Military drafts?

malak118 · May 2007

so I was wondering what everyones thoughts were on military drafts? This topic is not about the iraq occupation or exclusive to the united states. I would like to hear from anyone especially whose country has a draft or mandatory service. I spoke with several vietnam vets on the subject and would like to hear from some individuals who have other war perspectives. I do not like the idea pf folks joining the military and not wanting to serve. I do however like the idea of a draft becuase I feel that the people of the country will own the actions. Overall would you support one or not?

gpett · May 2007

No

I would never live in a country that required military service.

arvainis · May 2007

IMO Everyone should serve for a minimum of 2 years. Even a person with health problems could push papers at a desk or do some menial tasks. In times of peace they could work on government projects. Of course some people just will not be able to serve due to seriosu health issues and such and that's OK. It might make people a bit more proud of our country and look past its faults, plus you could actually get additional training in the military you could apply towards college when you get out, maybe have some better federal assistance for people to get into colleges. Also the 90% of the country would have some military background in case the S*&^^ ever really hits the fan here.

Gameloading · May 2007

I agree, I would never live in a country that requires military service either. there is no need for it.

//\//\oo · May 2007

Well, some EU countries (i.e. Germany, Austria and Switzerland) require a few years of military service or social service.

I don't agree with this, since people that are not apt for those kinds of specializations will not perform as well as they should.

The irony is that most professions already contribute to society as a whole: Doctors, physicists, mathematicians, computerscientists, engineers, etc. are already contributing to society through their professions; to force one of the aforementioned to partake in trivial social service (as they are forced in Germany) does not benefit society as well, since their skillsets are being allocated inefficiently.

roll1up · May 2007

I don't think anyone should be forced into military service, period. It doesn't make sense. Even ignoring the whole silly concept of "personal freedoms," you'll end up with armed forces that are at least 1/4 people who are conscripted against their will and won't give their best effort at serving. It just doesn't seem good for the people or the military of this country.

Phoenixs · May 2007

Here in Germany, and many other European countries like Norway you have mandatory military service, or social service instead of it.

I personally haven't thought to much about it, since by being born in Germany but growing up in Norway I gently avoided it

But one thing is clear, noone should be forced to fight a war against their will.

sctt888 · May 2007

Id serve 2 years in the military if the U.S.A would give me 2 million dollars. BTW what do people get out of joining the military? If the draft did start almost every one here would dook their diapers.

malak118 · May 2007

Originally posted by Phoenixs

Here in Germany, and many other European countries like Norway you have mandatory military service, or social service instead of it.

I personally haven't thought to much about it, since by being born in Germany but growing up in Norway I gently avoided it

But one thing is clear, noone should be forced to fight a war against their will.

Will is something to think about isnt it. Even if the u.s. started a draft I would only participate if i believed in the cause. As for the mandatory of two years service I dont know. I would think people would feel more part of their country. Anyone served in a type of service like this? I wonder what the popular sentiments are?

Mmoseaotter · May 2007

I would not fight for the government as it is now. If I had to fight a true threat to my families health then yes.

InfernalSoul · May 2007

Originally posted by sctt888

Id serve 2 years in the military if the U.S.A would give me 2 million dollars. BTW what do people get out of joining the military? If the draft did start almost every one here would dook their diapers.

Some people get a sense of honor, some learn to appreciate being a citizen in the country they live in, and some feel it is their duty to do it. Not trying to sound like a lame recruiting commercial, but I can understand where some people come from. Also, in countries where 2 year mando term services occur I can see how it puts maturity in people; it will also teach some people proper work habits.

Unknown · May 2007

The vast majority of people I know in or retired from the military tell me they prefer an all volunteer force, by far. In a conscript army you are fighting beside people who sometimes don't really want to be there, are unreliable, or lack dedication. A volunteer force is generally more reliable. It's the same reason soldiers joined the paratroopers in WWII. Many said they wanted to fight with the best, to know the best had their backs when things hit the fan.

gnomexxx · May 2007

I am kind of on the fence about this issue. I can see strong positives from both camps.

I do believe one thing to be pretty true though. If we had the draft I don't think we would be in Iraq right now.

malak118 · June 2007

Originally posted by gnomexxx

I am kind of on the fence about this issue. I can see strong positives from both camps.

I do believe one thing to be pretty true though. If we had the draft I don't think we would be in Iraq right now.

Yes the only positive I see is keeping military action more in check. Not getting on topic of the iraq occupation but just military action in general. The more I think about the more I understand how difficult it must be to be a solider. I dont think I could sign up and accept any assignment given down by the government. I guess my faith in the republic has dimminished greatly over the years.

gpett · June 2007

Originally posted by malak118

Originally posted by gnomexxx

I am kind of on the fence about this issue. I can see strong positives from both camps.

I do believe one thing to be pretty true though. If we had the draft I don't think we would be in Iraq right now.

Yes the only positive I see is keeping military action more in check. Not getting on topic of the iraq occupation but just military action in general. The more I think about the more I understand how difficult it must be to be a solider. I dont think I could sign up and accept any assignment given down by the government. I guess my faith in the republic has dimminished greatly over the years.

That is my reservation about military. The government chooses the fight not the soldier or citizen. I would be all for the military if the soldier was able to choose their assignments. I would be all for a home garrison to protect our homes and families.

I am completely against policing the world to instill our governments values in other cultures.

Fugnudz · June 2007

Originally posted by malak118

so I was wondering what everyones thoughts were on military drafts? This topic is not about the iraq occupation or exclusive to the united states. I would like to hear from anyone especially whose country has a draft or mandatory service. I spoke with several vietnam vets on the subject and would like to hear from some individuals who have other war perspectives. I do not like the idea pf folks joining the military and not wanting to serve. I do however like the idea of a draft becuase I feel that the people of the country will own the actions. Overall would you support one or not?

I would support a draft in extreme cases, such as the Chinese invading the continental U.S. with a land army, or something like that. In other words, a war at which the survival of the nation is clearly at stake.

Otherwise, I do not support a draft.

Arguably, we don't need a draft in nearly any situation. Sure, our standing Army is small, but our reserves are huge. The Army could grow from 700,000 to 4,000,000 in a month, just by calling up all the reserves.

Scriar · June 2007

i wouldn't care they turned me down already due to incorrect medical records

I doubt Id be drafted, wouldn't mind though, if the U.K goverment ever felt it nescescery to draft people again theres probably a very good and dire reason for it, so it wouldnt hurt to join and help out. But unless world war 3 happened and even then i doubt it would get to the point you need to get drafted.

wars are fault (sp?) more tactically now, they are mostly are done in small skirmishes than huge battles, if it ever got to the point where they fealt they would have to go in a head to head battle you would more than likey see a nuclear war rather than see them risk an all out head on fight akin to ww2

EggFtegg · June 2007

Originally posted by Fugnudz

I would support a draft in extreme cases, such as the Chinese invading the continental U.S. with a land army, or something like that. In other words, a war at which the survival of the nation is clearly at stake.
Otherwise, I do not support a draft.

I'd pretty much agree with this assessment, but probably only if people weren't signing up anyway, which they probably would be if the nation was under threat. In peace time, there's really minimal overall benefit to taking 2 years out of everyone's lives (or careers at least), by force. I wouldn't be opposed to having some basic military training as part of schooling, with other possible options for pacifists.

Bigdavo · June 2007

Originally posted by //\//\oo

Well, some EU countries (i.e. Germany, Austria and Switzerland) require a few years of military service or social service.
I don't agree with this, since people that are not apt for those kinds of specializations will not perform as well as they should.
The irony is that most professions already contribute to society as a whole: Doctors, physicists, mathematicians, computerscientists, engineers, etc. are already contributing to society through their professions; to force one of the aforementioned to partake in trivial social service (as they are forced in Germany) does not benefit society as well, since their skillsets are being allocated inefficiently.

The irony of your post is that my father (who is German) did the compulsory military service and is an engineer. Please learn a little more on the subject before you post about it. German compulsory military service is only 6 months - 1 year, its not exactly going to be detrimental to someones learning... not to mention the fact that some of the skills learnt during this can be quite valuable.

Aelfinn · June 2007

There is no military training whatsoever that cannot be applied elsewhere in life. If every teenager physically able to survive the course were required to go through boot camp or a similar program upon reaching adulthood, this country would be much better overall within the space of a single generation. The same may or may not be true for active service. War makes most who survive it stronger, physically and mentally, but does leave psychiactric... scars for lack of a better term

Personally, I'd never be picked for the draft. I was born with a hip defect that conflicts with my thighbones at certain angles. It makes running for any length of time physically impossible, I have to spend 4 to 5 times the energy my compatriots do to just to keep up, and I'm a big, heavy guy even in while in great shape. Walking is unaffected, and jogging only by a little bit. Hmm, come to think of it, that does make me good cannon fodder.

gpett · June 2007

Originally posted by Aelfinn

There is no military training whatsoever that cannot be applied elsewhere in life. If every teenager physically able to survive the course were required to go through boot camp or a similar program upon reaching adulthood, this country would be much better overall within the space of a single generation. The same may or may not be true for active service. War makes most who survive it stronger, physically and mentally, but does leave psychiactric... scars for lack of a better term

We need less people going through the "reeducation " and "brainwashing" process that happens during bootcamp.

You have to admit the whole idea behind bootcamp is to strip people of their ideas and thoughts while replacing those thoughts with a notion of a higher authority. I believe that is wrong. The military mindset is counterproductive to a sucesfull society. Each individual should look to themselves for the answers to what is right or wrong. The military only instills a system of subjugation to authority. That is the exact opposite to what this country needs.

Aelfinn · June 2007

Originally posted by gpett

Originally posted by Aelfinn

There is no military training whatsoever that cannot be applied elsewhere in life. If every teenager physically able to survive the course were required to go through boot camp or a similar program upon reaching adulthood, this country would be much better overall within the space of a single generation. The same may or may not be true for active service. War makes most who survive it stronger, physically and mentally, but does leave psychiactric... scars for lack of a better term

We need less people going through the "reeducation " and "brainwashing" process that happens during bootcamp.

You have to admit the whole idea behind bootcamp is to strip people of their ideas and thoughts while replacing those thoughts with a notion of a higher authority. I believe that is wrong. The military mindset is counterproductive to a sucesfull society. Each individual should look to themselves for the answers to what is right or wrong. The military only instills a system of subjugation to authority. That is the exact opposite to what this country needs.

Subjugation to authority is one of the things taught yes. It also teaches when and how to lead, and when not to follow orders. I for one do not see a problem with this. The primary things it teaches that are highly beneficial are self reliance, self confidence, and a myriad of ways to sharpen the mind, keep it alert and focused on the task at hand. Military training does not subvert independant thinking, it merely allows people to set it aside when appropriate. Bullets whizzing over your groups head is not an appropriate time for everyone to have their own plan.

InfernalSoul · June 2007

Originally posted by gpett

Originally posted by Aelfinn

There is no military training whatsoever that cannot be applied elsewhere in life. If every teenager physically able to survive the course were required to go through boot camp or a similar program upon reaching adulthood, this country would be much better overall within the space of a single generation. The same may or may not be true for active service. War makes most who survive it stronger, physically and mentally, but does leave psychiactric... scars for lack of a better term

We need less people going through the "reeducation " and "brainwashing" process that happens during bootcamp.

You have to admit the whole idea behind bootcamp is to strip people of their ideas and thoughts while replacing those thoughts with a notion of a higher authority. I believe that is wrong. The military mindset is counterproductive to a sucesfull society. Each individual should look to themselves for the answers to what is right or wrong. The military only instills a system of subjugation to authority. That is the exact opposite to what this country needs. Brain washed into what? Have you ever been in the military? Only weak-minded individuals who lack confidence in themselves and think only of the military as their ticket to grandeur or a place to "prove themselves" get brainwashed and the end result of that is that they learn a higher sense of priority and dedication to whatever it is they apply themselves to in the real world. People who are individuals who join and go through boot camp can adjust to the "shock factor" of it and than retain who they are after it is completed.

defenestrate · June 2007

Im opposed to the draft, but being an ex military man myself I believe that this country should do what most countries already do. And that is make it mandatory for males when they hit 18 to do 2 years in their military. One, it instills people with a sense of discipline and humility, I hate when I see younger people walking around like their the shit and talking all this crap but put them in a real life or death situation you know they would shit themselves. Two, it helps pay for college, Im currently attending college fully paid for by the army. I will have to pay for my senior year though, but its better to get only 1 years worth of college in debt than 4 years or more. Three, it instills a sense of national and personal pride knowing that you had the personal fortitude to pass basic training and were there when your country needed you. Now let me say Im not some gun ho republican who hasnt been to war and wont let my kids join the military.

Maybe join though when bush is out of office.

defenestrate · June 2007

Originally posted by gpett

Originally posted by Aelfinn

There is no military training whatsoever that cannot be applied elsewhere in life. If every teenager physically able to survive the course were required to go through boot camp or a similar program upon reaching adulthood, this country would be much better overall within the space of a single generation. The same may or may not be true for active service. War makes most who survive it stronger, physically and mentally, but does leave psychiactric... scars for lack of a better term

We need less people going through the "reeducation " and "brainwashing" process that happens during bootcamp.

You have to admit the whole idea behind bootcamp is to strip people of their ideas and thoughts while replacing those thoughts with a notion of a higher authority. I believe that is wrong. The military mindset is counterproductive to a sucesfull society. Each individual should look to themselves for the answers to what is right or wrong. The military only instills a system of subjugation to authority. That is the exact opposite to what this country needs. Have you ever been to boot camp? If not please dont try and form any intelligent arguements. What the drill sergeants at bootcamp do is break down a soldier in the beginning but then they build you back up. I mean if your a mindless peon who always does what he's told by mommy or daddy I could see how you might be brainwashed, but thats your own fault for not being able to see through the thin subterfuge the drill sergeants put up. People who think like you are the reason that 1/5 veterans cant find a job and end up homeless. Stop watching Full Metal jacket and do some real research if you want to make comments about "reeducation and brainwashing"

Umbrood · June 2007

I did not do military service, but in sweden it is mandatory, allthough not every young man has to do it, it used to be that almost every male did their military service, but the army in sweden has been cut down and now they only recruit like 20% each year of the available youngsters, and primarily from those who want to do it.

But had they really wanted me, they could have forced me and had I refused then I would go to jail.

There are however non-violent options, like firefighter or medic that never need to touch a weapon, available.

I kind of regret it though, say what you will but there are very few males in the age 18-20 that could not benefit from a little discipline and physical hardships.

I have met very few people that regretted their service.

The "killing" aside, I am quite sure there are a LOT of things that can be learned from getting away from home and not being able to rely on your parents.

Kids today are spoiled, fat and stupid, but mostly spoiled.

One year of mandatory social service, be it military or whatever would do wonders for any country.

Because given the choice, very few youngsters of today would hardly leave their couch, let alone work.

Least in the industrial world.

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