The weird, the bad, and the possibly illegal?

JoHosephat · June 2007

I work(ed) now past tense, for a department store. I was a newbie at the store, pretty green, only had been working there for about three weeks.

In the middle of my shift, I needed to go use the restroom to take a crap.

Growing up, especially when I was little, I had a fear of falling in the toilet, so I would sit on it backwards. To be able to do that, I had to de-robe. Well sooner or later, I stopped sitting on it backwards, but because of my psychological habits, I would always take a crap stark naked, partly in part to the aforementioned. Weird, eccentric, yah, maybe. But that's just how I am.

Well, I'm taking a crap, and this is a public bathroom mind you, and I'm in one of the stalls. And on the stall door, where the hinges are, there's about half an inch gap, that allows you to slightly see out of the bathroom, what I was unaware of though, was that apparantly from the outside, it gives you a full view of the toilet. A bit weird, when you have the belief that you're privacy is protected, and come to find out, it isn't.

Apparantly there was a complain from an associate, that there was a naked man in the stall. Mind you, the door is closed, and the only way they could see into the stall, would be at the right angle, looking in. Some story was concocted that I had my eye up against the crack and was looking out into the bathroom, etc. etc.

Which is weird, and illogical. Firstly, to see out, I wouldn't need to be that close. There are latrines lined up against the wall where you are facing when you walk out of the stall. So when someone is taking a piss, their back is to you. Secondly, you'd get the same view as though you were just standing there in the bathroom.

Right as I'm standing up to wipe, I see my operations manager walk by the stall at about two/three feet distance, purposefully looking in. I guess to "verify" this complaint.

At first, I just thought the guy was checking to see if anyone was in the stall so he could use it. Didn't think anything of it, and definitely did not think he got a clear view of myself.

Couple minutes pass, and a voice is telling me to hurry up, at first I just thought it was my direct manager, because the voices were similar, and he wanted me to get back to working. I finish wiping, clothe myself, wash my hands. And walk out. There are three people there, a security guard, the operations manager, and a guy who I've seen before but do not know. The security guard asks me what I was doing in there. Wondering what in God's name is going on, I retort back a bit sarcastically, "Taking a crap. What else would I be doing."

Then things are explained, and it clicks...They're accusing me of being a pervert. I was a bit took aback, and quite insulted. They were attacking my personal dignity and moral fiber, and yet at the same time, I felt violated because here it was, two employee's, one a high ranking manager, had been spying on me, as some type of voyeur.

I was quickly terminated, and was proceeded to be told that if I entered the premises, it would be criminal trespassing.

As time went on, I'm thinking to myself, "I was never given a reason for termination...But even the greater insult, and possibly a legal one. I had a high ranking manager, look at me in a private stall on purpose, expecting to find a naked man, and then terminating me because of it. There are reasons video feed is not allowed in restrooms...What the hell just happend."

To have peoples opinion espoused on the legal ramifications of all of this, I would appreciate. This seems very wrong, and I'd like to see legally what kind of ground I can stand on. Because it all seems very shady, and weird.

Spathotan · June 2007

Id contact the cops and give them your managers name. Also try to contact your state employment commission, and the BBB (eventhough they are worthless). Id also call all the local news stations and give them your managers name, and the name/location of the store. Put it out there as much as possible. You can remain anoamous so its fine. You may think im joking, but im serious.

hazmats · June 2007

hahaha

heartless · June 2007

Your first problem was that you were taking a crap in a public restroom. Your second problem was that you failed to notify your employer of a psychological disorder. Finally, your third problem was the fact that it doesn't seem like you're doing anything about your psychological problem (please forgive me if I'm wrong because I do hope that you are).

The way I see it is that the employer had a right to terminate you on the spot. Again, you failed to notify him/her so the first thing he assumed was that you were a pervert. And who wouldn't? I mean you were in a public bathroom buck naked. Should he have investigated the incident? Possibly but that's the way of retail.

Moral of the story is not to take a crap in a public restroom unless you absolutely have to.

rsammy · June 2007

I don't know what your states laws are about termination, but here in Texas you can be terminated on the spot without notice so I really don't think you have any legal standing there. Also, some companies put new employees on a sort of probational period so if a problem does arise they have grounds to terminate you at will.

I speak from experience when I tell you that you should have informed the person in charge about any habits you might have that could be misinterpreted as deviant or would have put you in a difficult situation if someone walked in on you.

And also, why the hell would you put your clothing on the floor or even the "handlebars"? I'm no germophobe, but public restrooms are dirty as hell even in the best situations.

Bigdavo · June 2007

Try wearing clothes in future.

alerum · June 2007

your bathroom habits may be somewhat strange. But i dont see any reason for termination. I would go to the labor board if i were you. I would say get a lawyer but unfortunatly i think the most a lawsuit would do is get you your job back,but do you really want to go back to work at a place that after the rumor mill is done with the situation everyone will be saying you were haveing sex with another man in the stall. I think i would contact the police about the manager spying on you while on the toilet.

JoHosephat · June 2007

Originally posted by Spathotan

Id contact the cops and give them your managers name. Also try to contact your state employment commission, and the BBB (eventhough they are worthless). Id also call all the local news stations and give them your managers name, and the name/location of the store. Put it out there as much as possible. You can remain anoamous so its fine. You may think im joking, but im serious.

There was actually a security guard around throughout the whole conversation and termination process. I'm not sure exactly what good reason would come out of contacting the cops. What would I tell them?

And I've actually thought about the whole news station bit. Even with the inability to win a lawsuit, they say there is no such thing as bad publicity, but this would be it.

Originally posted by heartless
Your first problem was that you were taking a crap in a public restroom.

But in a private stall. There is a reason camera's are not allowed in restrooms.

Your second problem was that you failed to notify your employer of a psychological disorder. Finally, your third problem was the fact that it doesn't seem like you're doing anything about your psychological problem (please forgive me if I'm wrong because I do hope that you are).

I fail to see how wanting to be comfortable is a psychological problem.

The way I see it is that the employer had a right to terminate you on the spot. Again, you failed to notify him/her so the first thing he assumed was that you were a pervert. And who wouldn't? I mean you were in a public bathroom buck naked. Should he have investigated the incident? Possibly but that's the way of retail.

No. I was in a bathroom stall. There's a difference.

It's like you're taking a dump, a guy breaks in the bathroom stall...mind you you had it locked. See's your family jewels, and the discomfortable expression you have on your face. He's deeply disturbed, and gets you charged for indecent exposure.

Moral of the story is not to take a crap in a public restroom unless you absolutely have to.

That's true. But I absolutely had to. They don't have employee restrooms.

Originally posted by rsammy

I don't know what your states laws are about termination, but here in Texas you can be terminated on the spot without notice so I really don't think you have any legal standing there.

I know I don't have any legal standing for my termination. If he just knocked on the bathroom stall, asked me to come out, and then told me I was terminated. I'd just be here SOL and pissed off.

Also, some companies put new employees on a sort of probational period so if a problem does arise they have grounds to terminate you at will.

I speak from experience when I tell you that you should have informed the person in charge about any habits you might have that could be misinterpreted as deviant or would have put you in a difficult situation if someone walked in on you.

"Oh. Just fyi...Make sure everyone know that when I take a crap. I'm stark naked. So it isn't like I'm being deviant...Because well, you need all your clothes off to be a deviant."

Since when is there a necessity to inform your employee of any odd habits you have? They're my employee, not my psychiatrist.

And also, why the hell would you put your clothing on the floor or even the "handlebars"? I'm no germophobe, but public restrooms are dirty as hell even in the best situations.

I was kind of like maintenance...there were times I had to clean up these rest-rooms. It desensitized me to germs.

Originally posted by alerum

your bathroom habits may be somewhat strange. But i dont see any reason for termination. I would go to the labor board if i were you. I would say get a lawyer but unfortunatly i think the most a lawsuit would do is get you your job back,but do you really want to go back to work at a place that after the rumor mill is done with the situation everyone will be saying you were haveing sex with another man in the stall. I think i would contact the police about the manager spying on you while on the toilet.

You're a smart man. You get where my beef is. Is the fact that a manager, with pre-knowledge of there being a de-robed man in a particular stall in a particular bathroom, purposefully looks through an area that would reveal the man in his natural state, EXPECTING to find such a specimen. And then proceeds to terminate the man. When in actuality, the manager was in a situation that espouses a perfect example of a particular kind of sexual harassment.

Knowing that store employee's are looking in on me, whether I had a shirt on or not, but the fact that I was taking a crap none-the-less. That's disturbing, even moreso when a person of leadership, a very high up manager pre-meditated performs such an act.

It's apalling, and really uncomfortable. I definitely would not want my job back in such a place.

heartless · June 2007

Here's the thing. Yes you were in a private stall but that private stall was in a public restroom therefore certain rules are applied. I understand you wanting to be comfortable but you being comfortable at the time made someone else feel very uncomfortable. I mean picture yourself in the other person's shoes: you walk by the stall and you glimpse a naked guy sitting there. What is the first thing that will pop into your mind? Is it "OMG pervert" or "I guess he's just trying to be comfortable".

As far as your psychological disorder goes, it's your inability to behave properly in a public setting. There are certain unspoken rules that apply when you're in public. It's not a major deviation by far, you just need to retrain yourself that what's acceptable in the privacy of your home may not be acceptable in public, even if you're in a private stall. Since there is always a chance that someone will see you and misenterpret your actions.

Draenor · June 2007

Originally posted by heartless

Here's the thing. Yes you were in a private stall but that private stall was in a public restroom therefore certain rules are applied. I understand you wanting to be comfortable but you being comfortable at the time made someone else feel very uncomfortable. I mean picture yourself in the other person's shoes: you walk by the stall and you glimpse a naked guy sitting there. What is the first thing that will pop into your mind? Is it "OMG pervert" or "I guess he's just trying to be comfortable".
As far as your psychological disorder goes, it's your inability to behave properly in a public setting. There are certain unspoken rules that apply when you're in public. It's not a major deviation by far, you just need to retrain yourself that what's acceptable in the privacy of your home may not be acceptable in public, even if you're in a private stall. Since there is always a chance that someone will see you and misenterpret your actions.

But is it really his fault that somebody chose to look between the stalls hard enough to realize what they were seeing? Weird habbit or not, his odd behavior isn't illegal, but somebody peeking into a bathroom stall is.

Flem · June 2007

Let me see if i get the picture:

Your in the toilet trying to release the chocolate hostage, employee comes in, has a peek, leaves, goes to his manager, tells on you, manager comes into toilet, has a look for himself. And all this time your still trying to give birth to a brown baby.

My advice: You need to shit quicker.

Wraithmire · June 2007

Originally posted by Flem

Let me see if i get the picture:
Your in the toilet trying to release the chocolate hostage, employee comes in, has a peek, leaves, goes to his manager, tells on you, manager comes into toilet, has a look for himself. And all this time your still trying to give birth to a brown baby.
My advice: You need to shit quicker.

or it was a really large baby coming out...

Deaf · June 2007

What a man does to take a shit, is none of my business, and hopefully never will be. If I were you I wouldn't try to get the job back, but would try some other legal route to straighten out what happened and maybe even get some $.

EggFtegg · June 2007

Originally posted by heartless

Here's the thing. Yes you were in a private stall but that private stall was in a public restroom therefore certain rules are applied. I understand you wanting to be comfortable but you being comfortable at the time made someone else feel very uncomfortable. I mean picture yourself in the other person's shoes: you walk by the stall and you glimpse a naked guy sitting there. What is the first thing that will pop into your mind? Is it "OMG pervert" or "I guess he's just trying to be comfortable".
As far as your psychological disorder goes, it's your inability to behave properly in a public setting. There are certain unspoken rules that apply when you're in public. It's not a major deviation by far, you just need to retrain yourself that what's acceptable in the privacy of your home may not be acceptable in public, even if you're in a private stall. Since there is always a chance that someone will see you and misenterpret your actions.

Are you the co-worker who got him sacked, then, Heartless?

Honestly, if I caught a glimpse of a naked guy on the toilet, I'd be mortified that I'd looked through the gap at all. If he's sat on the toilet, my first thought is that he's having a dump - that's usually what people sitting on toilets are doing.

A cubicle is where people crap and should not be a public setting. You have your pants down anyway, so how is taking your shirt off, somehow exposing yourself in public? Does anyone know why so many public toilets in America are built with that gap anyway? It's clearly an intentional design. What's that all about?

My advice (reposted after posts were lost yesterday) would be to go and see what a lawyer might be able to do for you, if you're not too embarrassed to make an issue of this.

Also, in future, carry around a long piece of 2" wide fabric, rolled up in your pocket, with some way of attaching it to the top of the door, just in case people are tempted to peek in at you and jump to weird conclusions again.

//\//\oo · June 2007

Worker's compensation due to mental illness.

Get yourself a lawyer and sue your ex-employer to your heart's content. You'll be able to squeeze a few easy ks out of him.

Meon · June 2007

two words:

Sue them

JoHosephat · June 2007

Originally posted by heartless
Here's the thing. Yes you were in a private stall but that private stall was in a public restroom therefore certain rules are applied. I understand you wanting to be comfortable but you being comfortable at the time made someone else feel very uncomfortable. I mean picture yourself in the other person's shoes: you walk by the stall and you glimpse a naked guy sitting there. What is the first thing that will pop into your mind? Is it "OMG pervert" or "I guess he's just trying to be comfortable".

Actually if I was someone else, I'd just think, "That's kind of strange"

Just as I think a man who needs to sit to take a leak is kind of strange. I'm not denying that my actions may be seen as weird by other people, I've been getting alot of jokes from my friends about it...I mean it's definitely a weird way to get terminated. But what's perverted about it? In any context?

That I have my shirt off? I've seen people walk into gas stations without a shirt on.

Or that my drawers are off? People have to expose themselves and lower their pants anyhow to take a crap, I just find it uncomfortable to have them hanging around my knee's.

As far as your psychological disorder goes, it's your inability to behave properly in a public setting. There are certain unspoken rules that apply when you're in public. It's not a major deviation by far, you just need to retrain yourself that what's acceptable in the privacy of your home may not be acceptable in public, even if you're in a private stall. Since there is always a chance that someone will see you and misenterpret your actions.

There are indeed certain unspoken rules that apply in public, especially a restroom, in particularly, a mens restroom.

Large public restroom, urinals lined up against the wall, common courtesy(they have like a 20 minute video on this stuff). Firstly...adequate spacing between you and another "pisser". Secondly, to either look at the wall, or the ceiling. Glancing over, is a big no no. Because well, let's face it, the guy has his genitals exposed, and if you glance over, and you knowing there is a guy over there...You kind of have the fore knowledge that you're probably gonna see the guys ding-a-ling.

Oh, and also I consider another unspoken rule, is not looking in a stall while someone is taking a crap. That's even more messed up than looking at someone while they're using the urinal.

I was not in a public setting, I was in a private setting, I was doing nothing illegal, and nothingly disorderly, I was taking a crap.

The person with the disorder is the one that has the inability to keep their eyes away from a small opening that would expose a persons privacy. That is the one with a disorder.

I can behave fine in private, but apparantly an associate and a manager, were not taught as a child the unspoken rules of courtesy, and what is indeed lewd, and what is not. The only deviants in this whole ordeal, were the ones involved in my termination.

Originally posted by EggFtegg
Originally posted by heartless

Here's the thing. Yes you were in a private stall but that private stall was in a public restroom therefore certain rules are applied. I understand you wanting to be comfortable but you being comfortable at the time made someone else feel very uncomfortable. I mean picture yourself in the other person's shoes: you walk by the stall and you glimpse a naked guy sitting there. What is the first thing that will pop into your mind? Is it "OMG pervert" or "I guess he's just trying to be comfortable".

As far as your psychological disorder goes, it's your inability to behave properly in a public setting. There are certain unspoken rules that apply when you're in public. It's not a major deviation by far, you just need to retrain yourself that what's acceptable in the privacy of your home may not be acceptable in public, even if you're in a private stall. Since there is always a chance that someone will see you and misenterpret your actions.

Are you the co-worker who got him sacked, then, Heartless?

I've been thinking the same thing. Seems like the mentality that the co-worker would have.

Honestly, if I caught a glimpse of a naked guy on the toilet, I'd be mortified that I'd looked through the gap at all.

Exactly. It's like those weird moments you have throughout life that you see things you really didn't want to see. You're just like, "WHY DIDN"T I LOOK AWAY!"

If he's sat on the toilet, my first thought is that he's having a dump - that's usually what people sitting on toilets are doing.

That's usually why people are in stalls to begin with. Either that or to change, clean themselves up, whatever. Just frankly, I wouldn't find it shocking to see someone naked in a stall. It's like, "Hrmm...there is a reason why the door is closed."

Finding someone pissing naked at the urinals though. I'd find that disturbing.

A cubicle is where people crap and should not be a public setting. You have your pants down anyway, so how is taking your shirt off, somehow exposing yourself in public?

Yah. I kind of said that to the security officer, he seemed to be dumb-founded.

Firstly it'd have to be in a public place...Which, there's a reason why camera's are not allowed in bathrooms.

Does anyone know why so many public toilets in America are built with that gap anyway? It's clearly an intentional design. What's that all about?

I find that rather weird myself. It's like it's inviting some weirdo to look in on you taking a crap.

The whole time I couldn't help but think that I'm working around a bunch of Quagmire's.

My advice (reposted after posts were lost yesterday) would be to go and see what a lawyer might be able to do for you, if you're not too embarrassed to make an issue of this.

Frankly, I never thought of it as a big deal. I really don't find it embarassing, just weird explaining why I got fired. Frankly, I find it weird explaining to anyone what my bathroom habits are. It's not something I'm just comfortable explaining. "I take a crap this way..." And, "I aim when I piss this way...". It's like, "What business is it of anyone?"

Frankly I find it weird that some people don't wash their hands after they use the restroom. In fact, I find it rather gross, but I have friends with such hygienal habits. And I'm sure I had co-workers with such habits. But everytime I didn't hear the water run and the door would open...I didn't go up to a manager and tell them how I find something disturbing which is really none of my business to begin with.

Also, in future, carry around a long piece of 2" wide fabric, rolled up in your pocket, with some way of attaching it to the top of the door, just in case people are tempted to peek in at you and jump to weird conclusions again.

Actually passingly thought of that. Which is really quite depressing that you must bring around a roll of some kind of opaque material so as to not have your privacy violated, and secondly, so you're not accused of being a weirdo cause you crap differently.

It's like the saying, "We all put on our pants one leg at a time." Which I usually put on mine with both legs at the same time.

Guess that makes me a deviant as well. Always crap with a shirt on, and always put on your pants a certain way. Or by God...You're just not a true american!

Originally posted by //\//\oo

Worker's compensation due to mental illness.
Get yourself a lawyer and sue your ex-employer to your heart's content. You'll be able to squeeze a few easy ks out of him.

I'm not mentally ill...It's just a habit of mine. I'm sure if I purposefully tried I could change my habits. I just don't really care to.

Even though I got terminated because of having certain habits, I'm not going to change it. I find it really quite depressing that people are so intrusive into the personal lives of others, that they're disturbed if they don't crap a certain way.

Say your Heil's and keep your shirt on. Or the terminator will be out to getcha!

//\//\oo · June 2007

Originally posted by JoHosephat

Originally posted by //\//\oo

Worker's compensation due to mental illness.
Get yourself a lawyer and sue your ex-employer to your heart's content. You'll be able to squeeze a few easy ks out of him.

I'm not mentally ill...It's just a habit of mine. I'm sure if I purposefully tried I could change my habits. I just don't really care to.

Even though I got terminated because of having certain habits, I'm not going to change it. I find it really quite depressing that people are so intrusive into the personal lives of others, that they're disturbed if they don't crap a certain way.

Say your Heil's and keep your shirt on. Or the terminator will be out to getcha!

... You're not getting the big picture. YOU NEED TO BE MENTALLY ILL TO GET COMPENSATION. Your lawyer will tell you the same.

Have you ever seen the episode of moral orel where the intelligent kid is deemed retarded, because he recognizes some flaws in common Christian reasoning?

If you want justice, then you have to play the game. What you don't understand is that there are a lot of facets of society that are neither logical nor beneficial to society as a whole, but are fully enforced by the law. I often take a crap with my pants in my arms (so they don't get dirty on the bathroom floor that is riddled with e-coli and the lot).

Mental illness is not necessarily a condition, but a label used to identify things that are displeasing to most people in a society.

It's just like playing a mmorpg, but instead of spamming auto-attack you get to spam "feign mental illness".

JoHosephat · June 2007

Originally posted by //\//\oo
Originally posted by JoHosephat

Originally posted by //\//\oo

Worker's compensation due to mental illness.

Get yourself a lawyer and sue your ex-employer to your heart's content. You'll be able to squeeze a few easy ks out of him.

I'm not mentally ill...It's just a habit of mine. I'm sure if I purposefully tried I could change my habits. I just don't really care to.

Even though I got terminated because of having certain habits, I'm not going to change it. I find it really quite depressing that people are so intrusive into the personal lives of others, that they're disturbed if they don't crap a certain way.

Say your Heil's and keep your shirt on. Or the terminator will be out to getcha!

   ... You're not getting the big picture. YOU NEED TO BE MENTALLY ILL TO GET COMPENSATION. Your lawyer will tell you the same.

I was kind of thinking you were alluding to that.

       Have you ever seen the episode of moral orel where the intelligent kid is deemed retarded, because he recognizes some flaws in common Christian reasoning?

       If you want justice, then you have to play the game. What you don't understand is that there are a lot of facets of society that are neither logical nor beneficial to society as a whole, but are fully enforced by the law.

Ohhh no...I definitely understand that.

I often take a crap with my pants in my arms (so they don't get dirty on the bathroom floor that is riddled with e-coli and the lot).

See, I find that kind of weird, and would never do it. But at the same time, it makes sense and won't diss you for it. What is just going through my mind though...is how you wipe.

       Mental illness is not necessarily a condition, but a label used to identify things that are displeasing to most people in a society.

The ironic thing is that most brilliant men would be considered mentally ill in one way or another. But then again, I suppose that's why they're brilliant, because they were not the average joe of society.

       It's just like playing a mmorpg, but instead of spamming auto-attack you get to spam "feign mental illness".

*Ding*

"Your mental illness skill is now level 78!"

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