even if joe over there has the greatest pike ever seen on the server, you knew he would not be out using it to grind banthas. if it hit 0 it was dead and sooner or later it would get to zero, no matter if he repaired it or not.
I would submit that (to me) ADK were the single greatest destroyer of that game that i really enjoyed.
p.s. Obraik i must disagree with your even trying to compare nge looting system to the pre-cu one, apples and potatoes sir. not even in the same ball park of consideration.
There where always "level's" in swg. They where soft. They determined the con of the target. I meant the equilivant of level 80 or level 60 or whatever they set as the level cap.
Actually, I'd say Pre-CU was somewhat loot based as well, but rather it was the components that you looted. You then took those components to the specific crafter who used them to make the uber item. You might not of had to do any killing-loot-repeat to get that uber weapon, but someone probably did to get the component to make it. There were also the mind DoT weapons that people spent much time trying to loot.
Obraik, while there were a number of folks who had to have the NS DoT lances and while there were some parts or schematics that needed to be looted to complete a number of the craftable items, it was NOT the same thing as the loot-based system we have been relegated to, and you know it.
You didn't have to get and do those things to become competitive or even have fun. Now these things are a prerequisite to being able to become competetive and an obstacle you have to overcome to get to where you can have fun again. You should know better, man. You're a vet.
I didn't say it was the same as it is now, I said it was somewhat
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today.
Yet the game was also entirely manageable without the Krayt weapons. I never really had Krayt weapons, never needed those components. Only time I ever really used Spider Venoms were on request. I got by and was still very dangerous and devestating without them. (As a matter of fact, the big problem people had playing CM was thinking that you needed the 1500 mind tick poison, when in reality, there was little difference between that and a 500 tick. bottom line was poison was used to setup a kill, but that's another story lol.)
Going through the NGE with entirely player crafted items would not get you far because a) the amount of crafters left is low, even now, b, the people gathering resources is still low though not as bad as crafters, and c loot items are still better, so there is little market for player items (hence why we have condition a.)
With most weapons and armor, the strong stuff came from everyday materials. You just needed a good WS or AS.
Actually, I'd say Pre-CU was somewhat loot based as well, but rather it was the components that you looted. You then took those components to the specific crafter who used them to make the uber item. You might not of had to do any killing-loot-repeat to get that uber weapon, but someone probably did to get the component to make it. There were also the mind DoT weapons that people spent much time trying to loot.
Obraik, while there were a number of folks who had to have the NS DoT lances and while there were some parts or schematics that needed to be looted to complete a number of the craftable items, it was NOT the same thing as the loot-based system we have been relegated to, and you know it.
You didn't have to get and do those things to become competitive or even have fun. Now these things are a prerequisite to being able to become competetive and an obstacle you have to overcome to get to where you can have fun again. You should know better, man. You're a vet.
I didn't say it was the same as it is now, I said it was somewhat
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today.
Yet the game was also entirely manageable without the Krayt weapons. I never really had Krayt weapons, never needed those components. Only time I ever really used Spider Venoms were on request. I got by and was still very dangerous and devestating without them. (As a matter of fact, the big problem people had playing CM was thinking that you needed the 1500 mind tick poison, when in reality, there was little difference between that and a 500 tick. bottom line was poison was used to setup a kill, but that's another story lol.)
Going through the NGE with entirely player crafted items would not get you far because a) the amount of crafters left is low, even now, b, the people gathering resources is still low though not as bad as crafters, and c loot items are still better, so there is little market for player items (hence why we have condition a.)
With most weapons and armor, the strong stuff came from everyday materials. You just needed a good WS or AS.
One additional point, without decay, at one point the need for new crafted items begin to drop, as I can keep all my weapons fine and dandy and never need repair kits or whole new weapons. Decay system was something that was a positive for crafters, making playing them a little more worthwhile, im my opinion.
