Who still has fear of Mythic's ideas?

Epeen · June 2007

Anyone afraid of what mythic might do to the game?

All you DAOC players know exactly what I am talking about. Mythic was unable to truley balance the classes in DAOC since the release 5 years ago. Mythic also released the expansion that destroyed daoc... who else has some concerns on trusting mythic and what they might do to WAR?

BrianAddison · June 2007

Destroyed DAoC? Is it not true that DAoC is still a game that is doing very well? Also, too much balance can destroy games, ever played Star Wars Galaxies?

DarkJace · June 2007

Originally posted by BrianAddison

Destroyed DAoC? Is it not true that DAoC is still a game that is doing very well? Also, too much balance can destroy games, ever played Star Wars Galaxies?

Pretty much sums up my reply.

I have more faith in Mythic than I do in any other MMO company.

Sturmrabe · June 2007

Originally posted by BrianAddison

Destroyed DAoC? Is it not true that DAoC is still a game that is doing very well? Also, too much balance can destroy games, ever played Star Wars Galaxies?

No its not true actually, if you had any idea about DAOCs numbers after their new system compared to the old you wouldn't say that... if DAOC was doing well Mythic would have been financially solvent on its own and could have resisted being bought out.

Here is my take, from another thread:

You respect Mythic? Mythic is gone, EA is not respectable at all... though I don't doubt this will be a "servicable" game, don't expect innovation

Yes Mythic works very differently, but having constant benchmarks and a suit always looking over your shoulder... the game WILL be done, and it WILL play, but don't expect anything but tried [tired] and true MMO formulas

Epeen · June 2007

Originally posted by BrianAddison

Destroyed DAoC? Is it not true that DAoC is still a game that is doing very well? Also, too much balance can destroy games, ever played Star Wars Galaxies?

You must have not played when ToA launched... that exp ruined a wonderful game. Even when the classic servers came, it was too late.

Grimm666 · June 2007

Honestly? There's alot of things that could easily go wrong:

- Class Balance

- Realm Balance

- Talent Balance

- Dog of War AI

- Exploits, Glitches and game-stopping bugs

- Horrible server maintenance

- Boring end-game

- Just an unfun game

Right now, the most hands-on knowledge any of us have is the few minutes we may have played at a Gamesday somewhere. That's not an accurate indication of the game's quality in the long-run. I thought Dark and Light was fun for the first 10 minutes that I played it. All we can do is trust Mythic to create a quality game and try to stay calm, rational and objective as the game approaches launch. Buying into marketing-controlled hype is doing a disservice to yourself as a customer. Of course, this pretty much holds for any MMO.

I think I went off on a tangent there. What was the question?

BrianAddison · June 2007

To reply about Mythic being bought out. Is it not reasonable to think they did it because they figured it was a good business move? EA, even if DAoC was a massive sucess to this day, has more money than Mythic. EA has not touched WAR and has only funded it past what Mythic, as an independant could do. I also believe that no matter what, games will decline after a period of time. Graphics become better, new systems for the game mechanics come out, people just want to try something new, etc. Overall, I think DAoC was a great success. This is just my opinion and just thought I'd share it, I could be wrong and frequently am. Cheers.

brostyn · June 2007

Yes, I am concerned. After all the flops that have come out one would be a fool to not be a bit afraid. The even scarier thing is that every expansion past SI has stunk big time. Each expansion brought an even more imbalanced situation to RvR. Gear, OP classes, area that detracted from the spirit of the game are all serious issues with the expansions. How can one look at that objectively, and think that everything will be OK?

Also, Mythic did destroy DAoC to me. I don't play, because the classes will never be balanced and the population is too low to be fun anymore.

Having said that I will admit that I hope this is the game we are all wishing it will be. However, I've been hoping for something ever since AC2 was announced, and nothing has been able to deliver the fun of original EQ or DAoC.

tiki · June 2007

well seeing as how DAOC was mythics 1st MMO they were able to learn what people like and what people dont like, what does good in rvr and what doesnt. So yes i have full faith in mythic to make the best possible game they can and not screw it up with 1 expantion.

And also DAOC is still doing decent number wise, look at EQ's numbers everyone thinks that is still a success but the numbers are down even more then DAOC's numbers. On july of 05 EQ had 450,000 subscribers, and then by july of 06 they were way down to 200,000. I cant say this with any facts or evidence but im pretty sure EQ's numbers have also droped quite a bit since then. Whereas with DAOC it had around 175,000 subscribers on july of 05 and by july of 06 it was only down to 125,000.

So for percent of the old population DAOC is still doing better then most old games that are thought of as a success still.

Source: http://www.mmogchart.com/

Ravkeen · June 2007

DAOC was a very sucessful game even after TOA yeah the game pop. dropped that was only because of the new game that came out ( WOW) thats why a lot of the DAOC pop. left but the game is still going and is still alot of fun. Mythic made TOA alot easier and the PVP is still the best out today. So I trust Mythic to make another sucessful and I think it might go longer than DAOC just will have to wait and see.

evil13 · June 2007

ToA did quite a bit to kill daoc. But it wasn't the idea behind toa, it was the fact it was buged, and very badly tested (none of the testers did anythign past ml2 and devs spawned those encounters in the first place) Also, at the time of toa's release, people were whining that rvr is getting stale and there is no pve to do at all (kind of true, daoc pre toa had what, darkness falls, dragon and si epic dungeon for pve content?)

So, mythic added toa. Problem was, it was buged, very badly tested, with ither imbalanced or gimped artifatcs/abilities, badly thought out (or tested) honestly, who the hell wants to kill an equivalent for lvl 1-50 worth of crocodiles, sharcks, snakes or some other stupid crap like that to lvl a must have uber artifact to lvl 10? Also, a huge problem was that there was no alternative to obtaining ml's/arties.

If you look at what mythic has done, they have changed just about everything about toa, from balance and bug fixes, to making encounters a bit easier (since less people play) and last but not least, making arties/mls obtainable with bounty points (ie, obtainable through rvr) Also, both darkness rising and lotm (2 expansions after toa) have their champion levels and champion weapons obtainable by rvr or even solo pve, so mythic learned a lot from toa.

Oh, and mythic has always (and will likely continue in war) released a few extreamly overpowered classes in expansions (ones having new classes at least) untill a few months after release, once enaugh boxes are sold, they nerf those classes to about 100-110% of a balanced class =p It's unfortunate but that's how it is, hopefuly they will realize that expansion will sell anyway and will stop that practice, but doubtful.

PS: a lot of people claim that toa+nf killed daoc, but it's debatable, while toa was bad and nf could be better, thinking about hibs with animists and los ignoring bainshees camping mile gates with old gates (ones that didn't stop pbaoe/caoe) makes me think old emain would be even less fun than nf.

kraiden · June 2007

I just wrote a 2000 word post in response to the OP and my thoughts on daoc. I hit delete by accident and this is me posting again. I am dejected and dont have enough passion to write another response. So in short I will just say

I disagree.

I have no fear, and trust the devs at mythic as much as I trust Mrs Kraiden to make me crazy.

Sturmrabe · June 2007

To Tiki: I'm not saying DAOC isn't doing reletively well for as old as a game as it is, but just that its glory days are long past, and only by creating legacy servers with older rulesets were they able to retain customers after a crazy change

Originally posted by BrianAddison

To reply about Mythic being bought out. Is it not reasonable to think they did it because they figured it was a good business move? EA, even if DAoC was a massive sucess to this day, has more money than Mythic. EA has not touched WAR and has only funded it past what Mythic, as an independant could do. I also believe that no matter what, games will decline after a period of time. Graphics become better, new systems for the game mechanics come out, people just want to try something new, etc. Overall, I think DAoC was a great success. This is just my opinion and just thought I'd share it, I could be wrong and frequently am. Cheers.

Was DAOC a sucess? yes it was, never said it wasn't, but that one success and nothing more was the bain and blessing that made them a tasty target for EA...

EA's buying of Mythic was not as simple as either it floundering financially or that it was a prize gem for EA to acquire, but a combination of the two...

It DID have a success so it has proven to be able to make a successfull MMO, and has the experience and knowhow to likely do it again, but it HAS been floundering since the ex-pac debacle that lost a lot of old customers to them... making it affordable risk venture for EA to leverage into the MMO market...

But that is also the doom of WAR as far as getting anything new and exciting from it (ie: different than WoW) because EA wants a money maker for more reasons than just money... whatever VP is in charge of Mythic has a lot of money in bonuses and future development venture capital on the line... so rather than doing ANYTHING new and different, they are going to go with what works and HAS WORKED in other games...

Now some will say that that is good as WAR will be solid and stable... but without the Asian audience and the brand-recognition that Battlenet and Diablo/Warcraft RTS gave Blizzard its "fluke" or "perfect storm" success...

Sure, WAR can get a million WoW rejects easily as they are tired of WoW, but after a while when they realize they have traded one raidgrind for another, and one series of pointless PvP goals that have no lasting effect for another... where will that leave WAR?

Thefonz · June 2007

I'm going to chuckle once I hear these same talking head threads come out when the WH 40k mmo by THQ is finally noticed.

tapeworm00 · June 2007

People whine about this so much that they'll probably give it a lot of attention.

TheRPGPope · June 2007

You do realise that the purchase of Mythic was on Mythic's terms, and now is EA's MMO Headquarters right. Mythic lost nothing by the purchase but the main title logo when the games start. They didn't even lose managment like a normal purchase. EA just purchased the place, they have no intentions to actually touch it. (plus it be in breach of their contract of purchase) So Mythic will still be Mythic bad CSR's and all! Just hope Name Nazi's don't appear in this game! lol

Sickpup · June 2007

Thats what the Mythic said when they sold out.Mythic workers are EA employees now.The founder got a title but not full control.Don't forget EA is a publicly traded company and has to by due diligence follow a prescribe protocol for a take over process.When I look on websites and see DAoC they list it as an EA game.The Mythic part might be in the fine print of the description.Being EA aint that bad,I just ordered battlefield 2.

Jackdog · June 2007

Mythic will do ok, if it was SOE I would not bother ever reading a paragraph about the game.

Kayless · June 2007

In the back of mind yes, I know what a pigs ear they made of class balancing in DAoC expansions. Most of it boiled down to the caster moaning and whining and every other class getting nerfed to oblivion.

However, I am looking forward to WAR and hope they'd at least learnt some lessons from the past...

Jetrpg · June 2007

Originally posted by Sturmrabe

Originally posted by BrianAddison

Destroyed DAoC? Is it not true that DAoC is still a game that is doing very well? Also, too much balance can destroy games, ever played Star Wars Galaxies?

No its not true actually, if you had any idea about DAOCs numbers after their new system compared to the old you wouldn't say that... if DAOC was doing well Mythic would have been financially solvent on its own and could have resisted being bought out.

Here is my take, from another thread:

You respect Mythic? Mythic is gone, EA is not respectable at all... though I don't doubt this will be a "servicable" game, don't expect innovation

Yes Mythic works very differently, but having constant benchmarks and a suit always looking over your shoulder... the game WILL be done, and it WILL play, but don't expect anything but tried [tired] and true MMO formulas

This a joke ?

I have to type the same thign everytime i see a person post about things they don't understand.

1) You can "buyout" a co. if they are publicly traded. I do not think mythic was ... but even if they were doing good , does not prevent this all that does is holding on to 51% of the shares.

2) Game Co.s rarely get "bought out", what they do do however is Sell Out , Mythic was sold not bought see there are lots of buys for companies but you have to be willing to sell and you have to have promiss that as a Big company buying the small one will make you money.

What happend here EA offerded the owners of mythic a sh*t ton and they were like thast enough to make the last 10 years of work on mythic worth it.

"You must have not played when ToA launched... that exp ruined a wonderful game. Even when the classic servers came, it was too late."

- i never understood the toa x-pack hate... its basicly what wow has end game ... and people love that.- stil i think it hurt daoc a bit... but peopel left more naturally then not ...

As for the claim of unbalance, show me an mmo with more than 10 classes that is more balanced. See people don't understand daoc balance ... its sad for them. But its all based on class equivalents x-realm and total realm balance.. Which is very important becuase the different realms have difference classes. I have played daoc off and on forever never have classes been so unbalanced so i was liek wow well hib or alb or mid is just not worth playing... Because with daoc at the end of the day in a group of 4+ people all sides are pretty much equal, and player skill is greater than any minor strength or weakness than minor class or equipment difference.

EAs real contribution will be ad money becuase thast going to 1/2 the cost of the game if they do it right.

The Op classes with x-packs is very true.

Xziled · June 2007

Unbalanced or not, DAOC had about the best PvP of any game, old or new. Did they have an issue with a couple classes being over powered?.. Absolutely. Was it game breaking ? Not a chance.

I think Mythic has learned from their mistakes, if you can call them mistakes.. I think if they would have tried anymore balancing of DAOC, it would have done more damage than good.

With WaR, they can start the balance from Beta and have it within limits by release. Just like in Life, there is no such thing as true balance. If there were, then Id be living next door to Bill Gates and driving an Aston Martin DB8.

So in conclusion, give them the benefit of the doubt.

Karma

Liljna · June 2007

Originally posted by tiki

And also DAOC is still doing decent number wise, look at EQ's numbers everyone thinks that is still a success but the numbers are down even more then DAOC's numbers. On july of 05 EQ had 450,000 subscribers, and then by july of 06 they were way down to 200,000. I cant say this with any facts or evidence but im pretty sure EQ's numbers have also droped quite a bit since then. Whereas with DAOC it had around 175,000 subscribers on july of 05 and by july of 06 it was only down to 125,000.

So for percent of the old population DAOC is still doing better then most old games that are thought of as a success still.

Source: http://www.mmogchart.com/

Just for information, the numbers on mmogchart hasn't been updated in 1 year, so take them with a grain of salt. 1 yeah in the mmo business is a long time and things can change a lot during one year.

And just for the record, EQs numbers were falling more than DAoC's as you pointed out, but according to the numbers you gave, EQ still had more subscribers than DAoC (200k for EQ and 125k for DAoC). I guess the success criteria depends on the eye of the beholder

Now, both are old games and both have a decent amount of subscribers. Frankly I think both are doing ok if we take their age and the strong competition into account. I don't think either is dead yet, but one day will of course be the last...one day out in the future.

Alienovrlord · June 2007

OP - read the recent Warcry interview:

http://war.warcry.com/news/view/73360-Exclusive-Interview-with-Jeff-Hickman-and-Paul-Barnett-Part-2

The thing that we don't do, or at least we do it very very rarely with Renown, is something that we did do with Camelot, and I think we learned our lesson, is lots of crazy new Abilities and Passives and Actives, that really changed the career balance is a big dramatic way. Will they have an effect on career balance? Absolutely, don't get me wrong, there is a fine line, and we are staying on this side of it, we are trying to make sure we stay on the good side of it.

Mythic is one of those companies that comes out and says they LEARNED from their previous products. I have confidence that it's not just lip-service and that they will make good their promises of evolving the RvR from DAOC.

Celestian · June 2007

Originally posted by Epeen
Originally posted by BrianAddison
Destroyed DAoC? Is it not true that DAoC is still a game that is doing very well? Also, too much balance can destroy games, ever played Star Wars Galaxies?

You must have not played when ToA launched... that exp ruined a wonderful game. Even when the classic servers came, it was too late.

Mark has stated that they have learned from their past mistakes.

If you still played DAoC you'd know that now all those things you had to raid/quest/PVE for in ToA can now be purchased from PVP activities (bounty points for artifacts/etc).

As to balance, that's a never ending cycle in mmos and 99% of the balance complaints are just whiners.

Like any older games the population has gone down.

Kyleran · June 2007

I fear nothing! OK, maybe I do hate spiders, and warm beer, but I'm confident that Mythic has learned from their past mistakes and will incorporate those lessons learned into WAR.

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Who still has fear of Mythic's ideas?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV