It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
You either trust a company or you don't. CCP has a long history of being very honest with the players of this game. Just because a few people with tinfoil hats are convinced that CCP is out to help BOB above all others in the game doesn't change that. I've been playing and/or following EVE since Beta phase 2 (there were like 9 phases) and CCP has never given me reason to doubt them when they come out and outright state something.
What kind of PROOF do you want? Internal company documentation? Sorry, that's against the law. Internal disciplinary notices? Again, against the law. The proof is in the pudding: Not one complaint about this type of thing has surfaced since this occured over 1 year ago. CCP has stated that they have changed policies, added tools and even added a whole new department to the corporation just to prevent this. The head of that department even posted on the boards saying hello, his job title, yada yada.
They've done everything but take you inside the building and let you boot up the computers yourself. Yet still the tinfoil hat brigade wants irrefutable PROOF.
Tell you what, when your government (and I don't care what country you're in) gives you irrefutable proof that they aren't hoodwinking you on a daily basis then you can start complaining about a private corporation being unwilling or unable to disclose proprietary corporate information or privacy act protected information about the internal workings of their corporation.
Till then? Either believe them... or don't. But dragging this crap up over and over and over again is just ridiculous. Not to mention that it's all "Much ado about nothing" because, frankly, the 'cheating' that occurred, while noteworthy, didn't really make a damn bit of difference in the grand scheme of things. A bunch of relatively worthless T2 BPO's for items nobody friggen buys anyway, at least not at any impressive markup and a BPO for a Interdictor that isn't really all that pricy either. The TOTAL value is estimated at about 5-10 billion isk. 1 player can make that in a year, let alone an entire alliance of over 1500 people.
Even if you play and are directly competing with bob the total value of this "cheat" was statistically insignificant.
Was it wrong? Sure... and it was dealt with. You either trust the company that they dealt with it or you don't. If you don't... fine but demanding "proof"? Please... there are laws involved that prevent them from providing that kind of proof.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
This happened *9* months ago. CCP admitted it to the players a little over *3* months ago. This is not as old as many people will have you believe.
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.
As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.
Kuguts was not banned for hacking. He was banned for releasing personal information of a player. That's what CCP says. However, other players have released personal information about a player and haev not received a lifetime ban.
As for releasing details, CCP has released details about other punishments in the past. GMs fired, macro miners banned, etc. They can release details as long as they don't release personal information.
It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
This happened *9* months ago. CCP admitted it to the players a little over *3* months ago. This is not as old as many people will have you believe.
It happened last July.... split hairs all you want.
Facts are facts.
1) it happened
2) it was dealt with, not once but twice
3) CCP explained what happened
4) CCP explained WHY it happened
5) CCP made changes to their game, their tools and their infrastructure to try to prevent it from happening again
6) PLAYERS don't feel that's enough
Guess what: You pay to play their game, not to run their company. If you don't trust them? Fine, like I said, don't play. But constantly dragging up a past offense just because you're pissed off about it is lame. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't REALLY matter. Some corp made a few billion isk more than it would have otherwise. Who cares. The total value was less than 10 dreadnaughts. Tell me again how many dreadnaughts BoB can field? Oh wait... that's right... it's in the HUNDREDS.... who f'ing cares if they got an extra 9 or 10 dreadnaughts out of a Dev exploit that was dealt with already?
Bottom line: It's been dealt with. Either you believe them or you don't. I love how ONE mistake (granted a pretty big one) is being held against them despite all the great things they've done for this community over the years. I'd hate to live in ya'lls neighborhood. Must go around shooting each other anytime someone's dog craps on your lawn.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.
As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.
Kuguts was not banned for hacking. He was banned for releasing personal information of a player. That's what CCP says. However, other players have released personal information about a player and haev not received a lifetime ban.
As for releasing details, CCP has released details about other punishments in the past. GMs fired, macro miners banned, etc. They can release details as long as they don't release personal information.
Except that the personal information has already been released.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Not one complaint about this type of thing has surfaced since this occured over 1 year ago. CCP has stated that they have changed policies, added tools and even added a whole new department to the corporation just to prevent this. The head of that department even posted on the boards saying hello, his job title, yada yada.
No complaint against a Dev specifically, but there was at least one complaint dealing with the event that awarded a mothership under very suspcious circumstances.
CCP has not changed policies. They refused to talk to the players at all about those policies. Please post a link to these supposed policy changes.
Yes, they did announce a new Internal Affairs position and he posted on the forums saying hello. Then he ignored 99% of the questions that the players asked. Sure looks like nothing more than a public relations move.