This still burns my britches today. They intentionally make an item's components hard to find and gather. They made them rare and requiring a crafter to have completed a series of costly quests to be able to construct the item (RIS Armor). They make it a featured item. They say if you work really hard this armor will be good and rare. Then they demolish that work under a combat upgrade and subsquent NGE. Of both the crafter and the player and inreturn for demolishing that effort and hours of gaming they produce a loot based economy that doesn't even require you to use a crafter at all. They broke the player bond of crafter and player. They admit they did and people still argue that the systems where similar. I played the NGE. They hand you what you need for the future quests through the current quests and npcs. IE its completely loot based for the pve content. Of course PVP requires trading, bartering, and some crafting. It is the nature of PvP and differing quality of items. If you don't engage in serious hardcore pvp in swg you never need a crafter, entertainer or medic. Your taking the upper escolon of the gaming experience Obriak and quantifying it down the chain of content. Comparing pve gear to pvp gear is totally absurd. How that gear was obtained is completely and totally different. In SWG pre-cu you could not finish content without having paid a crafter for armor and weapons. You couldn't kill the lair of nunas with the looted items. Sure as you progressed to the equalivant of level 80 content it was about taking that level 80 pve loot and getting pvp gear. As is ALWAYS the case. If you needed experience, replacement items you needed a weaponsmith and an armorsmith to do pve content. In the nge you don't need to interact with a player vendor at all. Sure you will likely buy better looted items. You'll never need the crafter. If you took all the crafters and items out of swg now you could still have functional equipment, finish quests and pvp. Take the crafters and crafted items out of pre-cu no one could get to level 80.
The levels part is for a different day, suffice to say, agree to disagree about the "levels" in Pre-CU.
However, I think we need to remember, at least when the NGE and CU was first the rage on these forums, almost everyone was arguing for it in a PvP-centric context. They whined about the "imbalance" of professions against each other. Obraik's example about how the two economic systems were similar is another case in point, from the PvP perspectiev, things might be similar, you just have less choices as far as your class.
However, most people did not PvP. Those who made money in the game and made the game go round were rarely PvP freaks. I was one who engaged in a lot of PvP, but then took a big break, doing mostly RP and diplomacy, then resource gathering. (Made an excellent RP line of the brave Imperial soldier who, retired from the front lines, waged economic warfare against the Rebellion.)
This still burns my britches today. They intentionally make an item's components hard to find and gather. They made them rare and requiring a crafter to have completed a series of costly quests to be able to construct the item (RIS Armor). They make it a featured item. They say if you work really hard this armor will be good and rare.
To be fair, RIS and Mandaloren (sp) armor were insane, the balance was its rarity and complication, but that STILL did not exclude it from the varying stats (Crafting, items used, experimentation ETC..) or Decay.
To me, knowing i broke some guys RIS chest plate was one of the more EPIC things I have ever seen in an MMO. Talk about risk and reward
Dirty rebel.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I think it was this switch that ultimatly turned me away from SWG. I was a correspondent for a very long time putting up with all the lies etc but what did it was after all these new and apparently exciting changes, the game turned boring. Its as simple as that.
Back In The Day
Before i used to go hunting every single bloody day. Loved it more than anything in game i've ever done. I was good at it, set my own challenges and walked my own path. I'd get money from missions if i took them but i mostly relied on my hunting revenues from getting hide/meat/bone. It was this choice that i just loved. I could do my own thing and go far.
There were clear and diverse roads to walk and you could pick the one that interests you most.
Post End Of The World
So the NGE hit, and everything changed. I was forced to do what i dont really want to do (slaughter npcs for loot chance drops). I dont like doing that all the time and relying on it. I prefer just to get on with my own thing. The opportunities to enjoy the game and be rewarded for playing went down from so many to 1.
As you highlighted (the original poster) the options open to you have been reduced incredibly. I dont care what anyone says, its all about gaming experience and aiming for that end zone. It sickens me that every game out there has it drilled in that in order to be rewarded for being good means you have to spend 1000s of hours down in one place farming. Raid or whatever it seams in order to get the best things you have to like just one type of gamestyle. Its all very elitest.
Im willing to bet if the opportunity was there most of us would much prefere to spend the same amount of time or effort just doing the things they love doing in game?
Whats wrong with givin gamers choice? To get nice things, and essentially be rewarded for reaching the end zone, being good at what you play and putting the hours in or whatever you should be able to go down any one of these avenues:
Buy the stuff
Craft the stuff
This allows you to choose any revenue route you like. Just grind missions, dance in the cantina, sell loot items, sell products as a crafter or merchant, hunt, be a guide or simply help someone out doing tasks for them. And obviously any combination of these. Moving good equipment and items over to money based aquisition means you dont limit the routes you can get these. The players get there in their own way doing the things they like best.
Its probably (along with housing and open worlds) one of the only things SOE got right with SWG. Im sure everyone has had this fantasy one night where you suddenly get all this money and can make the game of your dreams. I swear if players could, they would make a game that makes so sense.
