I would have to say this is the closest I have had to having fun while playing wow since release. Since alot of you seem to be unhappy it the pvp , I am begining to wonder what your felings where prior to TBC. Id like to hear from others how they felt about 1) WoW pvp prior to TBC 2) PvP post TBC 3)PvP they have had from other mmorpgs
I've been browsing the official forums recently, and there is a HUGE outcry for the old school Alterac Valley. For those of you that don't know what old AV was like, you could afk out and come back to the same game several hours later, the battles were nothing short of epic. And I mean that in every sense of the word.
Yet I'm curious, this outcry has been wanted for so long.. yet it hasn't been addressed? The same goes for World PvP, which is lacking in-definitely. I mean hell, I started on a Role-Playing server, and I took it upon myself to organise "lore" battles between Alliance and Horde Guilds on the server, they were great fun, but GM's often broke them up because we "were interfering with zone mechanics"
I'd love to see a zone or portion of one of the continents just dedicated to PvP, guilds could capture towers, maybe get an income from them to their guild bank. The whole zone would just be a non-stop war, and a place to release stress or fun.
Anyone know what I'm getting at? The attempts made by Blizzard to create world PvP were jokes. (Eastern Plaguelands, Sithilus, etc) Those are steps forward but they really don't make any real achievement. So what? It buffs your faction when you are in the zone. It gives no real reward, no real sense of achievement at all.
I'm talking a zone that is just pure PvP, something for the Combat guilds to focus on.. say they capture a tower, then that is their's to defend and hold in the war zone, it can give the guild an income to their guild bank, or put them on a ladder for the amount of time they manage to hold their battlement.
Or, you could add a kind of "blood money" that could be picked up from a world PvP kill. Then this currency could be traded for any kind of Battleground token. What about World PvP Quests?
"Kill 10 Alliance". And then you could have the opposite for the horde. And if Blizzard wanted to add rep grind to that, just add another faction for rewards and what not. As long as it doesn't end up like a giant zerg PvP Raid like AV is at the moment, I think that would be awesome. It would also promote Guild vs. Guild gameplay.
A mate of mine argued that it didn't work because "no one wanted it." ...
Look at the official forums, many people I know that play the game love PvP, the gear is getting buffed next season, and so what? It doesn't need to be on par with certain dungeon items, hell, PvP is much easier for the casual player these days too, and the achievement of getting PvP gear is a good one. I know I had it when I hit Grand Marshal.
A lot of people don't enjoy raiding either. In the latest patch, Blizzard added a new instance that only 1% of the population will see at the moment.
When I first tried PvP, I did it because I was curious, and I loved it. Once I'd managed to rope a few others into it they were the same.
The game has an enormous PvE part to it, and it is a central focus of the game, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement to the PvP sector, god knows it needs it in the eyes of the community.
Sorry for that long winded post, but seriously I just wish someone would acknowledge these things.
Low lvl PvP is totally messed up with all the twinks. I dont mind someone who want to twink but please let them play on their own and dont mix em always in games with ppls who doesnt want to spend xxx gold cause they will lvl out anyway in a few days or a week.
Endgame PvP, well since TBC came out its all about arena. Everything gets balanced around arena (for example soon the new insignias), no new items for BG ppls (yes sure boots, belt etc. but no set, no weapons etc. What will happen with ppls who doesnt like to raid / arena when lets say season 4 arrives, totally unbalanced. It would be so simple to balance this out just let ppls honor grind always for the old arena set in the BGs, I mean season 2 starts then the old season 1 arena set would be available through BGs)
No new BGs or other ideas for PvP, like Ive said its now just bout arena. Seriously Iam not playing a MMO to play Counter-Strike in a fantasy style, for ppls who love it well ok I dont mind it as long as you still fully support BG and open PvP ppls.
Really this game is gettin worse and worse, guess its time to quit and move on.
After quitting wow 2 months ago and trying out the "other" MMO's out there, I can truly say that you don't know what you've got till its gone. I still haven't found a better designed MMO out there. PVP or PVE wise.
Then you havent played Lineage 2 with a high lvl character obviously. yeah because it takes a year of your life to get to lvl cap in lineage 2..not worth it, lifes too short. L2 sux balls. I tried it. It is one of the worst mmos out. One step ahead of hero online.
But WoW PvP is probably the best out there right now, with the exception of EVE - but they are two completely different kinds of game. It's certainly better than EQ1s half-assed implementation and EQ2's dock/bell camping gankfest - the PvP arenas are always empty.
