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What is Pre-CU
Aseenus
Member UncommonPosts: 1,844
like o m g
i read about how good pre cu was about 10 times a day, because i dont play swg i dont know anything about it but i would really like to know wat pre cu is and how come the game sucks so bad now ?
i read about how good pre cu was about 10 times a day, because i dont play swg i dont know anything about it but i would really like to know wat pre cu is and how come the game sucks so bad now ?
Comments
Ofcourse at the time it was extremely buggy and people were screaming for an update.
Whether the game sucks or not is an opinion, definatly not mine, me and my guild are having a blast.
For more info go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
People used to stand at the starport petitioning sony to fix the massive amount of quest bugs and general exploits in the game, all the classes were unbalanced and little people cared about roleplay. They just wanted to grind jedi.
When sony updated the game there will still bugs, around 20% of the players left. There are now 9 classes, with a beast-master profession tree and a expertise for each (Helps diversity). 80% stayed in the game, most loving it.
The game has been receiving constant updates, sony's new dev team is doing a great job, they've been attracting heards of new players and 'veterans' back, most whiners havn't played it since the update.
oops, Strange thing is what i just wrong isn't bias atall. and you can still be a medic with a rifle.
People used to stand at the starport petitioning sony to fix the massive amount of quest bugs and general exploits in the game, all the classes were unbalanced and little people cared about roleplay. They just wanted to grind jedi. I never submitted a bug report because i honestly didnt think the bugs were worth petitioning, yeah there were like no quests, and there were a ton of exploits, and there were alot of bugs, i just had fun, and got owned all the time up until late Pre-CU, i had a blast though in my time in SWG PRE-CU (except for not haveing vehicles
When sony updated the game there will still bugs, around 20% of the players left. There are now 9 classes, with a beast-master profession tree and a expertise for each (Helps diversity). 80% stayed in the game, most loving it. doesnt the expertise tree resemble WoW's Talent trees?? Coincidance that SOE Changes the game from 30+ proffessions to 8 when WoW comes out (NOTE WoW has 8 Proffesions) Then SOE Brings back content from Pre-CU Calling it new (Beast master)
The game has been receiving constant updates, sony's new dev team is doing a great job, they've been attracting heards of new players and 'veterans' back, most whiners havn't played it since the update. not much different since back in pre-cu, with every update comes more bugs.
oops, Strange thing is what i just wrong isn't bias atall. and you can still be a medic with a rifle. how bout a pistol?? Or a rifle?? or hey can they use a pike or sword?? i mean without completely sucking in any type of combat.
that should fill in all the cracks in your post
EDIT: i over highlighted somethin, just changed it bak
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Pre-cu is what I as game banned from for forum roleplaying . It was the best . I was able to make a name for myself without using a weapon . My Roleplaying continues to this day althou my ban was lifted last Oct. ,
The NGE is still unplayable despite SOE's Lame effort to restore some familiar features from the past. It will never be enough .... Pre-CU or Shut them down , shut them all down.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
In short: Pre-CU. Skill based (no levels, no classes) sandbox MMO. Jedi skill took many months to complete.
NGE, WoW clone.
"people used to stand in starports petitioning sony to fix the massive amount of quest bugs..."? It sounds like it was riots all the time. Was this during the pre cu era? I dont recognize myself here. Actually i have never seen this myself for the 9 months i played the game. And what about the "80% stayed in the game, most loving it"? Do you mean that 8 out of 10 people who played swg before NGE loved it? Do you base this on what Julio Torres (LA) said about 80% of the people playing NGE is veterans from the time before nge or something like that. Its not the same thing as 80% of the veterans stayed.