You could do your own thing. Whos to say that you didnt put tonnes of effort into your playstyle? Whos to say you shouldnt be reward because you are brilliant at it? You were doing your own thing, good at it and should have the same right as anyone else to be rewarded for your efforts.
We had that before with Ultima Online and Everquest back in the day.
UO went with a random loot type system depending on what you where fighting/killing. Your not going to get something really good off an Orc, take out a Dragon and there's a chance at some good loot. I should bring up too unlike SWG with it's really random loot system (IE kill an NPC of some type and you net anywhere from 100 to 1000 credits) UO had a set amount of Gold and other 'items' on the Mob. An Orc would give you 50 or so Gold, an Orc Helm, maybe an Apple or Ale. Killing a Dragon gave you more gold (500 to 800) some Gems, a few Spell Scrolls, unlike SWG's really random loot system UO's allowed better Risk vs Reward. Kill something high end you get more, kill an Orc or something anyone can kill you got less...
The other thing about UO's 'magic items' was they where really kinda bland. Finding a Broadsword of Power was a nice find, but for the most part the 'Power' would mean +6 to damage. Better still with UO's 'decay' of your body when you died, you had a good chance of losing an item like that... So you could (and sometimes did) lose everything on your body when you died. Players did still go and hunt, but mostly for Gold. Good magic items came from Treasure Maps/Chests, or Message's in a Bottle.
Everquest gave the player almost the samething only it worked more like a game of AD&D. If you and your group go down and kill the big bad Dragon there was a chance that you would walk away with some really 'killer' magic item. Dare I say UO felt like it tried to be more of the Sims in the Middle Ages with some Fantasy stuff in it. Everquest tried more to be like AD&D/LoTR.
Really what it boils down too is you need high level loot in the game to give the Players something to shoot for. The UO system was boring for most and it really did take a few years for EA to put a 'good' loot system in place with Age of Shadows and UO's semi-raid system before that. Having everything random just makes going out and killing stuff a boring grind.
Obraik, first you got 450k people that doesnt agree with you, and yes nge is no good compared to Pre-cu.
Unfounded numbers. Post your proof before you provide this statistic.
Anyways, Pre-CU had loot in it. However, for the most part, this game was based on crafting rather that loot. And, majority of the "good" loot that you recieved was used in the crafting process. The flaw in the NGE mechanics, when it comes to crafting, is that there is no more decay. If decay was re-introduced, this could actually help to improve the crafting community in the long-run. But, I also view that the bio-link items is similar to soul-bound for WoW... it basically means that you can't give hand-me-downs to others. This can increase the sales for crafters, as new players will have to purchase new equipment rather than receiving used hand-me-downs.
However, I still believe that Pre-CU had loot, albeit less prominent than NGE's loot system.
Obraik, first you got 450k people that doesnt agree with you, and yes nge is no good compared to Pre-cu.
Unfounded numbers. Post your proof before you provide this statistic.
Anyways, Pre-CU had loot in it. However, for the most part, this game was based on crafting rather that loot. And, majority of the "good" loot that you recieved was used in the crafting process. The flaw in the NGE mechanics, when it comes to crafting, is that there is no more decay. If decay was re-introduced, this could actually help to improve the crafting community in the long-run. But, I also view that the bio-link items is similar to soul-bound for WoW... it basically means that you can't give hand-me-downs to others. This can increase the sales for crafters, as new players will have to purchase new equipment rather than receiving used hand-me-downs.
However, I still believe that Pre-CU had loot, albeit less prominent than NGE's loot system.
I never liked the idea of Soul Bound etc. If u aquired the item it is yours. Why should anybody put restrictions on what you can do with YOUR items.
I absolutely hate soul bound/bio link.
SWG had it right the first time.
The population I can't give numbers though but I can tell you there were people EVERYWHERE. The hosiptals, cantinas, Theed, Coronet Massive (Where it should be busiest as it was the most central location, Everywhere. Now you only see the PVP junkies hanging around those areas and lucky if u see anybody else where.
Comments
To say that the loots system of the NGE is the same as it was Pre CU/NGE is like trying to compare the Earth to the Moon. Sure they are round, and in the same solar system, and circle the same sun (yes I know the moon orbits the earth but it still goes around the sun too). But other than a few very basic similarities they are extremely different. One (the moon) cant even support life (much like the NGE). The other is a very complex ecosystem.
