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People need to get over the SWG disaster.
DruNk_DwArF2
Member UncommonPosts: 196
Hmm hmm...Well i really am SICK to my stomach about people to this day EVERY TIME SOE is mentioned i see the word SWG right after it,i really think you veterans need to move on it's really putting me to a point that i would not like to come to this site again,every single thread/topic i go to i see it,i don't get it that you can't accept the fact and move on with your life..The game was never "great" to begin with and yes it is worse then it was..I played it since release on and off,yes i was disappointed with what they did to it but ugh...i don't go around on EVERY post SOE is mentioned and bring up Star Wars Galaxies and what they did with it,if you really enjoyed star wars that much you'd still be playing it so yeah cry you're self to sleep every night cause they destroyed your precious game.Now get over it 
Glad i finally vented that.
MMORPG's Under my belt:UO,EQ1,EQ2,SWG,L2,COH,COV,WoW,AC2,Shadowbane,DAOC,FFXI,GW,D&D,V:SOH,LOTR:O
Comments
If you don't like it, don't read it. No one ever force you to read their opinion on public forum. You alone have the choice to not read it.
All that aside, until there is a good sand-box MMO that I would play, I will continue to post and voice my opinion on what happened hoping that there will be some developers willing to develop a sand-box MMO, and also that they will learn from the mistake that SOE made, and stay away from it.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
If you don't like it, don't read it. No one ever force you to read their opinion on public forum. You alone have the choice to not read it.
All that aside, until there is a good sand-box MMO that I would play, I will continue to post and voice my opinion on what happened hoping that there will be some developers willing to develop a sand-box MMO, and also that they will learn from the mistake that SOE made, and stay away from it. Well what might be a screw-up to you..Some people do say it was a good thing although i'd say the majority doesn't like the update but there is a bunch of people (obviously) that enjoy the NGE and CU..I don't feel the hate you people do for SOE as they never did anything to me and as i am enjoying EQ2 right now.
MMORPG's Under my belt:UO,EQ1,EQ2,SWG,L2,COH,COV,WoW,AC2,Shadowbane,DAOC,FFXI,GW,D&D,V:SOH,LOTR:O
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
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Erm No!
Why would we want to play a game that we loved when its changed completely? Its not the same game hense people quit and dont play it anymore.
Ofcourse people are going to be mentioning SWG in regards to SOE and will do probly for as long as SOE are in the mmo market. Its one of the single most disasterous decisions in mmo history and as such deserves to be at the focal point of discussions with anything SOE.
Thinking that people should just forget what happens is just naive. People lost a character that they invested over 2 years into. They bought a game, invested time and money in it then suddenly SOE change the rules of the game and call it something else. You think people would just forget that? Its like you become a professional football players then suddently they tell you that you now can pick up the ball, there are no nets anymore and you cant forward pass then they call it rugby. You love football, you spent your life loving football and developing as a player then suddently they tell you that you cant play it anymore, you have to play this other game instead. That memory will never leave you and should never leave that of the decision makers. You live and die by the decisions you make and SOE should always be remembered for their achievements and failures (yes they did some things great in SWG too!)
Well those people have a right to say they love it and i have no problem with listening to that. If they claim in their opinion SWG NGE is the greatest decision in the world id be happy with that, i differ in opinion but that doesnt make theirs wrong.
In a business perspective though it is fact it was an absolute disaster and ill argue that point until SWG rockets past its previous suscriber figures.
Maybe SOE should publish a credit card with credit to the Station Pass - I would get one since I zero out my cards every month then I would play the SOE games for free . ( its really the only way I would ,for now)
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
SWG and SOE when it began was setting the stage for domination of the MMO world. You had a powerful established developer and one of the most popular and well known IPs in the world. It was supposed to be a match made in heaven. However, it was not to be. From the very beginning the game was plagued with troubles. It's development staff took misstep after misstep, to the frustration of the players. In the end, what we're left with is a learning experience like no other. The only way to learn from this experience is to talk about it. We can learn from past mistakes and we can make the MMORPG world better. Through these forums and through the spread of ideas we can assure that no business would ever recreate SWG's past.
So, I for one will not get over the SWG disaster, and I never will. I wasn't even an active member when most of the later problems took place. I can still learn from those mistakes, and I can still discuss them and do my part as part of a whole to assure a better future for all MMORPG players. For if we ever 'get over it' and just forget about it, then it will happen again.
I think where Im confused, is that I never remember SWG being the goliath that people say that it was as far as MMO's go.
In fact, since the cu and nge ive heard more rantings and ravings then I ever did before it. almost like whatever happened to the game made it even more popular
sort of like when a sub-par rock star dies and becomes legend by people who never heard of them before. only in this case, people dont love SOE.. they hate them
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
SWG was - in comparative terms - hugely popular at launch and in the eighteen months what followed. Smedley himself proudly announced in 2004 that SWG was 'the second most popular game in the US'. (This was just after the launch of WoW and, like most of Smedley's statements, must not be taken at immediate face value).
In my own player experience, the game did seem hugely popular for a while. I was a member of a very large and active guild on Bria - the guild was called Fist of the Empire - and had an active player roll of over a hundred people. There were other Imperial guilds that had the same number or more members and, considering the huge battles in which we engaged, there were equivalent Rebel guilds of the same size and staying power. My server - admittedly one of the most popular - was crowded, from my own observation, not just every night but every day.
Until WoW really took off - leeching many of the younger, more gratification-oriented younger players - and causing the SOE development team try to emulate the style and appeal of WoW in a series of disaterous missteps that further eroded the player base, SWG was one of the successes of the industry.
