New Tanker and Scrapper powersets

Amarsir · May 2007

I know the discussion of new powersets comes up every so often, specifically for Scrappers and Tankers who've are lacking and have been left out of more recent additions.

Well those of you who feel like that may be interested in this poll here. They are asking players to vote on what sets get prioritized in development:

Melee Sets
O Street Fighting
O Electric Hammer
O Energy Blade
O Psionic Weaponry
O Dual Blades
O Ball and Chain *
O Shield Fighting *

Defensive Sets
O Density Control
O Force Field
O Willpower
O Vibration
O Growth *
O Shield Defense *

* These powers might take longer to implement for technical reasons.

They would be tentatively scheduled for i11 as i10 is pretty much out of design and well into implementation by now.

Thoughts?

Amarsir · May 2007

For my two cents, I think it might be worth the wait on the technically complex ones (Shields, Ball & Chain, Growth), as they sound pretty cool.

I figure Psi Weapon would be popular for PvPers. But I think I'm going to vote for Energy Blade, it concepts easily.

For the defensive sets, I figure Density and Willpower would be Resistance sets, Vibration would be Def/Resist, Growth would probably be healing / resistance, and Force Field and Shield would be defense.

Based on that, Growth gets the nod from me.

DrowNoble · May 2007

Street Brawling would be a good scrapper set, attack with brass knuckles, baseball bats etc...

Tanker side I would think since they have 3 elemental type attack sets, stone (earth), ice (water), fiery (fire) that they could add Sonic for the air one.

deucallion · May 2007

Street Fighting sounds promising, but the rest of the melee sets just seem too . . . left field for my taste. Might as well add something as exotic as ' Office Supplies Melee ' or something.

Not sure what i think about the defensive sets. I'd like to see Tanks get some kinda Body Armor defensive set. Don't have any idea how Growth, or Willpower would work. Or some of the others for that matter. Just my opinion though. And i definitely agree that some new powersets for the scrapsters and tanksters are long overdue.

newchemicals · May 2007

Depending on which of those Cryptic picks, i *might* be willing to come back and try something new.

It will be interesting when this occurs.

Jpizzle · May 2007

Issue 11 pretty much means a year from now. So, the “extra time” thing should be moot. 12 months is plenty of time to design and implement.

Unknown · May 2007

Originally posted by Amarsir

I know the discussion of new powersets comes up every so often, specifically for Scrappers and Tankers who've are lacking and have been left out of more recent additions.
Well those of you who feel like that may be interested in this poll here. They are asking players to vote on what sets get prioritized in development:
Melee Sets

O Street Fighting

O Electric Hammer

O Energy Blade

O Psionic Weaponry

O Dual Blades

O Ball and Chain *

O Shield Fighting *
Defensive Sets

O Density Control

O Force Field

O Willpower

O Vibration

O Growth *

O Shield Defense *
* These powers might take longer to implement for technical reasons.
They would be tentatively scheduled for i11 as i10 is pretty much out of design and well into implementation by now.
Thoughts?

Offense

They have MA already but I would really like to see street fighting and using the MA + Dark Melee animations it should be somewhat easy to do. I would like to see Energy blade and Dual blade as well. Both of those are really more cool factor, as they would probably be very similar to Katana and Claws. But cool factor is half of COH.

Shield fighting is not worth the time and the other ones are ok. They are kinda cool but most people won't take them over other options, except perhaps on tanks.

Defense

Shield should be implemented for both Scrappers and Tanks. People like it and it fits with the Broadsword and Axe sets.

I'm not a big fan of Vibration/Density/Willpower and really don't see them being all that spectacular or popular for tanks or scrappers. Growth could be good but has obvious technical and interface problems. Willpower could fit some kinda of Psionic concept, but force field would fit that anyway. I'm sure some Natural RP'ers would like it, but if you are that into concept I am not sure how you justify a Natural with alot of willpower taking a direct hit from a bigass sword or plasma cannon. Vibration just seem silly to me. Density might be ok, not really sure what it entails, but that set would be more about what it offers than anything else. The concept is too vague.

Force field seems perfectly fine, but isn't that what the Energy defense sets already are essentially?

Sanctus_Mors · May 2007

Duel Wield/Shield Defense may be a bit awkward. Interesting to see what comes out.

Amarsir · May 2007

Originally posted by Jpizzle
Issue 11 pretty much means a year from now. So, the extra time thing should be moot. 12 months is plenty of time to design and implement.

Setting aside the question of if 2 issues means 8 moths or 12, I'll grant your premise. It's far from moot though.

Consider the Ball & Chain. It should have a little range, say 10-15 feet? Right now anything in the game that reaches out of melee (5 feet) has particles that extend out and hit / miss the target. But the ball & chain would have to be a continuous object that animates out and back again. Nothing in the entire game works that way, and if this requires an engine overhaul then a year with 1-2 coders isn't nearly enough manpower. That's a completely different schedule than a "normal" set, and it would be ridiculous of us to expect one in the same amount of time.

And that's not to mention any other effects we might expect from a ball & chain - for example, the ability to wrap around someone's legs, knock them down, and pull them forward. That would be a great effect, but can the game handle it?

Or consider Growth. Presumably the character should, you know, grow. Even if you ignore basic clipping issues (especially in doorways), consider the problem of animations. There's no guarantee that animations designed to fit characters from 4-8 feet will work just as well on one at 20 (to say nothing of any issues that already arise from those discrepancies). And just like quality degrades when you zoom in, will a larger character have lousy facial features and other details when seen that large? You'll notice the monsters that appear this size are very simply done.

There are any number of problems that could pop up with these more complex designs. And if they're going to do them they should be done right - no copouts like the trenchcoats. The last thing I want to see is a new "Ball & Chain" set rolled out only to have to start calling it "limp sword." (Phallic subtexts notwithstanding.)

0k21 · May 2007

woh! they're actually adding more weapons and shields to the scrapper classes now? This really needs doing! I'm so sick of seeing only the broadsword, scimitar and unarmed all the time, would be nice if they gave customization for the shields and weapons to.

Anofalye · May 2007

Anything!

I would love a dual blades where in fact, both weapons are quite differents...but that is just me...and this is just today.

Honestly, I rather see them fix stone so it doesn't screw non-stoners, especially on the villain side where the imbalanced is actuented by the weaker buffs and the fact it is only a secondary, thereby the gap is incrementally stronger to close for villains.

Bfighter · May 2007

I believe the DEV's were working on Growth power since I8. I remember there was a bug where someone created a new toon on freedom. He was level 1 and he was 50ft tall. It was broadcasted and everyone ran down to see what was going on. It was weird. Some Level 50 toon Lackeyed the guy and then the 50ft beast went around smashing mobs. It was the coolest thing and Huge. A week later it happened again twice. So I believe its out there. Ill look for the screen shots.

BlackVoid · May 2007

It's to bad they can't put them all on the test server and let people try them all out...oh wait...why not do them all? We need a big change to the powers and to the stories to keep this MMO alive...I love CoX, but it is starting to get a bit on the dry side and needs a big boost in content. New power sets alone won't do it...maybe higher levels with new story content and revamping the lower level story arcs would be good too. IMHO

Amarsir · August 2007

And the word is out.

Dual Wield and Willpower in issue 11, both expected to go to Tanks, Scrappers, Brutes, and Stalkers.

Yeah, Willpower is going to be pretty boring. Word is mostly resists, some defense. All around a bit less damage mitigation than most tanker sets, but it should have excellent (the best?) mez protection and be very endurance-light.

And Dual Wield, allegedly it looks pretty cool. Supposed to be a very fast-attacking set. Which isn't radical for Katana and Claws users, but is a world of difference from what Tanks are used to.

Darkness690 · August 2007

Alright, they seem pretty cool, but where are my villain Epic AT's.

therain93 · August 2007

Originally posted by Amarsir

And the word is out.
Dual Wield and Willpower in issue 11, both expected to go to Tanks, Scrappers, Brutes, and Stalkers.
Yeah, Willpower is going to be pretty boring. Word is mostly resists, some defense. All around a bit less damage mitigation than most tanker sets, but it should have excellent (the best?) mez protection and be very endurance-light.
And Dual Wield, allegedly it looks pretty cool. Supposed to be a very fast-attacking set. Which isn't radical for Katana and Claws users, but is a world of difference from what Tanks are used to.

Sounds like they went with the fastest possible implementations, not that I'm faulting them considering somethng like shield defense would require just about redeveloping every single primary/secondary animation that would go along with it as well as potentially a solution for custom designing a shield (not to mention forcing toons to always use a shield in the costume shop).

therain93 · August 2007

Also, given i10 has been out the door....if i11 will hit closed beta soon, that still puts it surely in line for a 4th quarter release...not the projected year stated earlier....assuming these powers get put into i11 and not i12 for q1 2008.

Amarsir · August 2007

Originally posted by therain93
Sounds like they went with the fastest possible implementations, not that I'm faulting them considering somethng like shield defense would require just about redeveloping every single primary/secondary animation that would go along

Pretty close, yeah. Here's what Positron said:

Dual Blades was the winner of the "offensive powerset" poll. Psionic Weaponry was second, and Street Fighting was a distant third (but strangely had huge forum support in the discussions).
The winner of the "defensive powerset" poll was... Shields. And we did try to implement this for Issue 11. The only problem was to make Dual Blades as cool as possible, that left us without the time to get Shields done in time for the release. Shields is the single most complicated powerset we will ever do. The amount of animations it involves is staggering. But we DO KNOW you want it. It is on the list of things to get into the game!

Apparently Willpower was second best, so they went with that for a quick win. Furthermore it sounds like they are intentionally playing the "minimal animation" aspect of Willpower. A lot of people have long complained that it didn't fit concept for their characters to glow, which the other powersets require. So this is the most natural-looking set by design, and because it's easy that left more manpower for Dual Blades.

kaungst · September 2007

Willpower may look boring, but for people that are using the natuaral origin may like that their natural toon doesn't have a freaky glow!

Duel Blades looks to be a really nice set imo!

I can't wait to see them both on the test server, I want to to test those out. The only thing i am worried about is duel balde/shields. that is gonna be tricky on the animators i believe.

damian7 · September 2007

Originally posted by Darkness690

Alright, they seem pretty cool, but where are my villain Epic AT's.

and more villain zones. more villains contacts. something to do OTHER than the two choices you get early on.

bleh, if red side is the only game you bought (yaknow, because it WAS/IS marketed and sold as a 'separate/stand alone' game); then you'd have quit the first year. red side has been neglected like no mmo known to mankind.

damian7 · September 2007

Originally posted by kaungst

Willpower may look boring, but for people that are using the natuaral origin may like that their natural toon doesn't have a freaky glow!
Duel Blades looks to be a really nice set imo!

I can't wait to see them both on the test server, I want to to test those out. The only thing i am worried about is duel balde/shields. that is gonna be tricky on the animators i believe.

depends on the shields. they could use bucklers of some sort, or perhaps some buckler-sized shields on the upper arm area? or, only put shields in the same pri/sec as what dual blades are in?

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