How is the combat?

Xion1985 · June 2007

I have played tons of mmo's and I'm a huge fan of LOTR, i'm getting more and more into the train of thought this game might be something I could spend playing for a year maybe more, but I've been watching youtube videos and from what I can tell the combat looks very slow, i'm not talking about the responses of character movements/actions, more like it seems almost like WoW's combat but even slower. So I'm just wondering is the combat at a quicker pace then it looks. I actually enjoyed WoW quite a bit, so if it's to par with WoW's that would be good enough for me probably. Just hoping a few experianced players could tell me what the combat feels like is it intense at all, or just like click and wait till they die or you die? Are there any classes like the rogue on wow that takes clear advantage of being very active and on your toes during combat?

Another question while I'm at it, how many spells and abilities do the classes have? i'm not sure of the level on the videos ive seen but it seems like the most action keys i've seen is about 10 and that seems kinda low unless the character is maybe in the mid teens. I really dont like the asian free mmo settings where you get like 1 move every 5-10 levels and use that almost exclusively. I think WoW kind of had that portion right by the time your level 20ish your talents are shaping what abilities your using and you already have a good selection to choose from.

Anyways, I havent had a chance to play this game at all in person, but being a fan of the genre and a huge fan of the books/movies and most things tolkien, I am really considering jumping back into P2P MMORPG's just for this one.

Thanks for your help it's my day off so i'll be on mmorpg.com most of the day probably.

harrisond · June 2007

if your a fan of the books and movies you love this game, i did being a fan, the combat is about level with wow, and it does get intense when your in a dungeon with 5 other players and you get attacked by 4 elites and there spells heals, then the big fellowship maneouver. at level 35 i got 18 skill i think. not including my fast travels and group moves.

opps meant including fast and group skills.**

deplorable · June 2007

When you level up (i'll start from 4, some classes don't get anything at 3).

4 - main skill

5 - passive (in the case of level 5 - musical instruments)

6 - main

and so on.... you also get abilites from class quests.

However, they're spending time fixing a class per content patch (this time it's the champion) and the amount of talents do decrease especially in the late 30's.

some of the classes, like champion, require a build up process (fervour) before you can use skills you have (by level 20 you'll have around 23 passive/non passive abilities).

Ministrels, well you have to play tier 1 ballad, to play a tier 2 ballad, inorder to play a tier 3.... etc

Enemy levels (10) - enemy ranks within enemy levels (7) - page 63 of the manual

plus you have your fellowship feats.

The rogue class is the Burglar which is termed as the "debuffer" in the manual, but also unlocks fellowship feats more often. possibly the most difficult class to solo with, works better in a group than alone.

as the manual states "Burglars are not formidable in one-on-one combat and must exercise great caution when adventuring alone"

most of the time, it's hit any of the buttons until more show up that you can use.. and bash away

Ruthgar · June 2007

I think it depends on the class that you play. Playing a Champion or Hunter will give you more options than a Captain.

It is usally click, click, wait, click, click, wait, etc.

I think WoW has more clicking depending on the class too (Rogues vs Casters). I only played casters in WoW and miss the constant casting. I like LOTRO better than WoW, but solo combat is boring. However, group combat is more exciting with conjunctions.

fiontar · June 2007

First, combat speed. It depends on the level disparity between you and your foe. I find that while following a normal progression through the quests, a lot of mobs are lower level than me at the time I'm doing the quest and those foes go down fairly quickly. If you push the envelope and fight mobs your level or higher, combat can take a while, but personally I like the challange and feeling I've actually accomplished something.

XP scales up and down dramatically with relative level, for someone wanting to grind a little XP, usually fighting mobs at level or a bit higher is most efficient, even though the individual battles last longer.

Downtime is very managable in this game. It's not very long to begin with, but there are also item stats that increase your morale or power regeneration out of combat. There is food of course, but after a hard, draining fight, I usually just swap to a weapon and cloak that offer high out of combat regen to help speed up the recovery.

Combat (class) skills start out very basic and to make an impression of combat based on the first ten levels would be a mistake. You basically gain an active skill every even level (and passive skills on most odd levels) and most classes I've played have become more fun to play and more involved as they have progressed. Most classes develop skill lines that are reactionary, conditional or situational, which helps to eliminate the 1,2,3,1,2,3, dead model. For instance, I found Guardian very boring at the lower levels, but by the 20s the number or reactionary and conditional skills has increased to the point that you have to use strategy and adjust your tactics through out the battle to be at your most efficient.

