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Is GW PVP becoming too elitist?
BattleFelon
Member UncommonPosts: 483
One of the things I've loved about GW is the ability for both casual and hardcore players to enjoy different aspects of PVP. But with the new introduction of the tournament system - which rewards only the top players with special PVP armor and weapon skins - I'm starting to feel that GW is becoming quite a bit more elitist when it comes to PVP. But then again I've also felt this way for a long time about the current situation in HA (don't bother looking for a group if you're not already a veteran with Rank 6 + fame).
Does anyone else feel the game is becoming elitist like WOW or is the tournament system the perfect way to reward hardcore players without hurting casuals? I understand that I'm not really being hurt as my normal looking gear will have the same power as the exotic tournament rewards. But I can't help but feel a little uneasy when I realize there is almost no way for an average player to earn most of the rewards.
Comments
What do you mean "becoming"? It's been horridly elitist since about a year and a half ago. WELL before IWAY rank farming took hold.
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There's 2 reasons I can think of why this wouldn't happen:
1. People are just to lazy to organize anything
2. They suck vs. these elite people
If the latter is the problem, then that's not Guild Wars' fault. I don't play HA but honestly don't see what the whining is about. I've dabbled into it a bit, but PvP doesn't really interest me. Maybe you need to practise some more...
PvP is little more than a prepubescent pecker contest. City of Heroes was a great game til the devs at Cryptic added it. Then it (and the community) went to hell very quickly.
I realize Guild Wars is built around PvP, but IMHO there's more than enough to do in the game without lowering yourself to the level of a 12 year old who needs to kill another player to feel good about himself.
I think I need to further explain my post a little. I come to GW from a background playing PVP in RTSes and WOW. While there are things I love about GW's PVP, I do find it tough to "move up" from random arenas and alliance battles into more organized styles of PVP. Part of the problem is GW is so team-based. I've never played a game where I have to coordinate things down to the second with 8 other people as much as I do in this game. As much as I hated WOW's gear fetish, I've rolled with some of the top PVP guilds on my server in battlegrounds and immediately knew my role as a mage. This of course would never happen in GW - we'd have needed to all be on Teamspeak and be specced to our secret elementalist/dervish combo. If you don't have a good group to begin with it seems almost impossible to get in with organized teams where you can learn. Classic Catch-22.
Combine this with the fact that even WOW has made it possible for casual players to slowly grind even the best PVP gear over time, and I wonder why GW is going the opposite way by only giving top tournament winners a shot at cool PVP gear.
PS - I've had a lot of fun playing in hard mode and beating the top elite missions like Urgoz and the Deep (still working on Domains of Anguish). I feel I'm an accomplished PVE player but having played the game on and off since launch, I do deeply feel a little ashamed not to have even the lowest rank icon.
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"I do deeply feel a little ashamed not to have even the lowest rank icon."
Why? Personally, I never got into the whole "rank" thing. Just have lots of fun doing what I do, which is almost exclusively PvE (I also have fun farming Balthazar Faction in the elite challenge areas with my heroes). Illusionary Weapon Mesmers are - hands down - the easiest to kill.
But I digress: I suspect the reason A-Net has put more PvE into the game is because a lot of people either prefer it (like me) or want something different to do when they tire of ganking (or getting ganked) by aforementioned 12 year-olds.
Not worse anyway that jerks who drop from RA each time the team they end up in doesn't please them, and still brag about their Gladiator title.
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Actually you have a very good point there - and Id add that I also hate the leachers in AB who do nothing but suck up free faction points.
Perhaps higher level PVP is actually less elitist and more sportsmanlike by comparison.
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You say elitist (at least, in your original post); I say rewarding. Sure, there's the catch-22 you pointed out, but how do you think the high-rankers got up there? If you play HA enough (and I mean A LOT!), you either get great amounts of experience and strategy, or increase your chances of getting into a successful group, ranked or otherwise. Or both.
It's the classic envy situation, if you ask me, and perseverance is the solution. And maybe a good guild to go HA with.
You'd see the biggest bunch of noobs making bambi movies in every capital city at that rate. Sometimes you've got to work to reap the rewards. There will be no reward having something everyone else has.
QFT QFT....
Up until that point, it was sort of the wild wild west of PvP, you would see fun groups like the EoE bombs (always good for a bunch of wtf's) and the old minion factory with the crazy amount of minions running around.
I dont really have a problem with highend PvPer's...from the most part winners make the rules. If a winning group only wants certain rank players then that is the rule. You either lead, follow or get rolled by them. There are so many PvP alternatives now that I think most people have given up really trying to strive for rank in HA. Find a guild that is good at PvP and just have fun with your people.
RA leaver is by far the most annoying thing that occurs now, so much so that I just go there to test a build and not to actually try for the gladiator title.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
If you are a low rank and you actually think youre good at HA, then start a pick up group for HA, but I doubt it'll go very good, because very few low ranked players are good, and even fewer are good leaders.