To the OP: The classic version (pre cu), before the two big revamps (Cu and NGE) was build upon a vison of Raph Koster. The slogan back then was "live the greatest star wars saga ever told - yours" (compared to the NGE slogan "where the movies left off, your adventure begins"). The idea with swg was that you didnt have to be a hero, saving the galaxy. You could be and do whatever you wanted to. Koster is a big fan of "sandboxes", witch means you as player are given a virtual place and toys you can use (or choose not to use) to play the game the way you want, using your own creativity and visions, rather than do quests and follow stories the game developer have pre-created for you. Because of the sandbox design, most services in game was handled by other players instead of npc´s (or both by palyers and npc´s). Dont confuse this to second life - swg was still a game, where you had to select skills and grind them out, loot stuff and running quests and missions, etc. Swg felt very alive, mature and varying becasue it attracted all kind of people and there was so much to do except combat and questing (you didnt had to do combat at all to have meaningful stuff to do). This game was pretty unique, and thats why so many of us still are mad - it was one of its kind, we loved it, and there is nothing to replace it with. You can read about swg´s history on wikipedia, as linked above. I think its the most objective and correct information you can find.
SOE said the pre-NGE experience was the 'owen-lars' experience (my old forum name by the way lol). They say Post NGE its the iconic star wars gaming experience. With these comments they were obviously just trying to get people on board and justify the changes.
Pre-CU/NGE:
A time in the game with choice and freedom. You could be an interior designer, a professional hunter, a merchant in every sense of the word!, a to the extreme imperial or rebel, you could be a famous dancer in your home town where people would travel just to see you. But what made it special was that you could do it all YOUR way and how you wanted.
So what if you wanted to be a ranger with an axe, you could. So what if you wanted to be a commando weaponsmith, you could.
Yes there were many issues but i dont think anyone here in this forum specifically made for refugees of SWG (from these changes) would argue over spending the resources and investment they did on the NGE in fixing the issues with the core game!
God it was such a good time back then. I was a ranger, the weakest and most broken profession of the lot but that still didnt stop me just loving every second of the game waiting for our revamp/completion. And i would still be playing now if ranger was fixed and in. As soon as i was forced down a specific path i was alienated from the game i love. I didnt feel unique anymore, like my player was just 54th of 3000 etc. Its a tottally different game now and one that the vast majority simply do not want to play.
Let's not go into revisionist history.
The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of players, from hardcore PvP'ers to crafters, simply wanted the broken things fixed. Just about every profession had a sticky in their respective forum listing the broken abilities in their skillsets - attacks that were supposed to inflict status effects that didn't, attacks with lower damage modifiers than supposedly weaker attacks, etc. For crafters there were concerns with the limited utility of most of their creations - as an armorsmith I could make more than half a dozen types of armor but only one or two were actually desirable to players both old and new.
SOE was doing a decent job balancing out the various professions from publish to publish when they decided to cease the smaller updates and instead do one large update to address all of the concerns. This was actually welcomed at first, because one of the unbalancing things in the game was that certain professions were less broken than others. This massive update became known as the "combat upgrade" and/or "combat rebalance". For roughly six months any concerns about broken abilities were met with SOE reps on the forums telling us "wait for the combat upgrade".
I was heavily involved in the SWG community then - I had an easy job and spent three to four hours a day at work actively posting on the forums (I've got the five-figure post count to prove it) and I'd spend hours a day after work primarily socializing in-game. I knew the movers and shakers on two shards, from the most feared PvP'ers to the best crafters. I can tell you that it wasn't a sweeping update people wanted, it was simply one major pass through all of the professions to fix the things that didn't work. There was a feeling that SWG could be a great game if only SOE could fix the bugs.
Then WoW happened. Almost overnight the scope of the combat upgrade changed from giving us a bug-free SWG to making it more like WoW. Things that had never been asked for by players got pushed into the game. People did leave in droves - it may not have been the majority, but anyone who tells you the CU didn't cause a very noticable drop in player population is blowing smoke up your rear.
Sorry for the long post, but lately I've been nostalgic for SWG. Someone above had the absolute best summary of what pre-CU SWG was; a skill-based sandbox MMO. Like EVE, the game was what the players made of it. Players that came in expecting spoon-fed content were disappointed. Players with creativity and social skills thrived.