I find combat, in general, to be pretty fun. Where as in WoW I would usually go do my quests, turn them in and probably not want to fight much on the way too and fro, in LotRO I constantly find myself "picking fights" with things I don't need for any particualr quest or deed.

Xion1985 · June 2007

Thanks for your information thus far, I'm going to ask some more questions based off what i've read from you guys and also a couple that has popped into my mind too.

a.)Are the active skills you get on even levels, like rank 1, 2, 3 etc, of the same skills or always new skills, or a mix of both of those where your getting new skils and new ranks.

b.)What is the max level, and if i'm playing the game maybe 3-4 hours a day at the most how long would it take me to get there and is the content getting their actually good in storyline and depth to the overall game, or just something to get you to where the real story lies?

c.) This is on a completely different part of the game, but I've heard alot about the deeds and traits thing, but i'm not sure I understand how it makes you able to customize your character, if everyone can do them. If you say pick up a deed do you have to select a trait you want for completing it? Like the example I saw on youtube was a quest for the lore-master enables you to be an eagles friend, is their another choice there to be something else, making it so that as you branch out in the deeds system every choice you make will be another way your lore master could be different then the lore master standing in the opposite corner of the prancing pony?

d.)One of you mentioned sorry your name is failing to pop into my little brain atm that you stop by and kill monsters for no reason but pure enjoyment, how long would you say a fight against a mob your level takes? 20-30 seconds?

e.) Ok last one is the grinding on this game anywhere near the grind that WoW was/is, like I remember killing furlbolgs for a good 10 hours straight for rep for enchants and that is just completely beyond me how much I hated that. I'm all for mindless killing but the reward shouldnt be something that costs you money. :P Anyways sorry for the extremely long post, but thanks for your comments, I'm almost thinking this game might be on my computer by the end of the day.

fiontar · June 2007

Originally posted by Xion1985

Thanks for your information thus far, I'm going to ask some more questions based off what i've read from you guys and also a couple that has popped into my mind too.
a.)Are the active skills you get on even levels, like rank 1, 2, 3 etc, of the same skills or always new skills, or a mix of both of those where your getting new skils and new ranks.
Your skills automatically scale up every time you level. Your new skills are not rank ups, but actual, new skills. Some are more useful than others, because of their situational uses, but that adds a lot of flavor as you progress.

b.)What is the max level, and if i'm playing the game maybe 3-4 hours a day at the most how long would it take me to get there and is the content getting their actually good in storyline and depth to the overall game, or just something to get you to where the real story lies?
The level cap is currently Level 50. The quests are very well written and engaging. How long it will take you to level will depend on whether you intend to level as fast as possible, or enjoy the game. If you read the quests, work on deeds and titles and explore the game world, the current content should last you a good amount of time. I was a WoW power leveler, but here I take my time and my main character is just now level 31, playing maybe 4-6 hours a day. The main storyline quests (which require groups, unless you do them when they are well below your level) take the story up a notch, with voiceovers, cut scenes and very well designed quests.

c.) This is on a completely different part of the game, but I've heard alot about the deeds and traits thing, but i'm not sure I understand how it makes you able to customize your character, if everyone can do them. If you say pick up a deed do you have to select a trait you want for completing it? Like the example I saw on youtube was a quest for the lore-master enables you to be an eagles friend, is their another choice there to be something else, making it so that as you branch out in the deeds system every choice you make will be another way your lore master could be different then the lore master standing in the opposite corner of the prancing pony?
Deeds are designed to take effort and time. There are class deeds, for using particular skills a number of times as you play; Exploration Deeds, based on finding all the landmarks in that zone associated with the deed; Quest Completion Deeds, which reward you for completing a percentage of quests in a zone (or sometimes for completing a list of linked quests); Enmity Deeds, for killing a set number of a particular enemy (in a zone, or world wide if it's a Race Deed); and others as well.
Almost all Deeds reward you with virtues, either General, Class, Race or Legendary. You accumulate your virtues on your character, but you have a limited number of slots in each of those categories in which you can plug your Virtues into. (The General Virtues progress in ranks, so, say if You've completed three seperate Deeds over time with the Valor Virtue reward, it will be Valor Rank 3. They are more powerful in their effects as they progress). You visit a Bard (located in major cities and some other quest hubs) to slot or change your equiped virtues. There is a small fee for slotting a Virtue, which increases depending on how advanced the trait is, but slotting/reslotting costs do not increase the way they do in WoW.