So yes you could camp and loot for items in Pre CU/NGE just like in the NGE, but thats pretty much where the similarities stop. The Pre NGE (especially Pre-CU) loot system encompassed so much more than 'kill-loot-repeat'.
A small example: Say a lone player wants to collect recources for a new weapon. That player sets out and kills how ever many Critter/NPC's that the player needed to to collect these recources. That same player through his/her actions has involved more people. IE the need for an entertainer to heal Battle Fatigue. The need for an armorsmith to repair or even replace the damaged armor. The need for a doc to heal the wounds. A new vehicle maybe from a crafter. And last but not least, a Weaponsmith to actually make the weapon. The new weaopon could now be sold, or given away or even kept. And to top everything off, unless the weapon had an ADK on it, it would eventually decay, be useless, and not 'Uber Lewt" anymore.
NGE= Kill-Loot-Repeat...Got Uber Loot! Yaaaaay! ...Uh...Now what?......
To say that the loots system of the NGE is the same as it was Pre CU/NGE is like trying to compare the Earth to the Moon. Sure they are round, and in the same solar system, and circle the same sun (yes I know the moon orbits the earth but it still goes around the sun too). But other than a few very basic similarities they are extremely different. One (the moon) cant even support life (much like the NGE). The other is a very complex ecosystem.
So yes you could camp and loot for items in Pre CU/NGE just like in the NGE, but thats pretty much where the similarities stop. The Pre NGE (especially Pre-CU) loot system encompassed so much more than 'kill-loot-repeat'.
A small example: Say a lone player wants to collect recources for a new weapon. That player sets out and kills how ever many Critter/NPC's that the player needed to to collect these recources. That same player through his/her actions has involved more people. IE the need for an entertainer to heal Battle Fatigue. The need for an armorsmith to repair or even replace the damaged armor. The need for a doc to heal the wounds. A new vehicle maybe from a crafter. And last but not least, a Weaponsmith to actually make the weapon. The new weaopon could now be sold, or given away or even kept. And to top everything off, unless the weapon had an ADK on it, it would eventually decay, be useless, and not 'Uber Lewt" anymore.
NGE= Kill-Loot-Repeat...Got Uber Loot! Yaaaaay! ...Uh...Now what?......
I'm debating the point that some people don't think loot was involved in the Pre-CU game because they didn't have to go out and get it. That's still true today. I'm not arguing that what you mention didn't exist.
I'm debating the point that some people don't think loot was involved in the Pre-CU game because they didn't have to go out and get it. That's still true today. I'm not arguing that what you mention didn't exist.
True enough. But without actually coming out and saying it, you use the fact that because there is loot in NGE to insinuate that its 'the same', or that its 'just as good'. When in fact its not. Server populations can prove the latter.
To say that the loots system of the NGE is the same as it was Pre CU/NGE is like trying to compare the Earth to the Moon. Sure they are round, and in the same solar system, and circle the same sun (yes I know the moon orbits the earth but it still goes around the sun too). But other than a few very basic similarities they are extremely different. One (the moon) cant even support life (much like the NGE). The other is a very complex ecosystem.
So yes you could camp and loot for items in Pre CU/NGE just like in the NGE, but thats pretty much where the similarities stop. The Pre NGE (especially Pre-CU) loot system encompassed so much more than 'kill-loot-repeat'.
A small example: Say a lone player wants to collect recources for a new weapon. That player sets out and kills how ever many Critter/NPC's that the player needed to to collect these recources. That same player through his/her actions has involved more people. IE the need for an entertainer to heal Battle Fatigue. The need for an armorsmith to repair or even replace the damaged armor. The need for a doc to heal the wounds. A new vehicle maybe from a crafter. And last but not least, a Weaponsmith to actually make the weapon. The new weaopon could now be sold, or given away or even kept. And to top everything off, unless the weapon had an ADK on it, it would eventually decay, be useless, and not 'Uber Lewt" anymore.
NGE= Kill-Loot-Repeat...Got Uber Loot! Yaaaaay! ...Uh...Now what?......
I'm debating the point that some people don't think loot was involved in the Pre-CU game because they didn't have to go out and get it. That's still true today. I'm not arguing that what you mention didn't exist.
The loot in Pre Cu is far different from those Loot MMO's such as WOW etc etc
Sure you had to loot items to make certain products but in most cases it was more like gathering resources then looting. To make some enhanced weapons you may have needed some krayt scale, animal bones, or Voritor scales or whatever.
To aquire these components all you had to do was collect them.