The fact of the matter is this.
No matter how bad all those "currently playing vets" say pre-CU was, they all hung around and played it.
That speaks volumes to me
amen brother
Nobody is perfect, it's the same with games.
Mohammed Ali, got knocked on his ass by Joe Frazier but was still undoubtedly the greatest of all time.
Lets start with the good on this flame baiting topic. Pre-Cu was a deep dynamic game. Its best part according to most reviewers and myself was the ingame economy. It is one of the few games that allowed almost total player control of the games economy. It allowed a different style of play for people to engage in. The games community that sprung up around this economy was another great feature. Besides the obvious enjoyment you got from being part of a regular group of players, it was more unique in not everyone was the same playstyle as most communities brought in those who where part of the crafting end game.
I enjoyed the combat system and skill based game model they employeed. It truly allowed you to be a unique Star Wars character living in a virtual Star Wars world. You could have a true avatar. This system allowed you to freely change your character and grow and develop them. Obviously, as some point out there was some flaws to pre-cu. Massive buffs, armor choices, stacking templates, unhealable mind pool and lack of quality content. However, I'd take all the flaws of the pre-cu model over the NGE game.
I won't get drawn into the game sucks now argument. I just post what is wrong with it and why I don't play it. First is it ruined the games player based economy. People will argue that crafting is still important in the game, but in all honesty it plays absolutely no roll to the casual player. You don't need crafters now and you don't have to replace gear. This is the standard model for most MMO's on the market today. It cost them one of my accounts which was a dedicated crafter. He became absolutely useless. Crafters in the NGE simply fill the roll of game Placed NPC Vendors. They don't for the most part make superior items then loot drops and don't have much control over the economics of crafting. They are just not fun to play anymore.
The NGE basically took away a unique part of the game. That change killed many communities. Without the crafters it became another game where your only value to a guild was in combat. Either you could pvp or you where useless. Alot of players where crafters and not good at PvP. They all left. Including my crafter account as he was no longer needed or useful at all.
The second account I closed was my PvP/PvE account. This primary account was a day 1 vet (day 2 if you count the logon server issue). I bought and paid for a game and paid a monthly fee that I'd be playing a skill based star wars mmo. The NGE removed that system and replaced it with a combat model that was not appealing nor functional. To this date the model they promised never was delivered. A true FPS model isn't a turn off. A broken one is. A level based star wars game could work. This one simply doesn't. You can not agree with the assessment of the NGE combat if you want. I simply state that they broke the combat system and it to this day doesn't work.
As I indicated about the pre-cu combat system it wasn't perfect, but it was acceptable for me. At least it was a known commodity. To take it out and replace it with another busted combat system? That was my last straw on ever playing swg again. I had about all I could stomach of promised combat improvements and game changing tweaks to the games professions. It seemed every time you went into a profession SOE started to muddle with why you choose the profession in the first place. The combat just wasn't fun anymore.
Then you take the actual star wars content. Look pre-cu was no model of continuality. It had some things that really bothered me as a Star Wars fan, alot of it centered around Jedi, but the NGE? Its not even the same universe Lucas created. It has Star Wars content in it for sure, but none of the stories make sense. They took a jedi problem and made the whole game jedi centric. I about quit the pre-cu 5 times over jedi warring in public. To see it now you'd think they where fighting the clone wars. Add in all the content from EP 1-3 and you think what the hell is going on? Did I buy galaxies divided or some KOTR game?
Reguardless of the bugs, people played it because it was the most unique game for its time and you could be anything you wanted to be, do anything you wanted to, in the star wars universe.
Honestly, I couldn't have said it any better than the poster above.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
What is Pre CU?
Check out this post.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/100499
What I liked about SWG Pre-Cu is that the game was about socialization and adventuring and not about loot. Almost every item in the game was craftable. This created a interdendance amoung proffessions. Also because everything was craftable elite equipment was not difficult to aquire. This then allowed you to focus on the game. Adventuring, exlporing, competing. At the end of your gaming session you had the socialization and adventuring etc as your reward.