Because they are designed to take time and effort, as you level up you will find you will not likely want to take time completing every possible Deed (you can go back later if you find you really need one you skipped, or just want to accomplish them all). Also, as you level, you will naturally begin to fill out more of your Class Virtues, so that soon you will have many more of those than you can actually slot as well. That's where the system starts to bring differentiation to the characters. People will focus on different General Virtues, as well as different Combinations of Class virtues. You will also find that people who have leveled fast, with out paying much heed to the Deed system, will likely have inferior Virtue builds to those the same level who pay more heed to the system.

d.)One of you mentioned sorry your name is failing to pop into my little brain atm that you stop by and kill monsters for no reason but pure enjoyment, how long would you say a fight against a mob your level takes? 20-30 seconds?
I've never timed it, but against higher level foes, it can take a little while. Longer than a typical fight in WoW, but not nearly as long as a long fight in Guild Wars. I'll try to time one later...

e.) Ok last one is the grinding on this game anywhere near the grind that WoW was/is, like I remember killing furlbolgs for a good 10 hours straight for rep for enchants and that is just completely beyond me how much I hated that. I'm all for mindless killing but the reward shouldnt be something that costs you money. :P Anyways sorry for the extremely long post, but thanks for your comments, I'm almost thinking this game might be on my computer by the end of the day.
There are enough solo quests in game to level to 30 with out any grinding, if you so chose. I've read complaints that it get's harder after 30, but Turbine has already acknowledged the need for more 30+ solo content and they are filling in those gaps with the new content update in a week or two and will continue to do so in future updates.
The Enmity Deeds (Kill Deeds) can be a grind, but no where near as bad as WoW rep grinds. Often, quests will overlap with those deeds, so you can get a number of the required kills in as you go about your business. They require fewer kills in the lower level zones than the higher level ones and some of them require more kills than others. It's enough of a grind so that you will want to chose which ones to focus on as you progress, but far from mind numbing, espescially if you have survived WoW rep grinds

Xion1985 · June 2007

/bows wow thanks.

edit: ya I dont know how I survived the wow rep grinds, I'm sure I lost precious moments of my life, probably lost a job or two becuase of it, but I dont really remember. I was exalted w/ almost every faction pre-tbc. Which means I am/was a total loser.

Royspi · June 2007

The combat is probably whats going to make me quit playing actually. I find it redundant even when in groups. Granted almost EVERY mmo out there is going to be a little repetitive since you can only have so many skills, but LOTRO is just plain boring to me. Perhaps its because I like to play caster classes and there is only one(if you call the loremaster a caster) in the game. That and the lack of class specialization. Oh, and the fact that without a Minstrel you can't do any of the upper level dungeons.

Long time fans of the lore will fall in love with the game. I myself was forced to read the Hobbit one too many times in school though

Dont get me wrong, i'm enjoy myself still for the time being. Been playing since release and I have definitaly been taking my time with the game (level 40 as of last night.. no alts). But I'm glad i didnt sign up for lifetime subscription; unless the expansion coming out this week adds something for me I dont see myself playing it past June. Which tbh sucks.... I want a new mmo.

(screw you EA for canceling Ultima X)

fiontar · June 2007

Timed combat as requested.

As level 31 Guardian (not a DPS class), mobs a few levels lower take about 10-15 seconds. Mobs one or two levels higher take about 30 seconds.

Due to the post above this one and some comments I've seen lately on the ratings comments section, I want to stress again that combat gets more involved as you gain levels and new skills. I also can't specifically comment on higher level Loremasters (highest Loremaster for me has been level 16), but I seem to see more complaints about them being boring than any other class. Personally, I found even at level 16 it was getting better as a Loremaster, but the point is that some classes will fit a personal playstyle better than others.

As far as the complaint that you can't complete high end dungeons with out a Minstrel, in what other MMORPGs would you expect to do so with out a Healer? I can't think of any...

Talyn · June 2007

Without doing any timing, my perception is that the combat rounds in LOTRO are slightly longer than you'd see in WoW, etc. so the combat feels slower. Although, since LOTRO is sticking more to the lore and there's no fantastical effects flying around like you'd see in a more high-fantasy/high-magic game, I guess the slower-paced combat fits. As you gain new combat skills though, it very gradually gives the feeling that you start to fight faster (or at least more interesting with newer moves) as you level.

I have a 16 Loremaster too, and I love the class but it needs (and is getting) some "love" from Turbine. Currently it's a bit underpowered (the squishiest class by far) and more difficult to solo. Not impossible by any means, I solo most of the time, but it's difficult to do quests my level, I'm usually doing stuff a few levels below my own. But that will change, Turbine is already working on the class.

Royspi · June 2007

Originally posted by fiontar

As far as the complaint that you can't complete high end dungeons with out a Minstrel, in what other MMORPGs would you expect to do so with out a Healer? I can't think of any...

