Turbine rules - who knew

mmochance · June 2007

Turbine has really come into its own.

While I don't agree with the chosen setting of little known (or cared about) Eberron for DDO [Planescape would have been so much more fun IMO], DDO has progressed quite nicely. Solo gaming is being improved and the game has been expanded regularly and professionally. However, not including randomization in regards to instanced dungeons and like was a gross oversight.

Middle-Earth has been lovingly reproduced in Turbines latest MMO. I have been pleasantly surprised by the fun and depth I have encountered with my Elven Ranger. The latest update was well visioned and implemented with better things to come I am sure.

One thing is proving out : Turbine is committed to excellence and responds to their customers.

As for me, I will continue my adventures in Middle-Earth and will be dropping Vanguard to return to DDO.

I have become a Turbine loyalist.

I would never have guessed I would utter such a confession a year ago.

flood950 · June 2007

Reopen the ACII servers!!!!

Sevenwind · June 2007

I just hope the survey they sent out to a few people about an all games pass like SOE station pass was a positive one. I never got an email survey, but I would sign up for a type of service. I currently have a LOTRO and DDO sub, but would also love to return to AC.

Yeah I would love for an AC2 return even if they did not add any new content to it and just fixed exploits and the bugs that come up. They could offer it as a download only game. Wishful thinking I know.

pkim96 · June 2007

Heh, this is kinda funny to hear because back when I used to play AC2, Turbine got a huge share of the flames from disgruntled players. There was quite a lot of worry that Turbine would totally screw up the D&D and LOTR MMO's. Mixed degrees of trust from players regarding Turbine's abilities.

As for AC2, I honestly don't think you'd enjoy it if you had a chance to play it again. Back when AC2 was active, there weren't a lot of other choices, so it was a little harder to see just how bad AC2 was in comparison to games now. Yes, it had some good points, but it had an awful lot of bad points.

johny877 · June 2007

Turbine are good and they do achive excellence but Codemasters (EUs host) can't even make a proper payment system, even if your card is declined somehow they still take payments off your card, some people even had 10 £100 lifetime subscriptions and i can't even get them to except my card. In other news i would like to play the new expansion pack that they helded back to give them a good public image(seriously i would like to play the new content).

mmochance · June 2007

I am in full agreement with you Seven. A Turbine pay pass would be ideal considering the quality games they could group. I would think it feasible to pay $25 for full access to AC, DDO and LotRO.

WARCRYtm · June 2007

At the moment Turbine is The Best developer in my opinion

Talyn · June 2007

Turbine recently sent out a random survey to some of their subscribers asking for input. A multi-game pass was one of the items on the survey so it's probably coming.

And yeah, I'd love to see AC2 revived and fixed up. Or... AC3!

The AC2 trial was my very first MMOG experience ever. Was cool but not much population and empty buildings so I didn't subscribe or get to see much of the world. The impression from reading about AC2 was that it was actually a pretty good game on its own right (bugs notwithstanding) but it was so drastically different from AC1 that the fans trashed it and (much like what will likely happen to both Vanguard and SWG) never, ever, forgive it or go back.

Vaedur · June 2007

Originally posted by Talyn

Turbine recently sent out a random survey to some of their subscribers asking for input. A multi-game pass was one of the items on the survey so it's probably coming.
And yeah, I'd love to see AC2 revived and fixed up. Or... AC3!
The AC2 trial was my very first MMOG experience ever. Was cool but not much population and empty buildings so I didn't subscribe or get to see much of the world. The impression from reading about AC2 was that it was actually a pretty good game on its own right (bugs notwithstanding) but it was so drastically different from AC1 that the fans trashed it and (much like what will likely happen to both Vanguard and SWG) never, ever, forgive it or go back.

Nah.. AC2's issue was it was the first of the next gen mmo's (or 2nd gen) and noone could run it.. seriously

It was like vanguard,where when it was released you need a hell of a system.. everyone from ac1 went back cause most of us couldn't play it.. and yeah it was way too different..

AC1 is still the best mmo i've played (or was the most fun) and IMO turbine is one hell of a company. .i loved how they gave so much content so often and had real events..

vae

Perception · June 2007

It always amuses me when the blindly faithful Turbine fans flock together to propagate disinformation and false praise.