Not having a loot based MMO encouraged socialization and interdepedance. You did not have to kill loot repeat, to aquire the best stuff in the game to compete.
Many MMO's out there make you loot constantly to keep you playing the game. Every week newer and better equipment is added to the game. If you want the best stuff to be able to compete u have to keep playing.
I don't know how people find that rewarding. If is so simple minded.
At the end of their gaming session (kill, loot repeat for hrs on end) their attitude is look at me. I have all the best stuff and then go on to make fun of people that do not have elite stuff and refer to them as noobs. What a simple minded mentality.
SWG Pre-CU
-Easy to aquire elite items and compete as everything was craftable.
-Decay on use of items maintained a interdepence and socialization amoung proffessions.
-End of gaming experience - adventuring, socialization, acomplisments.
Loot Based MMO's
-Extremely Difficult to aquire elite items allowing you to compete.
-To maintain socialization (Spaming Ubber Such and such loot for sale. Best prices here) better equipment is continuously added to the loot table.
-End of gaming experience - Look at me I got such and such equipment.
I tried to balance my opinion, but since you didn't do the same i'll also create a bias reason.
When sony updated the game there will still bugs, around 20% of the players left. There are now 9 classes, with a beast-master profession tree and a expertise for each (Helps diversity). 80% stayed in the game, most loving it.
Sorry, That is not a true statement. 80% of the paying customers did not stay in the game when the NGE was released, 80% of the people that stayed in the game were at the time current players. So what in effect that means is the NGE did not generate the massive numbers anticipated when released. that is a big difference, what it does not mean is there was only a 20% attrition post NGE.
ROFL and I'm on that Wikipedia, citation 42!
/flex my first wiki, I feel special hahaha.
I tried to balance my opinion, but since you didn't do the same i'll also create a bias reason. Everyones biased simple fact..
People used to stand at the starport petitioning sony to fix the massive amount of quest bugs and general exploits in the game, all the classes were unbalanced and little people cared about roleplay. They just wanted to grind jedi.
I never saw this and even in beta we told them about the same bugs that plague SWG still to this day. Line of sight bugs, none working specials, graphical gliches, rubber banding, player scarecrowing, broken player quest the list is long.
When sony updated the game there will still bugs, around 20% of the players left. There are now 9 classes, with a beast-master profession tree and a expertise for each (Helps diversity). 80% stayed in the game, most loving it.
Um well on my server 80% + left and i was in there over the weekend and saw 3 people. Populations vary server to server. 9 classes?? Haha there isnt a unique feature among those 9 unless you see the talent system stolen and from wow diversity. LOL my god you must really hate to be challenged in the games you choose to play. Also the most loving it part is personal opinion as well as how much population left.
The game has been receiving constant updates, sony's new dev team is doing a great job, they've been attracting heards of new players and 'veterans' back, most whiners havn't played it since the update.
Its getting constant updates with precu ideas and elements. Beast master has been the closest to precu as far as i can tell. It actually has some complexity to it. My opinion on it is still up atm cause im still testing it out for myself. Only reason it attracted me back was to see for myself if most of the fanbois are full of it or just paid to be so happy. SWG was never perfect but at least in precu i had a guild and a full friends list as well as a server. We were to busy having fun to bitch and moan about bugs. The current forums are full of whines and complaints just the same if not more than back then. Heck us beta testers did predict how bad things would be if things got ignored. They did just that ignore the ones who actually wanted SWG to succeed. Problem with SWG is it has gotten to far from its original core and has become just another MMO that plays like crap and tries to be elfs in space.
Bugs ive allready incountered so far since i resubbed to test-
1- Rubber banding
2- Class abilities disapearing
3- Graphical errors and constant clipping
4- None responsive Mobs no argo at all
5- Benny Hill poke poke fest
6- Empty server- At least mine is...
oops, Strange thing is what i just wrong isn't bias atall. and you can still be a medic with a rifle.
