Depends. If we look at gamespot under "They say", both games have an exact score of 9,4 and the difference on gamerankings is 0,3. Both are two very succesfull games, now THATS where I can say, it depends on your taste.
Uh huh, twisting it when it seems fit.
While the fact you're trying to make it look I'm twisting is slightly amusing, the cold fact is that I didn't twist anything.
But not when there is a playerbase difference of 7,5 million and rating difference of 1 points or more.
Ok thats interesting thinking. You say every game which has gained a lot of sales and also has a higher review rating by 1 point or more is a better game than any other game which hasn't. Zelda outselling a rival rpg who simply got 1 ranking point lower by a considerable amount makes Zelda the best rpg? Even though they could be two different rpgs.
Well aside from the fact Zelda is not an rpg, thats correct. You can always compare the quality of the game. You can say "I like this one best" or "I like that one best". thats all fine, but there simply is a difference in quality. If there wasn't, it would be impossible to write something like a review.
Saying "Best is subjective" is just plain wrong. Thats like say ET for the atari 2600 is of the same quality as games like Oblivion and Gears of War because hey, it all depends on opinion.
So the question "what is the best RTS?" isn't subjective? No. The question "What is your favorite RTS" is subjective. I do see in part where you're coming from. You see games magazines that will come up with bold headlines and bold statements to grasp the reader's attention. They may say "Oblivion, best rpg ever" and readers lap it up because its want they want to read. Yet, we're being told by game reviewers who have a subjective view what is the best rpg ever. Will hardcore rpg appreciatives and fans agree? Maybe not.
A car reviewer may cite a certain sports car as the best sports car. Will someone who is a hardcore sports car fan, who drives sports car day in, day out agree with that? Maybe, maybe not. He will likely be able to tell you the advantages and disadvantages of each car hes driven. He may also have a subjective view as to what he views as the best.
As I explained in a previous post,, the ones who review those games are those who do it for a living. When you're playing games, they are playing games. When you're at work, they are playing games. They know what the heck they are talking about. The fact WoW had such a massive success and the fact it received such high ratings isn't a coincidence.
You are very close to the true "source" of the "problem". Here is what itall, all, comes down to: 1. WoW cost roughly 30 million to make. In order for them to have recouped their investment, they needed 100,000 players to play. As you know, WoW has how many players? 2. With that in mind, Blizzard litterally is making too much money out of their initial investment. Not only have they re-couped their investment, they are making such true profit, that it boggles their own imagination. So, from a purly buisness POV, Blizzard could care less if other mmorpgs take players from WoW. They could care less if WoW went from 8 million playres down to 5,000 players. They have already made their money. No matter what happens in the future to WoW, it's a 100% win situation for Blizzard. They do not need to be "too confident in their product". Their product has already re-couped all investment, and has already turned in an insane amount of true profit for them. They do not need to plan any "counter-attacks" because there is nothing for the competition to attack. There is no "coffin" for WoW, there will NEVER be a coffin for WoW. If WoW was shut down next week, it would be zero loss of money for Blizzard. Blizzard has ALREADY won years ago. When WoW eclipsed the 1 million player mark.
Its always refreshing to see a post by someone who actually has a clue.
First, and not to be rude here, but your posts don't give the impression of an intelligent driving force behind them, so you really have no place lecturing us on MMORPG trends.
He must be young, don't be too hard on him.
WOW might lose one, two or three million players. So what.
My lil' bro and his friends are playing WoW and barely knows what a MMORPG is.
Many kids in wow arent even aware of all the other MMOs out there and that's why
WoW will live on for many years to come.
If anything at all, WoW has expanded the market for MMOs.
It's possible that these kids will look for something else. Which might be pumping money into one or more of the other games out there that are struggling in a niche.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
As for the OP what a waste of a post as for the text above this is a fantastic post and gives a clear view of the current situation. Not that, of the majority here who have no life skills no intelligence and couldn't have ever worked through the logic of the post above ..
Well done very well done
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
From my person experience, the new expansion left so much to do at level 70, that it became a little to much for me (not wanting to devote that much time into a silly game) and I quit. LOL.
However, I'm always coming back to wow, I guess it's just the people I play with, best you'll find anywhere!
WoW will still be there, as its a good stepping stone for new players to mmorgs. I played WoW for just over 2 yrs and to be honest, it is rather boring, WoW is truely a learning mmorg to bigger and more tougher level/playing mmorgs I feel. WoW was fun, and like most when you hit max level it boring raid the same 2 or so dungeons over and over and over. But alot of people I know on WoW have learned how to be a great player and have moved on to harder/more serious mmorgs.
Over all, WoW needs to slow done the leveling process, being level 70 in 9 days play most do it now, isnt fun to me, Might as well let you have an option to roll a max level char right off char creation I say LOL.
But thats only my opinion, lots of peeps love WoW and lots wil in time to come. Its a simple mmorg that anyone can play. Well back to Lotr for me, Finding that more fun these days.
i will admit while WoW is falling fast, it will never completely drown...after being back for less than a month, i'm ready to cancel...there's no one anymore, even on the supposedly High pop servers and the community's gone to the devil...no one talks, no one helps...anyone i see goes on about their business unless they need something from you...no fun anymore...also...i checked the game list by ratings, check this out
1. LotRO
2. GW Factions
3. GW Nightfall
4. EQ2
5. CoV
6. GW
7. DAoC
8. EvE
9. CoH
10. UO
11. Ryzom
12. FFXI
13. AC
14. EQ
15. VC
16. WoW
haha, not even in the top 10 anymore...but it will never completely drown, fanbois will live on (at least until they come out with a household supercomputer, lol)
i am sure when age of conan and warhammer come out then it will surely loose great amount of players .There is many interesting games that already exist but most of the people dont know them ,i can admit that wow was one of the best advertised games while some other games that i believe are better in many aspects (graphics,gameplay,pvp,pve) arent so famous .Good thing is that competition between online games will make companies to create better and better online games ,personally i w8 for age of conan (looks like they are doing serious work ) since warhammer online reminds me wow a lot .I dont think blizzard can stop downfall of wow and i have heard some plannings of new online games but might be rumors.So in few months that some new games will be released we will find out .
Downfall of WoW? Honestly, I think people focus way too much on that sort of thing. Every time a new game is in production, somebody somewhere claims that it will be the killer of whatever game is hot at the time. I don't remember how many games were said to be the EQ killer. Some of them were nothing more than vapor ware. We don't know much about the games that are in development. They may turn out like SWG come release. Or they may have short term appeal, but are unable to sustain anything long-term. It truth, no single game ever killed EQ, people just slowly slipped away over the years and went elsewhere. It is inevitable that the same will happen with WoW, in time. There won't be a mass exodus, but people will leave to go to new games. It's not like WoW revolutionized the genre or anything. They just did more right, to appeal to more people, than their competition. In fact, WoW's popularity is due, in part, to the failures of the other game developers. EQ2 was expected to blow WoW out of the water, but they failed miserably on their promise of creating a game that catered to casual gamers. WoW did a much better job of that. WoW was able to satisfy more hardcore gamers as well. There was also enough gameplay for both PvE and PvP players.
The problem with appealing to a broad base of players is that you can't really fulfill all their needs. You have to make sacrifices. I think more and more MMO developers will, if they are smart, focus on smaller niches. It's much easier to please a small group of like minded players than trying to please everybody. As these game come out they will take more and more players from WoW, but I expect WoW to still be around in a few years, even if all the new MMOs are successful.
I bought WOW but never took the plastic off the cover. I guess I just picked up VG just a couple of days before and thought that I dont want to waste my advanced rig on average graghics in WOW. I think this will be their biggest issue. There are a lot of sexy looking games coming out Scifi / fantasy etc. I feel that when people start really upgrading their rigs they will want to test their system. However out of 8 million people there will still be a large proportion around the world who can not spend a tonne of cash on a 8800gt or whatever. So a massive reduction in subs is expected but until hardware is cheap enough there will still be a player base. In the meantime I will continue to use the unopened box as a book end.
Where's the option to vote that it won't go down because it's a good game? Or is liking WoW an impossibility or affront here?
All MMOGs will die eventually, I'm sure. UO is still around though, as is AC, and even Meridian 59 in some way. Thinking any game with some success will close the doors soon is unrealistic. It hasn't happened yet, still people seem to claim it'll happen to the most successful game of them all any time soon.
Originally posted by doc2552
Just a note, when LOTRO was relesed Blizzard said they lost 2milion people world-wide, but a 3 million people join/rejoined at the same time, wow will not die out totaly (saddly) but i think its safe to say once 2008 is over WoW's glory days will be up or at least numbered
Like others have mentioned already, unless you can back this statement up with a link I call it absolute BS.
I bought WOW but never took the plastic off the cover. I guess I just picked up VG just a couple of days before and thought that I dont want to waste my advanced rig on average graghics in WOW. I think this will be their biggest issue. There are a lot of sexy looking games coming out Scifi / fantasy etc. I feel that when people start really upgrading their rigs they will want to test their system. However out of 8 million people there will still be a large proportion around the world who can not spend a tonne of cash on a 8800gt or whatever. So a massive reduction in subs is expected but until hardware is cheap enough there will still be a player base. In the meantime I will continue to use the unopened box as a book end.
Ive got to disagree there. Alotta people like WoW because theres so much content with very little graphic lag on a mainstream (non-highend) system. Its not as highend graphically as Vangaurd supposedly is, but it is 10 pounds of game in 5 pound bag. I would rather play a game with great mechanics and tight controls at 60fps+ than a well textured hunk of grind at 15fps. WoW is gonna go the way of the Romans some day, but its gonna take a game that focuses on every type of the modern MMORPG player with excellent content, in a graphical package that makes it accessible to 90% of home pcs. WAR looks to be great, for pvpers, but questers, crafters, explorers,etc. look like theyre getting a much smaller share of the developmental focus. AoC looks to be very different, but I havent heard much about the PvP, or crafting, or how an economy might work and the graphics requirements are so high, they may be eliminating alotta gamers right out of the gate. Personally I hope both games are excellent plays, and hit the 1 million + mark, but they wont be slayers of WoW just liek DnD online wasnt, and Lord Of the Rings is not, and so on......and so on.......
i say that they should start working thier asses off to at least TRY to improve the game or start working on another one to last them a couple more years, if that, before the company completley collapses and
Even if they lose 80% of their customer base they still have more subscribers than any MMO from the US. The would have 3 times the amount EQ had in their heyday.
Downfall of WoW? Honestly, I think people focus way too much on that sort of thing. Every time a new game is in production, somebody somewhere claims that it will be the killer of whatever game is hot at the time. I don't remember how many games were said to be the EQ killer. Some of them were nothing more than vapor ware. We don't know much about the games that are in development. They may turn out like SWG come release. Or they may have short term appeal, but are unable to sustain anything long-term. It truth, no single game ever killed EQ, people just slowly slipped away over the years and went elsewhere. It is inevitable that the same will happen with WoW, in time. There won't be a mass exodus, but people will leave to go to new games. It's not like WoW revolutionized the genre or anything. They just did more right, to appeal to more people, than their competition. In fact, WoW's popularity is due, in part, to the failures of the other game developers. EQ2 was expected to blow WoW out of the water, but they failed miserably on their promise of creating a game that catered to casual gamers. WoW did a much better job of that. WoW was able to satisfy more hardcore gamers as well. There was also enough gameplay for both PvE and PvP players.
The problem with appealing to a broad base of players is that you can't really fulfill all their needs. You have to make sacrifices. I think more and more MMO developers will, if they are smart, focus on smaller niches. It's much easier to please a small group of like minded players than trying to please everybody. As these game come out they will take more and more players from WoW, but I expect WoW to still be around in a few years, even if all the new MMOs are successful.
I agree you cant please everyone all the time, but shouldnt MMORPG developers be trying? I think the reason WoW has kept me on for over 2 years where previous good MMORPG's held me for maybe 3-4 months is that they do try to cater to every type of player. WoWs not the best PvP game out there (DAoC), its not the best economy (EvE), its really not the best anything, (except maybe large group endgame raiding) but it all does all of these well enough to satisfy a large part of each groups audience, making it the most subscribed to game. Basically they dont do anything the greatest but they dont do anything badly. And the bonus of having a multifacted game is that it allows you to find enjoyment in it in any way you want. Freedom and nonIinear gameplay are the future of this industry, or at least should be.
I agree with you that WoW's popualrity is due to the failure of other developers, but their failure was that they made games with narrow appeal for select markets with so little content they couldnt hold their subs. I think WoW, whether you liek the game or not, has raised the bar for developers in the genre on the whole, proving the easy road to niche popularity is the fast road to the recycle bin. Finally, we get to expect more from our games. Down with forced grouping! Down with Collision Detection! Let freedom ring!
Even if they lose 80% of their customer base they still have more subscribers than any MMO from the US. The would have 3 times the amount EQ had in their heyday.
yes, but who's to say that one won't rise over it instead of it falling below all the others
Even if they lose 80% of their customer base they still have more subscribers than any MMO from the US. The would have 3 times the amount EQ had in their heyday.
yes, but who's to say that one won't rise over it instead of it falling below all the others Well, you completely missed the point. They would still have over 1 million subscribers. No US MMO has ever had that many. Half as that many, yes. The point is if DAoC can survive with its 50K subscribers WoW will be fine for a very, very long time.
Comments
While the fact you're trying to make it look I'm twisting is slightly amusing, the cold fact is that I didn't twist anything.
Ok thats interesting thinking. You say every game which has gained a lot of sales and also has a higher review rating by 1 point or more is a better game than any other game which hasn't. Zelda outselling a rival rpg who simply got 1 ranking point lower by a considerable amount makes Zelda the best rpg? Even though they could be two different rpgs.Well aside from the fact Zelda is not an rpg, thats correct. You can always compare the quality of the game. You can say "I like this one best" or "I like that one best". thats all fine, but there simply is a difference in quality. If there wasn't, it would be impossible to write something like a review.
So the question "what is the best RTS?" isn't subjective? No. The question "What is your favorite RTS" is subjective. I do see in part where you're coming from. You see games magazines that will come up with bold headlines and bold statements to grasp the reader's attention. They may say "Oblivion, best rpg ever" and readers lap it up because its want they want to read. Yet, we're being told by game reviewers who have a subjective view what is the best rpg ever. Will hardcore rpg appreciatives and fans agree? Maybe not.
A car reviewer may cite a certain sports car as the best sports car. Will someone who is a hardcore sports car fan, who drives sports car day in, day out agree with that? Maybe, maybe not. He will likely be able to tell you the advantages and disadvantages of each car hes driven. He may also have a subjective view as to what he views as the best.
As I explained in a previous post,, the ones who review those games are those who do it for a living. When you're playing games, they are playing games. When you're at work, they are playing games. They know what the heck they are talking about. The fact WoW had such a massive success and the fact it received such high ratings isn't a coincidence.
Many kids in wow arent even aware of all the other MMOs out there and that's why
WoW will live on for many years to come.
Perception is Reality.
WOW might lose one, two or three million players. So what.
If anything at all, WoW has expanded the market for MMOs.
It's possible that these kids will look for something else. Which might be pumping money into one or more of the other games out there that are struggling in a niche.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
However, I'm always coming back to wow, I guess it's just the people I play with, best you'll find anywhere!
Hiya all,
WoW will still be there, as its a good stepping stone for new players to mmorgs. I played WoW for just over 2 yrs and to be honest, it is rather boring, WoW is truely a learning mmorg to bigger and more tougher level/playing mmorgs I feel. WoW was fun, and like most when you hit max level it boring raid the same 2 or so dungeons over and over and over. But alot of people I know on WoW have learned how to be a great player and have moved on to harder/more serious mmorgs.
Over all, WoW needs to slow done the leveling process, being level 70 in 9 days play most do it now, isnt fun to me, Might as well let you have an option to roll a max level char right off char creation I say LOL.
But thats only my opinion, lots of peeps love WoW and lots wil in time to come. Its a simple mmorg that anyone can play. Well back to Lotr for me, Finding that more fun these days.
Cheers
Tanvaras.
Tanvaras, 65 Druid EQ1 - Retired
Ryquist, 68 Cunjurer EQ2 - Retired
Tanvaras, 70 Warrior WoW - retired
Nifty, 19 Minstrel Lotr - Current.
1. LotRO
2. GW Factions
3. GW Nightfall
4. EQ2
5. CoV
6. GW
7. DAoC
8. EvE
9. CoH
10. UO
11. Ryzom
12. FFXI
13. AC
14. EQ
15. VC
16. WoW
haha, not even in the top 10 anymore...but it will never completely drown, fanbois will live on (at least until they come out with a household supercomputer, lol)
Check out the MUD I'm making!
The problem with appealing to a broad base of players is that you can't really fulfill all their needs. You have to make sacrifices. I think more and more MMO developers will, if they are smart, focus on smaller niches. It's much easier to please a small group of like minded players than trying to please everybody. As these game come out they will take more and more players from WoW, but I expect WoW to still be around in a few years, even if all the new MMOs are successful.
I bought WOW but never took the plastic off the cover. I guess I just picked up VG just a couple of days before and thought that I dont want to waste my advanced rig on average graghics in WOW. I think this will be their biggest issue. There are a lot of sexy looking games coming out Scifi / fantasy etc. I feel that when people start really upgrading their rigs they will want to test their system. However out of 8 million people there will still be a large proportion around the world who can not spend a tonne of cash on a 8800gt or whatever. So a massive reduction in subs is expected but until hardware is cheap enough there will still be a player base. In the meantime I will continue to use the unopened box as a book end.
All MMOGs will die eventually, I'm sure. UO is still around though, as is AC, and even Meridian 59 in some way. Thinking any game with some success will close the doors soon is unrealistic. It hasn't happened yet, still people seem to claim it'll happen to the most successful game of them all any time soon.
Like others have mentioned already, unless you can back this statement up with a link I call it absolute BS.
beware all ye who enter
I agree you cant please everyone all the time, but shouldnt MMORPG developers be trying? I think the reason WoW has kept me on for over 2 years where previous good MMORPG's held me for maybe 3-4 months is that they do try to cater to every type of player. WoWs not the best PvP game out there (DAoC), its not the best economy (EvE), its really not the best anything, (except maybe large group endgame raiding) but it all does all of these well enough to satisfy a large part of each groups audience, making it the most subscribed to game. Basically they dont do anything the greatest but they dont do anything badly. And the bonus of having a multifacted game is that it allows you to find enjoyment in it in any way you want. Freedom and nonIinear gameplay are the future of this industry, or at least should be.
I agree with you that WoW's popualrity is due to the failure of other developers, but their failure was that they made games with narrow appeal for select markets with so little content they couldnt hold their subs. I think WoW, whether you liek the game or not, has raised the bar for developers in the genre on the whole, proving the easy road to niche popularity is the fast road to the recycle bin. Finally, we get to expect more from our games. Down with forced grouping! Down with Collision Detection! Let freedom ring!
beware all ye who enter
...after 100 years