GW PvP is elitist though, because much of it is very serious. Besides the Hero Battles and PUG arena, PvP in GW is very difficult and complex. It is unlike any other mmo in that respect, and although it can be frustrating for a new player, I think it gives the game character where other mmos lack.
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Fair enough - and I'm not asking for things to be handed to me on a silver platter. It just seems extremely daunting even to get started in HA if you haven't already gained rank.
Would a few nights a week with an organized team be a good start - or when you say "play a lot of HA" are you referring to 20+ hours of PVP a week?
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It's always best to start off slow, then see where that takes you. If you get good progress from it, bump up your playtime; otherwise, you won't feel like you wasted that much time.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
No matter what they do, there will always be some people that arent happy..
IMO GW has been doing very well on keeping the game in balanced... To actually get good at the game, you need to have control over your characters, thats how game should be, thats what I think competition and challenge is all about, its not like those games which all the new players will always be at the bottom unless they play 24/7 and lv up without stoppping, GW is about using strategy and come up with your build and how you use the skills on your enemies.... This game is more about understanding how to play than just playing it all day.
It is very different to try to understand the game instead of just playing it for the sake of lvling up.. This is why GW is unique, and the game have nothing to do with how good/bad players are...GW isnt responsible for this.
Of course.
Ready for GW2!!!
QFT. IMO being good at the game vs. having a high-level character is what turns off some to-GW switchers.
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I finally got around to buying this game about 3 months ago. I bought it entirely because I knew it was focused around pvp. Unfortunately no one is willing to take me under their wing and teach me anything. I read up on strats and builds etc as much as I could but that only helped so much. Got tired of people telling me I sucked several times a day; and honestly wasn't that bad. Ijust didnt know how to coordinate well with others because they simply assumed I knew what was going on despite asking for advice after a loss. I doubt I'll play the game much longer. Only reason I can see myself doing so is I'm an mmo-pvper. I have been since 1999 when I was still playing UO.
...hmmm.. i bet they still have freeshards for that game. *light bulb*
bye
I remember after I came back from an 8 month break (no comp :-( ) that my pvp skills had declined rapidly...the game was too fast for me and that was just in RA. It took me a little more than a week to get back into the flow and get my touch back. I would have to assume that being new to the game would make it that much more difficult.
High end pvp should be elitest, and if you want to change it, go take it from them
Good luck in UO though...
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
you start off in the battle isles, go through the pvp training, then through winning battles in the random arenas and team arenas, before you can get to the heros ascent....
doing this should get you atleast a couple of skill sets for builds you can play, and give you atleast some experience in playing the game..
one big thing I can say for new guild wars PvPers, is dont play a warrior for a day, then a monk, then an elementalist, for several reasons..
you'll suck at them all... practice one, gain faction, unlock more skills for that one class, play more builds for that one class then move onto another class, do the same, and keep going back to your first class every now and then to keep fresh..
people think warriors are the best to start with cause they automatically associate warriors as tanks due to other games, well, they arent, especially solo... when learning, its best to play a mid-line/backline class, either a Paragon or Elementalist, possibly a necro..
avoid mesmer and monk till you know how they work properly, as youll get yelled at if you fail to heal and manage your energy as a monk, and you'll get yelled at if you miss interruptions as a mesmer...
If anyone ever wants to pick up some tips re: pvp, im not the best, i havent played for a few months due to various real life issues... but im on my 3rd account, rank 8 on that acc't, have been playing since beta.. and used to pvp with the best, and the old school pvpers before they changed how pvp worked...
so feel free to drop me a msg in game when im on -- Ghozer Ghozarian is my main..
See you in game
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If you are upset about the time it takes from getting a full group to actually starting the fights then
HA usually revolves around a few proven builds, which can be annoying but thats just how HA works. Usually you'll find TA and guild battles to be a little more lax on builds... But all in all, its just really hard to make good builds and its really easy to go with what works.
Its still fun IMO even if you arent making your own builds. Hell its fun even if you arent making any adjustments at all to the build! GW PvP is just flat out beyond all other roleplaying games. If you are getting bored then you probably arent reaching the halls often enough.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
However, in Europe and America, Guild Wars is moving into, what some describe, as its third age and we're seeing lost of new guilds appear on the GvG ladder and unknown players appearing and making a name for themselves with the introduction of the hero battle ladder
There is still a top tier Elitest group near the top of the ladder, but some of them are open to seeing others come and try and take their crown, so to speak (whether thats just for new blood to drink and new people to beat, I'll leave that for you to decide)
I only started properly pvp'ing late last year myself, through pulling from my pvp side of the guild and although its not my things, its good to do from time to time and I enjoy running a guild that has the potential to be in the top 1000, just so long as we can deal damn spike builds