Dont kid yourself everyone is biased based on thier opinions of what they like. No one can be totally unbiased about giving their opinions. Everyone has a agenda be it to praise crap upgrade or callout players like you who would play anything star wars even if it used the Barbie in space engine. At least i can say im trying it can still its faults but this time i still dont enjoy it.
It has improved since launch cause it hit as low as it could so the only way is up. I think if they would drop the lame FPS wanna be combat and went back to the core gameplay would help alot. See most of us want to be challenged and dont want to play another clone game based on WoW. But again SOE didnt listen when people asked for fixes an content. They changed the core game way too much to the protest of the MAJORITY of players. SWG had its day and was loved by many, now its on lif support in need of a 3rd revamp..Remember third times a charm.
People used to stand at the starport petitioning sony to fix the massive amount of quest bugs and general exploits in the game, all the classes were unbalanced and little people cared about roleplay. They just wanted to grind jedi.
When sony updated the game there will still bugs, around 20% of the players left. There are now 9 classes, with a beast-master profession tree and a expertise for each (Helps diversity). 80% stayed in the game, most loving it.
The game has been receiving constant updates, sony's new dev team is doing a great job, they've been attracting heards of new players and 'veterans' back, most whiners havn't played it since the update.
oops, Strange thing is what i just wrong isn't bias atall. and you can still be a medic with a rifle.
Coming from a 16 year old gamer with a screen name of owned you. Means nothing.
People used to stand at the starport petitioning sony to fix the massive amount of quest bugs and general exploits in the game, all the classes were unbalanced and little people cared about roleplay. They just wanted to grind jedi.
When sony updated the game there will still bugs, around 20% of the players left. There are now 9 classes, with a beast-master profession tree and a expertise for each (Helps diversity). 80% stayed in the game, most loving it.
The game has been receiving constant updates, sony's new dev team is doing a great job, they've been attracting heards of new players and 'veterans' back, most whiners havn't played it since the update.
oops, Strange thing is what i just wrong isn't bias atall. and you can still be a medic with a rifle.
I believe that most of what you said was inaccurate.
In the three years I played - Bria server - i never saw a Starport crowd petitioning Sony to fix 'the massive amount of quest bugs and general exploits'. Never. Not once in three years.
Far more than 20% left the game at NGE. Conservative estimates place the figure at 60%. Those who remain may or may not love the game but subscriber figures have certainly not risen significantly. There are many many posts on these forums - and on others, ex[pressing concern at the apparenty emptiness of many servers during prime game time.
The game is being updated and the Dev Team are indeed implementing many bchanges - like reintroducing the Creature hanlder profession and combat trees. However, as many vets point out, these are not new changes, they are features that were in the game two years ago and were then arbitrarily removed.
I agree, and in contrast I did see massive amounts of people protest the CU and NGE.
Actually what you ment to put is that 80% of the players that play now are Vets of the Pre-CU but 80% of 100 people still means no population, its like a political speech, "9/10 of the people of Sandwhich City Support me so should you" Sandwich city Pop:10 all relitives
When I started playing, I was able to try many different skills without rerolling my character.
I became a Master Doctor at one point. I would go to a medical center and there would be plenty of activity there. So far, I haven't seen the same scenario in the current game.
I became Master Dancer, Image Designer, and Musician at various points. I could go to cantina's or the tents near them and find work and socialization. The cantina's still have activity it seems at least.
I became a Master Ranger and trained in Pistols as well. I hear from many that Ranger was a weak class, but I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I left the game within a few days of the CU going live and only recently came back.
Now I am a Bounty Hunter and my only flexability is within the context of being a Bounty Hunter (with the recent Creature Handler stuff as well). It seems quite limiting when compared to what it used to be. Additionally, the recent state of the game seems to encourage, or at least not discourage, solo play. Pre-CU, people were very motivated to learn about the other players who shared their galaxy. As a Ranger, I used to travel with a Master Doctor on any number of fun adventures. The social aspect seemed more important then a level grind or anything like that.