So if doc meat was in shift as a service I could hunt for the avain meat and collect as much as I wanted to. The more I collected the more income I brought in. It was a means to provide a service.
That really is no different then regulary surveying for resources and setting up harvesters for gathering resources. Was it looting not really it was a job and a means to provide a service.
Crafting was a service, Buffing was a service etc etc. How you wanted to provide a service was up to you.
Service was a means of interdepence which made for SWG being a very social enviroment.
In pre-cu with everyone working together crafters were able to mass produce and make elite equipment for everyone. Everyone was equal. Therefore the game was not about equipment but rather the socialization to keep the galaxy functioning. With equipment readily available to everyone your gaming experience was spending your time doing whatever it was you wanted in the galaxy.
This is a far cry from them loot base games out there right now. Repeating the same thing over and over and over hoping for that .001% drop. Your focus of the gamel was to get that elite weapon etc. that's it. A new weapon came out same thing again. The socialization was selling the crap you didn't want and never seeing the person again. There is no local crafter that provides a great service and would keep going back.
The original game was based on one simple economic phiolosiphy. All paths towards obtaining a item are valid with no restriction. You could reap the rewards of high level loot. Without ever fealing forced to go out, and gather uber loot yourself. A player could easily spend their days killing low level vermin for cred, and crafting resources. Then come the evening equip all the highest level equipment on par with a dungeon raider. The dungeon raider needed people in the community to go out killing vermin. Were nobody out killing vermin armor, buffs, and weapons could not be made. They also need those players to put credits into the economy without which certain services could not function. The philosiphy was just as valid as epic loot collecting. Truth be told it was critical to the community without resource gatherers, and low level mission players in the mix. Most everything in the game would break down. The economy was never based on a loot standard.
Here is a good example I actually knew a player in game who was one of the richest players on my server. We were some of the first players in game that actually dedicated themselves to resource gathering. Personally I did it, because killing vermin leveled my character faster then doing missions. After a month I hardly did it except on a occassional basis. There was money to be made if you could put together a large stack, and it happened to be as you did something else. The real valuable stuff was stuff not along the way however which is where my friend specialized. He would go to places like rori, yavin, and endor to hunt down the best spawns. Sometimes a armorsmith would pay over fifty credits per unit of a resource. That could be upwards of five thousand credits for a twenty second kill. Hitting a lair for a mission you have drawn add three thousand for mission ontop of ten kills, and you earn fifty thousand credits in less then three minutes. To hell with the dantooine mineing outpost this was where the real money could be found. Anyway this guy never actually had to dungeon nor was he built for it, but he probabally had better gear then most dungeon divers. He simply followed the path of doing a dirty job, getting well paid for it, and buying the hard work of others. That is a free economy.
Sure in real life we have people that loot. Some are salvage experts, Some are criminals, and politiicians. We however do not call our economy loot based. The reason is simple it constitutes a very small part of the economy overall. Exactly like what happened in the original galaxies. A loot was simply another valid service. Overall the least profitable one at that for the community as a whole. More money was made from killing vermin on the whole then killing krayt dragons. When you say a economy is based on something the assumption is that the thing is the driveing force of the economy. Like a oil based economy, or a agrarian economy.
Never in galaxies did loot fill the function of the major driveing force behind the economy. Nor was more time spent in its pursuit. The major economic force in galaxies was resource harvesting which well over half the population participated in. Then would come running missions which probabally fourty percent participated in consistently. Then you would have crafter services produceing all the things players needed to succeed maybe accounting for ten percent of the economy. Finally you would have five percent of the population performing services. Be them danceing, healing, buffing, and sliceing. Down around one percent of the population would actually be dedicated to epic loot gathering. Beleive it or not at any given time only about one percent of players were camping that epic dungeon for loot.
Most of players consider the original game a crafter based economy usually, because it was where the economy came together. The resource gatherers were selling to crafters. The crafters were selling to everybody. The majority of the loot was being sold to crafters, or consideration tradeing was takeing place. Crafters also served the role of the largest money sink in the game. Further more they also set standard fair market values. While technically you would call the economy resource based. Crafter based seems to be more popular for the above reasons, The NGE however is a loot based economy since well over half the players engage in obtaining loot. Crafting with no decay should account for a very meek amount of credit exchange. Resource gathering could only suffer from a fantastic lack of demand. Perhaps Danceing received a boost however since those players can no longer actually participate in the economy for self gain.
