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Auto-lock?! Well, this game sucks again.

fl_fubarfl_fubar Member Posts: 14
in Tabula Rasa
 

At first I had no interest in TR. The whole ‘shooting’ mechanic just seemed like another way to autolock onto people and spam abilities. Nothing different from the guns of World of Warcraft or the powers in City of Heroes. Then I saw some videos where you actually had to AIM with a rather small reticle, you could dodge into cover, you actually had to have some skills to hit people and not just do the “auto-target, stand there and spam spells” thing. It was perfect!

 Then I read this line in regards to shooting: “you can "lock" it in place with the TAB key, too”

 GODDAMIT! So once again it’s become just a matter of auto locking onto people and just holding down the fire button while you chase them around until they die. Yay.

 Interest gone again.

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Comments

  • BaselineBaseline Member Posts: 503
        I read something along the lines of there will be auto-lock, but it won't be as good as manual aiming. Like you won't be able to hit critical spots or something like that.
  • WurstmannWurstmann Member Posts: 24
    Well as far as it is an MMORPG and not an MMOFPS there should be an auto-lock feature. Making people hit more who aim without a lock seems to be a good solution.
  • Focus*BankaiFocus*Bankai Member Posts: 219
    thats why u should play huxley lol

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  • fl_fubarfl_fubar Member Posts: 14

     

    Originally posted by Wurstmann

    Well as far as it is an MMORPG and not an MMOFPS there should be an auto-lock feature. Making people hit more who aim without a lock seems to be a good solution.

      The problem with the auto-lock is that it's just a standard MMO with another skin now. There isn't any point moving, dodging. Sure you might want to get into cover, but not any more so than World of Warcraft. Plus at least in WoW you have to be facing them, so running around has some sort of point, but in TR you can aim in any direction and your character will flip to that direction once you fire (WoW you need to manually turn), so all I need to do is just target and click. I wonder if there will be a "target closest enemy" button too, because then I could just play this entire game with 3 buttons - target closest, tab to lock, click mouse and hold, then both me and the enemy stand there and see who wins. Why bother moving?

     There needs to be some reason to not just auto-lock all the time and completely circumvent the entire FPS game mechanic. The idea you posted "Making people hit more without a lock" would be a good idea. Perhaps they should allow people to use this up to  justlevel 10 to get people used to the mechanics.

     (edit - I'm all for a sticky box like Halo and I realise this game is not supposed to be 100% FPS, like Huxely and one very mature *ahem* user posted, but auto-lockon just seems way to extreme)



  • _Shadowmage_Shadowmage Member Posts: 1,459


    Tabula Rasa's combat is different. As Ilyana appears on the planet her AFS trainer runs her through the basics. Combat is in real-time, and movement, cover and range are extremely important and battlefield positioning will be critical. Indeed, at first glance, the game looks like a first-person shooter


    Gamespy Preview

    The first and most notable change that Tabula Rasa will bring to the MMO model is its emphasis on action in combat. While this is still a rules-based RPG with hit probabilities and powers that need to cool down before they can be used again, it seasons those more conventional ideas with an interface borrowed from the world of first-person shooters. While it takes a bit of getting used to, it's an easy enough system and one that the Call of Duty crowd can take to with ease.

    The game uses the standard WASD format to move and allows players to look around (and more importantly, aim) with the mouse. The left mouse button fires whatever weapon you have equipped, while the right mouse button activates whatever special power you've assigned. You can scroll through the weapons and powers very easily, so it's not much trouble to switch back and forth between multiple weapons and powers during combat. In fact, the cooldown on powers and the potential for guns to run out or ammo or overheat make it essential.

    In order to keep the lag-lamenting TBS fighters out there from running for the hills, we should point out that Tabula Rasa doesn't require pinpoint accuracy. If you simply get the reticle near an enemy, that's good enough for NCSoft. Your target will actually be a bit sticky as well, so if you stray from your target a bit, you'll still fire in their direction. Though the aiming is critical to selecting a target, whether or not you actually hit them is left up to your character's skill and the much maligned lady luck.

    Still, there's plenty of room for inventive tactics depending on the enemy you're fighting. Shield Drones, for instance, project a bubble of protection around themselves that also happens to protect any enemies that happen to be nearby. In order to get at the other enemies, you've got to take out the Drone from within the bubble

    IGN Preview

    The first thing we noticed (aside from the constant mouse-look) is that the game really is an open battlefield. Garriott says that even though the newbie base sites won't fall according to the program, he still wants "a feeling of danger, regardless" and we could definitely feel it. One of the first missions was taking back a base, and the fighting was hectic. With guns firing every which way, it was all we could do to toss out few shots while running for some sort of cover. Our reticule indicated with a color and direction whether we were taking full or partial damage and two bars in the lower left represented our shields and health. Having conquered the base, NPCs flooded in to take up residence and new missions became available.