AC1... regarded by many AC1 fans as the best game ever made. According to MMOGCHART.COM AC1's population peaked at 120k subs, and over the course of the next few years, dropped to fewer than 10k subs. Seems a bit unusual for the best game ever made to lose 90% of its player base. Perhaps it was the constant bugs that allowed for duping, perching, and general cheating. Perhaps it was Turbine's lax attitude when it came to allowing unattended combat macros and other 3rd party programs. For the greatest game ever made, it sure seems like the vast majority of its player base doesn't like it anymore. This game is all but forgotten.

AC2... Excuses were in plentiful supply throughout this games history. "It was Microsoft's fault". "The game needs a high end PC to run". "You are not playing the game right". However, the facts in the matter are obvious. The game was simply horribly implemented, had god-awful combat dynamics, and the heavy handed nerfing from Turbine sealed its fate. Then Turbine showed its true dedication to its fans by pulling one of the most despicable acts in MMORPG history. They released an expansion pack, but then closed the game down shortly after. Truly, and excellent company...

DDO... In the months leading up to its release, this game was heralded by its fans as being the new all time greatest game to grace the planet. The mother of all RPG fantasy, Dungeons and Dragons, was coming. What arrived was a shallow, instance based, dungeon crawler with frustrating controls and combat dynamics, set in a claustrophobic city in possibly the worst DnD campaign ever. Its current subscriber rate is said to be below 50k. A far cry from the millions its fans were proclaiming it would attain.

LOTRO... The die hard Turbine fans yet again had a new mother of all fantasies to proclaim would hit millions of subscribers, but after just 2 months, the sales charts show otherwise. While accumulating a respectable estimated 200k subs worldwide, Turbine recently introduced their unique gameplay mechanics balancing ideas to its populace, and the general tone of message boards is that the players are not happy. The third game to utilize the recycled T2 engine, its similarities in performance are obvious to anyone with experience with Turbines past 2 games. As with both AC2 and DDO, the initial reaction of players is "Best game ever", but time and Turbine change all things, and the milk has already been soured. Expect massive turnover rates in this game. Without the coveted LOTR IP, this game would never had made a mark in the first place, IMHO.

So, Turbine fans... enjoy patting each other on the back for the time being. That time will soon draw to an end.

SWGLover · June 2007

AC2's biggest problem was David Bowman, plain and simple.

gnomexxx · June 2007

I miss AC2 as well.

I've always admired Turbine. Mostly because they are the company that puts out the most updates to their games and have held true to that model. To me that just shows they are taking the money I pay and actually putting it back into development. That keeps the game fresh and new.

ladyattis · June 2007

Originally posted by Perception
It always amuses me when the blindly faithful Turbine fans flock together to propagate disinformation and false praise.
Source for said claims?
AC1... regarded by many AC1 fans as the best game ever made. According to MMOGCHART.COM AC1's population peaked at 120k subs, and over the course of the next few years, dropped to fewer than 10k subs. Seems a bit unusual for the best game ever made to lose 90% of its player base. Perhaps it was the constant bugs that allowed for duping, perching, and general cheating. Perhaps it was Turbine's lax attitude when it came to allowing unattended combat macros and other 3rd party programs. For the greatest game ever made, it sure seems like the vast majority of its player base doesn't like it anymore. This game is all but forgotten.
Population doesn't always matter. UO was great for a time, too, and I doubt it even made past 250K subscribers. Please don't go for the fallacy of popularity, it just doesn't work. Give me a case where you had a skills based game like AC 1 that wasn't popular or considered innovative by industry heads, then I'll listen to you.
AC2... Excuses were in plentiful supply throughout this games history. "It was Microsoft's fault". "The game needs a high end PC to run". "You are not playing the game right". However, the facts in the matter are obvious. The game was simply horribly implemented, had god-awful combat dynamics, and the heavy handed nerfing from Turbine sealed its fate. Then Turbine showed its true dedication to its fans by pulling one of the most despicable acts in MMORPG history. They released an expansion pack, but then closed the game down shortly after. Truly, and excellent company...
AC2 was horribly implemented, no doubt, but this was due to their hyperfocus on the graphical engine and little regard on gameplay. The T2 engine is still one of the best engines I've seen and it still works well even on lower end systems today. As for gameplay, it was bugged, but it matured as time went on. Too bad, they took too long to fix it. Basically, never release a beta is the lesson there.
DDO... In the months leading up to its release, this game was heralded by its fans as being the new all time greatest game to grace the planet. The mother of all RPG fantasy, Dungeons and Dragons, was coming. What arrived was a shallow, instance based, dungeon crawler with frustrating controls and combat dynamics, set in a claustrophobic city in possibly the worst DnD campaign ever. Its current subscriber rate is said to be below 50k. A far cry from the millions its fans were proclaiming it would attain.
I'd like a more valid source than MMOGchart for these numbers. The last time I heard DDO actually has about 180K active accounts, so it's still making a profit. So, please, no bunkery, just facts. And cite the sources for them.
LOTRO... The die hard Turbine fans yet again had a new mother of all fantasies to proclaim would hit millions of subscribers, but after just 2 months, the sales charts show otherwise. While accumulating a respectable estimated 200k subs worldwide, Turbine recently introduced their unique gameplay mechanics balancing ideas to its populace, and the general tone of message boards is that the players are not happy. The third game to utilize the recycled T2 engine, its similarities in performance are obvious to anyone with experience with Turbines past 2 games. As with both AC2 and DDO, the initial reaction of players is "Best game ever", but time and Turbine change all things, and the milk has already been soured. Expect massive turnover rates in this game. Without the coveted LOTR IP, this game would never had made a mark in the first place, IMHO.
Um citation for said claims of said users? When did a couple fanboys become the voice of the whole of the userbase that plays LOTRO? This to me marks you as a troll, for which I have little tolerance. If you want to generalize, I find you a spot on the Fox News punditary shows, kk?
So, Turbine fans... enjoy patting each other on the back for the time being. That time will soon draw to an end.
And this from a man who likes the work of a moral subjectivist (Nietzsche)... I think I'll take my own opinion, considering I know what I like, unlike you.

-- Brede

Ciredric · June 2007

Perception, nothing like a very jaded view. Your post was so full of wrong presumptions that it was more laughable than readable.

Turbine is not the perfect developer, but when you put them against some of the other players in this genre, they really look much better. Mythic or as I call them nerf-a-lot, has had far less success. SOE, continues to turn every game they touch to lead. Blizzard is the only developer that can be considered better because of their success with Wow and Blizzard does not listen to it's playerbase like Turbine does, nor do they continally add content, like Turbine does. I won't go into the asian companies as they have yet to have a successful game in the North American/European market.

So your post just exhibits your ignorance of the genre.

Keebs1984 · June 2007

Originally posted by Perception

It always amuses me when the blindly faithful Turbine fans flock together to propagate disinformation and false praise.

AC1... regarded by many AC1 fans as the best game ever made. According to MMOGCHART.COM AC1's population peaked at 120k subs, and over the course of the next few years, dropped to fewer than 10k subs. Seems a bit unusual for the best game ever made to lose 90% of its player base. Perhaps it was the constant bugs that allowed for duping, perching, and general cheating. Perhaps it was Turbine's lax attitude when it came to allowing unattended combat macros and other 3rd party programs. For the greatest game ever made, it sure seems like the vast majority of its player base doesn't like it anymore. This game is all but forgotten.

AC2... Excuses were in plentiful supply throughout this games history. "It was Microsoft's fault". "The game needs a high end PC to run". "You are not playing the game right". However, the facts in the matter are obvious. The game was simply horribly implemented, had god-awful combat dynamics, and the heavy handed nerfing from Turbine sealed its fate. Then Turbine showed its true dedication to its fans by pulling one of the most despicable acts in MMORPG history. They released an expansion pack, but then closed the game down shortly after. Truly, and excellent company...