CCP lied repeatedly to the players and now wants everyone to forget this occurred and trust their word that it won't happen again. I don't know about you, but I'm not inclined to trust someone who just lied to me.
It happened last July.... split hairs all you want.
In any event, it was not a YEAR. You were trying to make it sound like it was a lot longer ago than it was.
Facts are facts.
1) it happened
2) it was dealt with, not once but twice
CCP did not deal with it twice. They dealt with it horribly when they found out about it and tried to cover it up. Then, they got caught and had to come clean. That's not dealing with it twice.
3) CCP explained what happened
4) CCP explained WHY it happened
5) CCP made changes to their game, their tools and their infrastructure to try to prevent it from happening again
6) PLAYERS don't feel that's enough
Most players wanted a dialogue with CCP, but CCP ignored the players. That's why most of the players are upset. The only thing that CCP changed was appointing an Internal Affairs Director. That's all we know. We're left to trust them for the rest.
Guess what: You pay to play their game, not to run their company. If you don't trust them? Fine, like I said, don't play. But constantly dragging up a past offense just because you're pissed off about it is lame.
As I said before, this specific thread was not really needed. However, this is the kind of information that new players should have before they decide to pay CCP for a service.
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't REALLY matter. Some corp made a few billion isk more than it would have otherwise. Who cares. The total value was less than 10 dreadnaughts. Tell me again how many dreadnaughts BoB can field? Oh wait... that's right... it's in the HUNDREDS.... who f'ing cares if they got an extra 9 or 10 dreadnaughts out of a Dev exploit that was dealt with already?
Many more players were also upset that T20 was running the capital fleet of BoB than about the net effect of the BPs. The only reason that T20 had to leave that position is that his identity as a Dev was discovered. It's perfectly fine with CCP for Devs to hold critical postions in major Alliances.
The BPs and the money they generated were not a huge deal. However, as a player who did mission grinding to get level 4 R&D agents I was not happy that my personal chances of getting a T2 BPO were reduced because a Dev didn't want to play the game by the same rules.
Bottom line: It's been dealt with. Either you believe them or you don't. I love how ONE mistake (granted a pretty big one) is being held against them despite all the great things they've done for this community over the years. I'd hate to live in ya'lls neighborhood. Must go around shooting each other anytime someone's dog craps on your lawn.
I don't care how many good things that they've done. They lied repeatedly, refused a dialogue, and now want the same trust as they used to have. That wouldn't work for anyone in my personal life, let alone for a compnay that I pay.
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.
As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.
Kuguts was not banned for hacking. He was banned for releasing personal information of a player. That's what CCP says. However, other players have released personal information about a player and haev not received a lifetime ban.
As for releasing details, CCP has released details about other punishments in the past. GMs fired, macro miners banned, etc. They can release details as long as they don't release personal information.
Except that the personal information has already been released. A Dev handle of "T20" is not personal information. In addtiion, CCP could have annouced the punishment when they first discovered it and not even have mentioned his Dev handle.
As you might have read and heard, there were recently some allegations posted regarding developer misconduct that basically come down to:
Developers helping (an) alliance(s) gain information they otherwise would not have.
Developers having an unfair advantage of game mechanics.
Developers helping themselves acquire goods in-game by means of in-house tools, otherwise not available to regular players.
All allegations mentioned above are untrue, except one. Sadly enough, the allegation regarding unlawfully obtained blueprints are, in my case, true. I’m here, laying out the facts of what happened in June 2006 so this whole issue -- which jeopardized my colleagues, my company and our community -- can be put behind us, I hope for the better.
The blueprints in question will be returned to CCP and reintroduced through a new raffle in the future. Specifically, these are:
Flameburst Precision Light Missile Blueprint
Phalanx Rage Rocket Blueprint
Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Blueprint
Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile Blueprint
Spike L Blueprint
Sabre Blueprint
Regrettably, my actions inevitably led to a shadow of suspicion being cast on a number of my co-workers, as well as Reikoku and Band of Brothers. I wish to make it clear that I acted alone and my co-workers and corp/alliance mates have been cleared of any alleged wrongdoing.
As much as this is a confession it is also a request for your forgiveness for events of which I’m truly sorry.
As you can see, this was on June 2006. We are in May, so this was 11 months ago (Not 9). As you can see, it was said that the BPOs were returned to CCP for the raffle system they have. Also, those BPOs aren't even that great. Are you discontent by THIS? Again, if you don't like it sir, well leave. We'll miss you, pal.
Myself I have a little over a million of each and every of those missiles and rocket. I'm not going to cry because someone has those BPOs.