Let's call it what it is, a chance to sling mud at SOE for mistakes they have made in the past. I hate to say it, but let's be perfectly honest, SWG was not an amazing game when it came out. Don't misunderstand, I loved the original game, but that doesn't mean it was great. Then a series of bad decisions were made and the game was changed from "decent and pretty fun" to "complete and utter garbage."
Honestly, since the Vanguard debacle can't we just switch over to talking about that for the next 30 years as we try to "improve" the industry.
Now a polite response to Triumvirate
I'd argue the point that bringing things up doesn't help people remember. You'd be shocked to find out how quickly people can just forget something and allow the same thing to happen again. It's were the old phrase comes from. If you don't learn from history then you're doomed to repeat it. People just didn't make up that to refer to their college history course. People need to be reminded in order to keep those lessons fresh in their minds. Vanguard made a lot of large mistakes, they weren't all the same ones that were made in SWG. We don't have to drop one torch to pickup another.
I do agree though that Developers are not so stupid that they would go and repeat the same mistakes again. That said, sometimes a developer can be a little blind as to what they are actually doing when being pushed by those people higher up in the corporate chain who are more concerned about immediate profit than the community. We need to change the business philosophy of MMOs as a whole. Right now they still seem to be of the mindset "Shove it out the door now and make it better later." We need to do discuss and riot to the point where the industry would not think of releasing an MMO in such a poor state of design. It's up to us, the community, to initiate change. Forums where we discuss why we are dissatisfied are the places where that sort change can happen.
I think fighting for industry change is a good thing. In a few years I believe that we'll look back on these days as a low point in MMO history (aside from a few noteworthy games). In a year or so I believe people will still be discussing SWG as an example of what not to do whenever a dev makes an announcement that seems to follow that pattern. I believe the followers of Star Trek Online are fighting that same battle now. Maybe comparisons to SWG will be enough to make the Devs of STO realize they are on the wrong track.
Finally, it has not been 30 years since SWG's release. SWG is still an active game with people trying to recruit others into it. It's perfectly legitimate for others to voice their discontent with the game and the business practices of SOE. It's what free speech is all about. If the game is worth playing then other people will play regardless of what the voices say on the forums. Take WoW for example. Anyway, we can argue about both Vanguard and SWG at the same time, but both are still current games. Until they've faded into the past you won't see any of the discussion die down.
But if they do get over it then they might actually have to get a life!
Imagine that.
It's tiring to see people still burning their SOE flags and never acknowledging the changes the company has made for the better. I'm not saying problems aren't still there, but they have really done an amazing job turning around EQ2 from it's release state.
As a side note to this conversation, I think the sad thing about the fighting for change is we all say we want it, but everyone is still too stuck on doing their same old thing that they don't want to give something new a chance. Specifically I refer to Tabula Rasa, which is trying out quite a bit of new stuff to a variety of systems, and yet I constantly hear people talking about how they won't play it because it's Sci-fi or because the combat is too different or there is instancing (to allow deeper story) and they don't want to play a game with a lot of instancing. These same people also cry about the lack of story telling in the typical MMO though, and they complain about the "hit and sit" combat that is present now. Just seems absurd.
SOE has been actively evolving with the MMO industry. Not every step is right, but if they continue on this path of learning then I honestly believe that some time in the future SOE will put together an MMORPG that will be a runaway success to rival WoW.
Of course they'll first need to learn what I believe to be the number one rule for MMORPGs "Don't release your game early." A bad launch is near impossible to recover from and will forever after hinder your game. Even if it's old news, bad press on the internet is tough to make disappear.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Just out of blind curiousity, how in the world did they mishandle EQ2?
Care to explain?
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
To go into a bit more depth... Changing systems from one a player is used to will always cause some unrest, even if it does end up improving the game. It also lends one to believe that another revamp may occur in the future. Players feel that their enjoyment is not important to the company and the effort they have made so far might suddenly be all wasted. Such is the life in an MMO I think, but I do think major game changing alterations are a bad idea. If you want to change a game that drastically they should do it incrementally and give people a chance to adjust.
Later they revamped crafting to make it more available to players. I knew a few people who left over this change.
The game has fairly high demands for computer specs, but doesn't really deliver all that much back. While the world looks very realistic the armor art and world art is lacking in my opinion, and I've seen that criticism voiced elsewhere. I know that when I personally saw a max level character in their best armor I did not want to level to to have to wear that.
Most of the changes are subjective to the players opinion. I personally think that SOE has improved EQ2 greatly since it's launch. However, I also believe that it was pushed out a bit early and that some of the criticisms are valid.
To add to it;
SOE has poor customer relations and SWG is used as the perfect example of why.
This will continue until such a time as to when SOE actually does provide good customer service, provides just compensation or discounts and engages the customers in building a better environment. Then and only then will the majority of the so-called "SOE haters" will dissipate.
So until then, there will be people, myself included who will warn others of SOE's business practices.
And although SOE gets the blame for SWG, let us not forget of Lucas Art's doings either.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Perception is Reality.
Also the game was released unfinished and the quest system was to complicated.
I agree it's easy to blame SOE "haters" and say they should just get over it, but that's just a small minded understading about the real issues. What I have seen is that most people feel like myself; SOE's poor ethical business hurts the whole industry and we are simply trying to make people aware of how and why.
The SWG fans were complaining NOT because of being oridinary joes, but they complained due to bugs that should be fix. Get your facts straight.
If design correctly and with enough content, any sand-box style game can and will beat your class/adventure bsed MMO. SWG was buggy, but it was one of the most unique in its mechanic, and that's why people remember fondly of it, and will still continue voice their dislike of the NGE/SOE/LA until another game can replace what the old SWG was.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)