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How important are maps in your MMO?
zethcarn
Member UncommonPosts: 1,558
It's a great thing sometimes being able to know where everything is but it can also ruin an immersive feel. If someone can stare at a map for everything it becomes easy to ignore the environment and it's details.
Comments
I wont vote because my option aint their but i'd like the to show the main stuff but be able to write on it and create your own icons/pointers and waypoints to where things are.
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SWG - PrePub9 Jedi mastered all professions - June 26th 2003 > Nov 15th 2005
EVE Online - 24 million SP - May 6th 2003 > Early 2005
PlanetSide - BR20 CR5 - May 23rd 2003 > Sept 2003
EverQuest II didn't have ingame maps over the sewers under Quenos and I hated that because I would get lost and end up in an area with too tough mobs and die, this could be a game breaker to some people.
Getting lost in your game is not fun and I hope that future game developers understands this.
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TheCore
I've always had a "get in or get out" oppinion of in game maps.
If you're going to have a map for your game, make it a good one and stop doing it half-assed. It bothers me to no end when a developers puts a map in game with no features and only provides to most basic of viewpoints, why bother?
If you're not going to include a map, allow for basic waypointing via player control so the adventurer isn't constantly searching for the same places once it's been found.
Either way, do one or the other, going half way just speaks to laziness and poor game design.
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I have the complete opposite view on this. In Everquest 1, there were absolutely no maps from 2001-to 2004(I think thats correct, they were introduced with the Legacy Of Ykesha) and the game was scary as hell not knowing where you were or where you were headed. It made you pay attention to landmarks in the game, made you watch the clouds to see which way they were flowing(the clouds always pointed a certain direction), it made "knowing the area" a valuable skill because others who had not ventured there yet had no idea what they were getting themselves into or where they had to go and they would seek the assistance of older players for directions.
Countless times I would get lost in the forests and have to whip out my compass and try to find which way was what to try and get back to a familiar landmark so I could get back on the path. This sort of thing gives the game life and makes the player feel more immersed imo(if thats the feeling they want to get out of the game) mainly because I feel as if they take the game world in more. In the real world, its scary in a way when you are drivng somewhere new because you're not exactly sure what you're going to see or where you're going to turn but because you are doing it with no (map and radar, well unless you have GPS), you tend to look at everything more and create landmarks within your head making the area more memoriable within your brain.
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MMORPG = Mostly Men Online Roleplaying Girls
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Old school EQ1 didn't have an ingame map, and that's the way I like it.
Part of the joy and reward of playing in a persistent world should be focused around discovery and exploration. There should not be clear indicators about zone levels and dangerous areas or friendly paths. Trial and error and smart gameplay thru investigative skills are to be rewarded or punished if executed poorly. Knowledge is power and should be earned.
Hi! My name is paper. Nerf scissors, rock is fine.
MMORPG = Mostly Men Online Roleplaying Girls
http://www.MichaelLuckhardt.com
I'm an old school RPG gamer.... I remember when I played Bards Tale 1-3, Might and Magic 1-3 and 1-5 of the Wizardry series we had to draw our own maps on graph paper, and pay careful attention to direction just to navigate.
Of course, automapping was added to RPG's and MMORPG's carried the tradition forward. I know when I played VG and even LoTRO some of the maps were/are pretty vague w/o a lot of content, and at times I've felt aggravated by it. But in the end, having detailed maps with full coordinate systems makes it too easy to look up where to find things in a resource like Thotbott (for WOW) and then the questing really just becomes an exercise in execution..... just to level up as quick as I can...but I'm no longer really exploring the world....
I'll have to pass on voting for now....
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
-----------------------------
SWG - PrePub9 Jedi mastered all professions - June 26th 2003 > Nov 15th 2005
EVE Online - 24 million SP - May 6th 2003 > Early 2005
PlanetSide - BR20 CR5 - May 23rd 2003 > Sept 2003
I have the complete opposite view on this. In Everquest 1, there were absolutely no maps from 2001-to 2004(I think thats correct, they were introduced with the Legacy Of Ykesha) and the game was scary as hell not knowing where you were or where you were headed. It made you pay attention to landmarks in the game, made you watch the clouds to see which way they were flowing(the clouds always pointed a certain direction), it made "knowing the area" a valuable skill because others who had not ventured there yet had no idea what they were getting themselves into or where they had to go and they would seek the assistance of older players for directions.
Countless times I would get lost in the forests and have to whip out my compass and try to find which way was what to try and get back to a familiar landmark so I could get back on the path. This sort of thing gives the game life and makes the player feel more immersed imo(if thats the feeling they want to get out of the game) mainly because I feel as if they take the game world in more. In the real world, its scary in a way when you are drivng somewhere new because you're not exactly sure what you're going to see or where you're going to turn but because you are doing it with no (map and radar, well unless you have GPS), you tend to look at everything more and create landmarks within your head making the area more memoriable within your brain.Sounds to me that I would have quitted EverQuest in the first week or so but I prefer modern and player friendly games opposed to the stoneage games of the Ultima Online era.
Its a shame, since it would be a great feature for games where territory, and exploration are the main focus in the game.
I personally prefer maps, but not with too much detail. I liked SWG's map/waypoint system but without the POI's being marked on the map. It gave an element of exploration when you would find one.
Final Fantasy XI has an interesting take on maps: You have to get them. Maps for common and lower-level areas can be bought from vendors. Others have to be quested for. (They're "Key Items" which means they don't take up inventory slots and you can't trade/sell/drop them). Looking at the map is a menu selection, but if you haven't obtained the map for where you are, you only see a screen that says "No Map". The maps show the contours of the area and pick out a few interesting features, but a lot of important stuff is hidden. You can see yourself and your party members on the map, and mark and label spots. A couple of classes have the ability "wide scan" which allows you to see mobs on the map.
Chris Mattern
A map that shows everything. Not necessary from the beginning, you have to earn the knowledge, but it must show everything. I usually get lost in games and that just pisses me off. So a map that shows everything, but you have to find it before it shows on the map.
I mused this idea for a while and I think that making your own maps would be the best/most fun option.
Maybe if you didn't start the game with any maps, but you could pick up a Cartography skill, and survey and record your findings, then publish the map when you are finished and sell it to other players. Of course the maps would have the topographical layout of the land an probably cities, rivers and regions, plus any notes that the author made in certain areas or spots on the map to point out points of interest that they found. And when you have a map you can write on it, whether you have the Cartography skill or not, and maybe set nav points if you have a navigation skill. It might work.
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Personally i love the maps in MMOs however wish they were truly integrated as maps.
I dont want them to be scanners as in like SWG where players and npcs are shown. I would love them to be aquired through exploration into regions. So for instance (in and SWG2 sense):
That sort of thing, I think maps have a massive part to play both in immersion and exploration in an mmo. I have yet to see an mmo that implements it in a way that fully benefits these two aspects however. SWG came close except with the scanners etc. The waypoint additions on the map were brilliant and allowed you to truly customise you map with the tools supplied. I just with they were really fleshed out.
WoW and LOTRO maps are just horrible imo
Brilliant idea. Perhaps this skill like you said makes you actually survey the area. Make it an integral part of the game. If you want the benefit of having maps you should pay the maker a 'suscription' of sorts per week or something (small fees obviously but would be updated) or spend a good time making them yourselves.
I would hate for a feature like this simply to be plop a survey device here and see what happens etc. It really needs to be a time sink and something players can get their teeth into.
Would be great if all players had access to cartography via a periferal skill set then a class such as ranger had these skills automatically integrated into their skillset with an additional advances coming through getting to really know that area. Logging the fauna, the flora and lay of the land etc. Sort of like if you know whats around there a lot and find x,y,z and all the way back down to a,b,c you get little bonuses via survival skills and exploration etc.
The more detail the better. I would play a game for years if it let me just be a hiker and create maps of areas etc. I hoped Dark and Light would let me do that but alas, the game just failed so misserably past the drawing board.
A decent map is a MUST HAVE in my mmorpg. I will not play a game where the only thing I get is a compass. Fog of war is fine. I might not play a game for a few days or a week, and I'm not going to remember where everything is. I have to few hours to play to simply wander around lost.
Having to discover everything for the first time, however, is fine.
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I played EQ one for years and years. And would still end up lost in Freeport if I took a wrong turn or went to an area that my class didn't need to visit very often.
That was annoying as hell.
That said. Having maps has made the game flow much faster for me. I don't get lost in the towns and cities anymore. And exploring the countryside is still fun. And as long as I know wich way is north, I don't often get lost. Being able to make your own detailed maps would rock. If I remember correctly. The first maps that EQ put into game where very basic and the best maps were player made with notations and way points. If I remember correctly they were never works of art but still usefull.
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