It's at this point someone will probably think: "But-but-but.... <insert game that hasn't been released yet> will have better PVP! Just you wait! WoW will die!111", but I've heard that so many times about MMOs over the years, - there's only so long you can respect the opinion of people who think like that and are constantly dissapointed. It's like watching kids finding out they didn't get the spaceship they really wished for, every birthday and Christmas.
The next failed MMO is going to bring the same tears as the ones from those deluded kids at Christmas. It just breaks my heart... almost. Well, I don't have any empathy for those who foolishly believe in one of the most moronic ideas ever to grace the MMO scene:
"REAL or TRUE PVP."
True.. PvP... rofl... that's like "true metal", right?
"Real PvP" is a myth, made up by elitist jaded burnout cases who really don't have enough experience with MMOs to know better. I however, do. WoW rox0r0z your bo0xe0rez. Or something, did I type that right - "true" PvPers?
Yes, "TRUE PVPERS!" It's mocking time for you. What's the matter, WoW too popular for you to enjoy? No longer like a certain band because they've become too mainstream? Oh you're such unique and beautiful snowflakes. Oh right, there's no *point* in WoW PvP? Is that right, because THAT OTHER GAME is really meaningful, isn't it? Camping gates in EvE is soo meaningful, taking part in lagged out pretend fleet battles is really meaningful isn't it?
More power to you, true PvPers. With your meaningful PvP that basically means you're not actually PvPing most of the time, but waiting... and waiting... and waiting...
True.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Does the new WoW:TBC allow FFA in the high lvl arenas? you know like 2 horde vs 2 horde? Just curious if WoW added other FFA besides the stranglethorn vale arena.
yeah my good best buddy still wants me to come back to WoW. but i just cant do it. I'm so sick of grinding. I can spot grind from a mile away now. WoW + City of Heroes just totally burned me out. kinda thinking only way to have good, grindless MMO pvp is direct looting of players? no, I dont wanna do the time based / ISK grind in EvE. for now im thinking bout going with old school UO server or the starport mmo that has hardcore pvp where i can own land or just be a pirate or jsut raise a colony.
sigh, i miss the ole days tho when I was not this old burned out bitter MMO player. I love this genre but apparently the grind just has no end lol
WoW's PvP is really the same, give or take they added things and buffed guards to try and killed world pvp slowly, however it's the same game with more levels gear etc, since BC the community has changed more than anything, all it takes is a few guilds that world pvp again and just go out and have fun again, it's up to the players to bring it back and if they don't then it will probably be boring, Battlegrounds isn't a bad Idea but it's controlled like an instance and you do the same things over and over, then add in grinding rep etc. for rewards with certain battle grounds and people rather do that than the old pvp that was for fun and not for gear.
I think over the course of the next year or two blizzard will attempt to change pvp in WoW and will adapt to new MMORPG games like Warhammar and will do so, theres a reason why it has the most subscriptions and is the most popular online game as of now.
Over the past year my main concern is community, my rogue is on a low pop server and is outnumbered a ton by alliance and really ruins the game experience, along with the level of maturity of players nowadays, I encounter 2-3 jerks or immature players and it's been getting worse and worse, overall its the players that will have to bring it back , a lot of new players who never encountered the old, fun world pvp back in the day probably wont want to since they want gear and wouldnt do it for nothing so to say.
However I do agree with many of you, WoW is infact getting old for me and I think Blizzard listened too much to the babies who wanted everything handed to them because this game is almost a joke if you compare WoW release to BC release, nowadays pvp fights last no longer than 30 seconds.
There's one 'best' set for pvp for the classes and playstyles.. Gained through.. PvP... So if you come in late you have to fight Others with the Best gear and Win with inferior gear to get Equal gear.....
Also, take the Moonkins as a prime example, they have four spells worth of use..... For buttons just doesn't make variety.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW... It all sucked.
Let me explain this to you with very simple logic:
Human opponents = PvP.
K?
And please, just, don't, bother.... whining about PvE gear deciding the outcome of a fight - because this element of the game is overstated thanks to the diminishing returns you get at the high end. Skill plays a massive part of WoW PvP - greater than a lot of people understand or care to admit. RPGs are item based, MMOs are timesinks, and what is World of Warcraft? An MMORPG, a very popular RPG - that's probably more balanced than most other MMOs out there, despite what naysayers say.
