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Indulge me, please
threetwosix
Member UncommonPosts: 85
Ya know...I haven't posted on these forums in a while but I feel that I need to say something.
It gets pretty frustrating to see people who recently started playing SWG(post NGE) make comments insulting the people who played before NGE. I'm refering to the pre-NGE players who no longer play and/or express their anger towards SOE, here. The majority of the angry pre-NGE players aren't angry because the game pales in comparison to what it used to be. They are angry at SOE as a company. Actually, some are even angry at Sony as a whole. Newer players can't possibly understand why pre-NGE players are angry but they still talk trash. Telling "Vets" where to go or throwing insults at them only shows ignorance. Pre-NGE players were completely screwed by SOE. SOme will say "Let it go". It can be argued then that "letting it go" only makes the problem grow worse. Alot of pre-NGE players post their comments and argue their perspectives for no other purpose than to help inform SWG curious MMO players.
Do you guys remember when SWG was released? The game had so many bugs that SOE turned off the in-game utility for players to report bugs. When players created a ticket to report missing items or even deleted characters, CSR replies were "Working as intended". (some of you will remember those times and are laughing with me right now)
Do you guys remember when Trials of ObiWan was released? Most of the new players won't. One of the HUGE selling points was some nice Creature Handler benefits. Some jewelry, if I recall and a small revamp. The CH forums were blazing with questions regarding the value of these items. SOE said nothing during this time. A week after (not much longer than that) NGE comes out of the blue. Removing Creature Handler from the game. SOE knew how excited people were but they didn't want to hear it. They only wanted to hear was cha-ching!! To top it off, initially, SOE refused refunds on the ToOW expansion.
Do you guys then remember when Sony music released the music CDs with the extra software that attempted to open a backdoor on EVERYONE'S PC that inserted the CD. It didn't even prompt the user to install it. The average user was none the wiser until the news blew up. Sony denied it for months. Guess what, they were lying.
My point is, try to understand where some of the "Vets" are coming from. Some, I will agree, are just plain ridiculous. Alot, however, are just standing up for what they believe in. I, for one, am not someone to encourage anyone to not stand up for what they believe in.
Thanks for listening,
Threetwosix
three2six
Comments
good post, that ToOW CH scam was bull $|-|!7. i was just getting into the Creature Handler / Bio-Engineer professions when NGE was unleashed.
It's been widely acknowledged how the who NGE came about, I was there and those players have every right to be angry. However, almost 2 years have passed by and pre-nge players continue to post utter nonsense when it comes to Galaxies 2007. How on earth can anyone make comments about a game that they no longer play? THAT is the point.
So called veterans think that they deserve respect for what happened - simply put - no. Respect has to be earnt and judging by alot of posts on here and other places, their flame wars and abuse doesn't give them any right to slate new players into the game who haven't a clue what happened in the past and are probably not interested.
Informing 'curious' MMO players with out of date information and old facts is not helping anyone. NGE happened in November 2005 and its really about time the 'OMG screw SOE' ship sails.....
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The battle between the SWG sucks and SWG is great crowd has been going on for a long time. Started before the NGE. I dont think vets are looking for respect or anything else from new players. They are just expressing how they feel. There is nothing you can do to stop it. Usually those threads just end up as huge flame wars anyways.
SWG will keep going on with its low population servers and loyal die hard players until either a new SW MMO is released or another SCI-FI game puts the final nail in its coffin. Until then the battle between the haters and lovers will continue. No reason to bitch and complain about it. As long as SWG exsists there will be forum drama.
It really comes down to this, it doesn't really matter what the different camps of players think about the past. We have no comtrol over it. Play it or don't play. You can complain or cheer it on all you like but in the end, it doesn't really matter. All the writing just gets lost in the jungle of threads that have been building up here over the the last 3 years all basically saying the same thing.
No one is arguing about the practices of SOE, its a crap company and the management is without a fraction of a clue. If they did, the Vanguard fiasco never would have happened with the SOE logo on it.
All this ammounts to is groups of people being a nuisanse to one another over something neither of them have any influence over or can do anything about.
The subject is a beat up, mutilated dead horse.
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If they insult me, fook'em.
I give everyone a fair shake. Not all NGE players are idiots. Not all vets are sane.
There's JO's on both sides of the fence.
I say if the NGE players want what the elders have, let them have it, just make them do the same grind for it. That's fair right?
That's really what most of the animosity is about, the stupid elder robes. I say let them get them, for the same amount of work. $5 says 1% of the people whining about it would actually do the work. The reward simply isn't worth it. grind for a year at 10% xp for stupid elder robes LOL. All they are is a badge of grindage. I won't stand in the way of anyone that wants to do that. Just don't complain when you realize they are mediocre and you could have put all that time into a better suit of statted clothing.