As you might have read and heard, there were recently some allegations posted regarding developer misconduct that basically come down to:
Developers helping (an) alliance(s) gain information they otherwise would not have. Developers having an unfair advantage of game mechanics. Developers helping themselves acquire goods in-game by means of in-house tools, otherwise not available to regular players.
All allegations mentioned above are untrue, except one. Sadly enough, the allegation regarding unlawfully obtained blueprints are, in my case, true. I’m here, laying out the facts of what happened in June 2006 so this whole issue -- which jeopardized my colleagues, my company and our community -- can be put behind us, I hope for the better. The blueprints in question will be returned to CCP and reintroduced through a new raffle in the future. Specifically, these are:
Regrettably, my actions inevitably led to a shadow of suspicion being cast on a number of my co-workers, as well as Reikoku and Band of Brothers. I wish to make it clear that I acted alone and my co-workers and corp/alliance mates have been cleared of any alleged wrongdoing. As much as this is a confession it is also a request for your forgiveness for events of which I’m truly sorry. As you can see, this was on June 2006. We are in May, so this was 11 months ago (Not 9). As you can see, it was said that the BPOs were returned to CCP for the raffle system they have. Also, those BPOs aren't even that great. Are you discontent by THIS? Again, if you don't like it sir, well leave. We'll miss you, pal.
Myself I have a little over a million of each and every of those missiles and rocket. I'm not going to cry because someone has those BPOs.
I would have sworn that it was actually uncovered in house in August, but I'll take T20's word for it for now (as ironic as that is).
In any event, this became public on Feb 9th. Just over three months ago. The fact that it happened in June just means that CCP covered up the incident two months longer.
As I said, what many players including myslef, are angry about is how CCP reacted. Before Feb 9th, they were denying that this happened. Then, they had to "investigate" something that they already knew had happened. Then, they finally admit to it and expect everything to go back to normal.
And yes, I'd take any of those BPOs. You have a million of each missile? It would be nice to have the profit from those sales in my wallet. Oh, and you're overlooking the Sabre BPO. It would be nice to have an Interdictor BPO.
And unless something changes I will be quitting EVE once my paid time runs out.
As you might have read and heard, there were recently some allegations posted regarding developer misconduct that basically come down to:
Developers helping (an) alliance(s) gain information they otherwise would not have. Developers having an unfair advantage of game mechanics. Developers helping themselves acquire goods in-game by means of in-house tools, otherwise not available to regular players.
All allegations mentioned above are untrue, except one. Sadly enough, the allegation regarding unlawfully obtained blueprints are, in my case, true. I’m here, laying out the facts of what happened in June 2006 so this whole issue -- which jeopardized my colleagues, my company and our community -- can be put behind us, I hope for the better. The blueprints in question will be returned to CCP and reintroduced through a new raffle in the future. Specifically, these are:
Regrettably, my actions inevitably led to a shadow of suspicion being cast on a number of my co-workers, as well as Reikoku and Band of Brothers. I wish to make it clear that I acted alone and my co-workers and corp/alliance mates have been cleared of any alleged wrongdoing. As much as this is a confession it is also a request for your forgiveness for events of which I’m truly sorry. As you can see, this was on June 2006. We are in May, so this was 11 months ago (Not 9). As you can see, it was said that the BPOs were returned to CCP for the raffle system they have. Also, those BPOs aren't even that great. Are you discontent by THIS? Again, if you don't like it sir, well leave. We'll miss you, pal.
Myself I have a little over a million of each and every of those missiles and rocket. I'm not going to cry because someone has those BPOs.
I would have sworn that it was actually uncovered in house in August, but I'll take T20's word for it for now (as ironic as that is).
In any event, this became public on Feb 9th. Just over three months ago. The fact that it happened in June just means that CCP covered up the incident two months longer.
As I said, what many players including myslef, are angry about is how CCP reacted. Before Feb 9th, they were denying that this happened. Then, they had to "investigate" something that they already knew had happened. Then, they finally admit to it and expect everything to go back to normal.
And yes, I'd take any of those BPOs. You have a million of each missile? It would be nice to have the profit from those sales in my wallet. Oh, and you're overlooking the Sabre BPO. It would be nice to have an Interdictor BPO.
And unless something changes I will be quitting EVE once my paid time runs out. I don't mind the interdictor, is definitely not one of my favorites. Missiles are not for sale, they are for personal use. Most of my missile weaponry is T2. Rockets, Missiles, Heavies, Cruise.
CCP reacted, late, but they did something about it. Their CEO says that they wish they could have done it differently. Everyone has regrets after the bad handling of some situation. But this was fixed and won't repeat, or so they say. I believe, I have fun with the game. I didn't even notice the difference, cheat or not. Yes you can say there are ripples and fluctuations on the market because of this, best thing you can do is take advantage and go on with the wave. Play it smart.
You dislike the situation, took the wrong wave... to bad for you. As easy as quitting.
It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.
As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.
Two things, Iceland doesn't have laws protecting this type of information. I was stationed there for 3 years. Secondly while I have no proof of it, I wouldn't be surprised that the cheating is still on going. Icelandic culture is different from american culture and a lot of other western cultures. They work extremely hard, but they also play extremely hard. They don't really care much about the rules in a lot of instances. And they will totally cover for each other. The reason being is that most of Iceland is related distantly, but they treat each other like they are close relatives. For instance if you are in an Icelandic Bar and get into a fight, you will end up fighting that entire bar. Another instance is if an Icelandic guy is drunk he can just walk up to any car and they will give him a ride home. They don't really have much crime there so the rules aren't as strictly enforced. So growing up in that environment could totally lead to a lack of respect for authority and rules. So I could see widespread cheating coming from the game.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.
As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.
Two things, Iceland doesn't have laws protecting this type of information. I was stationed there for 3 years. Secondly while I have no proof of it, I wouldn't be surprised that the cheating is still on going. Icelandic culture is different from american culture and a lot of other western cultures. They work extremely hard, but they also play extremely hard. They don't really care much about the rules in a lot of instances. And they will totally cover for each other. The reason being is that most of Iceland is related distantly, but they treat each other like they are close relatives. For instance if you are in an Icelandic Bar and get into a fight, you will end up fighting that entire bar. Another instance is if an Icelandic guy is drunk he can just walk up to any car and they will give him a ride home. They don't really have much crime there so the rules aren't as strictly enforced. So growing up in that environment could totally lead to a lack of respect for authority and rules. So I could see widespread cheating coming from the game. I understand that... I'm not American... Thank God!
It was dealt with TWICE, inadequately at the time, then THOROUGHLY this past winter (over FIVE months ago now).
Get over it already. This isn't even water under the bridge. It's water down the river, over the falls and into the ocean at this point.
I swear people drag this crap up way too often. CCP fixed their gaffe, no further exploiting of this type has occurred and they've put things in place to prevent it happening again. The only people who give a rip about this NOW are people with nothing better to do than dig up ancient history.
Yes, learn from it. Yes, know about it. But dragging it up over and over and over is just stupid.
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.
As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.
Wrong, he did not get banned for hacking he did get banned for 2 things.. 1) naming SirMolle on the official forums, and 2) actions that costed CCP money.
He claims he never have hacked any accounts in EVE, he have not hacked CCP's homepages... he have hacked BoB's forums.
CCP can't ban Kuguts for something not done on their assets.
However... what you do forget is that SirMolle did also name Kuguts on the forums, the difference is ... he did not get banned.
Both broke the EULA, only Kuguts got banned for it.
CCP have not dealt with this issue, they say they have punished T20 but someone I saw claiming that infact he got a promotion or higher payment somewhere where I right now can't remember.
Also CCP have not dealt with it because they left SirMolle and many of the leaders of BoB go even after they clearly have broken the EULA, if you are going to punish someone for breaking the EULA you better punish everyone that do so.
However... I have not played this game since february now and more and more I feel less drawn towards the forums where this is... so I am pretty sure I will never return to this game.
Yawn, this is a very dead horse. Anyone still harping on it has an agenda that has nothing to do with an honest warning to players or discussing the integrity of the game.
Eve is a great game but you're free to quit at any time if you're really worried about being cheated.
Just alittle reminder that this is a game. Only young minded people will take this action overrated. Don't get me wrong everyone has a kid in them. But to let it take over you like you are one is insane we need to grow out of the childhood stage. But also take advantage of it by enjoying what we love best which is Playinig interesting,updated,Fast pace, Gaming. On the other hand cheating was done theres nothing you can accomplish by yelling and typing your brains out on a Forum. Playing games will always be in the heart of every person if its Mario to Final Fantasy to Zelda. In short what im saying people that quit this game cause of the cheating should have thought of this action when they click enter on the Term & Condition. <Think about this before a reply how many games you cheated on it might not been much maybe a health code or a lvl skip its just the Boredem it happen's.?>
So what i'm trying to say is that life to short to waste on something your not happy with if your happy somewhere else sorry we did'nt get to meet on EvE.
And if your staying cause cheating is everywhere you go and you love the Gameplay then I tip my hat to you cause i rather see yoyu by my side in battle. Otherwise you will be on the other side of the battle feild which isn't so good but its always better then playing by yourself.