Thus your ill-conceived complaints about WoW PvP are pretty much completely irrelevant. WoW PvP is fine, whiners say it takes no skill, but I seriously doubt most of it's detractors have the skill to seriously compete with the best players. WoW is also making headway in online competitive tournaments, because.. the PvP is that good.
Live in denial if you like, but if you put aside your WoW hate for a sec, check out this pretty neat WoW tournament vid on the front page of this site: www.thewsvg.com/
Or just Google for competitive WoW tournaments, and actually watch how PvP in WoW is really played, not how you guys clumbsily fool around with, probably still using the mouse to click most of the abilities, and just not having the experience to really enjoy playing against excellently skilled opponents.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Ok, first of all, WoW pvp sucks because there is absolutely no way of doing it unless you join a bg (if u are on a normal server like me). It gets extremely boring and repetitive doing the same thing over and over until u arive at the break of insanity from all the fearing, stuning, instant pyroing, getting executed for like 8000, being slowed down, getting ganked left right and center...and u can even fall asleep...like wtf! what kind of pvp is this. Also, the pvp servers are no difference from normal servers except for the fact that u can kill some noobies running around. Theres no raiding cities or camps, or theres no scenarios other then those cheesy tower things, theres no kill an x amount of horde quests...im sry but it really does suck...
And another thing...the pvp sets are garbage. What was Blizzard thinking...pvp should be one of the most rewarding things to do of any game but they clearly want u to stay away from it or something. Probably cuz they know pvp in WoW is a joke.
Tibu...im sorry i think you might need help......youve played WoW 2525 hours and when i divided that by 24 i got 105 meaning OMG you have played Wow for 105 full days......thats kinda almost 1/3 of a year DUDE UR ADDICTIED SAVE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU LOSE UR FRIENDS AND FAMILY HURRY YOU CAN DO IT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..............unless it is tooooooo late!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by butters88 Ok, first of all, WoW pvp sucks because there is absolutely no way of doing it unless you join a bg (if u are on a normal server like me). It gets extremely boring and repetitive doing the same thing over and over until u arive at the break of insanity from all the fearing, stuning, instant pyroing, getting executed for like 8000, being slowed down, getting ganked left right and center...and u can even fall asleep...like wtf! what kind of pvp is this. Also, the pvp servers are no difference from normal servers except for the fact that u can kill some noobies running around. Theres no raiding cities or camps, or theres no scenarios other then those cheesy tower things, theres no kill an x amount of horde quests...im sry but it really does suck... And another thing...the pvp sets are garbage. What was Blizzard thinking...pvp should be one of the most rewarding things to do of any game but they clearly want u to stay away from it or something. Probably cuz they know pvp in WoW is a joke.
you make some good points, the battlegrounds are indeed horrid. grinding the same BG over and over because it gives the most honor points when it is more pve than pvp anyways, is not my idea of a good pvp/honor system.
but i do like the arena pvp, the gear is the best gear in the game you can get for pvp and it is based off skill not leeching honor in a tunnel being afk the whole time.
wow's pvp mainly sucks in my opinion because it forces you to do shitty bg's that get extremely old after a while. they forced me to quit wow on more than one occasion.
ok i been playing wow sence Beta so almost 3 years. my guild is finishing up in SSC and started BT. We used to PVP alot pre TBC. and it makes me laugh so hard when ppl say that PVP at 70 is just fine. IT'S NOT, its completely broken. it is so broken that Blizz has made statements saying that their PVP is unbalance and that they have no concerns about it ATM and wont for a long while and are focusing on PVE... WITCH makes me laugh even harder cause in raids class rolls are completely F'ed up. The game in its current state needs alot of work in the balanceing department.
When they killed world pvp with BGs. Now dont get me wrong the BGs were kind of fun.. but as someone else said make several maps for the different game types of pvp.
After Battlegrounds came out I rerolled everytime a new server came out. For the first couple months of the servers life the world pvp was booming. Thats another thing they really messed up on though. Waaaay too many servers (i wasnt one of the beggars and whiners always asking for them either btw.. id just go play my original server after the world pvp would die.. hmm guess i contributed to the problem, oh well. They shouldnt have made that many )
On a PvP server, the Outlands is good PvP, but not outstanding. I agree with butters, waiting in line for bg's (up to an hour) and then doing the same repetitive thing over and over is frustrating, tedious, and gets boring. Since the implementation of the new combo realm bg's, the queue time for bg's, especially Alterac Valley, has shortened and is not quite as frustrating as it used to be.