Obraik you should not make anyone waste their time explaining this to you. You already know the differences between the economies. All you really are doing is trolling. To be very blunt you are embarassing the community you represent. The NGE player base already has a reputation for straw grasping, and excuse makeing. Which only makes them as a whole appear to be deluded. You are not helping them, or your own cause when you convolute these stunts.
Nicely put indeed.
When someone who didn't play MMO's would ask me what SWG was all about, I'd tell them that it was an online world where I played with other SW fans around the world, wearing clothes and armour made by other players, firing weapons made by other players, heal with medicines/cures made by other players in cities made by other players where you could basically do anything you wanted. Most importantly its immersive, addictive and fun.
Now what could I say if someone asked me about the NGE?
This still burns my britches today. They intentionally make an item's components hard to find and gather. They made them rare and requiring a crafter to have completed a series of costly quests to be able to construct the item (RIS Armor). They make it a featured item. They say if you work really hard this armor will be good and rare. Then they demolish that work under a combat upgrade and subsquent NGE. Of both the crafter and the player and inreturn for demolishing that effort and hours of gaming they produce a loot based economy that doesn't even require you to use a crafter at all. They broke the player bond of crafter and player. They admit they did and people still argue that the systems where similar.
I played the NGE. They hand you what you need for the future quests through the current quests and npcs. IE its completely loot based for the pve content.
Of course PVP requires trading, bartering, and some crafting. It is the nature of PvP and differing quality of items.
If you don't engage in serious hardcore pvp in swg you never need a crafter, entertainer or medic.
Your taking the upper escolon of the gaming experience Obriak and quantifying it down the chain of content. Comparing pve gear to pvp gear is totally absurd. How that gear was obtained is completely and totally different.
In SWG pre-cu you could not finish content without having paid a crafter for armor and weapons. You couldn't kill the lair of nunas with the looted items. Sure as you progressed to the equalivant of level 80 content it was about taking that level 80 pve loot and getting pvp gear. As is ALWAYS the case. If you needed experience, replacement items you needed a weaponsmith and an armorsmith to do pve content. In the nge you don't need to interact with a player vendor at all. Sure you will likely buy better looted items. You'll never need the crafter. If you took all the crafters and items out of swg now you could still have functional equipment, finish quests and pvp.
Take the crafters and crafted items out of pre-cu no one could get to level 80.
the thing about pre-cu was that you were able to create your own content. crafting/merchant/harvesting/buffing were all available content that too me was inexhaustable, when i got tired of combat i would craft, when i got tired of crafting i would buff, when i got tired of buffing i would pvp, when i got tired of pvp'ing i would sell goodies and hunt for loots, when i got tired of that i would go on raids and run quests/themeparks when i was tired of that i would play JTL. honestly one of the things me and all my friends loved about the game was there was tons of things to do. I do have to mention that i did love shopping for goodies from the vendors especially before they had vendor search it could take you all day shopping around scanning vendors. I loved buying furniture/loots and stuff to decorate my houses, especially my vendor halls, I liked buying the juke boxes and setting them up for my customers so when they came in they could listen to music. lol....
Soejckdswg
??? level 80? pre-cu? lost me there tex.
One thing I loved about the 'old' game was DECAY!!!!! I did my stint as the guild Armor smith, shrug, it was okay. Really loved jsut beign a happy go lucky Rifleman seeing if i could snipe a GDK dead. I loved the decay system on both sides of the equation. even if you went out and bought that "uber" epix t-21 you used it only when you had to. Same with armor. I loved the realism if you will of decay by use. you know that even if joe over there has the greatest pike ever seen on the server, you knew he would not be out using it to grind banthas. if it hit 0 it was dead and sooner or later it would get to zero, no matter if he repaired it or not.
I would submit that (to me) ADK were the single greatest destroyer of that game that i really enjoyed.
p.s. Obraik i must disagree with your even trying to compare nge looting system to the pre-cu one, apples and potatoes sir. not even in the same ball park of consideration.
There where always "level's" in swg. They where soft. They determined the con of the target. I meant the equilivant of level 80 or level 60 or whatever they set as the level cap.
You didn't have to get and do those things to become competitive or even have fun. Now these things are a prerequisite to being able to become competetive and an obstacle you have to overcome to get to where you can have fun again. You should know better, man. You're a vet.
I didn't say it was the same as it is now, I said it was somewhat
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today.
