Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Would the Halflife2 Engine make for an MMO
Talinguard
Member UncommonPosts: 676
Is it just me, or would others like to see an MMO with HL2 style graphics and Physics engines? (the look of water in that game made me thirsty)
Now its been about 4 years, I would imagine that the technology would only be better.....
Am I alone?
Now its been about 4 years, I would imagine that the technology would only be better.....
Am I alone?
Presentation for new MMORPG economics concept http://www.slideshare.net/talin/mmo-economics-concept-v-10
Comments
I said no only because of historical evidence. Every game that has used a FPS shooter engine has had serious problems. I'm not a coder, and don't know the technicalities of it, but it just doesn't seem that FPS engines are very well suited for expansive MMO type games. Every popular, and well done, MMO has built their own engine. I do hope that Vanguard gets their problems sorted out, but I really think choosing a FPS engine has never worked out for a MMO.
FPS engines normally only support about 10-20 players and you'll notice every FPS has a loading screen. Every time you go into a new area, you load that area. EQ and EQ2 have loading screens but have built their own engines. Maybe someone else is more knowledgable about than I can explain it.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
I voted no. I think MMO companies should make their own engines instead of leasing somebody's. It shows they have the technical knowhow to be in a Genre of game as complicated as MMOs.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Bioware's using the Hero's Engine (its plastered all over the net if you google Bioware Hero Engine) for their MMO. They do have a liscence to use it for Mass Effect which is not an mmo and its a highly modified version as well.
EQ3 is purely speculation on your part they've not as far as I recollect even talked about EQ3 at all.
Sony is however using it for their DC comic's MMO.
Vanguard is using a bastardized hacked up version of Unreal 3 so we really shouldn't count that one.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Bioware's using the Hero's Engine (its plastered all over the net if you google Bioware Hero Engine) for their MMO. They do have a liscence to use it for Mass Effect which is not an mmo and its a highly modified version as well.
EQ3 is purely speculation on your part they've not as far as I recollect even talked about EQ3 at all.
Sony is however using it for their DC comic's MMO.
Vanguard is using a bastardized hacked up version of Unreal 3 so we really shouldn't count that one.
Bastarsized or not they still used it to devlop the game. With any amount of coding any engine can be used to develop a game Unreal engine is the most versatile and stable engine currently used to make non mmos and mmo games. Only thing that can match upto Epics new engine is cryteks engine for crysis.
I just dont' count it for Vanguard because their bastardized version might as well not of been Unreal's Engine. I personally don't care what engine any game uses as long as the game is good. They can look pretty but as we've learned pretty doesn't equal a good game.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Agent_X7 AKA J Star
[/URL]
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
If you look at the newer games on that list of Unreal engine games (Lineage 2 is running the Unreal 2 engine btw) most of them aren't ou yet and all but Vanguard will probably use instancing heavily (already been stated for Huxley & Global Agenda). The FPS engines from prior experience just don't seem to lend themselves well to the MMO genre. That said if an MMO came out using one I would play it so long as it didn't run extremely badly (ie. Vanguard).
The guys making Chronicles of Spellborn might've had the right idea in using Unreal 2.5 rather than 3 to make it easier on mid range systems.
Right, cause when I first log into a game and it`s lagging out the anus turning down the "graphics" settings doesn`t decrease the lag. *rolls eyes*
Polygons per frame. God, and you have an MMO podcast....
Wait, I just realized that may be sarcasm, please say it`s so!
As for making their own engines if it`s needed sure, but luckily there are tons of middleware solutions that are way better than wasting six months plus building an engine.
- Burying Threads Since 1979 -
I vote for the BF2 game engine. It can handle a lot of people on screen as well as open and closed environments. It works well on most system that are consider to be mid-high range and provides tons of detail and good effects.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Since we are going to all start touting engines I`ll add Soldner Secret Wars. The only engine to have infinite maps, fully destructable terrain, Air, Ground, and Sea battle, and up to 64 players per map, plus, its freaking 4 years old. Upgrade that engine to todays graphical, physical, and load standards and it would kill all.
- Burying Threads Since 1979 -
Unreal isn't used because it's awesome for MMOs, it's used because it's better than starting from 100% scratch.
The Hero Engine is probably the only middleware solution out there right now that has MMO design as it's focus. Unfortunately, all of the studios licensing the engine have games that are still early in development (Bioware, Colony Studios, etc.), so we can't be sure how good it will be.
Remember that with Unreal, even though some work may be done for you, you still have to go through the trouble of building the entire MMO system architecture yourself. Not very ideal.
Thats an awful lot of MMO's build on FPS engines for an engine that is supposed to cause major problems eh?
As one poster put it, I was asking asthetically speaking, would it be good, not would it be possible.
Another poster makes the point that there are two differnt kinds of lag, that caused by the clients connection to the server and the PC's ability to show the world with the settings you have chosen for the PC.
Most client server lag, as I understand it (assuming your running anything over 56k) comes from the server side when there are a lot of people in a small area. Now what "a lot" and "small" mean are relative only to the game and the hardware its on.
The fact is that most games today work fine with the bandwidth 56k offers its latency of 56k that's the issue.
As far as using middleware vs in house development, there are only two basic reasons I can think not to use someone elses engine....
1) MONEY...You believe that the development of your own engine will cost a lot up front, but the game will bring in enough revenue to offset production costs and when that day comes it means more to your bottom line.
2) there isn't an engine out there that matches the features and functionality you want to add to your world.
Wrapping this up, MMO's haven't failed because they chose FPS engines, I believe that they have all failed for a variity of other reasons, like bad jugement. One example of bad judgement may have been to use a particular FPS engine and ask it to do things it was never intended to do....
Presentation for new MMORPG economics concept http://www.slideshare.net/talin/mmo-economics-concept-v-10
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
No, off the top of my head I can think of at least three others, "BigWorld Technology", "Monumental Games", and "Multiverse".
While not specifically geared towards MMO games "Keneva", "GameByro", and "Renderware" are also possible solutions.
You may also want to check out "Worlds".
- Burying Threads Since 1979 -
No, off the top of my head I can think of at least three others, "BigWorld Technology", "Monumental Games", and "Multiverse".
While not specifically geared towards MMO games "Keneva", "GameByro", and "Renderware" are also possible solutions.
You may also want to check out "Worlds". Ah, forgot about BigWorld and Kaneva--and I haven't heard of the others before. Thanks.
Hmm...although now that I think about it, BigWorld (Dark and Light) and Kaneva (MMOCenter) aren't exactly poster children for good MMO middleware solutions currently, which goes against the point I was trying to make in my previous post. Ah well.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
- Burying Threads Since 1979 -
so I voted yes.
Bren Your right, and I agree with your summation, however there is another type of lag...server lag. Thats when too many people are clustered together in a single area. Servers have to process all the positional information and send it back to the clients. I have been on many a server that crashed because too many players were in the same area and could see to many other people. Clustering has helped but has not solved the problem.
Programming also has a lot to do with texture lag...DAoC's programming would wait to swap textures from memory or the hard drive right before players came into your clip range. You always knew when someone was right outside clip range if your PC studdered. If there was a massive group your PC would grind to a halt. the speed of your PC makes little difference. Bad programming...The game was created when 512mb was a lot of ram, therefore todays 2-4gb systems simply aren't loading all the textures that would be possible if programming was better.
WoW solved this problem simply by not showing your enemy until the client had time to draw it, but maintained positional data. Players could always see themselves fine and feel no lag. If two people are on mounts headed in opposite directions at top speed they may not see each other until they have already passed each other. Not an elegant fix, but it works, I guess.
Presentation for new MMORPG economics concept http://www.slideshare.net/talin/mmo-economics-concept-v-10
You forgot the Offset engine. They have taken extreme care in making the Editor good which is a major plus when you have to make lots of terrain and content. Not to mention it can do all the things Crytek and Unreal 3 engine can do and then some. Also there is the Quake Engine which WoW uses.
I chose no, only because it is a bitch to import static meshes into the source engine. Static meshes are especially important in mmorpgs. However, the logic behind the long importation time is explainable when you think about what the static mesh has to be capable of.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}