I'm excited about Warhammer and the PvP (or RvR as they call it) should be outstanding. The game is based around it!
People who write things like this are the reason suicide exists.
"I don't find that the PvP in WoW sucks, what I think sucks are the people out there that feel that to have a good time they have to be able to steal something from someone else ie: Looting the vanquished of items. There is a fundamental flaw in the character of an individual that feels the need to deprive something from someone else just to have fun. If you're in the park and knock out a passerby and then take his wallet what does that make you? To put the same kind of activity into a game setting is wrong thinking and caters to the opponents of online gaming.
I find it appalling that other games are even considering the ability to loot items from other characters, this is simply theft. Personally I would never play a game that condones this type of activity and I think a vast majority of the gaming community wouldn't as well which is why you will never see it in WoW."
You would sound just as smart saying people who play Starcraft are sociopaths because they like to knock down other people's buildings. How can these terrorists who go into a town and raze the entire town be allowed to walk around in normal society????
1st off, there isn't player item looting in WOW. So wtf is this guy talking about? Second, if everyone agrees to play by those rules how the hell is it the same as knocking out a random person in a park? Maybe if the random person CHOSE the park knowing you were there, signed up saying he wanted to compete vs you for his wallet, and was trying to take your wallet too...... that would be a reasonable thing to write. What you wrote was so stupid it's criminal. I would lock you up for being so ignorant. Seriously.
i've been playing WoW since closed beta....and i've seen the evolution of WoW's pvp over the 2-3 years that its been out. basically....up until the expansion, WoW's pvp system was bland....but not horrible. post-expac....this has changed and pvp in WoW is pretty stupid.
~negatives~
1. only 2 factions
you have a very linear conflict when you only have a "good" and "evil" side. if you've never played a game with RvR or multi-faction pvp, you will not be able to comprehend what i'm saying. however, try to envision this......you are alliance, you're fighting a horde, all of a sudden....another faction called the "dragon people" (i know...stupid...just example) enters the picture and ganks both of you at low health. what do you do now? do you still try to kill the horde, do you kill the dragon people, or do you put your conflict with the horde guy aside for now and kill the dragon guy together?
2. battlegrounds - most of the pvp action is instanced and has little impact on the actual game world.
3. cross server battlegrounds
this was honestly the dumbest idea blizzard ever came up with. pvp is ALL about conflict. although i hate the 2 faction system that WoW incorporates, it wasn't so bad before X-server BGs because you were always on conflict with the other side on your server. everybody on the horde KNEW the players on the alliance for their given servers. pvp server "drama" was present in the BGs and you would see same teams often enough to develop strategies against certain guids and teams on the other side. with x-server BGs...all that went out the window. you play with different people on different servers every single game. 90% of the time, you'll never see the same people twice. but worst of all, the entire "server conflict" is now gone. i don't think i even know any of the alliance on my server because i rarely ever see them in BGs.
4. arena
this was such a great idea that completely crashed and burned...and imo destroyed the expansion. arena was suppose to be a place where good pvpers were rewarded. it was suppose to be a little world that blizzard created for hardcore pvpers. instead....arena has just become a joke and has severely damaged not only the pvp aspects of WoW but also the pve aspects.
the failure of the arena can be summed up in one sentence. *****Arena gear is BETTER than raid gear, and you get arena points for LOSING in arena.****
because arena gear is better than raid gear, it is now near impossible to get a guild to raid. guilds that could get 40+ people together pre-BC are now struggling to get 25 together. it is also harder than ever to get priest to go holy instead of shadow, pallies to go holy instead of ret, and warriors to go prot instead of ms/fury.
WoW is probably the most gear dependent game that i know of. since casual players can get almost half the points of a hardcore arena team by spending 1/10th of the time and effort.....you have a bunch of morons running around decked out in arena gear. everybody looks the same, has the same gear, and pvp has turned into 1-2 shot fest.
to summarize:
blizzard has dumbed down pvp over the years to cater to their player base. a large majority of WoW players are casual players or extremely bad players (young or just new to gaming). in order to keep these customers happy and keep subscribing, they make it so even the biggest donkey can get the best gear in the game with just a little more time than a hardcore player. since WoW's pvp system is so gear dependent, even the biggest donkey in the world can succeed in their pvp system if they pound their head on the keyboard long enough.
Let me explain this to you with very simple logic:
Human opponents = PvP.
K?
