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  • Originally posted by Jackdog



    Game companies are wasting their money if they think forum posts by paid shills works.Viral marketing just does not work. If game companies want to sell games they need to do it the old fashioned way and make a good game like Turbine did and people wil vote with their wallets..



    Where do you come up with those wild theories?

    Do you really think that any game company is actually going to pay people to go out and post messages on forums?

    And I voted with my wallet - I cancelled my LOTRO sub.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908

    oops

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908
    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by Laiina

    Originally posted by Jackdog



    Game companies are wasting their money if they think forum posts by paid shills works.Viral marketing just does not work. If game companies want to sell games they need to do it the old fashioned way and make a good game like Turbine did and people wil vote with their wallets..



    Where do you come up with those wild theories?

    Do you really think that any game company is actually going to pay people to go out and post messages on forums?

    And I voted with my wallet - I cancelled my LOTRO sub.

     

    Sorry, but you are both wrong and naive...

    Of course Shills exist, and of course they are paid to frequent forums and become, in big business speak, become 'OPINION FORMERS'.

    It's requires a miniscule budget and has a deeply deeply reaching effect, especially compared to conventional advertising.

    Search SHIV on Google for a start...

    My advice is don't belive ANYTHING you read online... the paid off corruption is unpoliced and unfeterred.... Including THIS site.

    The Internet is the Wild West right now... why would you trust ANYTIHNG you read?

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321
    Originally posted by phjille

    What i find the most funny is that when a game is launched everyone is okay with it but when it gets a bit popular many starts hating it
    heh heh notice how 2 or three of the people here all post within a few minurtes of each other consistently and their posts are almost always followed by a three or four post wonder. Things that make you go hmmm.

    I miss DAoC

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321
    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by Laiina

    Originally posted by Jackdog



    Game companies are wasting their money if they think forum posts by paid shills works.Viral marketing just does not work. If game companies want to sell games they need to do it the old fashioned way and make a good game like Turbine did and people wil vote with their wallets..



    Where do you come up with those wild theories?

    Do you really think that any game company is actually going to pay people to go out and post messages on forums?

    And I voted with my wallet - I cancelled my LOTRO sub.

     

    Sorry, but you are both wrong and naive...

    Of course Shills exist, and of course they are paid to frequent forums and become, in big business speak, become 'OPINION FORMERS'.

    It's requires a miniscule budget and has a deeply deeply reaching effect, especially compared to conventional advertising.

    Search SHIV on Google for a start...

    My advice is don't belive ANYTHING you read online... the paid off corruption is unpoliced and unfeterred.... Including THIS site.

    The Internet is the Wild West right now... why would you trust ANYTIHNG you read?


    obviously it is not having much if effect on LoTROs sales judging from my original post. The game just keeps on selling and selling

    I miss DAoC

  • Originally posted by Jackdog

    obviously it is not having much if effect on LoTROs sales judging from my original post. The game just keeps on selling and selling
    Which just shows that some people will buy anything with the LOTR name on it. And that is not meant to be sarcastic, the same effect happened when SWG first came out....
  • Originally posted by phjille

    What i find the most funny is that when a game is launched everyone is okay with it but when it gets a bit popular many starts hating it



    It is funny, but it is nothing new. Every new game when it first comes out (except Vanguard...) is all full of shiny sparkles and stuff on the surface.

    But long term, some games go downhill a lot faster if the content is not there, or if it was overhyped. When AoC comes out, I am expecting it to go to 9.9 the first week, just like LOTRO did. But check back in a couple of months, and it will be right back around the 8.0 area.

  • Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by vesavius


    Sorry, but you are both wrong and naive...
    Of course Shills exist, and of course they are paid to frequent forums and become, in big business speak, become 'OPINION FORMERS'.
    It's requires a miniscule budget and has a deeply deeply reaching effect, especially compared to conventional advertising.
    Search SHIV on Google for a start...
    My advice is don't belive ANYTHING you read online... the paid off corruption is unpoliced and unfeterred.... Including THIS site.
    The Internet is the Wild West right now... why would you trust ANYTIHNG you read?

    Where do you come with "OF COURSE"?

    That is kind of like saying tha "of course" UFO's from other planets exist - it does not offer much in the way of proof.

    I have been active in mmo forums for some 10 years, and I have never actually seen one of those mythical shills. Nor met anyone that did. Nor met anyone that knew anyone that might have a cousin that knew one.

    To me, this falls solidly into the Urban Myth category.

    Perhaps I am not the one that is naive...

  • ColdmeatColdmeat Member UncommonPosts: 3,409

    They show up from the gold sellers pretty frequently. Some just make a straightforward ad post for their site a couple times before getting banned.

    Some, though, have made like they were actual posters, and would toss up a link under the guise of being about a LotRO spoiler site, or otherwise pretend to be a legit post, when in fact it just a link back to their gold sales site.

    There was one here in the LotRO forum just a couple weeks ago. Made like 5 or 6 posts, all of which were deleted, other than the one asking why a post of Meridion's had been reported.

    I've also seen some pimping various F2P Asian games in the Pub in the general forums.


    Most of this shill tripe came about because of Vanguard. Mostly because people seem to have trouble believing that if their computer wasn't getting adequate performance, that anyone else's could be. Or that someone could possibly dislike their favorite video game, or ice cream flavor.

    I figure if someone is so emotionally invested in a video game that they have come up with wacky conspiracy theories to explain away how someone could dislike what they see as so obviously perfect, then that's their problem.

    Though, in Jackdog's case, I do find it amusing that someone who jumped into every single thread about that "other" game for about 2 months, gets so much sand in his vagina over people not fellating LotRO from every angle.

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321
    Originally posted by Laiina

    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Originally posted by vesavius


    I am just sorry that this game will be many players first experience of MMORPGs.


    I imagine you are, once they have tried the best then they will be spoiled.

    You mean after they play EQ2 or WOW or some other game?

    Because LOTRO sure ain't the best.

    My biggest fear is that all those people whose first mmo is LOTRO will think it really IS the best, and not try one of the many better ones. You know, one of those with actual content and stuff...

    so you really think people are going to believe you,  over all of these



    www.lotro.com/article/276



    get  grip take and take a look at these forums. There are less than half a dozen of us that have the same arguments day in and day out. For me it is just entertainment, a nice bit of mental exercise, same as it was when we were on opposite ends of the spectrum over on those other forums Coldmeat.  Las fall and for a couple of months after release you seemed to be firmly in Brads and Smeds camp and I kept telling you there was no way they could fix that game, too much was wrong in the original design. Believe me now ?



    As far as the viral marketing being a myth ,do a Google



    www.google.com/search





    question is does it work? Possibly in a positive direction to a degree id it is used correctly. Basic marketing psychology will teach you that people want to believe. But that only works in the positive direction, and it is not nearly as effective as the viral marketers want you to believe.



    Two customers read a LOTRO sucks post on the EQII forums. The first customer is satisfied with the game will probably not be as likely to pick up that LoTRO box on a whim when he is in WalMart. However take a dissatisfied/bored customer who want to find another game and posting LoTRO sucks on that same forum has simply planted a seed and he may look at the box and think WTF it's only 50 bucks.



     The best way to market the game is the old fashioned way and one of these days a certain game company may realize that. build a good game and customers will come. Good reviews from professional game web sites and magazines works well, because they are reputable. This board has a reputation as a troll board plain and simple.  Look at the list at the left and find me one game that is in release and has a majority of positive posts.



    Now back to the OP. At the 8 week mark LoTRO has went past the original release hype sales and is now into the realm of  word of mouth friend to friend sales. It has proved itself  by staying on the charts for 8 weeks now. Now the people buying are buying because their old buddy from EQII or  WoW has tried it and likes it. LoTRO is now a success and the only thing that can kill it now is Turbine, just as the only thing that can kill WoW is Blizzard. Eat your hearts out SOE



    Remember,make a good game and they shall come And Viral marketers maybe you should find a profession you can be proud of , maybe the local bus station needs someone to clean the rest rooms or something LOL

    I miss DAoC

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908
    Originally posted by Laiina

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by vesavius


    Sorry, but you are both wrong and naive...
    Of course Shills exist, and of course they are paid to frequent forums and become, in big business speak, become 'OPINION FORMERS'.
    It's requires a miniscule budget and has a deeply deeply reaching effect, especially compared to conventional advertising.
    Search SHIV on Google for a start...
    My advice is don't belive ANYTHING you read online... the paid off corruption is unpoliced and unfeterred.... Including THIS site.
    The Internet is the Wild West right now... why would you trust ANYTIHNG you read?

    Where do you come with "OF COURSE"?

    That is kind of like saying tha "of course" UFO's from other planets exist - it does not offer much in the way of proof.

    I have been active in mmo forums for some 10 years, and I have never actually seen one of those mythical shills. Nor met anyone that did. Nor met anyone that knew anyone that might have a cousin that knew one.

    To me, this falls solidly into the Urban Myth category.

    Perhaps I am not the one that is naive...

     

    Thats fine, believe what you want to, but Shills are a fact of life of modern big business on the net. It is an openly recognised activity and has nothing to do with ridiculous attempts to link it with UFOs or whatever.

    My company employs shills, I know this for a fact. I could give you their user names.

    But no, I am not one of those, and the company has nothing to do with gaming, and no I am not gonna say any more to prove it.

    Believe what you will.

  • antoniuspiusantoniuspius Member Posts: 55
    The more popular lotro and mmorpgs get, the less nerdy y'all 30 year old UO Gamers seem. Maybe in 5 years even powergamers, who want to get frustrated in video games, will be accepted by society
  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,572
    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Originally posted by Coldmeat


     
    Really, it's okay that people don't like your little video game.
    Unless you're getting p2p it, in which case carry on.
    Looks like the only ones who do not care for it are the people who seem to be fans of SOE games LOL. All the professional reviewers like it, www.lotro.com/article/276  it is still selling well 2 months after release, mostly due to word of mouth  Maybe you should go give Vanguard a second (or third?) try Cold,  I hope someday you may find a decent game that you can enjoy also.

    Wrong.  I can't stand soe and probably will never play any of their games again due to what they did with swg, among other things.  I tried LOTRO for awhile but could never get into it.  Nothing really new or innovative and I wasn't having much fun when I played.  Its not a bad game, just not as good as all the fanboys claim it to be.

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • matraquematraque Member Posts: 1,431
    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Originally posted by matraque

    EQ2 is now on par with LOTRO on mmorpg.com interesting.



    IMO, EQ2 is WAAAYYYY better then LOTRO.  So for a casual experience, my vote goes to EQ2.
    But wait! last week when LoTRO was firmly ahead those ratings did not mean crap remember  The only thing that really matters is when people vote with their wallets and the fact the game has been doing well on the sales chartsd speaks volumes more than a few paid shills on the forums



    Face it guys/gals no one gives a flying rats rectum whether some paid shill or fan boy on a forum posts positive or negative posts about the game. They  have been burned too many times with games like Dark and Light and Vanguard to believe a few paid/non paid fan boy posts.  What sells a game are good  professional reviews on reputable sites and word of mouth from people they have gamed with or know personally.



    Game companies are wasting their money if they think forum posts by paid shills works.Viral marketing just does not work. If game companies want to sell games they need to do it the old fashioned way and make a good game like Turbine did and people wil vote with their wallets.. Then ask your friends to re-review EQ2.  It will score better then LOTRO.



    Funny how you aren`t supposed to be a fanboi...

    eqnext.wikia.com

  • DarkJaceDarkJace Member CommonPosts: 65
    So much flaming against LotRO. If you don't like it, don't worry about it?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    WoW: Lamere, 70 Paladin on Jaedenar (retired)

    DAoC: Cadore Ironmace, 50 Cleric (retired)

    SWG: Dolthin Erid, Master CH/Master Pistoleer (NGE'd)

    Waiting for: Warhammer Online/Age of Conan

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321
    Originally posted by matraque

    Then ask your friends to re-review EQ2.  It will score better then LOTRO.



    Funny how you aren`t supposed to be a fanboi...
    My friends? WTF are you talking about?



     Anyway I think it is a safe bet to say that no SOE product will ever out score LoTRO SOE lucked out once with EQ. Even EQII had it's ass stomped by WoW at release and I was a EQII fan. I was a EQII player from beta through last fall, and I can safely say that while EQII is not a bad game, it is no where near LoTRO and Turbine has SOE beat hands down as far as customer service.



    SOE just does not have a clue on concept and design and all their money does not seem to be able to buy one. Vanguard was proof positive on that, hell even Microsloth had the brains to dump that pile of feces and 'ol SOE lapped it up like it was chunky peanut butter then had the balls to ask the EQII and their other games fans to bankroll it by raising their Station Pass rates by 10 dollars in a years time.

    On the fanboy remark, I hope AoC and WAR both turn out to be blockbusters also.maybe SOE will learn that to get customers the best way is to produce a good game and then treat their customers with some respect.

    I miss DAoC

  • matraquematraque Member Posts: 1,431
    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Originally posted by matraque

    Then ask your friends to re-review EQ2.  It will score better then LOTRO.



    Funny how you aren`t supposed to be a fanboi...
    My friends? WTF are you talking about?



     Anyway I think it is a safe bet to say that no SOE product will ever out score LoTRO SOE lucked out once with EQ. Even EQII had it's ass stomped by WoW at release and I was a EQII fan. I was a EQII player from beta through last fall, and I can safely say that while EQII is not a bad game, it is no where near LoTRO and Turbine has SOE beat hands down as far as customer service.



    SOE just does not have a clue on concept and design and all their money does not seem to be able to buy one. Vanguard was proof positive on that, hell even Microsloth had the brains to dump that pile of feces and 'ol SOE lapped it up like it was chunky peanut butter then had the balls to ask the EQII and their other games fans to bankroll it by raising their Station Pass rates by 10 dollars in a years time.

    On the fanboy remark, I hope AoC and WAR both turn out to be blockbusters also.maybe SOE will learn that to get customers the best way is to produce a good game and then treat their customers with some respect. Outscore?  It will.  Just watch LOTRO going below EQ2 in a couple weeks.  But i`m pretty sure you will make sure it does not happens by creating bazillions of accout to make it look better.  No matter how you want to twist it, EQ2 is better then LOTRO in every aspect that they share.



    The only thing LOTRO did right is to make sure the game looks pretty and polish so that pro reviewers can give it a 8.5 after their couple hours of gameplay.  The rest... is not there.  Sorry.  Just read every thread here and everyone seems to agree that LOTRO is "so so" at best.  The only thing Turbine did right is to put a LOTR skin on a generic game



    As for VG, we all know it is not a commercial success.  It's not news to anyone.  Even if i play ATM, i know there's problems with the game.  I'm not in denial.  Looking forward to WAR myself.  AoC with it`s new combat system is not interesting anymore to me.



    Seems the only argument you have for LOTRO is the number of box the sold...



    You should bring back your "upsetting fanboi" signature.

    eqnext.wikia.com

  • Originally posted by Jackdog

    My friends? WTF are you talking about?



    .... while EQII is not a bad game, it is no where near LoTRO and Turbine has SOE beat hands down as far as customer service.



    Odd.

    It took me 6 years to get bored with EQ1.

    It took me 3 years to get bored with EQ2

    It took me 2 months to give up on Vanguard, even though it was probably the worst release of a game in 8 years.

    It took me 3 DAYS to get bored with LOTRO, even though I prolonged the agony for 3 weeks before I officially cancelled.

    Now you can draw your own conclusions from that, but in my opinion the churn rate in LOTRO will be much much higher than EQ, EQ2, or WOW.

  • Originally posted by matraque

    Outscore?  It will.  Just watch LOTRO going below EQ2 in a couple weeks.  But i`m pretty sure you will make sure it does not happens by creating bazillions of accout to make it look better.  No matter how you want to twist it, EQ2 is better then LOTRO in every aspect that they share.



    The only thing LOTRO did right is to make sure the game looks pretty and polish so that pro reviewers can give it a 8.5 after their couple hours of gameplay.  The rest... is not there.  Sorry.  Just read every thread here and everyone seems to agree that LOTRO is "so so" at best.  The only thing Turbine did right is to put a LOTR skin on a generic game



    I actually think it will be longer than 2 weeks.

    I think LOTRO's fall will begin in about a month, but when it does happen, it will fall fast.

    I am guessing it will be an 8.0 or less in 2 months and be off the front page.

    I could be wrong, we will see. If so feel free to point out this post in two months.

    But I don't think so.

  • RedtalonRedtalon Member Posts: 24

    Its about time the score reflected how good a game LOTR is not.

    Its just a rehash of Turbines graphics engine with a combat and quest system that makes WoW look complex (no offense to WoW).

     

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321
    Originally posted by Laiina



    I am guessing it will be an 8.0 or less in 2 months and be off the front page.


    Who cares? The rating here does not mean crap anyway.  Do you think the people over at Blizzard really give a damn that WoW is at 8.1 when  they are counting the money the game makes each month? For all the crap WoW gets here do you think it would still be selling like it does if people were not enjoying it? The last time I looked the reason people bought games were that they enjoyed them, and the reason companies make games is because they make money from them. Thats all that matters in the real world.



    Reviews and sales are what matters kid. That 8.0 over at GameDaily.biz and that 6.0 over at Best Buys top 10 list are ratings that counts at the end of the day Games do not sell after the initial release hype unless people are enjoying them. You think SOE or Funcom or Mythic are making games cause they think it is fine art then you need to turn off the computer, take off your tin foil beanie and walk outside and get some fresh air. Millions and millions are made each month, this is a business.

    I miss DAoC

  • DonnieBrascoDonnieBrasco Member Posts: 1,757
    Originally posted by Laiina

    Originally posted by Jackdog

    My friends? WTF are you talking about?



    .... while EQII is not a bad game, it is no where near LoTRO and Turbine has SOE beat hands down as far as customer service.



    Odd.

    It took me 6 years to get bored with EQ1.

    It took me 3 years to get bored with EQ2

    It took me 2 months to give up on Vanguard, even though it was probably the worst release of a game in 8 years.

    It took me 3 DAYS to get bored with LOTRO, even though I prolonged the agony for 3 weeks before I officially cancelled.

    Now you can draw your own conclusions from that, but in my opinion the churn rate in LOTRO will be much much higher than EQ, EQ2, or WOW.

    Conclusion: you are burnt out.

    It sucks, I now - do what I did: take a break, have a real life for a couple of months (its summer hey!), and in a few months you will enjoy mmo's again - not necessarily LOTRO, but any game - at least you'll have a much better time then desperately bashing lotro, for instance

    DB

    Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.

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