Well I don't know about you but with products I pay for I don't accept cheating in, especially NOT from those who provide that product.
And no matter how you see it, EVE-Online is a product they offer, CCP have not satisfied me as customer with their cheating employees and cover-up.
Also I do not like the fact that they threat their customers differently ... like the case of Kuguts and SirMolle ... who both broke EULA but they chosed to only punish Kuguts for the EULA breach.
I had lots of assets in my character (including 2 tech 2 bpo's, 10 battleships all in all assets worth billions of isk) and yeah I where probably not affected by the cheating at all, but it does not matter... I still don't like the provider of my paid product to cheat and cover-up so I canceled both my accounts and left EVE.
Some ingame friends asked why I did not join the coalitions and fought BoB, why whould I do that ? why would I bother to boost BoB and pets killboard when we all know the outcome of it ? I knew back then before the war that the coalitions would not win, you can't win over someone that is getting so much help from the Dev's.
It only proves alot of what I did suspect about BoB the things that happens these days... and have happend up to this day, and it does not reflect good on CCP at all.
Well I don't know about you but with products I pay for I don't accept cheating in, especially NOT from those who provide that product. And no matter how you see it, EVE-Online is a product they offer, CCP have not satisfied me as customer with their cheating employees and cover-up. Also I do not like the fact that they threat their customers differently ... like the case of Kuguts and SirMolle ... who both broke EULA but they chosed to only punish Kuguts for the EULA breach. Actually sir mole did his thing after KUG was kicked from the game so wasant protected by the EULA I had lots of assets in my character (including 2 tech 2 bpo's, 10 battleships all in all assets worth billions of isk) and yeah I where probably not affected by the cheating at all, but it does not matter... I still don't like the provider of my paid product to cheat and cover-up so I canceled both my accounts and left EVE.
Some ingame friends asked why I did not join the coalitions and fought BoB, why whould I do that ? why would I bother to boost BoB and pets killboard when we all know the outcome of it ? I knew back then before the war that the coalitions would not win, you can't win over someone that is getting so much help from the Dev's. It only proves alot of what I did suspect about BoB the things that happens these days... and have happend up to this day, and it does not reflect good on CCP at all.
Oh cmon allready stop bitching and moaning about it
Its really getting sad, if your unsatisfied, quit playing Eve, if they loose their customers they loose their income and go down, thats the only way to hit them
People have the right to continue to gripe about this issue if they so choose. You also have the right and ability not to read about it, if it doesn't concern you or you just want to pretend it never happened either way its all part of free will. I guess you just wanted to keep bumping the topic back to the top of the thread list eh?
Well I don't know about you but with products I pay for I don't accept cheating in, especially NOT from those who provide that product. And no matter how you see it, EVE-Online is a product they offer, CCP have not satisfied me as customer with their cheating employees and cover-up. Also I do not like the fact that they threat their customers differently ... like the case of Kuguts and SirMolle ... who both broke EULA but they chosed to only punish Kuguts for the EULA breach. Actually sir mole did his thing after KUG was kicked from the game so wasant protected by the EULA I had lots of assets in my character (including 2 tech 2 bpo's, 10 battleships all in all assets worth billions of isk) and yeah I where probably not affected by the cheating at all, but it does not matter... I still don't like the provider of my paid product to cheat and cover-up so I canceled both my accounts and left EVE.
Some ingame friends asked why I did not join the coalitions and fought BoB, why whould I do that ? why would I bother to boost BoB and pets killboard when we all know the outcome of it ? I knew back then before the war that the coalitions would not win, you can't win over someone that is getting so much help from the Dev's. It only proves alot of what I did suspect about BoB the things that happens these days... and have happend up to this day, and it does not reflect good on CCP at all.
Read the EULA, it is still illegal for SirMolle to name Kuguts... I have quoted from the EULA where the break was in previous post somewhere here... read it and see that SirMolle did infact break the EULA but got away with it.
Comments
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
You either trust a company or you don't. CCP has a long history of being very honest with the players of this game. Just because a few people with tinfoil hats are convinced that CCP is out to help BOB above all others in the game doesn't change that. I've been playing and/or following EVE since Beta phase 2 (there were like 9 phases) and CCP has never given me reason to doubt them when they come out and outright state something.
What kind of PROOF do you want? Internal company documentation? Sorry, that's against the law. Internal disciplinary notices? Again, against the law. The proof is in the pudding: Not one complaint about this type of thing has surfaced since this occured over 1 year ago. CCP has stated that they have changed policies, added tools and even added a whole new department to the corporation just to prevent this. The head of that department even posted on the boards saying hello, his job title, yada yada.