And please, just, don't, bother.... whining about PvE gear deciding the outcome of a fight - because this element of the game is overstated thanks to the diminishing returns you get at the high end. Skill plays a massive part of WoW PvP - greater than a lot of people understand or care to admit. RPGs are item based, MMOs are timesinks, and what is World of Warcraft? An MMORPG, a very popular RPG - that's probably more balanced than most other MMOs out there, despite what naysayers say.
Thus your ill-conceived complaints about WoW PvP are pretty much completely irrelevant. WoW PvP is fine, whiners say it takes no skill, but I seriously doubt most of it's detractors have the skill to seriously compete with the best players. WoW is also making headway in online competitive tournaments, because.. the PvP is that good.
Live in denial if you like, but if you put aside your WoW hate for a sec, check out this pretty neat WoW tournament vid on the front page of this site: www.thewsvg.com/
Or just Google for competitive WoW tournaments, and actually watch how PvP in WoW is really played, not how you guys clumbsily fool around with, probably still using the mouse to click most of the abilities, and just not having the experience to really enjoy playing against excellently skilled opponents.
Wasn't Blizzard's own tournament a massive failure because half the participants were banned due to Blizzard's own poor planning.
Didn't most of the pro-Korean players give up because it was too much of a time sink and they couldn't practice their other games enough.
Comments
as an average player
I would have to say this is the closest I have had to having fun while playing wow since release. Since alot of you seem to be unhappy it the pvp , I am begining to wonder what your felings where prior to TBC. Id like to hear from others how they felt about 1) WoW pvp prior to TBC 2) PvP post TBC 3)PvP they have had from other mmorpgs
Hasani
Yet I'm curious, this outcry has been wanted for so long.. yet it hasn't been addressed? The same goes for World PvP, which is lacking in-definitely. I mean hell, I started on a Role-Playing server, and I took it upon myself to organise "lore" battles between Alliance and Horde Guilds on the server, they were great fun, but GM's often broke them up because we "were interfering with zone mechanics"
I'd love to see a zone or portion of one of the continents just dedicated to PvP, guilds could capture towers, maybe get an income from them to their guild bank. The whole zone would just be a non-stop war, and a place to release stress or fun.
Anyone know what I'm getting at? The attempts made by Blizzard to create world PvP were jokes. (Eastern Plaguelands, Sithilus, etc) Those are steps forward but they really don't make any real achievement. So what? It buffs your faction when you are in the zone. It gives no real reward, no real sense of achievement at all.
I'm talking a zone that is just pure PvP, something for the Combat guilds to focus on.. say they capture a tower, then that is their's to defend and hold in the war zone, it can give the guild an income to their guild bank, or put them on a ladder for the amount of time they manage to hold their battlement.
Or, you could add a kind of "blood money" that could be picked up from a world PvP kill. Then this currency could be traded for any kind of Battleground token. What about World PvP Quests?
"Kill 10 Alliance". And then you could have the opposite for the horde. And if Blizzard wanted to add rep grind to that, just add another faction for rewards and what not. As long as it doesn't end up like a giant zerg PvP Raid like AV is at the moment, I think that would be awesome. It would also promote Guild vs. Guild gameplay.
A mate of mine argued that it didn't work because "no one wanted it." ...
Look at the official forums, many people I know that play the game love PvP, the gear is getting buffed next season, and so what? It doesn't need to be on par with certain dungeon items, hell, PvP is much easier for the casual player these days too, and the achievement of getting PvP gear is a good one. I know I had it when I hit Grand Marshal.
A lot of people don't enjoy raiding either. In the latest patch, Blizzard added a new instance that only 1% of the population will see at the moment.
When I first tried PvP, I did it because I was curious, and I loved it. Once I'd managed to rope a few others into it they were the same.
The game has an enormous PvE part to it, and it is a central focus of the game, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement to the PvP sector, god knows it needs it in the eyes of the community.
Sorry for that long winded post, but seriously I just wish someone would acknowledge these things.
Endgame PvP, well since TBC came out its all about arena. Everything gets balanced around arena (for example soon the new insignias), no new items for BG ppls (yes sure boots, belt etc. but no set, no weapons etc. What will happen with ppls who doesnt like to raid / arena when lets say season 4 arrives, totally unbalanced. It would be so simple to balance this out just let ppls honor grind always for the old arena set in the BGs, I mean season 2 starts then the old season 1 arena set would be available through BGs)
No new BGs or other ideas for PvP, like Ive said its now just bout arena. Seriously Iam not playing a MMO to play Counter-Strike in a fantasy style, for ppls who love it well ok I dont mind it as long as you still fully support BG and open PvP ppls.