    1Up Preview

    No offense to the staff writer - but I got so much more from reading the three previews I have linked. It sounds like these people attended the same preview.

  • IsaneIsane Member UncommonPosts: 2,630
    UHm and I was looking forward to a change is it really that bad, if their is a very good tactical edge to the gameplay.?

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  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    You don't have to use the auto-lock...

     

    Maybe you can get the devs to do the same for monsters, in order to auto-lock on a player, this player must have used the auto-lock feature in the last 30 seconds...that ain't much of a stretch as a feature to ask the devs to add and that might very well get answered...

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • DvolDvol Member Posts: 273
    I dont understand how you can judge something based on never playing something. Until i do get a chance to test this game ill hold off on judgement. Since the most recent update my intrest was sparked, and i had no intrest in this game based on its rocky history.
  • BlurrBlurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    There is a NOTABLE difference between firing and getting a hit from the auto lock, and firing and getting a hit with your good aim. Some guns will do similar amounts of damage whether your aim is good or bad. Other guns will do a tiny amount of damage if your aim is bad, and a HUGE amount of damage (to the point of sometimes one-shot-kills) if you crouch and take time to aim, even if the enemy is barreling down on you.

    Or so I hear. Maybe a developer said it in an interview

    "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    hm, never had much interest in this game since it appears to be PvE based so i can udnerstand you dissing it for missing something.

     

    but, umm autolock? maybe you should wait til beta. dont follow it anymore but dont close the door completely.

    sure i knew i would not like LOTRO cause it was pve based but I can at least say i gave it a fair shot for as few hrs. you sounding totally negative too me and dissing it for something minor. not focusing on pvp is a big thing. but autolock.... um, most RPGs always go that route lol. would be more FPS if it required skill to kill mobs. and really, the mobs probably just gonna stand still like the 1000 other mobs so it no challenge anyway to shoot something. they not gonna be smart like unreal tournament bots lol we're talking RPG mobs

     

    played tabula for a min at E3 seemed like it gonna be good but was so lost at training academy never found any mobs to fight :(

  • fl_fubarfl_fubar Member Posts: 14
    Originally posted by vajuras


    not focusing on pvp is a big thing. but autolock.... um, most RPGs always go that route lol.



    Exactly my point. It's now just another standard "press buttons to use skills, get xp, rinse repeat" that every other MMO is, which is what this game was supposed to be avoiding

    Originally posted by vajuras


    would be more FPS if it required skill to kill mobs. and really, the mobs probably just gonna stand still like the 1000 other mobs so it no challenge anyway to shoot something. they not gonna be smart like unreal tournament bots lol we're talking RPG mobs

    Indeed. It now raises the question, how is TR different from using the guns in WoW? From what I can tell, it isn't (in fact because of the facing issue and the access to just two skills at any time rather than the 20 or so hotkeyd in WoW, it seems like the guns in WoW require more skill)

     

    Originally posted by Blurr


    Other guns will do a tiny amount of damage if your aim is bad, and a HUGE amount of damage (to the point of sometimes one-shot-kills) if you crouch and take time to aim, even if the enemy is barreling down on you.

    I'm not sure what you mean. You say other guns will do a tiny amount of damage if your aim is bad, but that isn't an issue anymore. I just have to hit Tab and I have instant perfect aim, now it's just up to my stats.

  • _Shadowmage_Shadowmage Member Posts: 1,459

    You do know that you can turn off the sticky auto targeting thing right?

    The game doesnt force you to use it.

    And I guess whether its identical to wow depends on a few things
    - does the gun in WOW use ammunition - forcing you to reload?
    - Do the guns in WOW overheat/jam?
    - does cover make a difference to how much damage you take?
    - Does your accuracy decrease if you are moving?
    - Is it harder for your opponent to hit you if you are moving?
    - Does the gun in wow damage all critters - or do you need to change weapon depending on the opponent?

    So to me it sounds a lot different to a standard MMORPG and more like a FPS. When I played Guild Wars the bow just fired from my endless arrow supply that I didnt even have to carry.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,087
    Originally posted by _Shadowmage


    You do know that you can turn off the sticky auto targeting thing right?
    The game doesnt force you to use it.
    True, but if people who do use it do the same damage, you would be gimping yourself by not using it.



    I can see where this is actually an important issue to those following the game....

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  • fl_fubarfl_fubar Member Posts: 14
    Originally posted by _Shadowmage


    You do know that you can turn off the sticky auto targeting thing right?

    And put yourself at a huge disadvantage compared to everyone else? I'm going to assume 99% of players will use TAB the second they figure it out. Will you use it? If there was a button to clear jams instantly, would you use it? If there was a button to auto-heal, would you use it? Of course you would.

    Originally posted by _Shadowmage


    And I guess whether its identical to wow depends on a few things

    - does the gun in WOW use ammunition - forcing you to reload? Yes

    - Do the guns in WOW overheat/jam? No

    - does cover make a difference to how much damage you take? Yes, line of sight is needed

    - Does your accuracy decrease if you are moving? Yes, you cant shoot and move at the same time

    - Is it harder for your opponent to hit you if you are moving? No it uses an auto-lock system, just like TR - WHICH IS THE WHOLE POINT

    - Does the gun in wow damage all critters - or do you need to change weapon depending on the opponent? Sort of, you need to change your skills
    So to me it sounds a lot different to a standard MMORPG and more like a FPS. When I played Guild Wars the bow just fired from my endless arrow supply that I didnt even have to carry.

    Now, I'm not saying it's identical to WoW, so lets not go crazy comparing every little detail. What I am saying is that any complexity added by requiring the user to aim has been reduced to one simple task: Tab and hold mouse button down, sometimes right click. Dont bother moving, the character auto-rotates and it wont make you hard to hit, and you could find cover but then you cant shoot the other person either.

  • sparexsparex Member Posts: 5

    And I guess whether its identical to wow depends on a few things

    - does the gun in WOW use ammunition - forcing you to reload? Yes 

    - Do the guns in WOW overheat/jam? No

    - does cover make a difference to how much damage you take? Yes, line of sight is needed

    - Does your accuracy decrease if you are moving? Yes, you cant shoot and move at the same time

    - Is it harder for your opponent to hit you if you are moving? No it uses an auto-lock system, just like TR - WHICH IS THE WHOLE POINT

    - Does the gun in wow damage all critters - or do you need to change weapon depending on the opponent? Sort of, you need to change your skills
     to correct a few points from my WoW experience....



    -WoW guns/bows use ammo but I've had well over 2k ammo and reload never crossed my mind till after i fired 2k shots... in TR i think i'll need to Reload more often after say... 32 shots

    - No, WoW doesn't have overheat/Jam. Would be funny if they did though...

    - LoS is needed but doesn't affect damage amount.. and I can shoot mobs through rocks...

    - Accually Hunters can.. Run and pop instant skills.. thus kiting a mob, and there are times where i have fired a shot or 2 while on the run.. random/rare/glitch probally
  • fl_fubarfl_fubar Member Posts: 14

    Like I said, I realise that WoW is different to CoH which is different to Guild Wars which is different to Tabula Rasa. The games are not indentical, no surprise. My point was that the shooting mechanics (ie. the skill required to hit someone) is barely any more developed than any other MMO on the market.

    How do you shoot in TR? You hit tab and hold a mouse button.

    How do you defend? No point running or moving, auto-lock will fix that.

    Can you take cover? Yes, but I am going to go out on a limb and say this game does not have a cover system like Gears of War of Ghost Recon. I'm going to go ahead and assume the cover system consists of "standing behind a tree", meaning that both players auto-lock onto each other waiting for the other to pop up, which of course never happens. I can see why they are avoiding too much PVP now.

    OMG, I just thought, what if this game has sniper rifles. HAHA!

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    you're right bro I too am sick of all this Everquest cloning MMO industry is the most stagnant out of all the genres?

    well think bout it what FPS shooter doesnt have aimbots name me one lol. I know in BF2142 everytime someone in my clan got shot they darn near accused either lag or aimbots for their death lol.

    I do love my FPS' games but man i rather play those on consoles so i can avoid the aimbot hell

    I admit I am not happy with the direction the game is taking butr it never struck me as a risk taker anyways. I give them credit for going sci fi though and it looks like a great game for a PvE'er

     

    hoping Huxley will come out but im worried about that one. no news and its being done overseas its like a really bad sign

     

    dont forget in Age of Conan you can control the direction u shoot. checkout that one I guess

  • BlurrBlurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by fl_fubar Originally posted by Blurr


    Other guns will do a tiny amount of damage if your aim is bad, and a HUGE amount of damage (to the point of sometimes one-shot-kills) if you crouch and take time to aim, even if the enemy is barreling down on you.

    I'm not sure what you mean. You say other guns will do a tiny amount of damage if your aim is bad, but that isn't an issue anymore. I just have to hit Tab and I have instant perfect aim, now it's just up to my stats.



    Autolock does not equal aimbot.  Autolock will mean you hit the target, but the amount of damage still depends on accuracy.

    Let me revise what I was trying to say:

    Other guns will do a tiny amount of damage if your aim is bad (as in, your reticle isn't in the "target circle", even though you have the target locked), but they will do a HUGE amount of damage if you crouch and take time to aim (whether you're autolocked or not) and put your reticle in the little "target circle". In addition, autolock may take a couple of seconds to "zero in" on the target, leaving you exposed.

    It's my understanding that autolock is basically just a backup so that if you miss badly with your shot, it's not a total waste. It'll still hit the guy (for minimal damage) instead of going off into space and doing nothing.

    Or atleast, that's the way I understand it from what I've read/heard

    "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000

  • _Shadowmage_Shadowmage Member Posts: 1,459

    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by _Shadowmage You do know that you can turn off the sticky auto targeting thing right?
    The game doesnt force you to use it.
    True, but if people who do use it do the same damage, you would be gimping yourself by not using it.

    I can see where this is actually an important issue to those following the game....

    You are only gimping yourself if we are talking PvP. If its PvE who cares what other people are doing, or what equipment they have, or what gun they use - I will be doing what I have fun doing.

    Really if you are serious about PvP - you need to be playing a game where its a level playing field - like Guild Wars - so skill matters, or a proper FPS - so skill matters - otherwise whats the point?

  • fjornfjorn Member UncommonPosts: 57
    Originally posted by _Shadowmage


     

    Originally posted by Kyleran


    Originally posted by _Shadowmage
     
    You do know that you can turn off the sticky auto targeting thing right?

    The game doesnt force you to use it.



    True, but if people who do use it do the same damage, you would be gimping yourself by not using it.

     

    I can see where this is actually an important issue to those following the game....

     

    You are only gimping yourself if we are talking PvP. If its PvE who cares what other people are doing, or what equipment they have, or what gun they use - I will be doing what I have fun doing.

    Really if you are serious about PvP - you need to be playing a game where its a level playing field - like Guild Wars - so skill matters, or a proper FPS - so skill matters - otherwise whats the point?

    Actually if you are interrested in PvP, you should be playing Asheron's Call.
  • KasimirKasimir Member Posts: 197

    I am also sure that if you are this willing to complain about a game because of one pet problem, that is not even an issue considerng how the targetting in the game actually works, and this willing to start an argument about it before you have even tried it for five seconds.... Then they will probably be more than happy if you avoid TR and go someplace else.

    It seems a game has to be EXACTLY like you and only you want it to be, or its complete junk. Noone will ever make you completly happy, I hope you are aware of that? My suggestion is at least wait with the harsh words and big gestures until you have played it for two minutes... or stay away, period.

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  • SramotaSramota Member Posts: 756

    You might want to read up on the autolock too as it's an autostick to help X360's, not a full autolock.
    Reading GOOD. Judgemental ignorance BAD

    And, well, there's a huge difference between the WoW style of stand-still-and-fire-without-looking and TR... Go read up.

    Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
    It all sucked.

  • _Shadowmage_Shadowmage Member Posts: 1,459

    How does Xbox 360 come into anything? This is a PC only game as far as I know.

  • TriumvirateTriumvirate Member Posts: 156
    I think you either need to spend more time reading about the game, or playing it before you can make a call on whether or not it is the same as any other MMO (a hint, it isn't.)  It seems you would actually prefer to play an FPS, which is fine, I love a good FPS, but that isn't what TR is, or has ever claimed to be, so bashing it based on your own inaccurate assumptions (on multiple counts) just seems silly.
  • fl_fubarfl_fubar Member Posts: 14

    Originally posted by Sramota

    You might want to read up on the autolock too as it's an autostick to help X360's, not a full autolock.
    Reading GOOD. Judgemental ignorance BAD
    And, well, there's a huge difference between the WoW style of stand-still-and-fire-without-looking and TR... Go read up.


    Actually, no, there is both. Perhaps you should go read up.
    "The controls did feel a lot like playing an FPS, but without worrying about bunny hopping or too much aim. The target reticule "sticks" onto your target as long as you keep it mostly centered; you can "lock" it in place with the TAB key, too, and you won't lose your target as long as they are on your screen."
    As you can see from the article, it features both. The auto-stick is fine with me. This isn't an FPS, so pin point accuracy should not be needed. On the other hand, a key that voids all aiming allowing you to 'lock' it in place? No skill needed, big problem.
    Like I said in another thread though, I'm starting to think the MMORPG article is just poor writing. It either is not explaining how it works in full detail (along the lines of how fjorn was describing), or just has the facts plain wrong. I'm willing to wait until more facts come out before I rant anymore
    Originally posted by Kasimir

    I am also sure that if you are this willing to complain about a game because of one pet problem, that is not even an issue considerng how the targetting in the game actually works, and this willing to start an argument about it before you have even tried it for five seconds.... Then they will probably be more than happy if you avoid TR and go someplace else.
    HA, I knew someone would say that. Just for arguments sake then, if they added a button to instant heal so that you can never die, and people complained that it MIGHT unbalance the game a bit, would you still be going "OMG it's just one problem, ONE PROBLEM! Have you even PLAYED the game yet? NO! So then go play (X game) <Mod edit>".

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