They've done everything but take you inside the building and let you boot up the computers yourself. Yet still the tinfoil hat brigade wants irrefutable PROOF.
Tell you what, when your government (and I don't care what country you're in) gives you irrefutable proof that they aren't hoodwinking you on a daily basis then you can start complaining about a private corporation being unwilling or unable to disclose proprietary corporate information or privacy act protected information about the internal workings of their corporation.
Till then? Either believe them... or don't. But dragging this crap up over and over and over again is just ridiculous. Not to mention that it's all "Much ado about nothing" because, frankly, the 'cheating' that occurred, while noteworthy, didn't really make a damn bit of difference in the grand scheme of things. A bunch of relatively worthless T2 BPO's for items nobody friggen buys anyway, at least not at any impressive markup and a BPO for a Interdictor that isn't really all that pricy either. The TOTAL value is estimated at about 5-10 billion isk. 1 player can make that in a year, let alone an entire alliance of over 1500 people.
Even if you play and are directly competing with bob the total value of this "cheat" was statistically insignificant.
Was it wrong? Sure... and it was dealt with. You either trust the company that they dealt with it or you don't. If you don't... fine but demanding "proof"? Please... there are laws involved that prevent them from providing that kind of proof.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
As for releasing details, CCP has released details about other punishments in the past. GMs fired, macro miners banned, etc. They can release details as long as they don't release personal information.
It happened last July.... split hairs all you want.
Facts are facts.
1) it happened
2) it was dealt with, not once but twice
3) CCP explained what happened
4) CCP explained WHY it happened
5) CCP made changes to their game, their tools and their infrastructure to try to prevent it from happening again
6) PLAYERS don't feel that's enough
Guess what: You pay to play their game, not to run their company. If you don't trust them? Fine, like I said, don't play. But constantly dragging up a past offense just because you're pissed off about it is lame. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't REALLY matter. Some corp made a few billion isk more than it would have otherwise. Who cares. The total value was less than 10 dreadnaughts. Tell me again how many dreadnaughts BoB can field? Oh wait... that's right... it's in the HUNDREDS.... who f'ing cares if they got an extra 9 or 10 dreadnaughts out of a Dev exploit that was dealt with already?
Bottom line: It's been dealt with. Either you believe them or you don't. I love how ONE mistake (granted a pretty big one) is being held against them despite all the great things they've done for this community over the years. I'd hate to live in ya'lls neighborhood. Must go around shooting each other anytime someone's dog craps on your lawn.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
As for releasing details, CCP has released details about other punishments in the past. GMs fired, macro miners banned, etc. They can release details as long as they don't release personal information.
Except that the personal information has already been released.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
CCP has not changed policies. They refused to talk to the players at all about those policies. Please post a link to these supposed policy changes.
Yes, they did announce a new Internal Affairs position and he posted on the forums saying hello. Then he ignored 99% of the questions that the players asked. Sure looks like nothing more than a public relations move.
CCP lied repeatedly to the players and now wants everyone to forget this occurred and trust their word that it won't happen again. I don't know about you, but I'm not inclined to trust someone who just lied to me.
As for releasing details, CCP has released details about other punishments in the past. GMs fired, macro miners banned, etc. They can release details as long as they don't release personal information.
Except that the personal information has already been released. A Dev handle of "T20" is not personal information. In addtiion, CCP could have annouced the punishment when they first discovered it and not even have mentioned his Dev handle.
As you might have read and heard, there were recently some allegations posted regarding developer misconduct that basically come down to:
All allegations mentioned above are untrue, except one. Sadly enough, the allegation regarding unlawfully obtained blueprints are, in my case, true. I’m here, laying out the facts of what happened in June 2006 so this whole issue -- which jeopardized my colleagues, my company and our community -- can be put behind us, I hope for the better.
The blueprints in question will be returned to CCP and reintroduced through a new raffle in the future. Specifically, these are:
Regrettably, my actions inevitably led to a shadow of suspicion being cast on a number of my co-workers, as well as Reikoku and Band of Brothers. I wish to make it clear that I acted alone and my co-workers and corp/alliance mates have been cleared of any alleged wrongdoing.
As much as this is a confession it is also a request for your forgiveness for events of which I’m truly sorry.
As you can see, this was on June 2006. We are in May, so this was 11 months ago (Not 9). As you can see, it was said that the BPOs were returned to CCP for the raffle system they have. Also, those BPOs aren't even that great. Are you discontent by THIS? Again, if you don't like it sir, well leave. We'll miss you, pal.Myself I have a little over a million of each and every of those missiles and rocket. I'm not going to cry because someone has those BPOs.
In any event, this became public on Feb 9th. Just over three months ago. The fact that it happened in June just means that CCP covered up the incident two months longer.
As I said, what many players including myslef, are angry about is how CCP reacted. Before Feb 9th, they were denying that this happened. Then, they had to "investigate" something that they already knew had happened. Then, they finally admit to it and expect everything to go back to normal.
And yes, I'd take any of those BPOs. You have a million of each missile? It would be nice to have the profit from those sales in my wallet. Oh, and you're overlooking the Sabre BPO. It would be nice to have an Interdictor BPO.
And unless something changes I will be quitting EVE once my paid time runs out.
In any event, this became public on Feb 9th. Just over three months ago. The fact that it happened in June just means that CCP covered up the incident two months longer.
As I said, what many players including myslef, are angry about is how CCP reacted. Before Feb 9th, they were denying that this happened. Then, they had to "investigate" something that they already knew had happened. Then, they finally admit to it and expect everything to go back to normal.
And yes, I'd take any of those BPOs. You have a million of each missile? It would be nice to have the profit from those sales in my wallet. Oh, and you're overlooking the Sabre BPO. It would be nice to have an Interdictor BPO.
And unless something changes I will be quitting EVE once my paid time runs out. I don't mind the interdictor, is definitely not one of my favorites. Missiles are not for sale, they are for personal use. Most of my missile weaponry is T2. Rockets, Missiles, Heavies, Cruise.
CCP reacted, late, but they did something about it. Their CEO says that they wish they could have done it differently. Everyone has regrets after the bad handling of some situation. But this was fixed and won't repeat, or so they say. I believe, I have fun with the game. I didn't even notice the difference, cheat or not. Yes you can say there are ripples and fluctuations on the market because of this, best thing you can do is take advantage and go on with the wave. Play it smart.
You dislike the situation, took the wrong wave... to bad for you. As easy as quitting.
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.
Two things, Iceland doesn't have laws protecting this type of information. I was stationed there for 3 years. Secondly while I have no proof of it, I wouldn't be surprised that the cheating is still on going. Icelandic culture is different from american culture and a lot of other western cultures. They work extremely hard, but they also play extremely hard. They don't really care much about the rules in a lot of instances. And they will totally cover for each other. The reason being is that most of Iceland is related distantly, but they treat each other like they are close relatives. For instance if you are in an Icelandic Bar and get into a fight, you will end up fighting that entire bar. Another instance is if an Icelandic guy is drunk he can just walk up to any car and they will give him a ride home. They don't really have much crime there so the rules aren't as strictly enforced. So growing up in that environment could totally lead to a lack of respect for authority and rules. So I could see widespread cheating coming from the game.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.
Two things, Iceland doesn't have laws protecting this type of information. I was stationed there for 3 years. Secondly while I have no proof of it, I wouldn't be surprised that the cheating is still on going. Icelandic culture is different from american culture and a lot of other western cultures. They work extremely hard, but they also play extremely hard. They don't really care much about the rules in a lot of instances. And they will totally cover for each other. The reason being is that most of Iceland is related distantly, but they treat each other like they are close relatives. For instance if you are in an Icelandic Bar and get into a fight, you will end up fighting that entire bar. Another instance is if an Icelandic guy is drunk he can just walk up to any car and they will give him a ride home. They don't really have much crime there so the rules aren't as strictly enforced. So growing up in that environment could totally lead to a lack of respect for authority and rules. So I could see widespread cheating coming from the game.
I was reading the thread because I was thinking about giving EVE another try. (I never got far in the game at all, but hear they were going to add avatars so thought I might try it again) But this makes me think twice about trying it. Do you have any proof that the problem has been fixed and the cheating has stopped? Or is that just because CCP says it doesn't happen anymore?
It seems to me, from the responses I have seen, the fact is that CCP's word can't be trusted. How can they call the person who exposed the problem a liar and deny that cheating is going on, but then turn around and say that they caught the cheating 6 months prior to that and had already punished the dev who was cheating?
Either that displays a environment of mismanagement and poor communication, or they think the players are idiots and will listen to what ever they say.
Kuguts was just banned for the crime of Hacking of course. Even if it was a good cause, hacking is a crime and it goes against the company's rules. EULA, I think is called the contract.As for the company, there are rules within the company were they can't say anything about the person involved in public. They can say the matter was dealt with, but they can't give out details. People want details and proof, the company is bound by RL laws, so they can't do that. When my company fires or punishes someone, they don't send a company wide email saying someone got fired or punished. The person just stops going to work as if he/she disappeared or continues duties as if nothing happened. Same thing on CCP.
I don't blame them for that. If the company says they dealt with it. Well you better believe them, and if not, then quit. No one has chained you to the company or the game. It will always be your choice.
Wrong, he did not get banned for hacking he did get banned for 2 things.. 1) naming SirMolle on the official forums, and 2) actions that costed CCP money.
He claims he never have hacked any accounts in EVE, he have not hacked CCP's homepages... he have hacked BoB's forums.
CCP can't ban Kuguts for something not done on their assets.
However... what you do forget is that SirMolle did also name Kuguts on the forums, the difference is ... he did not get banned.
Both broke the EULA, only Kuguts got banned for it.
CCP have not dealt with this issue, they say they have punished T20 but someone I saw claiming that infact he got a promotion or higher payment somewhere where I right now can't remember.
Also CCP have not dealt with it because they left SirMolle and many of the leaders of BoB go even after they clearly have broken the EULA, if you are going to punish someone for breaking the EULA you better punish everyone that do so.
However... I have not played this game since february now and more and more I feel less drawn towards the forums where this is... so I am pretty sure I will never return to this game.
For dead horse beatings, please head to the WoW forums and post in the "WoW is Dying" Posts. Thanks!
Further proof CCP cheats!
For the latest news on a CCP DEV, Chickenboy, cought cheating click below.
http://foulmouth.ytmnd.com/
ps, Do you cry over spilled milk as well, or just games?
Yawn, this is a very dead horse. Anyone still harping on it has an agenda that has nothing to do with an honest warning to players or discussing the integrity of the game.
Eve is a great game but you're free to quit at any time if you're really worried about being cheated.
Just alittle reminder that this is a game. Only young minded people will take this action overrated. Don't get me wrong everyone has a kid in them. But to let it take over you like you are one is insane we need to grow out of the childhood stage. But also take advantage of it by enjoying what we love best which is Playinig interesting,updated,Fast pace, Gaming. On the other hand cheating was done theres nothing you can accomplish by yelling and typing your brains out on a Forum. Playing games will always be in the heart of every person if its Mario to Final Fantasy to Zelda. In short what im saying people that quit this game cause of the cheating should have thought of this action when they click enter on the Term & Condition. <Think about this before a reply how many games you cheated on it might not been much maybe a health code or a lvl skip its just the Boredem it happen's.?>
So what i'm trying to say is that life to short to waste on something your not happy with if your happy somewhere else sorry we did'nt get to meet on EvE.
And if your staying cause cheating is everywhere you go and you love the Gameplay then I tip my hat to you cause i rather see yoyu by my side in battle. Otherwise you will be on the other side of the battle feild which isn't so good but its always better then playing by yourself.
To Gamers Everywhere
Well I don't know about you but with products I pay for I don't accept cheating in, especially NOT from those who provide that product.
And no matter how you see it, EVE-Online is a product they offer, CCP have not satisfied me as customer with their cheating employees and cover-up.
Also I do not like the fact that they threat their customers differently ... like the case of Kuguts and SirMolle ... who both broke EULA but they chosed to only punish Kuguts for the EULA breach.
I had lots of assets in my character (including 2 tech 2 bpo's, 10 battleships all in all assets worth billions of isk) and yeah I where probably not affected by the cheating at all, but it does not matter... I still don't like the provider of my paid product to cheat and cover-up so I canceled both my accounts and left EVE.
Some ingame friends asked why I did not join the coalitions and fought BoB, why whould I do that ? why would I bother to boost BoB and pets killboard when we all know the outcome of it ? I knew back then before the war that the coalitions would not win, you can't win over someone that is getting so much help from the Dev's.
It only proves alot of what I did suspect about BoB the things that happens these days... and have happend up to this day, and it does not reflect good on CCP at all.
Its really getting sad, if your unsatisfied, quit playing Eve, if they loose their customers they loose their income and go down, thats the only way to hit them
List of SOE lies
People have the right to continue to gripe about this issue if they so choose. You also have the right and ability not to read about it, if it doesn't concern you or you just want to pretend it never happened either way its all part of free will. I guess you just wanted to keep bumping the topic back to the top of the thread list eh?
Read the EULA, it is still illegal for SirMolle to name Kuguts... I have quoted from the EULA where the break was in previous post somewhere here... read it and see that SirMolle did infact break the EULA but got away with it.
Section 6.7 in the EULA... point IV
and if that is tl;dr.
just look at these 2 images:
also join the threadnagught by posting that link in pertinent forums.
This is CCP's response to our complaints: