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General: NY Times Examines Goldselling
Szark
News ManagerMember Posts: 4,420
The New York Times has published a detailed article looking at the lives of goldsellers living in Nanjing, China.
It was an hour before midnight, three hours into the night shift with nine more to go. At his workstation in a small, fluorescent-lighted office space in Nanjing, China, Li Qiwen sat shirtless and chain-smoking, gazing purposefully at the online computer game in front of him. The screen showed a lightly wooded mountain terrain, studded with castle ruins and grazing deer, in which warrior monks milled about. Li, or rather his staff-wielding wizard character, had been slaying the enemy monks since 8 p.m., mouse-clicking on one corpse after another, each time gathering a few dozen virtual coins -- and maybe a magic weapon or two -- into an increasingly laden backpack.
Twelve hours a night, seven nights a week, with only two or three nights off per month, this is what Li does -- for a living. On this summer night in 2006, the game on his screen was, as always, World of Warcraft, an online fantasy title in which players, in the guise of self-created avatars -- night-elf wizards, warrior orcs and other Tolkienesque characters -- battle their way through the mythical realm of Azeroth, earning points for every monster slain and rising, over many months, from the game's lowest level of death-dealing power (1) to the highest (70). More than eight million people around the world play World of Warcraft -- approximately one in every thousand on the planet -- and whenever Li is logged on, thousands of other players are, too. They share the game's vast, virtual world with him, converging in its towns to trade their loot or turning up from time to time in Li's own wooded corner of it, looking for enemies to kill and coins to gather. Every World of Warcraft player needs those coins, and mostly for one reason: to pay for the virtual gear to fight the monsters to earn the points to reach the next level. And there are only two ways players can get as much of this virtual money as the game requires: they can spend hours collecting it or they can pay someone real money to do it for them.
Read the full article here.
Comments
Excellent article, he picked up on the essence of the mmog fanatic - you are simply Compelled and Driven to play.
I think this is the same guy who a few years ago tried an experiment to see if he could match his current annual salary by becoming a farmer for a year; he came pretty close and wrote a series of articles about the experience. Was it EQ? I forget, but he is a mmoger.
long, but interesting article. Unlike the many articles that have come before it dealing with 'farming' and the like, this one has put a human face to farming. I've been, for the most part, indifferent about the entire thing, but now i see that to most of us they're just games, while to others, its a way of life. Not that i think its completely alright, but it just makes you think differently.
I would actually like to see a documentary on this.
And indeed, the Night Elf Wizard (mage) is one we still have the see in the game. I guess he might have a Tauren Rogue as well.
I still think the best way to combat gold sellers is not to buy gold or characters from them. I've heard arguments that some with little time to play buy level 70 chars and some gold so they can immediately get into highend raids. Is it me or do raidgroups spend many long evenings of playtime on a single instance? If you have time for that, how do you not have time to level up? And how does one play a high level character with enough skill to be of use to the group when you don't know how to play the character well in the first place (what you learn while levelling up).
I still think EvE has the best ingame environment when it comes to players dealing with 'gold farmers' (in this case ISK farmers) themselves; steal from their cans, gank them, shoot them out of the sky. All within game mechanics. Hell, BoB recently kicked Xelas out of their space because of several (Chinese?) macro farmers in Xelas (who did not play by the rules set by BoB for their space).
Guess you havent played any MMOGs huh? I wouldnt mind at all if people sold ingame curency for RL money but the fact that they spam you with messages/emails constantly is frustrating and ruins most of your play time having to block each one soo you can read the messages that people that are actualy trying to play the game to have fun are sending.If they would stop the ingame spam I wouldnt have any problems with them making a living out of it,but id still be pissed off at people who buy their services,cause they ruin the economy and sometimes other player's gaming experience.For exemple in WoW ( I quit after reaching lvl 70) you will bump into lvl 70 ebay chars that join groups and have no idea on how to play,causing group wipes and such... if they would have bothered to start up from lvl 1 the basic questions they ask would of being answered long ago and would of spared alot of people of frustration.
Afew storys ive experienced myself... doing hellfire dungeon,a lvl 70 priest joined the group,we were happy we had help (most of us were lvl 60-62) ... getting rdy to fight,we asked the priest for buffs,aparently he didnt even know what buffs he can do,after 10 mins he finaly figured out ... gave us a power word shield.... ok,we said nvm buffs just heal,we started fighting,but no healing was being done,just us fighting and the priest ... using his staff on the mobs.... with no heals the warrior died and I (rogue) had to tank,in the end I managed to fend them off,then a fun part,warrior asked priest for a rez,we waited 10mins more for the priest to figure out what rez was (by that time the warrior walked back) ... soo we asked him if he was a shadow priest,and other questions trying to figure out why he doesnt heal,after wasting 30-40mins ,frustrated we left.Forgot to mention 2 mins after the priest joined another priest ( a friend of mine,he was a very good healer) asked to join,if the ebayer wouldnt have showed up in those mins we would have had a fun experience... I play games to relax not to get pissed off!
Excellent article!
It tries to make the reader sympathetic to the gold farmer, much like Sopranos makes the viewer sympathetic to the mafia.
It is up to the game companies to make games where either trading isn't possible or some other mechanism makes it so that trading is not necessary or profitable. The problem is that most gamers WANT to be able to trade/buy/sell their unusable loot. Looks like gold farmers [and Walmart] are here to stay.
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
First off, you won't like it very much when a gold farmer is grinding in an area where YOU (the paying customer) is trying to grind for gold, loot or a quest, killing every spawn and thus interfering with YOUR game experience and enjoyment.
The article also clearly shows that these people get paid almost nothing for tedious work during 12 hour shifts. There is nothing cool about it. They are taken advantage off because some Westerners are too damn lazy to play a game they are paying for. It's a sweatshop that doesn't produce Nike shoes or other goodies we in the West buy for tremendously high prices, they are 'producing' ingame currency. The principle is the same. And someone in the West actually gets the big profit out of it. It's almost slave labor. What in the world is cool about slave labor?
Plus, if they do this job, 12 hours a day, 28 days a month for a few years, RSI is bound to sink in, leaving them with no means to do any labor at all anymore. I know people who can't even drive a car because of RSI, ever. Imagine that happening to a Chinese man around the age of thirty, with no children old enough to support him financially yet.
Wow this just reaffirms my belief that gold farming is a crime only on a much nastier scale. Its pratically slave labor and gold buyers are supporting it!
My biggest adversion to the whole practice as a gamer is the inflation it causes. Yea you spend 20 bucks get a few hundred gold but then items you want to buy with it you're wiling to spend reckless amounts on it in order to get it thus forcing everyone else to 'grind more' thus increasing your need to 'buy' more gold because prices skyrocket. Its not always the case depending on the community of a server & the game itself.
In all honesty Blizzard themselves causes the biggest problem with their outrageous built in prices for repairs, re-specing, and mounts. Granted not all mounts should be easy to get but we all know those standard mounts shouldn't cause nearly as much as they do!
btw i wish i could play a monk in WOW (rofl) gah the article writer is clueless.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
This article is the illustrates the economic trends that have the most far-reaching implications in the post-internet world. This illistrates the chances of ever starting an internet service company in the U.S. or E.U. It shows that there is no future in WWW 1.0 company of any kind. Look at the exchange rate of 6 cents for every gold piece and you'll see what I mean.
The advent of WWW 2.0 is because 1.0 doesn't work and will never work again in an industrialized country.
To Shannia,
I respectfully disagree. This writer should not be fired, he should be promoted to editor. The NY Times could use people with his insight.
If you buy gold, you support slave labor. Tired after working all day for the man? Well you can relax out on your patio while your slaves work the cotton farm. I mean, heck you work so hard during the day, and it's your money to spend, right? Why should you farm the cotton to make your own clothes?
Honestly, at least this article brings up both sides of the issue (though briefly). But while it was so busy trying to show "the real side" to gold farming, they barely touch upon the fact that these adults are breaking contracts, destroying entire economies, and forcing real players who don't cop out to grind even more.
If the article would have been factual instead of written on lies, I would agree with you. It is plainly obvious that the author wrote this article on other people's stories on the web about the game. There are many inaccuracies in the article. Night elves don't play wizards in WoW. Summer of 2006 there was no way Li could have been leveling to 70. Too many lies. There are truth in journalism laws and he lied his ass off here and I caught him. Hell, anyone that has played WoW for more than 6 months would have noticed the lies.
So I'm sorry, I can't agree with you he should be editor. The author is a disgrace to journalism professionals. He fabricated his work.
P.S. Chances are most everything you buy in Wal-Mart or off any store shelf in America was made where either child labor or cheap/slave labor is used today. As passing years go by you can't find anything made in America anymore because of cheap overseas labor. So don't go knocking people who buy gold on the internet. Supporting repressed people extends into all walks of life today.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
You can't really call it 'slave labor,' they choose to do this. Yes the economic state in China isn't the best it can be, and there are even worst jobs. Just do a simple search on china, and you'll get tonnes of info on the lower class and how much they struggle. If i'm not mistaken, the author wrote about how they left the rural area to get a better job, although not that much better.
Yes I agree with you that the author didn't really touch on the other side of the topic, but there are tonnes upon tonnes of other articles that you can find dealing with 'contract & law breaking.' This is probably the first article on this side of the issue that I've seen.
Agian, I'm not saying what they do is right, but to us its just a game, while half way around the world its someone's life. The problem doesn't have any easy fix, and I honestly doubt it will ever go away, I guess people will just have to deal with it.
I believe buying gold from gold farmers is against the rules. So, you say that rule is ridiculous. Ok, then, what rules are good and how much can you bend the so called ridiculous rules and not go too far. For those who like to break the rules they don't like in the game, how much do you do that in real life? If someone comes by selling stolen merchandise, you say that is fine because you couldn't afford to buy it at a store? Suppose that stolen computer you bought for a "steal" (really low price), gets stolen. How can you have any problem with that when you break the rules or laws you don't like.
As others have said, it does change the game play, economy of game and interaction in the game in a negative context. So some lvl 70 is showing off his epic mount and tier 6 or whatever high lvl armor. Did he really earn it or know how to play that toon properly or did he just start playing the game in a day or two as a lvl 70 with the best armor because he paid real money for it to some gold farmer.
Sweat shop labor, does that help anyone. For those who can buy the merchandise or whatever for pennies on the dollar, sure everyone loves a good deal, but those earning pennies a day, how about them? There may not be other ways for them to make a living that is much better but why create more sweatshop laborers? If you think that is good, and are willing to support that with your money, then don't be surprised when you see more and more of the same.
As far as I'm concerned, it is against the rules and takes away from what the game could be, kind of like pollution changes our water and air. If what I have read in other places is correct, China doesn't have any problems with breaking rules or laws of copyright, and more and it doesn't seem smart to support that.
Just thought of something that could solve the problem, if the gold farming is good as others say. How about all who play World of Warcraft, just say it isn't worth starting at lvl 1 and everyone buy a lvl 70 whatever race and class you like, with 10,000 gold. Wouldn't that be so cool to have nothing but lvl 70's, with epic mounts and all with the best armor!!! There would be a lot more players that wouldn't know anything about how to play the game but so what, just imagine that, wouldn't that make the game just great! After all, if buying gold from the gold farmers is good for some that it should be good for all. The general chat would be useless because it would be full of noob or newbie questions but so what?
Lets do it!!!!!!!!!!!
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
I have to agree with some of the above posters comments about the NY Times writer should of been someone else. It was, to me, quite obvious that the writer was not writing from any personal experience but seemed to be more from second-hand knowledge.
Put it another way....
I never took a class on stocks, I know virtually nothing about how the stock market works. My father has a friend who is heavily into stocks and trading. If I just sat down and talked to him, how accurate would a report from me about stocks & bonds? Real stockbrokers would see many flaws and errors in the report.
Also, if gold selling and such got really cracked down on these people wouldn't having to be putting in such long days. Since it's "illegal" work, they can't exactly go complain about it now to anyone right? They could then get legit work, with far more acceptable working conditions.
As to the morality of supporting a sweatshop? Many of the clothes/shoes I wear today I suspect are produced in sweatshops, whether it be in China, Indonesia or Mexico. While these people make low wages, w/o the jobs this business creates they would make no money at all, in fact, they might actually just starve to death out in the poorer areas of the country. (yes, in other parts of the world, starvation is very real concern and even some money is better than no money.)
I can live with this. My electricity comes from coal fired power plants that contribute to global warming, I eat meat and wear leather goods that is harvested inhumanely from animals, I look the other way when my children burn DVD's or music CD's (and in fact have a burned CD's in my possession right now. I drive too fast in traffic (just missed a ticket this morning), cut people off in traffic if the mood suits me, and basically confess, I'm anything but perfect. (guess I'd be rejected by e-Harmony.com)
No doubt about it....buying and selling gold is cheating; rule-breaking no matter how you look at it. But then again, everyone choses what rules (and laws) they'll break, both in game (ever make a character with a name that's against the TOS?) and in life.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well most everything I had planned to say, has already been said, but I am still replying with my feelings. I read though all of the other replys (which is shocking for me because I have the attention spawn of a fly) and I know there were plunty of things I had to say back to other replys, but have now forgoten them and am to lazy to re read everything.
Moving along. As a gamer, I believe that gold selling and buying (since to me gold farming is something that you can do for yourself) is wrong. I know it is only a game, but it ruins the economy, it makes it harder to achieve the things that I would like to some day achieve (that is already hard for me, because I prefer to solo my character most of the time). I don't really understand how any economy works, but I do understand, that even in game, it works on the principle of supply and demand, and people who sell and buy gold for real life money only make it even harder to grind for your own gold.
As a person though, I can't stand (sit curled up) here and say "I hate all gold selllers (farmers)." of "Die scum bags!" Even before I red this article, I understood that the majority of gold sellers, make a living, be it a low class one, but still a living, farming so much gold a day. I understand how sitting in front of a computer screen for that many hours a day, with few days off, is hard on your body, but would they really be better off making shoes, or the numberus other things that are made in China (or other heavly populated areas with cheap labor). I do realize that if there weren't buyers, then there wouldn't be a need for sellers, but if they aren't working for a company farming gold to sell, then were would they work. How danagerus is it for them to be working those same hours in front of, say a sewing machine, or a some large indusreal machine, that with the slighest miscaluclation could take a limb, or worse, a life. I'm not saying those hours in front of a computer screen isn't dangerus to ones health, but I believe that it's less dangerus then other things that they could be doing. Unless there is a drop in demand for other protucts made with cheap labor in dangerus work envirments by those who are working long shifts, then there will still be a market for those types of jobs.
If we're going to come down of gold buyers, cause their promoting "slave laber", as some have called it, or "cheap laber", then should be come down on, athletes, or teenagers, or parents of teens, or anybody who buys Nikes, or Adidas (or any other various brand name sports wear) that are made in sweat shops. Should we get down on college stunts, high school stunts, or parents of school age children (or anybody who might buy a back pack for any reason) or at least JanSport back packs, that are resenable priced, includes a lifetime garante (and are made in Thailand). There are a number of things, because of the demand of "westerners", are made in sweat shops, why is it so much worse for these gold sellers to do it, just because it's makeing things more complecated instead of more convient? I mean is it ok for someone to work under those same conditions, if their making clothes, that get shipped to america and sold cheaper, that makes it harder for a home own bussiness to compete, but not ok if their farming gold to sell, that makes it hard for a legit player to grind for their own gold to get that epic level mount. While I will never buy gold for any game, I can't say that I will stop buying products just because I notice "Made in China" printed on the label.
I also caught the few mistakes in the article, I don't think it means it was a lie, I think it means he didn't quite understand some of the game basics, or maybe they were just mistakes, what do I know about journalism, and it sounded to me like he did this study for a long period of time, and wrote this article later. I know that there are plenty of mistakes in what I just wrote, because I don't fully understand things like supply and demand, or econics, or the invulence the american market has on the Chinese work forse. These are just the personal opions of someone who has almost be on this planet for 22 years, who only has a high school level education, and still can't spell. (I dout highly that anyone else will read all of this, heck I wouldn't read all of this if someone else wrote it, so if you do get though all my rambleing, and atchally make any since of it at all (even if you disagree with it all...
)
Dee Dee Dee!
Well not sure if it was mentioned previously, but South Korea was supposedly working on legislation to outlaw gold farming and such. Not to mention in the coming months we will see how Blizzard's lawsuit pans out.
Of course the "legality" of this issue is difficult since the games are played internationally. So if South Korea outlaws it, what does that mean to the chinese farmer selling to his american buyer? Not much really....
A one-strike you're banned for buying would work. No second chance, no excuses, sorry your 70 who wanted an epic flying mount just went POOF.
Dee Dee Dee!