Ever since Blizzard added the "report spam" feature the general chat ad spams have decreased. Also less whispers to buy wowgold dot com too. Their current "workaround" is to send you an invite, if you accept they spam the ad in group chat. Easy way around that is if you get an invite and it's from a level 1 toon, decline it.
Nice to see something being done about the sellers now Blizzard needs to grow a pair and start cracking down on the buyers. Some say they don't want to lose a paying customer, but I say they have 8.5 million of em they can afford to lose some.
no skills neaded for farming. Grindcraft goal is wrong from the start.
Every World of Warcraft player needs those coins, and mostly for one reason: to pay for the virtual gear to fight the monsters to earn the points to reach the next level. And there are only two ways players can get as much of this virtual money as the game requires: they can spend hours collecting it or they can pay someone real money to do it for them.
well i'm quite happy that those 'spammers' stay in wow... or atleast i havent seen them anywhere else except few times in L2... mb 1 in a year... sure legalize farming'n'trading... who cares
...and why blame chinese only about selling accounts and gold 'cos then you can explain me why i still find random(western) players selling their account and gold 'cos they quit or 'reroll' character.
What I don't much like about all this is the hidden implication that these people suffer because of the "westerners". I just watched the video included with the article, and I am very sorry to say that I will not condone victimising of either any paid worker or me on the other hand because I chose to spend some hours relaxing infront of an online game.
As for the main thing people don't understand: this is an INDUSTRY. In the west this industry is companies like Blizzard and SOE etc who produce and run pay-to-play MMOs. In the east the industry is companies that produce and run free MMOs and companies of gold farmers and sellers. This isn't about any good people or bad people, and I agree with someone previously who said that it is very extremist to say "I hate gold farmers" and "die farming scum" and so forth. These are not scum, just people doing their job. The chinese/korean/whatever people who do these jobs are consentually doing them, just like other people do other jobs. The issue here should be whether or not it is legal to make people GENERALLLY speaking work under such conditions, and that isn't limited to gold farmers but includes the entire cheap industry situation in the east. If we're to focus on correcting an evil, this is what we need to focus on.
As for the situation for us westerners who have the luxury of playing onling games: if you don't like gold farming, don't buy from the gold sellers, report them at any chance you get, and find the best way you can to make those farming bots many use useless. Other than that, it is up to the game companies to do something about bots and farmers. I've said this many times before and I will say it again. Take a look at Rappelz's solution to bot farming, and you will see the beginning of an ingame solution.
However, and I repeat myself, I refuse to be caught in the victimising campaign of poor-chinese-gold-farmer vs evil-western-mmo-gold-buyer.
While being a vast online mmorpger since like 91-92 when i discovered my first online game text game mite i add yeah some people will say no thats not a mmorpg well yeah back in those days they were mmorpgs no graphics buit was a mmorpg of the DAYS anyways i find the gold sellin gold botting it ruins the genra of game of course many will disagree but only cause they never really experienced the genra till Wow came out.While it does destroy the game play too many it dont really destroy me i say if they wanna gold farm and sell it by all means do so But when they start SPAMMING the damn games every 5 minutes that im online eq2 and swg are the big issues now,WoW has cooled down a bit.The spammin is bs and they need to freakin stop just stop out of courtsy.
Flame it as you wish but if you do your not a true gamer ya a moron who waste money and cheats other people who earn their way to the top,flame the grammer too i dont give a damn its a online forum and i dont care if i miss spelled or even missed a capital and comma.
I read that China hoards massive amounts of U.S. currency to flood the market and crash the economy. Not someone's opinion, but a substantiated fact in Newsweek a few years ago. They use this behind the scenes out of the public face in order to blackmail America and their various companies' international investors (could be YOUR country) into providing favorable trade agreements and thus you have cheap labor for major American corporations. This hoarding of U.S. Dollars has been going on for at least 2 decades. The way it will crash the American economy is by suddenly releasing a huge amount of cash, devaluing the American Dollar even further and no one will be able to afford anything. For those of you with little imagination with regards to how an economy works think the Depression. You'll be hungry and worse.
In China, people have a bad situation because of the Chinese draconian approach to economy. No other reason. If the Chinese economical situation changed, it would be better, and more int'l friendly, for everyone. In China, many things are legal which are illegal in most places in the world. That doesn't make it right that gold farming is happening in a country where it is legal. If Blizzard Entertainment were themselves selling small increments of gold, the harm would not be so great. If they sold it for pennies, the Chinese gold farmers would be out of business. If Blizz even did this for perhaps 6 months and then ceased, the results would be brighter for players who aren't too lazy to play the game as the gold farmers would have long since buggered off and would have to start from scratch and rebuild the many farming businesses from fresh (unfarmed) capital. If Blizzard decided to change how currency works, like deciding on an equivalent barter system and axing gold altogether even for a little while -like say for the duration of the life of one patch, it'd solve the problem.
The PvP mount takes 30 marks from 3 battlegrounds to buy. Or you could buy a non-PvP epic mount for around 89g. You still need around 540 gold to train in Riding 150 in order to use it. If they change the gold to battleground marks or an epic quest the problem is solved. There is a solution. Cut out exorbitant amounts of gold required for what should be standard things everyone should get.
There is even a conspiracy theory that Blizzard and SOE secretly benefit from the earnings of gold farming companies. With gaming software developers having so many stockholders out of China, Korea, and other countries, I've heard they buy more stock and get more of what they want from the companies in charge. So if I owned 27% of Blizzard from my Chinese company, then I could easily persuade Blizz to not change the currency or practice any possible solution more than hand-slapping just for show.
I don't know if I believe that, but I do know that inflation results in WoW servers due to people just having lots of purchased gold to buy twink items for their alt or to get their epic mount and the epic mounts that come after that... The game economy feels it because players try to sell epic items for 3500 gold (I've seen it on a young server). The introduction of The Burning Crusade has helped in a lot of ways. The Halaa mounts in Nagrand require types of questing like the PvP epic mount in order to buy them, but they still require Riding 150 so until that changes, Blizz will have economic issues as players resort to buying gold from farmers for real money just to pay for the ridiculous training cost.
The reason they have expensive mounts and training to use them is simple, TIME WASTERS. Same as the looooong flights on the hippogryphs/griffins. Same as the wait times for the boats. Same as the hearthstone recharging once an hour. Many quests are "Kill 30 of this and 30 of that". Nesingwary's Expeditions in Nagrand and Stranglethorn Vale anyone? Heck, Ashenvale quests aren't much different. The same quests exist in Silithus and Un'Goro Crater but for different beasts. It's all designed to keep you on the game and playing for hours, elongating your subscription time on inane quests. You're willing to do things that do nothing for your intelligence or hand-eye coordination into mind-numbing oblivion to get loot to do more mind-numbing quests -just for bragging rights to your friends and/or guildies. SOME people do it to be readily equipped for instances. Instances are fun (sometimes) but WAY too long. Why? Same reason again: TIME WASTERS. If they cut out quite so much time wasting you'd get a more Outland experience everywhere. The game doesn't require 70 levels, but the more levels they stack on, the longer you subscribe.
My point is, people spend a lot of (wasted) time trying to get through the rubbish to enjoy a little of what is actually a fun game. That's why people WANT to buy gold. I won't because I don't endorse sweat shops in Asia. It's wrong. I don't care that they could be fixing cars in a rural area instead. Go do that, but don't make things more expensive for all gamers in the West and the East together in game and don't encourage a market of grossly-underpaid gaming zombies in Asia. That hurts the progress of economy and industry in a very poor region. Besides, we have enough underpaid gaming zombies in the West to fill Canada.
The journalist for the NY Times is just an example of the quality I perceive from that agenda-driven paper. I never took it serious after a couple of reads, don't buy into their advertisement image. NY Times is ridiculous.
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
While being a vast online mmorpger since like 91-92 when i discovered my first online game text game mite i add yeah some people will say no thats not a mmorpg well yeah back in those days they were mmorpgs no graphics buit was a mmorpg of the DAYS
HAHAHA This girl/guy says s/he's played MMORPG's in 1991 and 1992! OMG! As if! Like D&D gamers will ALWAYS tell you they've been doing it for 10+ years, it's just bollocks.
MUD's,/MOO's/MUSH's are NOT MMORPG's. And in case you're confused further, Beyond Zork (albeit not online) wasn't an MMO either. *giggle*
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
While being a vast online mmorpger since like 91-92 when i discovered my first online game text game mite i add yeah some people will say no thats not a mmorpg well yeah back in those days they were mmorpgs no graphics buit was a mmorpg of the DAYS
HAHAHA This girl/guy says s/he's played MMORPG's in 1991 and 1992! OMG! As if! Like D&D gamers will ALWAYS tell you they've been doing it for 10+ years, it's just bollocks.
MUD's,/MOO's/MUSH's are NOT MMORPG's. And in case you're confused further, Beyond Zork (albeit not online) wasn't an MMO either. *giggle*
Wow here is a perfect example of complete gaming ignorance. Gemstone2 and 3 dragonrealms among others hosted thousands of players. Just because it didnt have pretty pictures and you had to know how to read to play doesn't mean they were not mmo's. You don't know what your talking about so go back to sleep.
These games that gave rise to the current graphical mmo's had a mature fun game audience interested in the RPG part of mmoRPGs. Today most players think roleplaying in a roleplaying game is stupid and only care about the fastest reward in the shortest time which has sadly given rise to the goldfarmers. I mean if the game is SO hard that you need to buy others accounts and money play a game thats a little easier, neopets:darkest faerie or spyro.
long, but interesting article. Unlike the many articles that have come before it dealing with 'farming' and the like, this one has put a human face to farming. I've been, for the most part, indifferent about the entire thing, but now i see that to most of us they're just games, while to others, its a way of life. Not that i think its completely alright, but it just makes you think differently.
I would actually like to see a documentary on this.
Yeah I would like to see a documentary on it too, it would hopefully make this problem much more real to people
If they want to farm gold without using exploits that ruin the economy then fine, its the hack and spam gold farming crap I hate. The fraud and rip off that you _know_ is going to happen during a transaction.
If they're going to do this it aught to be exploit free, sanctioned and verified via a game providers method (to prevent theft and fraud), and not spammed in the game every few minutes. Make the services for this junk external to the game. Even better would to be have a server seperate for those that want to play that way. Kind of like a PVP/PVE seperation, throw in a gold farming server where people who want to fast track their toons and play with other fast trackers so they can all be miserable together. If someone wants to play the game that way let them get their gold and buy equipment they can't use. Let their grinding services play their game until they lose interest and quit because you know they haven't played the game really, and they missed out on stories and content. You can identify them by being level 50 and not knowing simple chat commands, or where the mailbox is.
for those who are interested. This article (not including the pictures and author's name) has 5118 words and repeats itself about 100 times...
Reason's why gold sellers are bad.
- they spam you (whether it be them or bots) and just annoy the crap out of you.
- People with rl money to burn are unfarily advantaged.
- people who buy gold generally don't stick with games as long. while this isn't a huge issue, for struggling MMO's it means they lose their player base a little quicker.
- My number one reason is it just completely screws with the economy. Gold buyers are for some reason willing to pay more for everything, in turn driving the price of everything up. Those who legitimately work for their gold have to work even harder to be able to afford anything and just get p****d off.
Reason's for:
- Thousands of jobs for poverty stricken people..."and now with my weekly earning's i'll go buy me a lollipop".
I am constantly disheartened by the responses to cheating in whatever form, in online gaming.
Altering a client program to provide advantage in a shooter, (see-thru walls, anyone?), buying pre-played accounts, or paying cash for in-game currency, it's all the same to me. Imagine say a high school track meet... what would be the response if one kid hired a professional to run for him? Or another kid used a golf cart during the "boring" part of the cross-country?
Why do people work so hard to get virtual items in a game? Is it because an image glowing-purple armor is so rewarding in and of itself that youd spend hundreds of hours earning it? Or because having it sets you apart, visibly demonstrates your achievements in the game?
Gold sales takes any cachet from in-game achievements, and tarnishes it through and through. People look at folks who've bought flying mounts in WoW these days, and their first question is "Where'd you buy the gold?"
I'm sorry... I'm sure there are people with deserving need out there ruining games for money, there are probably the same sorts trying to run Nigerian money scams and robbing convenience stores, too. I suppose since folks believe it's the game designers responsibility to prevent them, it must be my responsibility to stop the scammers, and 7-11's responsibility to hire squads of armed guards. Can't blame the people doing it apparently...
This is the economic laws of comparitive advantage. It is clearly a better use of their time to farm gold, while it is a better use of my time to work at my job and buy the gold from them. Works out great and I'm glad gold farmers exist to make my gametime more enjoyable.
Wow...
1. Heartless much? I agree that it's the reality of the situation and that under current circumstances they probably can't do much better. However, unlike you I don't see this as somehow a good thing. Why can't we all have at least a modicum of success without working ourselves to death.
2. As much as you may like the way that gold farming enhances your experience as a player of MMOs, it is clearly illegal and unfair to players who take the time to play the game by the rules AND not violate the law. Don't think it's violating the law? Well, technically they are selling and you are buying something which does not belong to either party -- it belongs to the company which is putting out the game. You are simply licensing time playing their game and on their servers. Furthermore, in the TOS of these games, it specifically prohibits this type of activity.
3. This screws up the in-game economy for players who take the time to honestly earn their money. Congratulations on ruining it for them in the interests of your own greed.
I knew a gold farmer pretty well in WoW after grouping with him for a quest and then regularly until I stop playing it.
He said he makes more doing that than working at a factory turning out the massive bunch of cheap crap that we westerners buy. HE said the gold job is much better than the factory job and he can afford more things for he and his mom.
I would rather he farm gold than make less money and be in a dangerous work environment.
I understand both sides however, although having never bought gold(just because you can get anything with a bit of time), I know people who have and would never turn them in because it's usually under certain circumstances, for instance one left for 4 months do to illness another was deployed to Iraq for 8 months, etc.
On another note, so many of the "OH MY GOD THEY ARE WORKING FOR ALMOST NOTHING!" naysayers don't seem to realize that $1 in china is worth much more than it is here, regular FAMILIES can get by on $300-400 a month there easy, if you make under $1200 a month for two people in the U.S. you are pretty much hand to mouth.
You see it all the time, so many of the so called "slave labor victims" say to leave them alone, they make a living versus starving because of the lack of social services in those countries.
Boohooing over gold farmers because of their "cheap wages" is hypocritical if you buy any item made in China or damn near any other Asian country.
this is the cold, dark staggering reality of MMO's. frankly it digusts me.
Gold sellers catering to lazy ingrates with money with "instant-gratifcation gimme gimme gimme attitudes". they want all the glory without any of the work. Supply and demand i guess goes hand in hand in any activity if it involves money. I am personally repulsed by this RMT crap. is there anything i can do about it? no unfortunately i cant.
I personally think these people should get jobs, an education would be too much to ask for, be a chef, be a security manager, take some of those computer skills and go to devry lol, or ITT lol. go to school learn some vocational independent living skills. heck do something besides ruining my immersion by spamming me, sending me emails and otehrwise ruining the economy and balance in the game. I personally could care less if they cant do anything else, too bad, life sucks deal with it. you cant adapt you get left behind. oh well, sucks being you.
I read a similar articles a while ago. and Im not surprised by this at all. It sucks truly does. but for me, I pay good money to enjoy myself, only to have some tool, fork over $100 for 2,000 in gold for WoW to some gold farming service.(nationality will remain nameless but we can guess) and get all his epic gear in one shot. absiolutely tragic.
Am i cold? am I adrupt maybe, but Im a realist, But i am also a realist that also understand the unfortunate result of the "financially endowed gimme gimme crowd i want all the glory none of the work" people. they piss me off just as much as these gold farmers. and these people clammering way on their keyboard for 24 hours a day leeching gold. I really wish theyd get shut down. all of them. get a 9 to 5 job like everyone else bucko.
I have a job, I have responsibilties, but I find time to level, I find time to have raids, an I find time to enjoy myself with my guild and friends.. Anyone who doesnt, well, ill keep my thoughts on you individuals to an absolute minimum.
sorry if i come across cold, but this gold farming issue really burns me. I hope i never meet a gold farmer in RL(probably wont given 99% of them are 9,000 miles away from me) or a person who bought gold would of a nice exchange of words to say the least probably unknowningly came across one during my romps through gamestop, and bestbuy..
sigh...moving on i vented and feel a bit better.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
If anyone was actually serious about eliminating gold farming it would have to be build into the design of the game. There is no other way. Something along the lines of only being able to gain loot from doing the quests and killing the mobs yourself. Of couse this would create other design issues such as what to do about the crafting system, but if someone wanted to sit down and work it out I'm sure they could come up with a viable solution.
Its simply a fact of current MMO design that they are built to be repetative grind fests. This keeps you playing for as long as possible. Me, I'm over it for the time being. I just tried to get back into EQ2 and quit again within 2 days when I saw how inflated the market prices have become in that game. I really couldn't be bothered investing the time or (real) money necessary to get the good gears in that game.
All that is certain is that you can bitch all day about it but one universal truth will remain clear. If there is a demand, someone will find a way to supply that demand.
If you are against gold farming because it is "slave labour" you may as well cast off most of your clothes, stop using your computer (mostly Taiwanese and Chinese "slave" labour there), throw out all your kitchen appliances, burn your bedding, smash all your lightblubs .... the list could go on and on.
Western corporations demand cheap labour costs in order to maintain a higher profit margin on their consumer goods, "poor" countries like China, India, Malaysia, former communist states in eastern europe can supply. Corporations are supplying the demands of consumers, who want to be supplied with (largely unnecessary) consumer goods, the demand for which stems from cunning advertising campaigns convincing us that "wants" are actually "needs".
The problem is systemic in a consumer society ... so what are ya going to do about it?
haha i feel ya, eq2 has some insane prices lol.but not as much as lineage 2 practical joke expensive. u sit there and wonder, are these people actually serious. ive seen prices rise on a constant steady grade. and frankly its sad. i left eq2 myself. though i may go back if the mood suits me.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Interesting article and interesting to see everyones opinion. But I'm not goingh to pay someone to play a game, that I paid for , to play it for me!!! If I want that fancy weapon or Awesome armour than I need to work at it to get it . Or earn the money in game to buy from in game character. Buying gold is like watching someone drive your expensive hot rod and making out with your Hot sexy girlfriend! Some things I'd rather do my self!!!
Great article. I don't get why players have such an aversion to people just trying to make a living in a game? The people would be sewing knock off levis or fake prada handbags. I am glad they get paid (barely) for something rather cool!
They get paid the going rate any more and the consequences could be appauling. As for rather cool i guess you haven't got a clue.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I knew a gold farmer pretty well in WoW after grouping with him for a quest and then regularly until I stop playing it. He said he makes more doing that than working at a factory turning out the massive bunch of cheap crap that we westerners buy. HE said the gold job is much better than the factory job and he can afford more things for he and his mom. I would rather he farm gold than make less money and be in a dangerous work environment. I understand both sides however, although having never bought gold(just because you can get anything with a bit of time), I know people who have and would never turn them in because it's usually under certain circumstances, for instance one left for 4 months do to illness another was deployed to Iraq for 8 months, etc. On another note, so many of the "OH MY GOD THEY ARE WORKING FOR ALMOST NOTHING!" naysayers don't seem to realize that $1 in china is worth much more than it is here, regular FAMILIES can get by on $300-400 a month there easy, if you make under $1200 a month for two people in the U.S. you are pretty much hand to mouth. You see it all the time, so many of the so called "slave labor victims" say to leave them alone, they make a living versus starving because of the lack of social services in those countries. Boohooing over gold farmers because of their "cheap wages" is hypocritical if you buy any item made in China or damn near any other Asian country.
Of Course! Socialism only works if you keep the people poor, curtail free speech (Tian An Min Square anyone?), control their education, and are willing to kill enough of them. I have a couple of Chineese friends who would disagree with you.
However I do agree on the "Don't buy Chineese" aspect. I do my best never to buy anything from that country because of this kind of production process. Maybe if those people do enough starving they might be willing to make life better for themselves. Maybe if they hold a rock concert "BooHooing" about how Americans help keep them poor it might solve all these problems...
If you buy gold, you support slave labor. Tired after working all day for the man? Well you can relax out on your patio while your slaves work the cotton farm. I mean, heck you work so hard during the day, and it's your money to spend, right? Why should you farm the cotton to make your own clothes? Honestly, at least this article brings up both sides of the issue (though briefly). But while it was so busy trying to show "the real side" to gold farming, they barely touch upon the fact that these adults are breaking contracts, destroying entire economies, and forcing real players who don't cop out to grind even more.
All the WOW geeks are right about the night elf. It is also a dubious article because at the end there is an apology that there is no university of Indiana and thus the reference to scholarly research is null and void.
HOWEVER, the world we live in is now a place where "I shop there for I am". What you buy is directly an expression of what kind of person you are-
To buy gold farmed by some one else is breaking the terms and conditions of the game you are playing.
you are condoning unethical sources of income.
You are ruining the game for others.
You are distablizing in-game economies.
you have made a moral choice to oppress another human being and all future people you interact with in and out of the game.
You are a cheat.
If you can live with, that fine by me, but I know I could not.
If anyone was actually serious about eliminating gold farming it would have to be build into the design of the game. There is no other way. Something along the lines of only being able to gain loot from doing the quests and killing the mobs yourself. Of couse this would create other design issues such as what to do about the crafting system, but if someone wanted to sit down and work it out I'm sure they could come up with a viable solution. Its simply a fact of current MMO design that they are built to be repetative grind fests. This keeps you playing for as long as possible. Me, I'm over it for the time being. I just tried to get back into EQ2 and quit again within 2 days when I saw how inflated the market prices have become in that game. I really couldn't be bothered investing the time or (real) money necessary to get the good gears in that game. All that is certain is that you can bitch all day about it but one universal truth will remain clear. If there is a demand, someone will find a way to supply that demand. If you are against gold farming because it is "slave labour" you may as well cast off most of your clothes, stop using your computer (mostly Taiwanese and Chinese "slave" labour there), throw out all your kitchen appliances, burn your bedding, smash all your lightblubs .... the list could go on and on. Western corporations demand cheap labour costs in order to maintain a higher profit margin on their consumer goods, "poor" countries like China, India, Malaysia, former communist states in eastern europe can supply. Corporations are supplying the demands of consumers, who want to be supplied with (largely unnecessary) consumer goods, the demand for which stems from cunning advertising campaigns convincing us that "wants" are actually "needs". The problem is systemic in a consumer society ... so what are ya going to do about it?
I propose ethical shopping as best you can. Yes, we live in a mainly capitalist world but I would suggest every individual should try to be part of the solution and not part of the problem, as best you can. There for it is down to each individual to examine their values waying up the pros and cons.
However, buying gold farmed by another breaks the terms and conditions you signed when commencing a game.
EQ2 (and I think EQ1) has this. Sony says the servers are quite popular and that over $1 million (if I'm remembering right) changed hands last year for ingame characters and coin, etc. Evidently it's so popular that there are now 2 servers for EQ2 just for this. *grin* Personally, I'm a cheap SOB and not about to hand out real, hard-earned cash for stuff in a game I'm already paying just to play.
Originally posted by VMaxxx
If they want to farm gold without using exploits that ruin the economy then fine, its the hack and spam gold farming crap I hate. The fraud and rip off that you _know_ is going to happen during a transaction. If they're going to do this it aught to be exploit free, sanctioned and verified via a game providers method (to prevent theft and fraud), and not spammed in the game every few minutes. Make the services for this junk external to the game. Even better would to be have a server seperate for those that want to play that way. Kind of like a PVP/PVE seperation, throw in a gold farming server where people who want to fast track their toons and play with other fast trackers so they can all be miserable together. If someone wants to play the game that way let them get their gold and buy equipment they can't use. Let their grinding services play their game until they lose interest and quit because you know they haven't played the game really, and they missed out on stories and content. You can identify them by being level 50 and not knowing simple chat commands, or where the mailbox is.
An incredible, very massive PvP game where there are no golds, no objects to equip but where only great players can survive. And only objects are easly craftable.
Comments
Ever since Blizzard added the "report spam" feature the general chat ad spams have decreased. Also less whispers to buy wowgold dot com too. Their current "workaround" is to send you an invite, if you accept they spam the ad in group chat. Easy way around that is if you get an invite and it's from a level 1 toon, decline it.
Nice to see something being done about the sellers now Blizzard needs to grow a pair and start cracking down on the buyers. Some say they don't want to lose a paying customer, but I say they have 8.5 million of em they can afford to lose some.
Excellent article.
no skills neaded for farming. Grindcraft goal is wrong from the start.Why this happen ? Because
Massive Multiplayer Online Industry
well i'm quite happy that those 'spammers' stay in wow... or atleast i havent seen them anywhere else except few times in L2... mb 1 in a year... sure legalize farming'n'trading... who cares
...and why blame chinese only about selling accounts and gold 'cos then you can explain me why i still find random(western) players selling their account and gold 'cos they quit or 'reroll' character.
What I don't much like about all this is the hidden implication that these people suffer because of the "westerners". I just watched the video included with the article, and I am very sorry to say that I will not condone victimising of either any paid worker or me on the other hand because I chose to spend some hours relaxing infront of an online game.
As for the main thing people don't understand: this is an INDUSTRY. In the west this industry is companies like Blizzard and SOE etc who produce and run pay-to-play MMOs. In the east the industry is companies that produce and run free MMOs and companies of gold farmers and sellers. This isn't about any good people or bad people, and I agree with someone previously who said that it is very extremist to say "I hate gold farmers" and "die farming scum" and so forth. These are not scum, just people doing their job. The chinese/korean/whatever people who do these jobs are consentually doing them, just like other people do other jobs. The issue here should be whether or not it is legal to make people GENERALLLY speaking work under such conditions, and that isn't limited to gold farmers but includes the entire cheap industry situation in the east. If we're to focus on correcting an evil, this is what we need to focus on.
As for the situation for us westerners who have the luxury of playing onling games: if you don't like gold farming, don't buy from the gold sellers, report them at any chance you get, and find the best way you can to make those farming bots many use useless. Other than that, it is up to the game companies to do something about bots and farmers. I've said this many times before and I will say it again. Take a look at Rappelz's solution to bot farming, and you will see the beginning of an ingame solution.
However, and I repeat myself, I refuse to be caught in the victimising campaign of poor-chinese-gold-farmer vs evil-western-mmo-gold-buyer.
While being a vast online mmorpger since like 91-92 when i discovered my first online game text game mite i add yeah some people will say no thats not a mmorpg well yeah back in those days they were mmorpgs no graphics buit was a mmorpg of the DAYS anyways i find the gold sellin gold botting it ruins the genra of game of course many will disagree but only cause they never really experienced the genra till Wow came out.While it does destroy the game play too many it dont really destroy me i say if they wanna gold farm and sell it by all means do so But when they start SPAMMING the damn games every 5 minutes that im online eq2 and swg are the big issues now,WoW has cooled down a bit.The spammin is bs and they need to freakin stop just stop out of courtsy.
Flame it as you wish but if you do your not a true gamer ya a moron who waste money and cheats other people who earn their way to the top,flame the grammer too i dont give a damn its a online forum and i dont care if i miss spelled or even missed a capital and comma.
I read that China hoards massive amounts of U.S. currency to flood the market and crash the economy. Not someone's opinion, but a substantiated fact in Newsweek a few years ago. They use this behind the scenes out of the public face in order to blackmail America and their various companies' international investors (could be YOUR country) into providing favorable trade agreements and thus you have cheap labor for major American corporations. This hoarding of U.S. Dollars has been going on for at least 2 decades. The way it will crash the American economy is by suddenly releasing a huge amount of cash, devaluing the American Dollar even further and no one will be able to afford anything. For those of you with little imagination with regards to how an economy works think the Depression. You'll be hungry and worse.
In China, people have a bad situation because of the Chinese draconian approach to economy. No other reason. If the Chinese economical situation changed, it would be better, and more int'l friendly, for everyone. In China, many things are legal which are illegal in most places in the world. That doesn't make it right that gold farming is happening in a country where it is legal. If Blizzard Entertainment were themselves selling small increments of gold, the harm would not be so great. If they sold it for pennies, the Chinese gold farmers would be out of business. If Blizz even did this for perhaps 6 months and then ceased, the results would be brighter for players who aren't too lazy to play the game as the gold farmers would have long since buggered off and would have to start from scratch and rebuild the many farming businesses from fresh (unfarmed) capital. If Blizzard decided to change how currency works, like deciding on an equivalent barter system and axing gold altogether even for a little while -like say for the duration of the life of one patch, it'd solve the problem.
The PvP mount takes 30 marks from 3 battlegrounds to buy. Or you could buy a non-PvP epic mount for around 89g. You still need around 540 gold to train in Riding 150 in order to use it. If they change the gold to battleground marks or an epic quest the problem is solved. There is a solution. Cut out exorbitant amounts of gold required for what should be standard things everyone should get.
There is even a conspiracy theory that Blizzard and SOE secretly benefit from the earnings of gold farming companies. With gaming software developers having so many stockholders out of China, Korea, and other countries, I've heard they buy more stock and get more of what they want from the companies in charge. So if I owned 27% of Blizzard from my Chinese company, then I could easily persuade Blizz to not change the currency or practice any possible solution more than hand-slapping just for show.
I don't know if I believe that, but I do know that inflation results in WoW servers due to people just having lots of purchased gold to buy twink items for their alt or to get their epic mount and the epic mounts that come after that... The game economy feels it because players try to sell epic items for 3500 gold (I've seen it on a young server). The introduction of The Burning Crusade has helped in a lot of ways. The Halaa mounts in Nagrand require types of questing like the PvP epic mount in order to buy them, but they still require Riding 150 so until that changes, Blizz will have economic issues as players resort to buying gold from farmers for real money just to pay for the ridiculous training cost.
The reason they have expensive mounts and training to use them is simple, TIME WASTERS. Same as the looooong flights on the hippogryphs/griffins. Same as the wait times for the boats. Same as the hearthstone recharging once an hour. Many quests are "Kill 30 of this and 30 of that". Nesingwary's Expeditions in Nagrand and Stranglethorn Vale anyone? Heck, Ashenvale quests aren't much different. The same quests exist in Silithus and Un'Goro Crater but for different beasts. It's all designed to keep you on the game and playing for hours, elongating your subscription time on inane quests. You're willing to do things that do nothing for your intelligence or hand-eye coordination into mind-numbing oblivion to get loot to do more mind-numbing quests -just for bragging rights to your friends and/or guildies. SOME people do it to be readily equipped for instances. Instances are fun (sometimes) but WAY too long. Why? Same reason again: TIME WASTERS. If they cut out quite so much time wasting you'd get a more Outland experience everywhere. The game doesn't require 70 levels, but the more levels they stack on, the longer you subscribe.
My point is, people spend a lot of (wasted) time trying to get through the rubbish to enjoy a little of what is actually a fun game. That's why people WANT to buy gold. I won't because I don't endorse sweat shops in Asia. It's wrong. I don't care that they could be fixing cars in a rural area instead. Go do that, but don't make things more expensive for all gamers in the West and the East together in game and don't encourage a market of grossly-underpaid gaming zombies in Asia. That hurts the progress of economy and industry in a very poor region. Besides, we have enough underpaid gaming zombies in the West to fill Canada.
The journalist for the NY Times is just an example of the quality I perceive from that agenda-driven paper. I never took it serious after a couple of reads, don't buy into their advertisement image. NY Times is ridiculous.
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
HAHAHA This girl/guy says s/he's played MMORPG's in 1991 and 1992! OMG! As if! Like D&D gamers will ALWAYS tell you they've been doing it for 10+ years, it's just bollocks.
MUD's,/MOO's/MUSH's are NOT MMORPG's. And in case you're confused further, Beyond Zork (albeit not online) wasn't an MMO either. *giggle*
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
HAHAHA This girl/guy says s/he's played MMORPG's in 1991 and 1992! OMG! As if! Like D&D gamers will ALWAYS tell you they've been doing it for 10+ years, it's just bollocks.
MUD's,/MOO's/MUSH's are NOT MMORPG's. And in case you're confused further, Beyond Zork (albeit not online) wasn't an MMO either. *giggle*
Wow here is a perfect example of complete gaming ignorance. Gemstone2 and 3 dragonrealms among others hosted thousands of players. Just because it didnt have pretty pictures and you had to know how to read to play doesn't mean they were not mmo's. You don't know what your talking about so go back to sleep.These games that gave rise to the current graphical mmo's had a mature fun game audience interested in the RPG part of mmoRPGs. Today most players think roleplaying in a roleplaying game is stupid and only care about the fastest reward in the shortest time which has sadly given rise to the goldfarmers. I mean if the game is SO hard that you need to buy others accounts and money play a game thats a little easier, neopets:darkest faerie or spyro.
Yeah I would like to see a documentary on it too, it would hopefully make this problem much more real to people
If they want to farm gold without using exploits that ruin the economy then fine, its the hack and spam gold farming crap I hate. The fraud and rip off that you _know_ is going to happen during a transaction.
If they're going to do this it aught to be exploit free, sanctioned and verified via a game providers method (to prevent theft and fraud), and not spammed in the game every few minutes. Make the services for this junk external to the game. Even better would to be have a server seperate for those that want to play that way. Kind of like a PVP/PVE seperation, throw in a gold farming server where people who want to fast track their toons and play with other fast trackers so they can all be miserable together. If someone wants to play the game that way let them get their gold and buy equipment they can't use. Let their grinding services play their game until they lose interest and quit because you know they haven't played the game really, and they missed out on stories and content. You can identify them by being level 50 and not knowing simple chat commands, or where the mailbox is.
for those who are interested. This article (not including the pictures and author's name) has 5118 words and repeats itself about 100 times...
Reason's why gold sellers are bad.
- they spam you (whether it be them or bots) and just annoy the crap out of you.
- People with rl money to burn are unfarily advantaged.
- people who buy gold generally don't stick with games as long. while this isn't a huge issue, for struggling MMO's it means they lose their player base a little quicker.
- My number one reason is it just completely screws with the economy. Gold buyers are for some reason willing to pay more for everything, in turn driving the price of everything up. Those who legitimately work for their gold have to work even harder to be able to afford anything and just get p****d off.
Reason's for:
- Thousands of jobs for poverty stricken people..."and now with my weekly earning's i'll go buy me a lollipop".
I am constantly disheartened by the responses to cheating in whatever form, in online gaming.
Altering a client program to provide advantage in a shooter, (see-thru walls, anyone?), buying pre-played accounts, or paying cash for in-game currency, it's all the same to me. Imagine say a high school track meet... what would be the response if one kid hired a professional to run for him? Or another kid used a golf cart during the "boring" part of the cross-country?
Why do people work so hard to get virtual items in a game? Is it because an image glowing-purple armor is so rewarding in and of itself that youd spend hundreds of hours earning it? Or because having it sets you apart, visibly demonstrates your achievements in the game?
Gold sales takes any cachet from in-game achievements, and tarnishes it through and through. People look at folks who've bought flying mounts in WoW these days, and their first question is "Where'd you buy the gold?"
I'm sorry... I'm sure there are people with deserving need out there ruining games for money, there are probably the same sorts trying to run Nigerian money scams and robbing convenience stores, too. I suppose since folks believe it's the game designers responsibility to prevent them, it must be my responsibility to stop the scammers, and 7-11's responsibility to hire squads of armed guards. Can't blame the people doing it apparently...
1. Heartless much? I agree that it's the reality of the situation and that under current circumstances they probably can't do much better. However, unlike you I don't see this as somehow a good thing. Why can't we all have at least a modicum of success without working ourselves to death.
2. As much as you may like the way that gold farming enhances your experience as a player of MMOs, it is clearly illegal and unfair to players who take the time to play the game by the rules AND not violate the law. Don't think it's violating the law? Well, technically they are selling and you are buying something which does not belong to either party -- it belongs to the company which is putting out the game. You are simply licensing time playing their game and on their servers. Furthermore, in the TOS of these games, it specifically prohibits this type of activity.
3. This screws up the in-game economy for players who take the time to honestly earn their money. Congratulations on ruining it for them in the interests of your own greed.
I knew a gold farmer pretty well in WoW after grouping with him for a quest and then regularly until I stop playing it.
He said he makes more doing that than working at a factory turning out the massive bunch of cheap crap that we westerners buy. HE said the gold job is much better than the factory job and he can afford more things for he and his mom.
I would rather he farm gold than make less money and be in a dangerous work environment.
I understand both sides however, although having never bought gold(just because you can get anything with a bit of time), I know people who have and would never turn them in because it's usually under certain circumstances, for instance one left for 4 months do to illness another was deployed to Iraq for 8 months, etc.
On another note, so many of the "OH MY GOD THEY ARE WORKING FOR ALMOST NOTHING!" naysayers don't seem to realize that $1 in china is worth much more than it is here, regular FAMILIES can get by on $300-400 a month there easy, if you make under $1200 a month for two people in the U.S. you are pretty much hand to mouth.
You see it all the time, so many of the so called "slave labor victims" say to leave them alone, they make a living versus starving because of the lack of social services in those countries.
Boohooing over gold farmers because of their "cheap wages" is hypocritical if you buy any item made in China or damn near any other Asian country.
this is the cold, dark staggering reality of MMO's. frankly it digusts me.
Gold sellers catering to lazy ingrates with money with "instant-gratifcation gimme gimme gimme attitudes". they want all the glory without any of the work. Supply and demand i guess goes hand in hand in any activity if it involves money. I am personally repulsed by this RMT crap. is there anything i can do about it? no unfortunately i cant.
I personally think these people should get jobs, an education would be too much to ask for, be a chef, be a security manager, take some of those computer skills and go to devry lol, or ITT lol. go to school learn some vocational independent living skills. heck do something besides ruining my immersion by spamming me, sending me emails and otehrwise ruining the economy and balance in the game. I personally could care less if they cant do anything else, too bad, life sucks deal with it. you cant adapt you get left behind. oh well, sucks being you.
I read a similar articles a while ago. and Im not surprised by this at all. It sucks truly does. but for me, I pay good money to enjoy myself, only to have some tool, fork over $100 for 2,000 in gold for WoW to some gold farming service.(nationality will remain nameless but we can guess) and get all his epic gear in one shot. absiolutely tragic.
Am i cold? am I adrupt maybe, but Im a realist, But i am also a realist that also understand the unfortunate result of the "financially endowed gimme gimme crowd i want all the glory none of the work" people. they piss me off just as much as these gold farmers. and these people clammering way on their keyboard for 24 hours a day leeching gold. I really wish theyd get shut down. all of them. get a 9 to 5 job like everyone else bucko.
I have a job, I have responsibilties, but I find time to level, I find time to have raids, an I find time to enjoy myself with my guild and friends.. Anyone who doesnt, well, ill keep my thoughts on you individuals to an absolute minimum.
sorry if i come across cold, but this gold farming issue really burns me. I hope i never meet a gold farmer in RL(probably wont given 99% of them are 9,000 miles away from me) or a person who bought gold would of a nice exchange of words to say the least probably unknowningly came across one during my romps through gamestop, and bestbuy..
sigh...moving on i vented and feel a bit better.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
If anyone was actually serious about eliminating gold farming it would have to be build into the design of the game. There is no other way. Something along the lines of only being able to gain loot from doing the quests and killing the mobs yourself. Of couse this would create other design issues such as what to do about the crafting system, but if someone wanted to sit down and work it out I'm sure they could come up with a viable solution.
Its simply a fact of current MMO design that they are built to be repetative grind fests. This keeps you playing for as long as possible. Me, I'm over it for the time being. I just tried to get back into EQ2 and quit again within 2 days when I saw how inflated the market prices have become in that game. I really couldn't be bothered investing the time or (real) money necessary to get the good gears in that game.
All that is certain is that you can bitch all day about it but one universal truth will remain clear. If there is a demand, someone will find a way to supply that demand.
If you are against gold farming because it is "slave labour" you may as well cast off most of your clothes, stop using your computer (mostly Taiwanese and Chinese "slave" labour there), throw out all your kitchen appliances, burn your bedding, smash all your lightblubs .... the list could go on and on.
Western corporations demand cheap labour costs in order to maintain a higher profit margin on their consumer goods, "poor" countries like China, India, Malaysia, former communist states in eastern europe can supply. Corporations are supplying the demands of consumers, who want to be supplied with (largely unnecessary) consumer goods, the demand for which stems from cunning advertising campaigns convincing us that "wants" are actually "needs".
The problem is systemic in a consumer society ... so what are ya going to do about it?
haha i feel ya, eq2 has some insane prices lol.but not as much as lineage 2 practical joke expensive. u sit there and wonder, are these people actually serious. ive seen prices rise on a constant steady grade. and frankly its sad. i left eq2 myself. though i may go back if the mood suits me.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Interesting article and interesting to see everyones opinion. But I'm not goingh to pay someone to play a game, that I paid for , to play it for me!!! If I want that fancy weapon or Awesome armour than I need to work at it to get it . Or earn the money in game to buy from in game character. Buying gold is like watching someone drive your expensive hot rod and making out with your Hot sexy girlfriend! Some things I'd rather do my self!!!
They get paid the going rate any more and the consequences could be appauling. As for rather cool i guess you haven't got a clue.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Of Course! Socialism only works if you keep the people poor, curtail free speech (Tian An Min Square anyone?), control their education, and are willing to kill enough of them. I have a couple of Chineese friends who would disagree with you.
However I do agree on the "Don't buy Chineese" aspect. I do my best never to buy anything from that country because of this kind of production process. Maybe if those people do enough starving they might be willing to make life better for themselves. Maybe if they hold a rock concert "BooHooing" about how Americans help keep them poor it might solve all these problems...
HOWEVER, the world we live in is now a place where "I shop there for I am". What you buy is directly an expression of what kind of person you are-
To buy gold farmed by some one else is breaking the terms and conditions of the game you are playing.
you are condoning unethical sources of income.
You are ruining the game for others.
You are distablizing in-game economies.
you have made a moral choice to oppress another human being and all future people you interact with in and out of the game.
You are a cheat.
If you can live with, that fine by me, but I know I could not.
However, buying gold farmed by another breaks the terms and conditions you signed when commencing a game.
EQ2 (and I think EQ1) has this. Sony says the servers are quite popular and that over $1 million (if I'm remembering right) changed hands last year for ingame characters and coin, etc. Evidently it's so popular that there are now 2 servers for EQ2 just for this. *grin* Personally, I'm a cheap SOB and not about to hand out real, hard-earned cash for stuff in a game I'm already paying just to play.
I have a dream.
An incredible, very massive PvP game where there are no golds, no objects to equip but where only great players can survive. And only objects are easly craftable.
Die to the damned ebayers and goldbuyers!
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
(born dwarf)
My blog about (no more)MMORPG Addicted - a bog about videogames, cinema, politics and other things (in Italian)