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Why isn't this game more successful?

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  • AbraxosAbraxos Member Posts: 412
    Originally posted by eugam


     

    Originally posted by Laiina


    Originally posted by Rydeson

    EQ2 failed for me because..
     
    1) ONLY having 2 starting cities (good & evil) was boring and lacked difference.. I enjoyed EQ1 and WoW because of the variety of starting cities and looks.. OMG, how I hated EQ2 and Vanguard because of their realistic colorless world.. I want cities with character.. I loved EQ's Misty, Greater Fay, and WoW's zones.. I want fantasy zones.. NOT some realism boring drab look..
    2) Not only were the cities drab and boring but too damn big .. OMG I hated taking 30 minutes running from one end to the other end.. WoW's cities are the perfect size..
    3) Forced grouping .. I couldn't solo worth a damn past 15th level... I hated the combat system of "heroic" moves or something like that.. the chain combat and grouped mobs was pure crap..
    4) Crafting was too dependent of others.. and with no 24/7 market like a bizarre.. It was just too much of a hassle.. WoW's crafting is very player friendly.. As so was EQ's.. till EQ got stupid with recipes AFTER PoP..
     

     

    it is pretty obvious from your comments that you have never played this game, as none of the above are true.


     

    No. 4 is true and 3 is half true. Way back in time crafting depended on others. Every profession needed the others for subcombines. No crafter was able to finish anything without subcombines made by other crafters. It was also true that you where only able to sell things on broker from a character online. When you logged out your shop was closed.

    Back then adventuring was much harder and people needed groups. Today almost all overland mobs are solo cons. Back then there have been a lot more heroic mobs romaing. You needed to do access quests for anything and you couldnt do those solo. Today you only need a group when entering an instance.

    I disagree on grouped mobs. Its the best system available in my opinion.

    However... EQ2 changed a lot until today. The game is much, much easier. Lost of solo content and even WoW like set armour farming is in game ;)

    1 and 2 were true but that's not the case now. Freeport and Qeynos became boring quick and cut the joy of each race having a seperate starting area with a different flavor. Now we have Neriak and Kelethin and Timmorous Deep is coming with Kunark. The two starting cities would've been better if you didn't have to zone five times to do a fifth level quest. The newer areas are much more seemless and intuiative.
  • bverjibverji Member UncommonPosts: 722
    When EQ2 came out I had trust issues with SOE anyway. EQ2 came out very broken and i dropped it out of disgust. I also found it hard to develope groups. the community was horrible and I didn't like that the class advancement was basically just getting the same skills over and over every 10 levels.
  • ConleyConley Member Posts: 195
     

     It has probably been written before in this thread, but one of the major reasons this game is not that succesful is It has probably been written before in this thread, but one of the major reasons this game is not that successful is that the game is completely unavailable in shops. Here in the Netherlands I never saw an Everquest 2 box, but I’ve seen every other game often in shops. When I finally tried to buy the game (the EoF expansion) here in the Netherlands, I was unable to get it, and I had visited many shops in my area (Utrecht). In multiple gameshops, I saw games like Lineage 2, Vanguard, City of Heroes/Villians, Archlord, RF-Online (yes even RFonline was obtainable in every shop), final fantasy 11, Dark Age of Camelot, and the list goes on and on but no EoF, no Everquest 2, nowhere.

     

    And it isn’t just unobtainable in shops, internet shops, of which the biggest in the Netherlands is BOL.com, also did not have any EQ2 stuff in stock. EoF is simply impossible to find. Finally I just bought a cd code online. I’ve heard the same of other European countries. Considering the fact that there are 1.5 million European WoW players in Europe, there is obviously a market. Also how come games no one plays like Archlord and RF online are obtainable in every shop but EQ2 isn’t?

     

    It’s frustrating and very strange, with WoW being such a success im sure lots of people would pick up EQ2 who are tired of WoW here in Holland and other European Countries. But if the game isn’t there, only hardcore gamers who persevere and have a creditcard will find their way to this game.

     

    And that’s another thing, most people in Europe don’t use creditcards but debitcards. With WoW and LotrO you can use your debitcard and your own bank account. Both games also have gamercards available in shops. For Everquest 2 there is no debit option at all and gamecards are even more unfindable then the game itself. A missed opportunity if you ask me, if SoE would manage these things better, mixed with perhaps a little marketing, they could sell far more copies.

  • NHO3NHO3 Member Posts: 84
    Personally I don't like the style of the game. I feel that all the male characters look girly and I don't like the combat system, but thats just me.
  • EindrachenEindrachen Member Posts: 211

    EQ2 is, to me, the most technically superior game on the MMO market.  But the one time I tried it, it just wasn't that great.  The strain on my system was harsh, even with graphics turned way down.  There was practically no online guide or support that wasn't so out-of-date, incomplete, or confusing as hell that it didn't make me actually wish EQ2 wasn't as detailed (the very thing that had drawn me to it to begin with).

    I really wanted to like it.  But it was just not... there, for me.  Perhaps if I ever buy a better PC, maybe I'll come back to it.

  • JarlathJarlath Member Posts: 174
    Originally posted by Conley

     
     It has probably been written before in this thread, but one of the major reasons this game is not that succesful is It has probably been written before in this thread, but one of the major reasons this game is not that successful is that the game is completely unavailable in shops. Here in the Netherlands I never saw an Everquest 2 box, but I’ve seen every other game often in shops. When I finally tried to buy the game (the EoF expansion) here in the Netherlands, I was unable to get it, and I had visited many shops in my area (Utrecht). In multiple gameshops, I saw games like Lineage 2, Vanguard, City of Heroes/Villians, Archlord, RF-Online (yes even RFonline was obtainable in every shop), final fantasy 11, Dark Age of Camelot, and the list goes on and on but no EoF, no Everquest 2, nowhere.
     
    And it isn’t just unobtainable in shops, internet shops, of which the biggest in the Netherlands is BOL.com, also did not have any EQ2 stuff in stock. EoF is simply impossible to find. Finally I just bought a cd code online. I’ve heard the same of other European countries. Considering the fact that there are 1.5 million European WoW players in Europe, there is obviously a market. Also how come games no one plays like Archlord and RF online are obtainable in every shop but EQ2 isn’t?
     
    It’s frustrating and very strange, with WoW being such a success im sure lots of people would pick up EQ2 who are tired of WoW here in Holland and other European Countries. But if the game isn’t there, only hardcore gamers who persevere and have a creditcard will find their way to this game.
     
    And that’s another thing, most people in Europe don’t use creditcards but debitcards. With WoW and LotrO you can use your debitcard and your own bank account. Both games also have gamercards available in shops. For Everquest 2 there is no debit option at all and gamecards are even more unfindable then the game itself. A missed opportunity if you ask me, if SoE would manage these things better, mixed with perhaps a little marketing, they could sell far more copies.
    I agree here, I had to DDL mine :(



    I think the reason it's unavailable is that the European distributor (it's not SoE, some other company) did not make enough copies available. And now a few months down the line they decided not to actually make anymore as the new expansion is coming out in november or round about then, and it will contain all previous expansions.
  • I just looked and it is available on Amazon.UK but don't know about anything closer.
  • kjemperkjemper Member Posts: 181

    Reply to the OP:

    All anyone has to do is a little research to see that SOE has an extremely bad reputation.  Word of mouth and online communities are a games most powerful marketing tool.  Unfortunately SOE has blown it with that with their previous business model that had them releasing games prematurely.  They are finally learning from their mistakes and trying to improve, but the damage is done and it takes alot of time to change the public's position on a company.  They have alot of skilled developers working for them, and hopefully their new business plans allow those developers the ability to create more polished content than they have in the past.

  • NihilanthNihilanth Member Posts: 1,357
    As someone who's played EQ2 on and off since December 2004, I feel like I have something to say on this topic.  Let me first start by saying that I never played EQ1, nor do I have any desire to compare EQ2 to it.  They're two completely different games and should be treated as such.



    What originally attracted me to EQ2 was the idea of a new MMO with good graphics and what I thought at the time were some cool features.  What kept me in EQ2 initially was the gameplay.  What has made me leave it is the tedium and gradually increasing level of boredom, and what has consistently made me come back is the absolutely amazing community.  While I would love to see EQ2 flourish in terms of population, it really doesn't matter to me.  The community on my server is alive and well enough to keep the game going for as long as I care to play it, and I've made friendships on EQ2 that I never used to believe could actually happen in an online situation.  There are people in this game I don't ever want to lose touch with in some form of fashion.



    However, as I've said, I have left the game several times, so there must be something wrong with the game in some way.  Every game has its faults, and EQ2 has its fair share.  For starters, as much as I used to defend it back when it first came out, and as much as I hated seeing people come on to the EQ2 boards back in late '04 and early '05 flaming my game into oblivion, at this point I have to admit many of their criticisms were well-founded.  The game was horribly unfinished when it launched, and it took several huge gameplay changes/patches and one massive "Combat-Upgrade" that nearly destroyed the population (ask any veteran EQ2 about LU13 and they'll immediately know what you're talking about) to make me realize that.  SOE has this nasty habit of trying to change the engine of a 747 while it's in-flight, and they've pushed a lot of people away because of it.  First impressions last a lifetime, and they lost more customers in the first 6 months the game was out than they could have if they'd taken more time before releasing it.  And now they've been playing catch-up ever since.  The game as it stands today is astronomically better than it was 2+ years ago, but most of the people who have left don't know or don't care.



    Second, as has already been said, there really wasn't much marketing for EQ2.  The only real ads I consistently saw were on MMORPG-centric sites such as this once, places where most viewers already knew what it was.  WoW doesn't need marketing, because Blizzard's name carries weight thanks to Starcraft, Warcraft, and Diablo.  A lot of people don't even realize WoW requires a monthly fee when they first buy it, they just see the nice Blizzard logo and snatch it up right away.  Then when they figure out they need a credit card, they've already dropped the $50 bucks for the retail box so they figure, what the hell?  SOE and EverQuest has never had that.  Talk to 10 random people in the electronic section of your local Wal-Mart or Target, and I guarantee at least 5 will have played at least 1 Blizzard game.  Ask those same 10 people if they've ever played EverQuest, and you'll be lucky to get a single soul who has.  If Sony wanted a really successful game, they should have done a hell of a lot more to let people know it even existed.  They failed miserably in that regard.



    Lastly, EQ2 just flat out isn't as accessibly as a game like WoW.  They've gone miles since release in terms of making the game more solo-friendly, to the point where with the recent addition of Neriak and Darklight Woods, I can get a character from 1-20 EASILY in one day just doing quests and nothing else.  However, that doesn't change the fact that once you get past that the hand-holding stops and you have to go looking for your own stuff to do.  Nor does it change the fact that while EQ2 looks great when you can run it with all the bells and whistles turned on, it chugs along on one of the least efficient engines I've ever seen in my entire life.  Most people can't run the game anywhere near the its max settings while soloing in a deserted area.  Forget grouping, and don't even THINK about raiding.  That alone alienates EQ2 from probably 2/3 of WoW's population.



    All of that said, I love EQ2.  I've hopped around various MMOs in the times I've quit, but I always come back to EQ2.  EQ2 is in my personal opinion the best MMO currently on the market FOR ME, and I don't want to play anything else right now.  Would I like to see it attract more players and be the mega-hit I'm sure SOE wants it to be?  You bet, as long as it doesn't sacrifice the community I love so much, I want this game to do as well as it can.  However, do I think the game is dead/dying because it doesn't have those numbers?  No way in hell.

    Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
    Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
    XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT

  • fozzie22fozzie22 Member Posts: 1,003
    EQ2 is a fine wine to be drunk slowly and enjoyed..WOW is a bottle of pepsi full of fizz but leaves you feeling bloted and bored by the end of it
  • SeggallionSeggallion Member UncommonPosts: 684
    Picked up EQ2 again 1 month ago, and the game is one of the best "new" out.

    Hard to compare the gameplay now and at launch.



    For me the content and community are the best. Maybe Ryzom has better content, have not play it so much.

    ______________________________
    The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
    And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
    and send them to the Special Olympus.

  • Originally posted by NHO3

    Personally I don't like the style of the game. I feel that all the male characters look girly and I don't like the combat system, but thats just me.



    Hmm.. some dwarf with a big sword and shield and a long beard looks "girly" to you?

    OK...

  • Originally posted by fozzie22

    EQ2 is a fine wine to be drunk slowly and enjoyed..WOW is a bottle of pepsi full of fizz but leaves you feeling bloted and bored by the end of it
    I have been playing LOTRO for a few weeks, and exactly the same thing can be said about that as WOW.
  • CharslesTCharslesT Member Posts: 366
    Ya.  I do not play EQ 2 that much. It cannot hold me at all. I just play Vanguard now but eq 2 once in a while.

    Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.

  • berryg2005berryg2005 Member Posts: 40
    Originally posted by Nihilanth

    First impressions last a lifetime, and they lost more customers in the first 6 months the game was out than they could have if they'd taken more time before releasing it.  And now they've been playing catch-up ever since.  The game as it stands today is astronomically better than it was 2+ years ago, but most of the people who have left don't know or don't care.

    That's really all that needs to be said in regards to why the game isn't doing better.  I am exactly the type of player that Nihilanth mentioned.  I got bored of the buggy and over-nerfed SWG (before CU and NGE) and left for CoH.  I came back to play EQ2 when it launched, and stayed through the frustrating gameplay and freaking crafting system that could actually kill you until SOE started the nickle and dime routine, gouging customers for more character slots, new content, etc - while at the same time admitting they lied about the Frogloks being in the game the same way they'd done with Jedi in SWG.  It was at that point I cancelled EQ2 and swore never to give SOE another dime ever again. 



    Several months later I heard from many people that EQ2 was a changed game.  That it was different.  That it was fun now.  And I am glad folks enjoy it, but I'll never give SOE another chance. 
  • RizlawRizlaw Member UncommonPosts: 150
    EQ IS THE BOMB.
  • JeranaJerana Member Posts: 10
    Originally posted by berryg2005

    Originally posted by Nihilanth

    First impressions last a lifetime, and they lost more customers in the first 6 months the game was out than they could have if they'd taken more time before releasing it.  And now they've been playing catch-up ever since.  The game as it stands today is astronomically better than it was 2+ years ago, but most of the people who have left don't know or don't care.

    That's really all that needs to be said in regards to why the game isn't doing better.  I am exactly the type of player that Nihilanth mentioned.  I got bored of the buggy and over-nerfed SWG (before CU and NGE) and left for CoH.  I came back to play EQ2 when it launched, and stayed through the frustrating gameplay and freaking crafting system that could actually kill you until SOE started the nickle and dime routine, gouging customers for more character slots, new content, etc - while at the same time admitting they lied about the Frogloks being in the game the same way they'd done with Jedi in SWG.  It was at that point I cancelled EQ2 and swore never to give SOE another dime ever again. 



    Several months later I heard from many people that EQ2 was a changed game.  That it was different.  That it was fun now.  And I am glad folks enjoy it, but I'll never give SOE another chance.  I understand what you are saying here, and I was one who said I am never going back (after one of the sweeping changes that totally revamped combat) and this was after 6 months of that same frustrating gameplay. I was an SOE hater.



    I caved. I tried WoW, I tried EVE, COH, DDO and a bunch of others. I came back to EQ2 2 months later and have played pretty regularly. It is a changed game. My cousin resorted to psychological torture to get me to come over to WoW (spam e-mails, game updates every day, screenshots etc) So I went to WoW to try it. I played a toon up into the 40's and everything I did I thought, man, EQ2 does this better. I liked how groups operated in EQ2, I liked how the different classes were set up in EQ2 and how it seemed to take more strategy to bring down mobs etc. Now I am not saying WoW wasn't fun, all I am saying is I liked EQ2 better.



    Now I know that last statement is flamebait, but it was my opinion after playing multiple toons on EQ2 for 2+ years and playing WoW for over 6 months. I like EQ2 better for combat, raiding strategy and overall gameplay. Barrens chat in WoW was almost enough to convince me anyway...



    And yes, I felt dirty for going back to SOE, but I didn't pay for those "nickel and dime" extras - don't need them and they don't add a lot of value for me (again an opinion). What I found was SOE started adding free content, the new expansion had neat stuff with it and I still haven't explored the whole world or raided every zone there is.



    SOE appears to be listening to the community, they are more open on the forums about things they are doing and the pvp side is coming along as they have opened a pvp test server and are allowing people to copy pvp toons over to it. So those who want to make things better can go and do that.



    I even have faith that they can fix Vanguard. Of course they want money and are money hungry - so is Blizzard. So is any company that wants to stay in business. SOE is not my friend and I will always keep one eye open so to speak, but as for finding other games out there, this one is still the best to play in my opinion. And if you read other forums for other games you can see the people screaming and beating their chests over how "X gaming company screwed me..." You did the right thing by you and voted with the only weapon we have, our subscription fee. In the end it comes down to we are the ones who pay and have control, if we keep paying for something bad, we only have ourselves to blame.




  • dpf1978dpf1978 Member UncommonPosts: 71
    The whole "I will never give SOE money again" argument is just stupid.  It's like saying "I will never eat again because this hamburger made me sick."



    You're just hurting yourself.  If you think that Blizzard or Mythic cares about their players more than Sony, you're very confused about a great many things.  They're all just trying to make a buck, so play what gives you enjoyment.
  • berryg2005berryg2005 Member Posts: 40
    Originally posted by dpf1978

    The whole "I will never give SOE money again" argument is just stupid.  It's like saying "I will never eat again because this hamburger made me sick."
    Well no, that analogy doesn't work.  If those of us who have vowed never to give SOE another dime of our cash were quitting all MMO's because of SOE's jackassery, then yes your analogy would work.  Instead, to use food and your frame of reference, we're choosing not to eat at the specific restaurant where we got sick.

    Originally posted by dpf1978

    You're just hurting yourself.  If you think that Blizzard or Mythic cares about their players more than Sony, you're very confused about a great many things.  They're all just trying to make a buck, so play what gives you enjoyment.
    I know Blizzard doesn't care about me - no idea about Mythic.  I will be playing Warhammer, and if Mythic starts to let off a litany of lies the way SOE and John Smedley have, or if their development team continually proves that they have their heads up their butts the way Blizzard does, then yeah I'll have a problem with Mythic.  Same goes for Turbine (LOTRO, which I am now playing) or Cryptic and CoH/CoV, or Funcom with AoC or Flying Labs with PotBS.
  • Ironman2000Ironman2000 Member UncommonPosts: 310
    Ok, i strongly believe its not more successful because of POOR ADVERTISING and the game changed too much over time.  People constantly say the game has gotten better, but there was nothing wrong with it when it first came out.  Each expansion pack brought huge sweeping changes that if they were going to do, should have been done before they launched the game.  People got upset with them, and bad word of mouth spread.  Without the good advertising, the bad word of mouth spread further then the good things.  The game is actually getting better now, but the damage was done with sweeping changes and lousy advertising campaigns.  Not much you can do with it now, because SoE is in the cut back mode, where they cut back on the A team of devs and bring in the lower paid B team to just "Maintain" the game and keep it operating.  Though I have to say, some of the newer updates (the last two in fact) were very nice changes, but most of them should have gone in at the same time as the Echoes of Faydwer expansion.  Thats another thing that bothers me, people get so excited with the new free content that SoE has added, but things like "Estate of Unrest", "Neriak" and the "Arasai" race were all supposed to be part of Echoes of Faydwer, all SoE did was not put them in at launch and make everyone wait for them as "Free Content Updates", but that lends itself to the bad word of mouth, thats hurt subscription numbers....
  • LumberghLumbergh Member Posts: 123

    Just to let you know, Mythic sucks the worst of any game company.

     

    ***EDIT***  they are AT LEAST as bad as SOE.

    If you played DAOC for any ammount of time, you would know

     

     

    mmmm yeeeah, thats greeat, a little to the left would be greeeat, ::sips coffee mug:::

  • truenorthbgtruenorthbg Member Posts: 1,453
    Originally posted by Lumbergh


    Just to let you know, Mythic sucks the worst of any game company.
     
    ***EDIT***  they are AT LEAST as bad as SOE.
    If you played DAOC for any ammount of time, you would know
     
     
    EA is the worst and apparently Mythic and EA are developing a game together.

    -----
    WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
    I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.

  • MeridionMeridion Member UncommonPosts: 1,495
    MMOGs by Market Share

    Source. MMOGdata.com / For information on how statistics on the site are gained, visit the Information page.



    Disclaimer: I'm not playing EQ2 nor WoW atm. But doubting the fact that World of Warcraft is an aircraft carrier compared to a nutshell populationwise is ridiculous.



    I agree with many statements though, bad launch, un-appealing equipment, bland landscape design, extremely high hardware req. for what you get gfx and animationwiese - kind of sums it up...



    Oh, and Vanguard kind of stepped into the same trap. Bad launch, high hardware, bad animations, un-motivating gameplay. It will eventually get better I guess, still, it will never be a major success...
  • JohnhostJohnhost Member Posts: 146
    Everquest 2 lacks something HUGE that the more popular MMORPG's are doing...MARKETING!



    Specifically marketing in the game stores.  From what I understand Gamestop and EBgames charges game publishers to get their products on the top shelf.  Since SOE doesn't do this the games are put somewhere out of sight.  Since their not getting visability they are left with word of mouth and their trials to sell their games.  Expansion packs might get some marketing out, but basically their marketing of the game is just sad.



    Echoes of Faydwer is no where to be found in Europe?  And this is a ripe market for video games!  Sony needs to really push the marketing up for this game, because the community drives the success.  Additionally SOE is almost unheard of in Asian markets, whereas WoW is all over there.



    Why isn't EQ2 doing really well in the "adult, US and UK market"?  That is SOE's main customers, American males in their 20's and 30's.  Now why isn't SOE marketing more to them?  Why is SOE ads not littered on MMORPG.com and Fileplanet and other game sites?  Right now Fury has WAY more exposure then EQ2. 



    The game has come along way.  It's putting back in the EQ nastalgia, it's pretty darn user friendly and death can't get any more meaningless.  All they need now is a growing community of brand new players.

    image

  • MeridionMeridion Member UncommonPosts: 1,495
    That's all very true...



    I can speak for the German crowd:



    Localization is awful, where WoW, Guildwars or LotRO offer top notch national support (with German GMs, support, translation), EQ2 is



    ----> horribly translated textwise, It manifests in something like: "Hit you stingweaponinjuriconditioned for 17 points damage of". And this is - sad enough - NOT overexaggerated. It really IS that bad



    ----> Foreigners work on your tickets and answer something like "you hello at the moment we not can help problem". I mean, what the hell, is my money worth less than the english speakers? Well, it's not my problem as my english is ok, but many many non-english speakers would play this game if it wasn't supported so badly.



    ----> Connecting from Germany is Lag-o-Rama. Where other publishers offer fast backbone solutions even for players from the end of the world; I'm sitting in 340 people/sqm central europe and have a constant 450 ms ping???



    It's a joke, honestly, even the f2p Guildwars has a German district with decent connection and native speaking support...



    Meridion
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