Really this game is gettin worse and worse, guess its time to quit and move on.
And sorry for my poor English >.<
I personally missed world PVP pre BGs. I think it would have done alot for the game, had Blizzard created multible maps for each BG
To the OP:
WOW PVP works just fine, thank you!
Just one of the 71/2 million satisfied customers!
But WoW PvP is probably the best out there right now, with the exception of EVE - but they are two completely different kinds of game. It's certainly better than EQ1s half-assed implementation and EQ2's dock/bell camping gankfest - the PvP arenas are always empty.
It's at this point someone will probably think: "But-but-but.... <insert game that hasn't been released yet> will have better PVP! Just you wait! WoW will die!111", but I've heard that so many times about MMOs over the years, - there's only so long you can respect the opinion of people who think like that and are constantly dissapointed. It's like watching kids finding out they didn't get the spaceship they really wished for, every birthday and Christmas.
The next failed MMO is going to bring the same tears as the ones from those deluded kids at Christmas. It just breaks my heart... almost. Well, I don't have any empathy for those who foolishly believe in one of the most moronic ideas ever to grace the MMO scene:
"REAL or TRUE PVP."
True.. PvP... rofl... that's like "true metal", right?
"Real PvP" is a myth, made up by elitist jaded burnout cases who really don't have enough experience with MMOs to know better. I however, do. WoW rox0r0z your bo0xe0rez. Or something, did I type that right - "true" PvPers?
Yes, "TRUE PVPERS!" It's mocking time for you. What's the matter, WoW too popular for you to enjoy? No longer like a certain band because they've become too mainstream? Oh you're such unique and beautiful snowflakes. Oh right, there's no *point* in WoW PvP? Is that right, because THAT OTHER GAME is really meaningful, isn't it? Camping gates in EvE is soo meaningful, taking part in lagged out pretend fleet battles is really meaningful isn't it?
More power to you, true PvPers. With your meaningful PvP that basically means you're not actually PvPing most of the time, but waiting... and waiting... and waiting...
True.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Does the new WoW:TBC allow FFA in the high lvl arenas? you know like 2 horde vs 2 horde? Just curious if WoW added other FFA besides the stranglethorn vale arena.
yeah my good best buddy still wants me to come back to WoW. but i just cant do it. I'm so sick of grinding. I can spot grind from a mile away now. WoW + City of Heroes just totally burned me out. kinda thinking only way to have good, grindless MMO pvp is direct looting of players? no, I dont wanna do the time based / ISK grind in EvE. for now im thinking bout going with old school UO server or the starport mmo that has hardcore pvp where i can own land or just be a pirate or jsut raise a colony.
sigh, i miss the ole days tho when I was not this old burned out bitter MMO player. I love this genre but apparently the grind just has no end lol
I think the biggest problem is how repetitive it becomes. You play 4 battlegrounds over and over again, and now the arena maps.
the problems with WoW PvP are the following :
-Gear Imbalance
-Massive Burst Damage
-Not enough defense
-Healers are healbots, spam heal ..and live gg
-lack of content, since the expansion pvp'ers have gotten 1 crappy battleground/3 very bland arena's
-reused armor graphics (Battleground is old PvP Blue gear, Arena is just tier 4 with a diff color)
-Crowd Control is out of control, its good for PvE but in PvP its lame and will make or break a fight
-Flying Mounts are the ultimate gankers tool, you stay in the air safe from any harm and wait until someone is nearly dead...great
-World PvP is a joke, the towers are dumb as hell. PvP
I think over the course of the next year or two blizzard will attempt to change pvp in WoW and will adapt to new MMORPG games like Warhammar and will do so, theres a reason why it has the most subscriptions and is the most popular online game as of now.
Over the past year my main concern is community, my rogue is on a low pop server and is outnumbered a ton by alliance and really ruins the game experience, along with the level of maturity of players nowadays, I encounter 2-3 jerks or immature players and it's been getting worse and worse, overall its the players that will have to bring it back , a lot of new players who never encountered the old, fun world pvp back in the day probably wont want to since they want gear and wouldnt do it for nothing so to say.
However I do agree with many of you, WoW is infact getting old for me and I think Blizzard listened too much to the babies who wanted everything handed to them because this game is almost a joke if you compare WoW release to BC release, nowadays pvp fights last no longer than 30 seconds.
Live for everything
Die for nothing
There's one 'best' set for pvp for the classes and playstyles..
Gained through.. PvP...
So if you come in late you have to fight Others with the Best gear and Win with inferior gear to get Equal gear.....
Also, take the Moonkins as a prime example, they have four spells worth of use.....
For buttons just doesn't make variety.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
-
Do not hate it, but instead embrace the diversity.
Human opponents = PvP.
K?
And please, just, don't, bother.... whining about PvE gear deciding the outcome of a fight - because this element of the game is overstated thanks to the diminishing returns you get at the high end. Skill plays a massive part of WoW PvP - greater than a lot of people understand or care to admit. RPGs are item based, MMOs are timesinks, and what is World of Warcraft? An MMORPG, a very popular RPG - that's probably more balanced than most other MMOs out there, despite what naysayers say.
Thus your ill-conceived complaints about WoW PvP are pretty much completely irrelevant. WoW PvP is fine, whiners say it takes no skill, but I seriously doubt most of it's detractors have the skill to seriously compete with the best players. WoW is also making headway in online competitive tournaments, because.. the PvP is that good.
Live in denial if you like, but if you put aside your WoW hate for a sec, check out this pretty neat WoW tournament vid on the front page of this site: www.thewsvg.com/
Or just Google for competitive WoW tournaments, and actually watch how PvP in WoW is really played, not how you guys clumbsily fool around with, probably still using the mouse to click most of the abilities, and just not having the experience to really enjoy playing against excellently skilled opponents.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Ok, first of all, WoW pvp sucks because there is absolutely no way of doing it unless you join a bg (if u are on a normal server like me). It gets extremely boring and repetitive doing the same thing over and over until u arive at the break of insanity from all the fearing, stuning, instant pyroing, getting executed for like 8000, being slowed down, getting ganked left right and center...and u can even fall asleep...like wtf! what kind of pvp is this. Also, the pvp servers are no difference from normal servers except for the fact that u can kill some noobies running around. Theres no raiding cities or camps, or theres no scenarios other then those cheesy tower things, theres no kill an x amount of horde quests...im sry but it really does suck...
And another thing...the pvp sets are garbage. What was Blizzard thinking...pvp should be one of the most rewarding things to do of any game but they clearly want u to stay away from it or something. Probably cuz they know pvp in WoW is a joke.
you make some good points, the battlegrounds are indeed horrid. grinding the same BG over and over because it gives the most honor points when it is more pve than pvp anyways, is not my idea of a good pvp/honor system.
but i do like the arena pvp, the gear is the best gear in the game you can get for pvp and it is based off skill not leeching honor in a tunnel being afk the whole time.
wow's pvp mainly sucks in my opinion because it forces you to do shitty bg's that get extremely old after a while. they forced me to quit wow on more than one occasion.
When they killed world pvp with BGs. Now dont get me wrong the BGs were kind of fun.. but as someone else said make several maps for the different game types of pvp.
After Battlegrounds came out I rerolled everytime a new server came out. For the first couple months of the servers life the world pvp was booming. Thats another thing they really messed up on though. Waaaay too many servers (i wasnt one of the beggars and whiners always asking for them either btw.. id just go play my original server after the world pvp would die.. hmm guess i contributed to the problem, oh well. They shouldnt have made that many
)
On a PvP server, the Outlands is good PvP, but not outstanding. I agree with butters, waiting in line for bg's (up to an hour) and then doing the same repetitive thing over and over is frustrating, tedious, and gets boring. Since the implementation of the new combo realm bg's, the queue time for bg's, especially Alterac Valley, has shortened and is not quite as frustrating as it used to be.
I'm excited about Warhammer and the PvP (or RvR as they call it) should be outstanding. The game is based around it!
"I don't find that the PvP in WoW sucks, what I think sucks are the people out there that feel that to have a good time they have to be able to steal something from someone else ie: Looting the vanquished of items. There is a fundamental flaw in the character of an individual that feels the need to deprive something from someone else just to have fun. If you're in the park and knock out a passerby and then take his wallet what does that make you? To put the same kind of activity into a game setting is wrong thinking and caters to the opponents of online gaming.
I find it appalling that other games are even considering the ability to loot items from other characters, this is simply theft. Personally I would never play a game that condones this type of activity and I think a vast majority of the gaming community wouldn't as well which is why you will never see it in WoW."
You would sound just as smart saying people who play Starcraft are sociopaths because they like to knock down other people's buildings. How can these terrorists who go into a town and raze the entire town be allowed to walk around in normal society????1st off, there isn't player item looting in WOW. So wtf is this guy talking about? Second, if everyone agrees to play by those rules how the hell is it the same as knocking out a random person in a park? Maybe if the random person CHOSE the park knowing you were there, signed up saying he wanted to compete vs you for his wallet, and was trying to take your wallet too...... that would be a reasonable thing to write. What you wrote was so stupid it's criminal. I would lock you up for being so ignorant. Seriously.
~negatives~
1. only 2 factions
you have a very linear conflict when you only have a "good" and "evil" side. if you've never played a game with RvR or multi-faction pvp, you will not be able to comprehend what i'm saying. however, try to envision this......you are alliance, you're fighting a horde, all of a sudden....another faction called the "dragon people" (i know...stupid...just example) enters the picture and ganks both of you at low health. what do you do now? do you still try to kill the horde, do you kill the dragon people, or do you put your conflict with the horde guy aside for now and kill the dragon guy together?
2. battlegrounds - most of the pvp action is instanced and has little impact on the actual game world.
3. cross server battlegrounds
this was honestly the dumbest idea blizzard ever came up with. pvp is ALL about conflict. although i hate the 2 faction system that WoW incorporates, it wasn't so bad before X-server BGs because you were always on conflict with the other side on your server. everybody on the horde KNEW the players on the alliance for their given servers. pvp server "drama" was present in the BGs and you would see same teams often enough to develop strategies against certain guids and teams on the other side. with x-server BGs...all that went out the window. you play with different people on different servers every single game. 90% of the time, you'll never see the same people twice. but worst of all, the entire "server conflict" is now gone. i don't think i even know any of the alliance on my server because i rarely ever see them in BGs.
4. arena
this was such a great idea that completely crashed and burned...and imo destroyed the expansion. arena was suppose to be a place where good pvpers were rewarded. it was suppose to be a little world that blizzard created for hardcore pvpers. instead....arena has just become a joke and has severely damaged not only the pvp aspects of WoW but also the pve aspects.
the failure of the arena can be summed up in one sentence. *****Arena gear is BETTER than raid gear, and you get arena points for LOSING in arena.****
because arena gear is better than raid gear, it is now near impossible to get a guild to raid. guilds that could get 40+ people together pre-BC are now struggling to get 25 together. it is also harder than ever to get priest to go holy instead of shadow, pallies to go holy instead of ret, and warriors to go prot instead of ms/fury.
WoW is probably the most gear dependent game that i know of. since casual players can get almost half the points of a hardcore arena team by spending 1/10th of the time and effort.....you have a bunch of morons running around decked out in arena gear. everybody looks the same, has the same gear, and pvp has turned into 1-2 shot fest.
to summarize:
blizzard has dumbed down pvp over the years to cater to their player base. a large majority of WoW players are casual players or extremely bad players (young or just new to gaming). in order to keep these customers happy and keep subscribing, they make it so even the biggest donkey can get the best gear in the game with just a little more time than a hardcore player. since WoW's pvp system is so gear dependent, even the biggest donkey in the world can succeed in their pvp system if they pound their head on the keyboard long enough.
Human opponents = PvP.
K?
And please, just, don't, bother.... whining about PvE gear deciding the outcome of a fight - because this element of the game is overstated thanks to the diminishing returns you get at the high end. Skill plays a massive part of WoW PvP - greater than a lot of people understand or care to admit. RPGs are item based, MMOs are timesinks, and what is World of Warcraft? An MMORPG, a very popular RPG - that's probably more balanced than most other MMOs out there, despite what naysayers say.
Thus your ill-conceived complaints about WoW PvP are pretty much completely irrelevant. WoW PvP is fine, whiners say it takes no skill, but I seriously doubt most of it's detractors have the skill to seriously compete with the best players. WoW is also making headway in online competitive tournaments, because.. the PvP is that good.
Live in denial if you like, but if you put aside your WoW hate for a sec, check out this pretty neat WoW tournament vid on the front page of this site: www.thewsvg.com/
Or just Google for competitive WoW tournaments, and actually watch how PvP in WoW is really played, not how you guys clumbsily fool around with, probably still using the mouse to click most of the abilities, and just not having the experience to really enjoy playing against excellently skilled opponents.
Wasn't Blizzard's own tournament a massive failure because half the participants were banned due to Blizzard's own poor planning.
Didn't most of the pro-Korean players give up because it was too much of a time sink and they couldn't practice their other games enough.