NEWSFLASH!
They aren't that great... They are a reward for all the hard work we did. I say Sony should allow anyone to do the hard work and get the reward and title. I just feel sorry for the people stupid enough to do it were Sony to allow this, LMAO. It's really not that great. I definitely felt grade schooled when I logged in a month ago and that's all I had for the year of pre-cu grinding I did.
I play because the game is becoming fun again for me and my son insisted on it and loves the game. I'd have never logged in again were it not for him... This is one pre-cu player that has let that water under the bridge. I just call them as I see them. I don't bitch about not being alpha and the only time the animosity wells up is when NGE players agro me just because I have an elder jedi. They can kiss my ass if they do that.
I kind of like the fact that Jedi is completely nerfed yet is still fun to play. You actually need to think. Simply mashing buttons doesn't work any more. I'd actually love to see it get nerfed even further so it's not the FOTM and everyone respecs. I'd still be playing mine.
-Viz
To the original poster, I remember those times when it seemed like everything you did was broken, lost items etc.
I remember all the classes we could play, I started and was 4/4/4/4 Ranger, I always play rangers. Building those camps was a really cool and unique idea. No I wasnt very strong in a battle but I had my purpose.
Yes I was around when the CH/Bio-Eng stuff was going on and all that other crap.
I started the village grind and did that for a while, then stopped because I could see where this was headed. I quit that and would up with a master commando.
Not to long after that I quit altogether, for all the reasons all the other old timers quit (I WAS PISSED)
But recently I bought the complete online adventures and resubbed. No its not like it used to be, but its Star Wars.
Where else can you ride around on a swoopbike an kill stormtroopers, see jedi and bounty hunters going at it.
No the game isnt what it used to be and I miss my Ranger, but I love Star Wars and this is the only place I can play it, and to be honest I enjoy it.
Do I wish it was the back the way it was before, sure I do, but I am still in the Star Wars Universe.
Since there not a chance of them going back to the old ways, I would like to see them do a graphics overhaul, more textures, more realizm in the landscape, better AI.
Add that instead of new content, the next release should be a graphics overhaul.
Just my opinions and thoughts.
A pre-NGE vet telling prospective players that the current game is crap and/or that it's a shade of its former self? Yup, uninformed and useless.
Telling them that the history of SWG is chock full of instances where the effort, relationships, and happiness of current players are sacrificed in the search for a larger playerbase from a different demographic? Absolutely appropriate.
I've said it before - I'd never turn a Star Wars fan away from SWG, but I'd tell them to think twice before getting attached to the game in the typical MMORPG sense.
1. The problem here is that it's the vets ( i am a vet Dec 03) that in my view have started this fued with the current players. They are the ones who drop names and call people idiots for playing a game they enjoy. No one deserves my respect for playing a video game. There actions and the way the carry themselves will warrent my respect. The "vets" on this forum are far worse at insulting and trying to belittle people who actually still play the game. So it does get frustrating hearing someone try to belittle someone else for having a different view. The "vets" have there own forum here and yet they fill the need to come and drop lines in the current. You know why b/c if they stayed in there forum they would not have anyone to argue or fight with which is all they are looking for.
2. Not everyone who plays is a newer player. Frankly alot of the "new" players don't give a Sh&* why they are angry or they already know and have heard it 100 times and are tired of hearing it at this point. They are tired of hearing the "vets" make statements that are flat out lies about the current state of the game. Again maybe you need to go back and read the forums around here. In my eyes the "vets" throw alot more insults and name calling than anyone else. Yes alot of people where screwed by SOE and LA with the change. The current players did not do it to them. They are just playing a game they enjoy, and what do they get for it? They get called idiots and losers and everything else that comes out of your " vets" mouths.
3. There is a reason there are 2 forums here. Most of the time the new players are not asking for there perspectives or they don't want there opinions. If someone comes into the current forum and ask about the game it is not a "vet" who has not played the game in some time opinion they are looking for. If they go in the vet forum then so be it it's fair game. The current players defend the game b/c the majority of what your "vets" are saying is complete made up BS or so out of date that it is just stupid. Some do have good arguements, most do not.
4. It is great to stand up for what you believe in and I have no problem with it, everyone should be that way. However it is not right to push your cause on to people who have not asked for it or don't want it and see things in a different light than you. Also it is not right to spew blatent lies when you are standing up for what you believe in. It simply makes you look ingnorant and angry.....
I will end this by saying again there are 2 sets of forums here for a reason. If people would stop jumping ship on both sides we would not have to see post like this anymore........
I have and never will play SWG. I look at it like this...if someone tells you a guy robbed his house and you say " oh well he can stay with me anyway". Everything might be fine. Might be the best house guest ever.
If after you were told what happened and let him come into your house anyway, wouldn't you feel like a jacka## if he robbed you?
Im not saying they are gonna pull the BS they did before but as an outsider to the problem I wouldn't want to take the chance.
I am glad for the warnings.
Kings and Sons of God
Travel on their way from here
Calming restless mobs
Easing all of their, all of their fear
Strange times are here.
Oh, and if you want an example of a company revamping their game like SOE did with NGE, then: EA and UO...
- They separated the gaming world into 2 worlds... Trammel (non-PvP) and Felucca (PvP). For the readers who never played UO, the game was one of the most hardcore free-PvP games around. People could kill you anywhere outside a city, and once they killed you, they could steal everything on your corpse (yes all items dropped to your corpse) at will. The only upside to this was, it was quite easy to replace majority of stuff, as items were either crafted by players or bought off npcs. People whined and cried about this change (mainly the hardcore PvPers/PKers) yet it still went through. Then, a lot of people quit that game.
- Then the Age of Shadows xpac came out. This turned the gaming world from requiring certain skills, like item lore (knowing the quality of your armor, weapons, etc...) and identification (knowning if the item is magical or not), and threw those out the window. All items had stats listed on the item. Therefore, no need for those skills anymore... *cough* sounds similiar? Also, it turned the game into a more loot-based centric game. Since everyone knew stats now, everyone wanted the best rather than what they could get their hands on (like before AoS)
- And, the bastardization of UO... Samurai xpac. Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a samurai or ninja in any of the previous ultima games, which UO was supposed to be based on, yet the EA developers decided to throw the orient in this game. Yeah... kind of sounds like the Jedi issue of Pre and post NGE.
So, before you think that SOE is the only bad seed, you should carefully think about this. Every company does things that their fanbase doesn't want, or screws with the original plan of the game world, so that they can aim for more subs. SOE is no different.Thats what I mean, we don't have any direct say. They do what they want. We have no control at all. Its a pointless argument between the player communities. Hell, they might do it again.... who knows with SOE? The old players couldn't get SOE to react to them so they turned on the current players to vent their frustrations. Not that the current players can do anything about it. /shrug.
Well you know that those pre-NGE fans have their own forum for this cause amongst others, heck´you even got yourself your own thread in every game that is connected to SOE. Why should they (and maybe you) have a right to derail this forum?
So if one would want to understand the pre-NGE read that forum.
If the pre-NGE people do not feel they get enough of attention of the 'outsiders/newcomers' in their own forum, that maybe can be interpretated as if they actually don't care.
Believe it or not some enjoy the current state of the game. As it is now not as it was and hopefully how it will become in the future.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
If you want to tear down EA as an MMORPG publisher, you don't have to venture anywhere near UO.
Just use the fact that they couldn't admit when the Sims Online went from sure-fire hit to total flop and instead of stopping the bleeding on TSO they simply shut down smaller, unrelated games like Earth and Beyond and Motor City Online.
I played both of those, MCO for around a year, and they had small but healthy communities. We got shut down so that EA could look better to uninformed shareholders who demanded some sort of action in the wake of the Sims flop.
EA has about as much chance to pick me up as a subscriber for one of their MMO's as SOE does, which is to say they have no chance.
1. The problem here is that it's the vets ( i am a vet Dec 03) that in my view have started this fued with the current players. They are the ones who drop names and call people idiots for playing a game they enjoy. No one deserves my respect for playing a video game. There actions and the way the carry themselves will warrent my respect. The "vets" on this forum are far worse at insulting and trying to belittle people who actually still play the game. So it does get frustrating hearing someone try to belittle someone else for having a different view. The "vets" have there own forum here and yet they fill the need to come and drop lines in the current. You know why b/c if they stayed in there forum they would not have anyone to argue or fight with which is all they are looking for.
2. Not everyone who plays is a newer player. Frankly alot of the "new" players don't give a Sh&* why they are angry or they already know and have heard it 100 times and are tired of hearing it at this point. They are tired of hearing the "vets" make statements that are flat out lies about the current state of the game. Again maybe you need to go back and read the forums around here. In my eyes the "vets" throw alot more insults and name calling than anyone else. Yes alot of people where screwed by SOE and LA with the change. The current players did not do it to them. They are just playing a game they enjoy, and what do they get for it? They get called idiots and losers and everything else that comes out of your " vets" mouths.
3. There is a reason there are 2 forums here. Most of the time the new players are not asking for there perspectives or they don't want there opinions. If someone comes into the current forum and ask about the game it is not a "vet" who has not played the game in some time opinion they are looking for. If they go in the vet forum then so be it it's fair game. The current players defend the game b/c the majority of what your "vets" are saying is complete made up BS or so out of date that it is just stupid. Some do have good arguements, most do not.
4. It is great to stand up for what you believe in and I have no problem with it, everyone should be that way. However it is not right to push your cause on to people who have not asked for it or don't want it and see things in a different light than you. Also it is not right to spew blatent lies when you are standing up for what you believe in. It simply makes you look ingnorant and angry.....
I will end this by saying again there are 2 sets of forums here for a reason. If people would stop jumping ship on both sides we would not have to see post like this anymore........
Ahh the same old I know more than you, my opinion means more than yours crap. But hey, at least this one was pretty and colorful. That made all the difference!!
As soon as the OP makes any reference to "vets" saying this, that, or the other thing, they (the "vets" have every right to come in to "your world" and have thier comments heard. If you want to state your opinion on a game..great! Once you start speaking for the oher side, all bets are off. You're just inviting comments from the other side at that point. No since griping about it, you asked for it.
Just to help clarify my point for you, who clearly missed my point, I used what EA has done to UO as an example that SOE isn't the only company that has messed with the core system of their game. I used this example as I have a direct knowledge of UO (2.5 yrs vet... 2 months of that after AoS and Samurai xpacs). A lot of NGE-haters claim that SOE is the only company that does these things. Therefore, that is why I gave an example of a company that has done the exact same things. It was not meant as a point to "tear down EA", to which you thought, or wanted, it to become. I can actually provide another example of Mythic and DAoC, but I won't. I have clearly stated what I wanted to state, which is to provide an example.
I also get your follow-up point, <Mod edit>
When you play all day leveling up doing quests and run into 3 people tops, is that DEAD or dying?
I've been there.Yet you don't see me put post after post here saying how i hate SOE for it.I started replaying half a year ago and played for bout 5 months.I had fun..no it wasn't like it used to be but i didn't come online expecting that.
The reason why many new players give the vets a biggy is because the vets keep on posting anti-stuff over and over and over again in the current forums.I bet you will not find one post on the current forum without the interviening of a vet saying how bad people are for playing and that they are retarded for playing such a game wich is empty/laggy/buggy/carbeargameplay/etc.I myself get sick of all the anti SOE posts..haven't posted in these parts of the forums for a month or more because basically i really really got fed up with it.
So what you are saying makes some sence, only problem is that you ask for newer players to be mild and understandable whilst the vets give the players who also where there from the beginning hell and flamefest in here.I really really feel sorry for people who can not let go over "what happened to them" over a game.You are not the only ones who experienced it but you decided to quit.Good for you but don't judge others who sticked around and are stillplaying it.That's not just for SOE it goes for more games.Look at archlord or eve online.I've seen a guy who posted bout 90 posts and all of them where only about how bad CCP is as a developer and their game eve online is.I mean come on...they didn't destroy your life they destroyed a game you played.If that hurts so much ... i really really hope those people never have reall bad times in life cause they won't be able to cope with that.And someare even complaining for over a year..even 2 years.Man i couldn't even bother to post that many hatred even if i got payed for it.Really get over it...a fewmonths i can understand.Half a year..well some people need a longer time i guess.But 1 or even over 2 years....i don't even have words to describe that.And i amnot only talking bout the people on the SWG forum because there are other forums on mmorpg.com and other onlinegame-sites that have the same kind of people/topics.
Like another guy today posted that they should close planetside because he counted the numbers of active players and it was as good as dead.He insisted on the fact they shouldpull the plug out of it.Idon't play planetside but i find it verry selfish to ask for a developer to pull the plug out of a game whileothers are still enjoying it.What i mean is many of the vets are just as selfish as SOE.They only think about what happened to them and don't stop to think that there are other players on these boards who also have gone through the samething but decided to stay.Everyone should decide for themselves.I have played many mmorpgs and had somereally really crappy developers/publishers on the way.Some like SOE changed my gamecompletely , others ran away with my cash.But i never ever started to put post after post on forums about how i was so wronged.Point is leave others to their own choice.Best thing mmorpg.comcould do in my opinion and i stated this before....remove SWG completely from this site because every post both in vet and in current still keeps on ending in a flamefest.And with this i mean BOTH parties are interacting/reacting in the wrong way so don't misreadmy words i amtalking bout both the current and the vet players who will not stay in their own part of the SWG forum.
In short....the new players will never stop flaming the vets because the vets will never stop coming into the current forums to flame the game....it's a circle.Don't ask for something to stop what you yourself are a big part of to start it in the first point.
I will not post in here again for a long timeafter this one because without doubt my words will be turned/twisted and wronged over and over.That is what allways happens in these parts of the forums.Either they call you a SOE-hater/troll or a SOE-fanboy/suckup.....
I can agree with one thing..SOE is a crappy publisher/devoleper......i agree fully.That doesn't stop me fromplaying their game wich is my choice.If you choose otherwise fine....
Have fun with the topic.......
Small edit to the OP....this post is not meant against your way of trying to bring the point over.I found your post verry realistic and nice.I only tried to explain why i think the vetsand new players will never understand each other.....If you start yelling at me , i won't listen to what you are saying and only substract that what i want out of it.Basically that is what mostly happens in here.Someone says wow i dig this bout the gameor that feature could be cool.....and in comes the maintrain steaming over them....now it would be hard for these people to try and understand/feel sorry for the players who just steamed over them for no reason what so ever.
People in here never listened to each other....they will not today...not tomorrow and not in a year.That's the wholeproblem.All you will see is people making small quotes out of replies and pull themtotally out of the context the poster put it.Then that guy comes back in makes a quote that's also totally wronged and flames back.And this goes on and on and on..till a new topic comes allgo there and back we start with the miss-interpreting and false quoting....
Ok, but iSWG droppping from the 300k subs of just before RotW or there abouts to the pitiful count of 35 to 50k the game has to today! By my math that is almost a 90% loss of customers.
I came back with an open mind, now I leave thinking soe is still about nothing but the money. the hell with a good game show me the money , the soe creed.
1. The problem here is that it's the vets ( i am a vet Dec 03) that in my view have started this fued with the current players. They are the ones who drop names and call people idiots for playing a game they enjoy. No one deserves my respect for playing a video game. There actions and the way the carry themselves will warrent my respect. The "vets" on this forum are far worse at insulting and trying to belittle people who actually still play the game. So it does get frustrating hearing someone try to belittle someone else for having a different view. The "vets" have there own forum here and yet they fill the need to come and drop lines in the current. You know why b/c if they stayed in there forum they would not have anyone to argue or fight with which is all they are looking for.
2. Not everyone who plays is a newer player. Frankly alot of the "new" players don't give a Sh&* why they are angry or they already know and have heard it 100 times and are tired of hearing it at this point. They are tired of hearing the "vets" make statements that are flat out lies about the current state of the game. Again maybe you need to go back and read the forums around here. In my eyes the "vets" throw alot more insults and name calling than anyone else. Yes alot of people where screwed by SOE and LA with the change. The current players did not do it to them. They are just playing a game they enjoy, and what do they get for it? They get called idiots and losers and everything else that comes out of your " vets" mouths.
3. There is a reason there are 2 forums here. Most of the time the new players are not asking for there perspectives or they don't want there opinions. If someone comes into the current forum and ask about the game it is not a "vet" who has not played the game in some time opinion they are looking for. If they go in the vet forum then so be it it's fair game. The current players defend the game b/c the majority of what your "vets" are saying is complete made up BS or so out of date that it is just stupid. Some do have good arguements, most do not.
4. It is great to stand up for what you believe in and I have no problem with it, everyone should be that way. However it is not right to push your cause on to people who have not asked for it or don't want it and see things in a different light than you. Also it is not right to spew blatent lies when you are standing up for what you believe in. It simply makes you look ingnorant and angry.....
I will end this by saying again there are 2 sets of forums here for a reason. If people would stop jumping ship on both sides we would not have to see post like this anymore........
Ahh the same old I know more than you, my opinion means more than yours crap. But hey, at least this one was pretty and colorful. That made all the difference!!
As soon as the OP makes any reference to "vets" saying this, that, or the other thing, they (the "vets" have every right to come in to "your world" and have thier comments heard. If you want to state your opinion on a game..great! Once you start speaking for the oher side, all bets are off. You're just inviting comments from the other side at that point. No since griping about it, you asked for it.
Ahh old wise one. You seen to know everything. Can you please tell me what the numbers for this weeks mega ball are????
First off I didn't studder when I said there are 2 forums for a reason. If the "vet" is not currently playing the game and they do not have any idea of the the current state then they should refrain from posting in the current forums. They have a whole big happy shiny forum here to.
Secondly I never said I know more than anyone or that my opinion is worth more than anyone elses. I left that up to your pompous ass.
If the vet is currently playing then by all means they have every right to come in here and post what ever there hearts desire.
I personally did not ask for anything especially your dusty old ancient opinion.
But please go brush up on the forum guidlines.