Its just frustrating that you need the one class. There are 3 classes in the game that can heal but they are inadequate to main heal most dungeons after fornost. but also the same could be said that you need a burglar for conjunctions / fellowship manevours or a guardian to tank. I'm sure some peopel will get clever and break the mold, but since the game is so new its just not there yet.

Also I'm playing higher end dungeons, feels the same as when I went to Great Barrows for the first time. Its not challenging at all. But... i'm not saying this game isnt good. Its very good, just not turning out to be my cup of tea the more i play.

Ginaz · June 2007

I didn't like the combat or the combat animations. I felt both of them very boring and very underwhelming. For a lot of people playing, combat isn't what brought them to LOTRO so its not a big deal for them. Their Lord of the Ring fans more than mmo fans. The chance to "live" in middle earth can overcome most shortcomings with actual game play for them.

Anyway, back to combat. Its mostly melee based with only 2 options for ranged combat: hunters and lore masters. The only class that can be considered a casting class is the lore master, but they also use melee as part of their attacks. If your not a fan of melee and prefer long range, magic based attacks then you won't find it here.

poopypoowu · June 2007

Think of it this way, every skill takes a cast time, every one is NEEDED.

1 Healer and they still suck.

3 DPS and they can't really dps

1 tank

1 CC that doesnt even CC well....

conclusion: This is like the twin brother of WoW but more mentally retarded (slow) really takes time and effort to get used to this gameplay.

I've played my LM past lv 30 and it was very slow, though unique in a way.

Daedalus732 · June 2007

Originally posted by harrisond

if your a fan of the books and movies you love this game...

I am a huge LOTR fan and I hate this game. The LOTR skin is not enough to keep me involved in what is blatantly a WOW clone and a cash cow for Turbine.

Masta22 · June 2007

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by harrisond

if your a fan of the books and movies you love this game...

I am a huge LOTR fan and I hate this game. The LOTR skin is not enough to keep me involved in what is blatantly a WOW clone and a cash cow for Turbine.

Ive lost count the amound of time people have referred LOTRO as a WOW clone. Thats just like saying WOW is a clone of everquest or whatever. WOW copies off many mmos and it is no way original. Plus LOTRO offers a lot more than WOW does imo... with the deep enthraling storyline and the deed system, to name a few.

fiontar · June 2007

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by harrisond

if your a fan of the books and movies you love this game...

I am a huge LOTR fan and I hate this game. The LOTR skin is not enough to keep me involved in what is blatantly a WOW clone and a cash cow for Turbine.

Did you actually play the game? Or are you just repeating what others have said?

I ask, because so many detractors just say the same things with out elaboration, or if they do elaborate, it quickly becomes clear from the inaccuracies that they never actually played the game!

If you did play, I'd then have to ask how far you got, because getting to level 6 does not give you a real view of the greater game and in fact you probably don't start to get a full feel until at least the mid20's.

demz · June 2007

I did not care for the combat system one bit. There are numerous other reasons I left the game but I will stay on topic. It tends to be slower and has an unresponsive feel to it. This is my opinion of course and your mileage may vary. Not being a huge Lord of The Rings fan, that part of the game did not suck me in. I am speaking from a strict gameplay perspective here. If you enjoy LOTR it may help soften the blow of anything you discover in the game that does not suit your fancy.

But, in my opinion the combat just does not deliver what I was looking for.

tombear81 · June 2007

Hmmm heres my pennies worth on LOTRO :

The combat is mostly like WoW. Click wait click. No real time or specific hit places on enemies .. I was expecting this of LOTRO and was dissapointed.
Fewer classes than WoW. With more specfiic roles than general ones. though some overlap.
There are more different abilities than WoW. They dont just rank up. WoW was boring for that wasn't it ?
I'd say some classes like loremaster / hunter ( to name two) require actually reading the dammned descriptions and figuring out there best use. This is a notch up from WoW, IMHO many younger players cannot cope with this.
Difficulty ranges from simple quests to harder ones. The main factor in grouping is the quality of the group ( as opposed to a set formula of classes).
A healer is somewhat necessary for groups of elites at higher level. Though at the same time I have yet to see a loremaster use there emergency heal on others and not just spam fireball ( which is a DoT effect anyways). If the group sucks the healer is usally killed by adds which no one helps with OR members that run in when the healer has no power. Standard stuff really.
As in all MMO's lacklustre players tend to knock dazed charectors with damage AoE's not realising that holds are an important part of the game. Prefering dmg, dmg .dmg and screaming heal to nearly dead healers....

... in all lots of standard stuff in LOTRO for combat.

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