DDO... In the months leading up to its release, this game was heralded by its fans as being the new all time greatest game to grace the planet. The mother of all RPG fantasy, Dungeons and Dragons, was coming. What arrived was a shallow, instance based, dungeon crawler with frustrating controls and combat dynamics, set in a claustrophobic city in possibly the worst DnD campaign ever. Its current subscriber rate is said to be below 50k. A far cry from the millions its fans were proclaiming it would attain.

LOTRO... The die hard Turbine fans yet again had a new mother of all fantasies to proclaim would hit millions of subscribers, but after just 2 months, the sales charts show otherwise. While accumulating a respectable estimated 200k subs worldwide, Turbine recently introduced their unique gameplay mechanics balancing ideas to its populace, and the general tone of message boards is that the players are not happy. The third game to utilize the recycled T2 engine, its similarities in performance are obvious to anyone with experience with Turbines past 2 games. As with both AC2 and DDO, the initial reaction of players is "Best game ever", but time and Turbine change all things, and the milk has already been soured. Expect massive turnover rates in this game. Without the coveted LOTR IP, this game would never had made a mark in the first place, IMHO.

So, Turbine fans... enjoy patting each other on the back for the time being. That time will soon draw to an end.

Next time you post, do so with a less annoying font colour please.

I don't mind reading your rant about Turbine, but when you expect me to do it with a font colour and background that are assaulting to the eyes (yellow & blue are near-contrasting) it makes me want to ignore your post altogether.

P.S. Yes I did manually change your font colour in the quote.

Raston · June 2007

I loved AC1, it was my first MMO game. In my opinion, there hasn't been another like it since. That isn't to say it didn't have its problems, but what game doesn't? These days, it is absolutely ridiculous... at last word, I hard the level cap was in the 170s which is absolutely crazy...

AC2 didn't require a supercomputer, I ran it fine and had a weak rig at the time. It was just flat out boring, they traded the amazing skill system for some half assed skill tree with EQ style gameplay. And the changes to the world... Well, I didn't appreciate not having my hometown anymore personally, but could of lived with that had the landscape not been so... different.

DDO... one word, Ebberon... What in the HELL possessed anyone to make a game out of THAT world with the diversity of better choices (FR, OA, GH, DL, etc). People wanted to see graphical representations of the worlds that they loved, not some PoS joke world that noone cared about.

LotRO... This game would have been nice if it weren't so linear or if it didn't have the LotR association. This is a game that I think would of been better in the generic rather than under a license.

Thor_Leifson · June 2007

Originally posted by mmochance
While I don't agree with the chosen setting of little known (or cared about) Eberron for DDO [Planescape would have been so much more fun IMO], DDO has progressed quite nicely.

and

Originally posted by Perception
The mother of all RPG fantasy, Dungeons and Dragons, was coming. What arrived was a shallow, instance based, dungeon crawler with frustrating controls and combat dynamics, set in a claustrophobic city in possibly the worst DnD campaign ever.

Interestingly enough, neither of these posters could be a serious D&D3.5e player if they're unaware just how darned popular the player-created 3.5e world of Eberron remains to this day as a campaign setting. With a steampunk flavor, the folks who created this one have opened new horizons and brought on board a slew of new DnDPnP players. Greyhawk, Forgotton Realms (Faerun), Spelljammer, and Ravenloft were the most popular of the AD&D worlds. Planescape peaked and tanked hard with the less than stellar (pun intended) Planescape: Torment game.

As to Eberron being "possibly the worst DnD campaign ever," it's clear the poster never experienced the (sarcasm alert) joy that was Hollow World.

I liked DDO for what it was, a translation of PnP to the computer in a MMO setting. What ruined the game for me was the necessity to group everything. But, honestly, that's true to the core of PnP, so I have to give kudos to the designers for creating a game so true to its roots.

I don't play anymore, but I did like the game. Turbine definitely had a winner in a niche field with this one.

Raston · June 2007

Originally posted by Thor_Leifson

Originally posted by mmochance

While I don't agree with the chosen setting of little known (or cared about) Eberron for DDO [Planescape would have been so much more fun IMO], DDO has progressed quite nicely.

and

Originally posted by Perception

The mother of all RPG fantasy, Dungeons and Dragons, was coming. What arrived was a shallow, instance based, dungeon crawler with frustrating controls and combat dynamics, set in a claustrophobic city in possibly the worst DnD campaign ever.

Interestingly enough, neither of these posters could be a serious D&D3.5e player if they're unaware just how darned popular the player-created 3.5e world of Eberron remains to this day as a campaign setting. With a steampunk flavor, the folks who created this one have opened new horizons and brought on board a slew of new DnDPnP players. Greyhawk, Forgotton Realms (Faerun), Spelljammer, and Ravenloft were the most popular of the AD&D worlds. Planescape peaked and tanked hard with the less than stellar (pun intended) Planescape: Torment game.

As to Eberron being "possibly the worst DnD campaign ever," it's clear the poster never experienced the (sarcasm alert) joy that was Hollow World.

I liked DDO for what it was, a translation of PnP to the computer in a MMO setting. What ruined the game for me was the necessity to group everything. But, honestly, that's true to the core of PnP, so I have to give kudos to the designers for creating a game so true to its roots.

I don't play anymore, but I did like the game. Turbine definitely had a winner in a niche field with this one.

if Eberron is the best 3.5 has to offer, I'm glad I gave up when it went to DnD from ADnD 2nd Ed. I've looked at the books for Eberron and was not even remotely impressed.

Perception · June 2007

Originally posted by ladyattis

Source for said claims?
This thread.
Population doesn't always matter. UO was great for a time, too, and I doubt it even made past 250K subscribers. Please don't go for the fallacy of popularity, it just doesn't work. Give me a case where you had a skills based game like AC 1 that wasn't popular or considered innovative by industry heads, then I'll listen to you.
You completely missed my point. I wasn't comparing peak populations, I stated that the game lost over 90% of its population.
AC2 was horribly implemented, no doubt, but this was due to their hyperfocus on the graphical engine and little regard on gameplay. The T2 engine is still one of the best engines I've seen and it still works well even on lower end systems today. As for gameplay, it was bugged, but it matured as time went on. Too bad, they took too long to fix it. Basically, never release a beta is the lesson there.
So you agree with me?

I'd like a more valid source than MMOGchart for these numbers. The last time I heard DDO actually has about 180K active accounts, so it's still making a profit. So, please, no bunkery, just facts. And cite the sources for them.
Oh, so you can claim 180k with no source, yet you demand that I provide a source? Thats a double standard. Lets see you back up the 180k figure first.

Um citation for said claims of said users? When did a couple fanboys become the voice of the whole of the userbase that plays LOTRO? This to me marks you as a troll, for which I have little tolerance. If you want to generalize, I find you a spot on the Fox News punditary shows, kk?
Feel free to browse the LOTRO forums here, the LOTRO forums on the VN boards, and the official LOTRO forums and see for yourself.

And this from a man who likes the work of a moral subjectivist (Nietzsche)... I think I'll take my own opinion, considering I know what I like, unlike you.
Likes the works? I like the quote, nothing more. I've never read Nietzche. I'm sure you will take your own opinion, as uneducated and biased as it is. You'll need to bring a lot more to the table than a pompous attitude, double standards, and poor reading comprehension if you wish to debate with me.

-- Brede

Perception · June 2007

Originally posted by Keebs1984

Next time you post, do so with a less annoying font colour please.
I don't mind reading your rant about Turbine, but when you expect me to do it with a font colour and background that are assaulting to the eyes (yellow & blue are near-contrasting) it makes me want to ignore your post altogether.
P.S. Yes I did manually change your font colour in the quote.

I find yellow to be quite pleasing, and I'll continue to use it, thank you. Did you really have to quote my entire reply to just say you didnt like the color? Feel free to ignore my posts in the future, its not like you have anything to add to the discussion.

Thor_Leifson · June 2007

Originally posted by Raston
if Eberron is the best 3.5 has to offer, I'm glad I gave up when it went to DnD from ADnD 2nd Ed. I've looked at the books for Eberron and was not even remotely impressed.

Don't look at me, this is just the numbers on the market popularity of Eberron. A large number of RPers like the setting, hence a major reason Turbine chose it as the world for DDO. Me, I always loved Ravenloft most, but I don't pretend that everyone else did too. 8)

JestorRodo · June 2007

Originally posted by mmochance

I am in full agreement with you Seven. A Turbine pay pass would be ideal considering the quality games they could group. I would think it feasible to pay $25 for full access to AC, DDO and LotRO.

I answered the turbine survey about them emulating the SOE station pass. If they break $25.00 then forget about it. Besides I have the founders price of $9.99 a month for LOTRO , if I wanted to add $15.00 game if could be from anyone and still be at the $25.00 mark.

ladyattis · June 2007

Originally posted by Perception

This thread.

Insufficient.
You completely missed my point. I wasn't comparing peak populations, I stated that the game lost over 90% of its population.
So? It got old, they only made two expansions. Sometimes even skills based games lose luster if things don't get added beyond the traditional romp. Plus, the MMO market is highly competitive. There's probably been more failed MMOs in development than successful ones, it's normal for a new genre of anything to operate this way. Hell, there were hundreds of different automobile companies at the start of their construction, now only a few remain. It's called life, I suggest you pick up on it.
So you agree with me?
Only in the context that Turbine made a blunder of the game. This doesn't mean Turbine as a developer is unable to produce games. AC1, DDO, and LOTRO balk at your assertion. They retain profitability for them, that's all that matters to them.
Oh, so you can claim 180k with no source, yet you demand that I provide a source? Thats a double standard. Lets see you back up the 180k figure first.
Because my figure is actually from Turbine, they reported as such, I believe last year a few months after DDO's release. Please try to keep up, you're making an embrassment of yourself.
Feel free to browse the LOTRO forums here, the LOTRO forums on the VN boards, and the official LOTRO forums and see for yourself.
I'm a regular poster there. My username is Xarael, look me up sometime.
Likes the works? I like the quote, nothing more. I've never read Nietzche.
Then you're a fool for using that quote of his out of context.
I'm sure you will take your own opinion, as uneducated and biased as it is.
As a veteran Mudder (and a former Wizard/Owner of a TinyMUCK), and general game geek, I think my opinion is valid, period and end of story. More over, you haven't substantiated your claims once, in any forum post you've made on this BBS. Plus, you assume to know what my tastes are. In fact, that's the entire problem with your argument. You want everyone else to share your values. Guess, what dude, we ain't hive minded insects. Get use to that pesky individuality that even lets folks like those velvet crying Elvis paintings.
You'll need to bring a lot more to the table than a pompous attitude, double standards, and poor reading comprehension if you wish to debate with me.
1) Prove I'm doing double standard, don't just say it.
2) Being pompous doesn't matter. All that matters whether I'm right or wrong.
3) I can read, in fact I'm in the top 30% of the ACT. Please try someone else, especially someone else that is not an AI theorist (points to herself).

And for the record, Reality is not perception, read Aristotle, kiddo.

-- Brede

Perception · June 2007

Originally posted by ladyattis

Originally posted by Perception

Insufficient.
By whose standards? Yours? Please feel free to define your standards so that I may try to meet them. I guess calling someone who says "Turbine rules" a fan just isn't obviously apparent enough for you.

So? It got old, they only made two expansions. Sometimes even skills based games lose luster if things don't get added beyond the traditional romp. Plus, the MMO market is highly competitive. There's probably been more failed MMOs in development than successful ones, it's normal for a new genre of anything to operate this way. Hell, there were hundreds of different automobile companies at the start of their construction, now only a few remain. It's called life, I suggest you pick up on it.
Personal attacks aside, did you have a point? You aren't refuting that AC1 lost 90% of its player base. Your big argument is "So?". Forgive me if I'm not impressed.

Only in the context that Turbine made a blunder of the game. This doesn't mean Turbine as a developer is unable to produce games. AC1, DDO, and LOTRO balk at your assertion. They retain profitability for them, that's all that matters to them.
I never said they weren't able to produce games. I just implied that they produced bad games. AC1, AC2, and DDO certainly attest to this, not detract from it. AC2 certainly wasn't profitable. The jury is still out on whether or not DDO and LOTRO are profitable, as both of those games were reported to have cost in the neighborhood of $20million each to develop. I may be mistaken though. MMORPG's for the most part are long term investments.

Because my figure is actually from Turbine, they reported as such, I believe last year a few months after DDO's release. Please try to keep up, you're making an embrassment of yourself.
If its "from Turbine", then you should have no problems pointing out the link to the press statement, dev diary, or whatever. I keep up just fine, but it seems you can't get away from the personal attacks.
I'm a regular poster there. My username is Xarael, look me up sometime.
But... do you read other posts? You would have to be absolutely blind to not see the deluge of negative posts that I am referring to.

Then you're a fool for using that quote of his out of context.
Again with the personal attacks. You are the one assigning some greater value to a simple quote that isn't even used in the context of this debate. I simply like the quote, nothing more. It has no bearing on this, or any other discussion that I involve myself in.
As a veteran Mudder (and a former Wizard/Owner of a TinyMUCK), and general game geek, I think my opinion is valid, period and end of story. More over, you haven't substantiated your claims once, in any forum post you've made on this BBS. Plus, you assume to know what my tastes are. In fact, that's the entire problem with your argument. You want everyone else to share your values. Guess, what dude, we ain't hive minded insects. Get use to that pesky individuality that even lets folks like those velvet crying Elvis paintings.
Neat. When you are done tooting your own horn, maybe you might realize that this is a MMORPG forum. It goes without saying that the vast majority of posters here (including myself) are game geeks, and have experience in a multitude of games. My so called "claims" are either my opinion, or self evident. Ok, the 50k number is proving to be hard to track down, but seems your 180k number is as well. I never assumed anything about your tastes, please do not put words in my mouth. I don't want anyone else to share my "values". You are making an argument about something that does not exist. I'm not sure what the rest of the posts means... are you feeling ok?

1) Prove I'm doing double standard, don't just say it.
I already did. You told me to prove my 50k sub number for DDO, yet gave out a number of 180k subs with no proof. Thats a cut and dry example of a double standard.

2) Being pompous doesn't matter. All that matters whether I'm right or wrong.
Well that makes it easy then. You are wrong.

3) I can read, in fact I'm in the top 30% of the ACT. Please try someone else, especially someone else that is not an AI theorist (points to herself).
Neat. When you are done patting yourself on the back, feel free to come back to the debate you are losing.

And for the record, Reality is not perception, read Aristotle, kiddo.

Prove it.

-- Brede

Invinci_Gal · June 2007

Speaking from my own personal experiences, and this is just my own opinion.

I think Turbine tries very hard to create unique and innovative games. The down side, of course, is with all this experimentation a lot of things are bound to fail outright or just not do very well. While I don't understand some of the choices Turbine makes in their games, I respect their efforts to try something different and risky. It will probably be something entirely strange that they come out with that becomes a hugely popular MMO.

That said.. I think they've held their own in the MMO marketplace, but the realization of the potential for the IP's they have obtained has been lackluster at best from what I can tell.

I'm not familiar enough with AC1 or AC2 to comment on them, but I did play DDO. I have many friends who play the pen and paper game, and they all love online games. The fact that Turbine could not draw a single one of them into the game to me says that the game was not successful. It says to me that Turbine did not understand what their target market wanted and who they were. They still talk about one day finding that game which provides the D&D experience they love... but you mention DDO and they all brush it off as not what they wanted.

I think Lord of the Rings is a very well made and very solid game. Turbine stuck as closely as possible to the lore of the world and almost perfectly recreated it. The problem I think comes from the fact that beyond the fellowship and other heroic characters... Middle Earth was kind of dull and uptight. So, I can't really fault Turbine for that they made the game according to the IP. If every game stuck this close to their IP we'd be in MMO heaven. What I do fault them for is no RP server for the US players, lack of casual clothing and ugly bland and repetitive armor. They worked so hard to make a game that was filled with RP elements, but then left out major fundamentals for the RP community. That frustrated me greatly.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Celestian · June 2007

Originally posted by WARCRYtm
At the moment Turbine is The Best developer in my opinion

Sorry I can't agree with that. Till they make a real D&D Online MMO they got a lot of makeup work to get that title.

I think they did a wonderful job on LOTRO in anycase.

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