Yet the game was also entirely manageable without the Krayt weapons. I never really had Krayt weapons, never needed those components. Only time I ever really used Spider Venoms were on request. I got by and was still very dangerous and devestating without them. (As a matter of fact, the big problem people had playing CM was thinking that you needed the 1500 mind tick poison, when in reality, there was little difference between that and a 500 tick. bottom line was poison was used to setup a kill, but that's another story lol.)
Going through the NGE with entirely player crafted items would not get you far because a) the amount of crafters left is low, even now, b, the people gathering resources is still low though not as bad as crafters, and c loot items are still better, so there is little market for player items (hence why we have condition a.)
With most weapons and armor, the strong stuff came from everyday materials. You just needed a good WS or AS.
You didn't have to get and do those things to become competitive or even have fun. Now these things are a prerequisite to being able to become competetive and an obstacle you have to overcome to get to where you can have fun again. You should know better, man. You're a vet.
I didn't say it was the same as it is now, I said it was somewhat
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today.
Yet the game was also entirely manageable without the Krayt weapons. I never really had Krayt weapons, never needed those components. Only time I ever really used Spider Venoms were on request. I got by and was still very dangerous and devestating without them. (As a matter of fact, the big problem people had playing CM was thinking that you needed the 1500 mind tick poison, when in reality, there was little difference between that and a 500 tick. bottom line was poison was used to setup a kill, but that's another story lol.)
Going through the NGE with entirely player crafted items would not get you far because a) the amount of crafters left is low, even now, b, the people gathering resources is still low though not as bad as crafters, and c loot items are still better, so there is little market for player items (hence why we have condition a.)
With most weapons and armor, the strong stuff came from everyday materials. You just needed a good WS or AS.
One additional point, without decay, at one point the need for new crafted items begin to drop, as I can keep all my weapons fine and dandy and never need repair kits or whole new weapons. Decay system was something that was a positive for crafters, making playing them a little more worthwhile, im my opinion.
The levels part is for a different day, suffice to say, agree to disagree about the "levels" in Pre-CU.
However, I think we need to remember, at least when the NGE and CU was first the rage on these forums, almost everyone was arguing for it in a PvP-centric context. They whined about the "imbalance" of professions against each other. Obraik's example about how the two economic systems were similar is another case in point, from the PvP perspectiev, things might be similar, you just have less choices as far as your class.
However, most people did not PvP. Those who made money in the game and made the game go round were rarely PvP freaks. I was one who engaged in a lot of PvP, but then took a big break, doing mostly RP and diplomacy, then resource gathering. (Made an excellent RP line of the brave Imperial soldier who, retired from the front lines, waged economic warfare against the Rebellion.)
To be fair, RIS and Mandaloren (sp) armor were insane, the balance was its rarity and complication, but that STILL did not exclude it from the varying stats (Crafting, items used, experimentation ETC..) or Decay.
Dirty rebel.To me, knowing i broke some guys RIS chest plate was one of the more EPIC things I have ever seen in an MMO. Talk about risk and reward
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How are you?" -Me
I think it was this switch that ultimatly turned me away from SWG. I was a correspondent for a very long time putting up with all the lies etc but what did it was after all these new and apparently exciting changes, the game turned boring. Its as simple as that.
Back In The Day
Before i used to go hunting every single bloody day. Loved it more than anything in game i've ever done. I was good at it, set my own challenges and walked my own path. I'd get money from missions if i took them but i mostly relied on my hunting revenues from getting hide/meat/bone. It was this choice that i just loved. I could do my own thing and go far.
There were clear and diverse roads to walk and you could pick the one that interests you most.
Post End Of The World
So the NGE hit, and everything changed. I was forced to do what i dont really want to do (slaughter npcs for loot chance drops). I dont like doing that all the time and relying on it. I prefer just to get on with my own thing. The opportunities to enjoy the game and be rewarded for playing went down from so many to 1.
As you highlighted (the original poster) the options open to you have been reduced incredibly. I dont care what anyone says, its all about gaming experience and aiming for that end zone. It sickens me that every game out there has it drilled in that in order to be rewarded for being good means you have to spend 1000s of hours down in one place farming. Raid or whatever it seams in order to get the best things you have to like just one type of gamestyle. Its all very elitest.
Im willing to bet if the opportunity was there most of us would much prefere to spend the same amount of time or effort just doing the things they love doing in game?
Whats wrong with givin gamers choice? To get nice things, and essentially be rewarded for reaching the end zone, being good at what you play and putting the hours in or whatever you should be able to go down any one of these avenues:
This allows you to choose any revenue route you like. Just grind missions, dance in the cantina, sell loot items, sell products as a crafter or merchant, hunt, be a guide or simply help someone out doing tasks for them. And obviously any combination of these. Moving good equipment and items over to money based aquisition means you dont limit the routes you can get these. The players get there in their own way doing the things they like best.
Its probably (along with housing and open worlds) one of the only things SOE got right with SWG. Im sure everyone has had this fantasy one night where you suddenly get all this money and can make the game of your dreams. I swear if players could, they would make a game that makes so sense.
Not to mention the 40 fusion harvestors i had setup using lot trades with other people and then sold power in bulk
Hell yes hehe.
Exactly what i mean.
You could do your own thing. Whos to say that you didnt put tonnes of effort into your playstyle? Whos to say you shouldnt be reward because you are brilliant at it? You were doing your own thing, good at it and should have the same right as anyone else to be rewarded for your efforts.
UO went with a random loot type system depending on what you where fighting/killing. Your not going to get something really good off an Orc, take out a Dragon and there's a chance at some good loot. I should bring up too unlike SWG with it's really random loot system (IE kill an NPC of some type and you net anywhere from 100 to 1000 credits) UO had a set amount of Gold and other 'items' on the Mob. An Orc would give you 50 or so Gold, an Orc Helm, maybe an Apple or Ale. Killing a Dragon gave you more gold (500 to 800) some Gems, a few Spell Scrolls, unlike SWG's really random loot system UO's allowed better Risk vs Reward. Kill something high end you get more, kill an Orc or something anyone can kill you got less...
The other thing about UO's 'magic items' was they where really kinda bland. Finding a Broadsword of Power was a nice find, but for the most part the 'Power' would mean +6 to damage. Better still with UO's 'decay' of your body when you died, you had a good chance of losing an item like that... So you could (and sometimes did) lose everything on your body when you died. Players did still go and hunt, but mostly for Gold. Good magic items came from Treasure Maps/Chests, or Message's in a Bottle.
Everquest gave the player almost the samething only it worked more like a game of AD&D. If you and your group go down and kill the big bad Dragon there was a chance that you would walk away with some really 'killer' magic item. Dare I say UO felt like it tried to be more of the Sims in the Middle Ages with some Fantasy stuff in it. Everquest tried more to be like AD&D/LoTR.
Really what it boils down too is you need high level loot in the game to give the Players something to shoot for. The UO system was boring for most and it really did take a few years for EA to put a 'good' loot system in place with Age of Shadows and UO's semi-raid system before that. Having everything random just makes going out and killing stuff a boring grind.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
Anyways, Pre-CU had loot in it. However, for the most part, this game was based on crafting rather that loot. And, majority of the "good" loot that you recieved was used in the crafting process. The flaw in the NGE mechanics, when it comes to crafting, is that there is no more decay. If decay was re-introduced, this could actually help to improve the crafting community in the long-run. But, I also view that the bio-link items is similar to soul-bound for WoW... it basically means that you can't give hand-me-downs to others. This can increase the sales for crafters, as new players will have to purchase new equipment rather than receiving used hand-me-downs.
However, I still believe that Pre-CU had loot, albeit less prominent than NGE's loot system.
Unfounded numbers. Post your proof before you provide this statistic.Anyways, Pre-CU had loot in it. However, for the most part, this game was based on crafting rather that loot. And, majority of the "good" loot that you recieved was used in the crafting process. The flaw in the NGE mechanics, when it comes to crafting, is that there is no more decay. If decay was re-introduced, this could actually help to improve the crafting community in the long-run. But, I also view that the bio-link items is similar to soul-bound for WoW... it basically means that you can't give hand-me-downs to others. This can increase the sales for crafters, as new players will have to purchase new equipment rather than receiving used hand-me-downs.
However, I still believe that Pre-CU had loot, albeit less prominent than NGE's loot system.
I never liked the idea of Soul Bound etc. If u aquired the item it is yours. Why should anybody put restrictions on what you can do with YOUR items.
I absolutely hate soul bound/bio link.
SWG had it right the first time.
The population I can't give numbers though but I can tell you there were people EVERYWHERE. The hosiptals, cantinas, Theed, Coronet Massive (Where it should be busiest as it was the most central location, Everywhere. Now you only see the PVP junkies hanging around those areas and lucky if u see anybody else where.
Nice universe the NGE has doesn't it?