So, that is just my "rose-colored glasses" view of the past. The game today is not horrible if you think of it as unrelated to the game pre-CU. It isn't neccessarily great either though. For me, it really is a different game and as long as I keep the two versions of the game separate in my mind, I can enjoy the current version.
For what it's worth, I am not an NGE-hater or whatever level may seem comfortable. I personally enjoyed pre-CU more then any other MMO I have played since and am trying to point out the differences I see between the two.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
The best answer to your question is probabally the short simple answers. What did the original game or the Pre Cu have that the current game does not have. Here are the simple bullet points.
Nonlinear gameplay. The player was free to level in a fashion they preferred. There were no requirements of go here, and do this. That allowed the player to tailor the gameing experience to their desire. All paths to completing your character were valid aslong as you gained the required experience. How you got that experience was completely up to the player. You had choices.
Character building. Perhaps the most complex character building system to date. There were millions of options when you do the math. Further more the character was never a set commodity. The variables were fantastic to say the least. You had a vast array of ways to define youself in the world. You had your skill box choices which were massive, and the ability to change them to fit your whim. Then you had the equipment you used. Which once again was highly varied. Finally you had a massive skill selection. The players had dozens of skills and moves to use. All told each character was unique and always changeing. Finally you could spend years building a character, and never be quite finished. There was always just a little bit more to do to refine your character.
The combat was skill based. The system was very complex, and involved a great deal of thinking for the most part. You had to use the right tools for the job and take into account many variables. Simply put it was a very cerebral gameing experience, and the world systems only made it more so. You did not need to be smart to do well in the game, but you did need to be smart to be among the best in whatever you did.
The community was built upon interdependency. Everyone had a role, and had to rely on other players to make for the best experience. You could be self reliant, but the system rewarded you for interacting with fellow players. The community was a tight knit family with strong relationships. Many refugees to this day miss their community it was something real. There were communal values, and things like dynamic economy, grudges, and reputation flowed from this. How you were doing really mattered to others. Since people were rewarded for interacting with each other the atmosphere was very friendly. Even bitter enemies could have respect.
Varied gameplay was a major aspect of the game. There were just so many ways to play not only within combat but outside of it that could match your tastes at that moment. Crafting, Tradeing, Exploreing, Customer service, Training, Collecting. No matter what you fealt like at the time you had you could find something fulfilling to do, and it all mattered.
Thats the basics really.
I've read the thread, and the description of what the pre-CU was has been pretty much laid out.
What the original game did was create a community, and that's what is most painfully missing from the current phase of the NGE. I participated in the vet trial a month back, and while the world was still there, and the gameplay was sort of still there, the community that the original SWG fostered was irreparably destroyed by the NGE. The CU didn't quite do it, but it made a huge dent in it. The NGE finished it off.
The community was why I (and many other people) put up with the bugs, with the imbalances (which were, as someone pointed out above, more often than not because some professions were less broken than others), with the inherent problem that the desires of PvP players in gameplay directly conflict with the desires of PvE players, and the developers have to deal with both groups.
What made the community great was that it brought Star Wars fans together and you had this geeky communal experience that was endlessly entertaining, and it was not dependent on the developers to make it that way. Then through SOE/LA's intense desire to be just like WoW without doing the two things that WoW most had going for it...relatively bug-free play and responsive customer service...they destroyed the community. WoW's community is NOTHING like the SWG pre-CU community. There's no interdependency like SWGs, not when you can solo your way to the top in WoW. SWG early on, to attempt to solo anything outside of the yard trash mobs around the cities was to invite death. You really DID need to group up to do things, and that's what made it fun. Futhermore, you didn't have to be combat oriented to have fun.
But then SOE decided that they knew more about what your fun was than you did, and, well, they've got the subscription numbers to show just how right they were in taking that tack.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi