Personally, the arrival of Warcraft has seen the MMO genre take a step back. Publishers and developers are just copying the format (like Lord of the rings online) and slapping their branding all over it.
A lot of folks say this and it's horribly misguided. WoW didn't push anything back, it actually brought the field forward without actually creating many significant game advancements... though the few advancements Blizzard made are quite noteworthy. But for the most part, outside of quest-driven atmosphere, Blizzard copied Turbine's AC2, not the other way around.
In terms of technology and usability, WoW is a leap forward though. And IMHO that's the two areas in which MMOGs are still consistently underdeveloped. The lack of good technologies in MMOGs is why we wind up with crappy game mechanics, game-ruining expansions, and idiotic revamps a la NGE.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
In all honesty though. I really miss the old SWG, especially my ships. God I miss my ships. So armed to the gills that it hurt to sometimes kill things. And to top if off theres no good substitute. Nothing out there at all. I've tried EvE and NO thank you, especially after the bullshit with the Dev's cheating and giving their corporations some top end blue-prints and then the company (cant remember atm name escapes me) turning a blind eye to their actions!
The only other game that i felt could compete was EnB, primarily because of the awesome community. 99% of them were older, more mature gamers and you could really see the difference. i really miss EnB too.
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a Star Wars MMO with that kind of art style. I think it would look very unique. And well, at least it would be bug-free and simple to enjoy if Blizzard did it *wink*
I get a lil tried hearing how so many left after NGE.. The facts are that the biggest drops in accounts were prior to NGE.. People just hated the crap that SOE was pushing well before NGE.. Stop having selective memories peeps.. SWG failed well before NGE.. NGE came because SWG was a sinking ship and someone had to stop the leak.. NGE was that attempt..
WoW is as successful as it is because it is very very casual friendly.. It's a game that power gamers can't monopolize.. This is why Blizzard has millions of customers.. more then ALL of the SOE family put together.. I'm sorry power gamers that SWG wasn't your cup of tea or didn't turn out the way you wanted it.. oh well..... TIS LIFE.. lol
I for one would support Blizzard doing a Sci Fi mmo.. I wouldn't trust SOE to make me toast at this point.. They would end up burning it black and then tell me, "you love it, now eat it".
Without all the stability, content, bug fixes, and players.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I get a lil tried hearing how so many left after NGE.. The facts are that the biggest drops in accounts were prior to NGE.. People just hated the crap that SOE was pushing well before NGE.. Stop having selective memories peeps.. SWG failed well before NGE.. NGE came because SWG was a sinking ship and someone had to stop the leak.. NGE was that attempt..
You are in the wrong forum!
Besides that, you are quite out of touch from reality. The CU did nothing but accelerating the number of playeres leaving SWG. The NGE, well that would be close to a free fall in players leaving.
Now we'll never know, but I doubt there would be less then 200k subscribers left today if they kept on working on the old SWG game. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the players that left for WoW would be back in SWG by now (if the CU and NGE never happened that is).
Star Wars WoW? I think that was attempted last time with the NGE, why would we wanna see another attempt? One of the problems with all the companies that are making clones of WoW is the amount of money that Blizzard actually put into the game itself just for development alone. These companies don't wanna spend millions on creating a game that they really aren't sure is gonna be as successful as Blizzard has been. SoE had something that was really unique to the MMO genre with SWG then they and LA really screwed up big time. There is alot of blame always being pointed at SoE but LA is just as guilty and should share some of the blame. Hopefully in due time with the new dev team and producer that things will start moving forward and become a really enjoyable game again. They have so much potential with the star wars franchise.
One where you could fly about in space and blow up Death Stars and a 40 man raid on Vader lol. One where theres like a 100 vs 100 space battlegrounds and where all the StarWarsy stuff happens? Cause thats what SWG missed for StarWars fans as they were expecting all that stuff and got none of it.
Oh, I thought you meant a beautifully rendered, massive game world, where pretty much everything works, and which provides tons of challenging content for all levels of play.
No, I would hate that.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
The secret of WoW's success is not dungeons, 40 man raids and class leveling. Its a high degree of polish, fun things to do, new things to explore and a solid working game. Its a pity that many MMO companies (SOE included) can't see that and copy that instead of just churning out yet another fantasy game to try and capture some of their customers.
The secret of WoW's success is not dungeons, 40 man raids and class leveling. Its a high degree of polish, fun things to do, new things to explore and a solid working game. Its a pity that many MMO companies (SOE included) can't see that and copy that instead of just churning out yet another fantasy game to try and capture some of their customers.
TESTIFY!!!!!
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
The secret of WoW's success is not dungeons, 40 man raids and class leveling. Its a high degree of polish, fun things to do, new things to explore and a solid working game. Its a pity that many MMO companies (SOE included) can't see that and copy that instead of just churning out yet another fantasy game to try and capture some of their customers.
Well it's also a matter of marketing. Blizzard did not launch a "silent campaign" in marketing World of Warcraft. battle.net (one of the most popular multiplayer services for blizzard's games) was advertising it bigtime. Blizzard was lobbying the gaming magazines to go crazy the minute they unveiled new stuff.
Then there is the reputation of Blizzard. They were the undisputed king of the RTS genre. With Starcraft and then the Warcraft series, they dominated the market. WC3 practically swept game of the year awards. They also had one of the more successful RPG"s of all time in Diablo. With their reputation, they could've released PONG and hundreds of thousands would've been caught up in the frenzy. That's a testament to Blizzard knowing how to get the job done.
They also had an immensly detailed intellectual property in the World of Azeroth. They didn't need to invent much of a storyline, they had a huge storyline. In order to peak interest in the rpg world for their rts gurus, they introduced people to Rexxar in the Frozen Throne, in (what I feel) was a brilliant campaign that was more fun than the expansion itself.
Everyone tends to act as if Blizzard was some unknown game company before WoW. Truth be told, they were one of the most well known and critically acclaimed companies around. They had a reputation of high polish and little bugs in their games. There was also a thirsting for something new in the MMO market around the time that WoW came out. The market was not as saturated as it is today.
If anything, it will probably be another 5 years before the "perfect storm" of scenarios exists for another World of Warcraft to come along.
Originally posted by iceman00 Originally posted by Mordah The secret of WoW's success is not dungeons, 40 man raids and class leveling. Its a high degree of polish, fun things to do, new things to explore and a solid working game. Its a pity that many MMO companies (SOE included) can't see that and copy that instead of just churning out yet another fantasy game to try and capture some of their customers.
Well it's also a matter of marketing. Blizzard did not launch a "silent campaign" in marketing World of Warcraft. battle.net (one of the most popular multiplayer services for blizzard's games) was advertising it bigtime. Blizzard was lobbying the gaming magazines to go crazy the minute they unveiled new stuff. Then there is the reputation of Blizzard. They were the undisputed king of the RTS genre. With Starcraft and then the Warcraft series, they dominated the market. WC3 practically swept game of the year awards. They also had one of the more successful RPG"s of all time in Diablo. With their reputation, they could've released PONG and hundreds of thousands would've been caught up in the frenzy. That's a testament to Blizzard knowing how to get the job done. They also had an immensly detailed intellectual property in the World of Azeroth. They didn't need to invent much of a storyline, they had a huge storyline. In order to peak interest in the rpg world for their rts gurus, they introduced people to Rexxar in the Frozen Throne, in (what I feel) was a brilliant campaign that was more fun than the expansion itself. Everyone tends to act as if Blizzard was some unknown game company before WoW. Truth be told, they were one of the most well known and critically acclaimed companies around. They had a reputation of high polish and little bugs in their games. There was also a thirsting for something new in the MMO market around the time that WoW came out. The market was not as saturated as it is today. If anything, it will probably be another 5 years before the "perfect storm" of scenarios exists for another World of Warcraft to come along.
This is all true yes, but the problem is is that most of the hardcore or classic gamers know this stuff. I'll admit blizzard did an excellent job with WoW but they were well known and the games were classic to anyone who played PC games as the games prior to MMO's and the like were RTS and FPS, and aside from microsoft games with Age Of Empires Warcraft/Starcraft were the ONLY names in RTS
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
If people want the WoW model they will play WoW! because it is the best that kind of game can be.(whether you like the game or not)
However if you copy the wow model for a game with an IP such as SW or LOTRO or whatever, you will get people to play ONLY because of that IP. (If they dont care about the IP they will play WoW instead)
As such what is the point in using the WoW model for gameplay if the only people who will play your game are playing BECAUSE of the IP. So if your game is using an IP you might as well go with a different game model to WoW's to get additional players who play because its NOT WoW, now the preference here would be using the UO/SWG style, for others it could be a Thief/ PoP or a FIFA/sports game type model. But whatever it is copying WoW is no longer an option.
I get a lil tried hearing how so many left after NGE.. The facts are that the biggest drops in accounts were prior to NGE.. People just hated the crap that SOE was pushing well before NGE.. Stop having selective memories peeps.. SWG failed well before NGE.. NGE came because SWG was a sinking ship and someone had to stop the leak.. NGE was that attempt..
WoW is as successful as it is because it is very very casual friendly.. It's a game that power gamers can't monopolize.. This is why Blizzard has millions of customers.. more then ALL of the SOE family put together.. I'm sorry power gamers that SWG wasn't your cup of tea or didn't turn out the way you wanted it.. oh well..... TIS LIFE.. lol
I for one would support Blizzard doing a Sci Fi mmo.. I wouldn't trust SOE to make me toast at this point.. They would end up burning it black and then tell me, "you love it, now eat it".
Wrong there dude,
The numbers of cancellations after the NGE went live easily doubles or triples the number of cancellations at once at any time prior to then.
The lack of intel is amazing at times.. The drop rate of subs in SWG dropped drastically before CU and NGE.. as for the big drop you would LIKE to infer is when SWG became PART of the SOE family package.. because before that time.. SWG was a seperate subcription of iit's own... KNOW you facts DUDE, before making a fool of yourself.. No need to say thanks.. you're welcome for the intel
Some people just can't handle the truth, no mater how many people tell you.. Old Yeller is still dead.. There are no alien spaceships in Area 51, and SWG still sucked before NGE.. The sooner you accept these simple truths, the quicker you can move on..
Rydeson, from your posts i can tell that you are (at least in your own mind) the formost authority on all things swg, and of course fun itself, but why don't you move on to another forum where everyone likes your idea of fun? Perhaps the current forum?
Originally posted by Rydeson
The lack of intel is amazing at times.. The drop rate of subs in SWG dropped drastically before CU and NGE.. as for the big drop you would LIKE to infer is when SWG became PART of the SOE family package.. because before that time.. SWG was a seperate subcription of iit's own... KNOW you facts DUDE, before making a fool of yourself.. No need to say thanks.. you're welcome for the intel
Some people just can't handle the truth, no mater how many people tell you.. Old Yeller is still dead.. There are no alien spaceships in Area 51, and SWG still sucked before NGE.. The sooner you accept these simple truths, the quicker you can move on..
Rydeson, from your posts i can tell that you are (at least in your own mind) the formost authority on all things swg, and of course fun itself, but why don't you move on to another forum where everyone likes your idea of fun? Perhaps the current forum?
Originally posted by Rydeson
The lack of intel is amazing at times.. The drop rate of subs in SWG dropped drastically before CU and NGE.. as for the big drop you would LIKE to infer is when SWG became PART of the SOE family package.. because before that time.. SWG was a seperate subcription of iit's own... KNOW you facts DUDE, before making a fool of yourself.. No need to say thanks.. you're welcome for the intel
Some people just can't handle the truth, no mater how many people tell you.. Old Yeller is still dead.. There are no alien spaceships in Area 51, and SWG still sucked before NGE.. The sooner you accept these simple truths, the quicker you can move on..
Did I read the title of the lobby right.. It does say "SWG Veteran Refuge", not "SWG NGE bashing".. Let me guess.. If you and others wish to go back to Pre NGE days, fine.... But don't dare come to these boards saying how perfect it was.. It was far from that and the subscription numbers prove that.. 60% of original SWG was great., however the other 40% destroyed it .. Now if you wish to accept that there were major game breaking problems with Original SWG, then we'll get along just fine
Comments
In terms of technology and usability, WoW is a leap forward though. And IMHO that's the two areas in which MMOGs are still consistently underdeveloped. The lack of good technologies in MMOGs is why we wind up with crappy game mechanics, game-ruining expansions, and idiotic revamps a la NGE.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
SWG+WOW= SWG-NGE...
In all honesty though. I really miss the old SWG, especially my ships. God I miss my ships. So armed to the gills that it hurt to sometimes kill things. And to top if off theres no good substitute. Nothing out there at all. I've tried EvE and NO thank you, especially after the bullshit with the Dev's cheating and giving their corporations some top end blue-prints and then the company (cant remember atm name escapes me) turning a blind eye to their actions!
The only other game that i felt could compete was EnB, primarily because of the awesome community. 99% of them were older, more mature gamers and you could really see the difference. i really miss EnB too.
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
WoW is as successful as it is because it is very very casual friendly.. It's a game that power gamers can't monopolize.. This is why Blizzard has millions of customers.. more then ALL of the SOE family put together.. I'm sorry power gamers that SWG wasn't your cup of tea or didn't turn out the way you wanted it.. oh well..... TIS LIFE.. lol
I for one would support Blizzard doing a Sci Fi mmo.. I wouldn't trust SOE to make me toast at this point.. They would end up burning it black and then tell me, "you love it, now eat it".
Without all the stability, content, bug fixes, and players.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
You are in the wrong forum!
Besides that, you are quite out of touch from reality. The CU did nothing but accelerating the number of playeres leaving SWG. The NGE, well that would be close to a free fall in players leaving.
Now we'll never know, but I doubt there would be less then 200k subscribers left today if they kept on working on the old SWG game. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the players that left for WoW would be back in SWG by now (if the CU and NGE never happened that is).
SWG is now the NGE
It has already been done.
No, I would hate that.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
TESTIFY!!!!!
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Well it's also a matter of marketing. Blizzard did not launch a "silent campaign" in marketing World of Warcraft. battle.net (one of the most popular multiplayer services for blizzard's games) was advertising it bigtime. Blizzard was lobbying the gaming magazines to go crazy the minute they unveiled new stuff.
Then there is the reputation of Blizzard. They were the undisputed king of the RTS genre. With Starcraft and then the Warcraft series, they dominated the market. WC3 practically swept game of the year awards. They also had one of the more successful RPG"s of all time in Diablo. With their reputation, they could've released PONG and hundreds of thousands would've been caught up in the frenzy. That's a testament to Blizzard knowing how to get the job done.
They also had an immensly detailed intellectual property in the World of Azeroth. They didn't need to invent much of a storyline, they had a huge storyline. In order to peak interest in the rpg world for their rts gurus, they introduced people to Rexxar in the Frozen Throne, in (what I feel) was a brilliant campaign that was more fun than the expansion itself.
Everyone tends to act as if Blizzard was some unknown game company before WoW. Truth be told, they were one of the most well known and critically acclaimed companies around. They had a reputation of high polish and little bugs in their games. There was also a thirsting for something new in the MMO market around the time that WoW came out. The market was not as saturated as it is today.
If anything, it will probably be another 5 years before the "perfect storm" of scenarios exists for another World of Warcraft to come along.
Well it's also a matter of marketing. Blizzard did not launch a "silent campaign" in marketing World of Warcraft. battle.net (one of the most popular multiplayer services for blizzard's games) was advertising it bigtime. Blizzard was lobbying the gaming magazines to go crazy the minute they unveiled new stuff.
Then there is the reputation of Blizzard. They were the undisputed king of the RTS genre. With Starcraft and then the Warcraft series, they dominated the market. WC3 practically swept game of the year awards. They also had one of the more successful RPG"s of all time in Diablo. With their reputation, they could've released PONG and hundreds of thousands would've been caught up in the frenzy. That's a testament to Blizzard knowing how to get the job done.
They also had an immensly detailed intellectual property in the World of Azeroth. They didn't need to invent much of a storyline, they had a huge storyline. In order to peak interest in the rpg world for their rts gurus, they introduced people to Rexxar in the Frozen Throne, in (what I feel) was a brilliant campaign that was more fun than the expansion itself.
Everyone tends to act as if Blizzard was some unknown game company before WoW. Truth be told, they were one of the most well known and critically acclaimed companies around. They had a reputation of high polish and little bugs in their games. There was also a thirsting for something new in the MMO market around the time that WoW came out. The market was not as saturated as it is today.
If anything, it will probably be another 5 years before the "perfect storm" of scenarios exists for another World of Warcraft to come along.
This is all true yes, but the problem is is that most of the hardcore or classic gamers know this stuff. I'll admit blizzard did an excellent job with WoW but they were well known and the games were classic to anyone who played PC games as the games prior to MMO's and the like were RTS and FPS, and aside from microsoft games with Age Of Empires Warcraft/Starcraft were the ONLY names in RTS
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
Copying the WoW model now is useless.
If people want the WoW model they will play WoW! because it is the best that kind of game can be.(whether you like the game or not)
However if you copy the wow model for a game with an IP such as SW or LOTRO or whatever, you will get people to play ONLY because of that IP. (If they dont care about the IP they will play WoW instead)
As such what is the point in using the WoW model for gameplay if the only people who will play your game are playing BECAUSE of the IP. So if your game is using an IP you might as well go with a different game model to WoW's to get additional players who play because its NOT WoW, now the preference here would be using the UO/SWG style, for others it could be a Thief/ PoP or a FIFA/sports game type model. But whatever it is copying WoW is no longer an option.
Wrong there dude,
The numbers of cancellations after the NGE went live easily doubles or triples the number of cancellations at once at any time prior to then.
Pre-CU SWG = 350,000
CU SWG = 250,000
1 week after NGE: SWG = MAYBE 30,000.
The math isn't very tough...
Some people just can't handle the truth, no mater how many people tell you.. Old Yeller is still dead.. There are no alien spaceships in Area 51, and SWG still sucked before NGE.. The sooner you accept these simple truths, the quicker you can move on..
Rydeson, from your posts i can tell that you are (at least in your own mind) the formost authority on all things swg, and of course fun itself, but why don't you move on to another forum where everyone likes your idea of fun? Perhaps the current forum?