Every PCgame that has ever come out of China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/w/e, has always been a piece of shit. They all have the same shitty character style and the even worse "grind grind grind grind" gameplay. They should really consider stop making games for PC, and just stay with Nintendo and Playstation. Don't bother mentioning Final Fantasy, because that's the most overhyped piece of crap I've ever encountered.
To SmileyMan:
That's but one man's opinion, which doesn't make it true. Many other gamers I know prefer Asian-made games since it is in a much better quality (if you only play the translated version of the game, you assumption is incorrect. You have not yet even experience the game in its original form, thus your statement is void.) Can't read the language? Don't understand the culture? Don't comment on it.
AS to the OP, I understand you like to use WASD to move in the game, but currently the games made by Asian companies (may it be Korean, Japanese, Chinese), their main focus is the Asian market first, not the Western world. Thus they would program the way it would be accepted into the Asian market. And if it's successful, then they will expanding the game into the Western world.
I agree that they should put the option of the use of WASD into the game, but PnC will still be consider the mainstream in Asia, so don't expect they will change everything. In the future, they probably would start to add the option, but to remove this form of control? not likely.
Every PCgame that has ever come out of China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/w/e, has always been a piece of shit. They all have the same shitty character style and the even worse "grind grind grind grind" gameplay. They should really consider stop making games for PC, and just stay with Nintendo and Playstation. Don't bother mentioning Final Fantasy, because that's the most overhyped piece of crap I've ever encountered.
To SmileyMan:
That's but one man's opinion, which doesn't make it true. Many other gamers I know prefer Asian-made games since it is in a much better quality (if you only play the translated version of the game, you assumption is incorrect. You have not yet even experience the game in its original form, thus your statement is void.) Can't read the language? Don't understand the culture? Don't comment on it.
Aha. So we're not allowed to write our opinion about a game, until we've learned the culture and language that it was made in? I really doubt the "grind grind grind" gameplay can change through a translation.
Every PCgame that has ever come out of China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/w/e, has always been a piece of shit. They all have the same shitty character style and the even worse "grind grind grind grind" gameplay. They should really consider stop making games for PC, and just stay with Nintendo and Playstation. Don't bother mentioning Final Fantasy, because that's the most overhyped piece of crap I've ever encountered.
Then how come so many more people are playing their games in general? Yes, because they have a bigger population. Obviously they like it. Like I said above in my large and forever getting bigger post that it doesn't make financial sense to market to a smaller market.
Maybe... it's... because... they like it better! Why is it so hard to expect that everyone doesn't like what you like!?! Damn you America with your ways of belief that everyone has to be the same as you. I know I am going to get flamed for this but it's true. Asians prefer games with point and click. Americans prefer WASD. Why must you harass them and insist that they make both point and click and WASD? Why should they? Should games that we as North Americans make games that are going to be played in the eastern hemisphere point and click with Asian graphics! No! So why should they? Everyone has their own styles. Everyone here doesn't see any need to COMPLETELY revamp WoW for Asia do they when Blizzard sets it up out there do they? The people who play WoW like the graphics the way they are. Why should we make the graphics into Asian graphicish so they can like it? Asians like their graphics. We like out graphics. If we aren't going to change our games for them why should they change their games for us? Majority is clearly the eastern hemisphere. They are a waaaay bigger market. It doesn't even make sense for them to make games we like because they are choosing the smaller market. Why if they have a 100 million person market make a game for a 10 million person market? it doesn't even make sense financially. Grind? Another big one. And, believe it or not... They... Like... it! They look at our games and think they are rediculous! Now I don't agree with this that grind is good but they like it better! So why shouldn't they make their games with grind? They just don't like our game systems. Why is it so hard to accept O America that not everyone is like you? The American mindset is so messed up that way that everyone has to be like them. It causes them to go to wars and "help out the needy". They son't want your help! But I digress... That has nothing to do with the subject. Proud to be Canadian.
You're too stupid to be Canadian. This anti-American stuff just for a guy who wants some controls added in the game that make it more enjoyable to him? While I understand the games are based off a game from the eastern hemisphere, they are marketing the game and servers here in the US. Hence, they might just be a little interested in what American gamers like when it comes to their control systems.
So by your silly comparison of countries, I guess we should not translate WoW into Korean or Japanese. Starcraft should only be the way it was designed here in America! We should not listen to experienced STARCRAFT GOD-gamers in Korea when Starcraft 2 is released because we shouldn't have to change the game for KOREANS.
Did I forget to mention all Americans are fat, lazy and arrogrant? LOL. Where do they raise you people these days? I don't expect anyone to be like me - I'm an individual. I'm simply asking for another feature in some of the great games that talented Korean developers have made and are trying to market in my country. Not once did I complain about griding and yet I have had listen to this crap about grinding.
Maybe they make point and click movement 'cuz asian gamers prefer it that way?
Korean MMO developers are gonna have to target us. Korea is to obsessed with Starcraft right now. I swear it is like their national religion. Oh, and by the way OP city of heroes is Korean.
CoH isn't Korean. It was made by Cryptic Studios in California. NCsoft is a Korean company but they also have a big Austin, TX office. NCsoft published CoH, they didn't make it. In fact, I think the Korean version of CoH didn't even launch until almost two years after the US version.
I don't mind point and click too much, but I prefer WASD. Actually, I like having the choice of either in games.
Every PCgame that has ever come out of China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/w/e, has always been a piece of shit. They all have the same shitty character style and the even worse "grind grind grind grind" gameplay. They should really consider stop making games for PC, and just stay with Nintendo and Playstation. Don't bother mentioning Final Fantasy, because that's the most overhyped piece of crap I've ever encountered.
Then how come so many more people are playing their games in general? Yes, because they have a bigger population. Obviously they like it. Like I said above in my large and forever getting bigger post that it doesn't make financial sense to market to a smaller market.
Quantity != Quality. My opinion is superior to yours.*
*Flamebait. If you answer the sentence marked with this, then you're an idiot.
Maybe... it's... because... they like it better! Why is it so hard to expect that everyone doesn't like what you like!?! Damn you America with your ways of belief that everyone has to be the same as you. I know I am going to get flamed for this but it's true. Asians prefer games with point and click. Americans prefer WASD. Why must you harass them and insist that they make both point and click and WASD? Why should they? Should games that we as North Americans make games that are going to be played in the eastern hemisphere point and click with Asian graphics! No! So why should they? Everyone has their own styles. Everyone here doesn't see any need to COMPLETELY revamp WoW for Asia do they when Blizzard sets it up out there do they? The people who play WoW like the graphics the way they are. Why should we make the graphics into Asian graphicish so they can like it? Asians like their graphics. We like out graphics. If we aren't going to change our games for them why should they change their games for us? Majority is clearly the eastern hemisphere. They are a waaaay bigger market. It doesn't even make sense for them to make games we like because they are choosing the smaller market. Why if they have a 100 million person market make a game for a 10 million person market? it doesn't even make sense financially. Grind? Another big one. And, believe it or not... They... Like... it! They look at our games and think they are rediculous! Now I don't agree with this that grind is good but they like it better! So why shouldn't they make their games with grind? They just don't like our game systems. Why is it so hard to accept O America that not everyone is like you? The American mindset is so messed up that way that everyone has to be like them. It causes them to go to wars and "help out the needy". They son't want your help! But I digress... That has nothing to do with the subject. Proud to be Canadian.
You're too stupid to be Canadian. This anti-American stuff just for a guy who wants some controls added in the game that make it more enjoyable to him? While I understand the games are based off a game from the eastern hemisphere, they are marketing the game and servers here in the US. Hence, they might just be a little interested in what American gamers like when it comes to their control systems.
So by your silly comparison of countries, I guess we should not translate WoW into Korean or Japanese. Starcraft should only be the way it was designed here in America! We should not listen to experienced STARCRAFT GOD-gamers in Korea when Starcraft 2 is released because we shouldn't have to change the game for KOREANS.
Did I forget to mention all Americans are fat, lazy and arrogrant? LOL. Where do they raise you people these days? I don't expect anyone to be like me - I'm an individual. I'm simply asking for another feature in some of the great games that talented Korean developers have made and are trying to market in my country. Not once did I complain about griding and yet I have had listen to this crap about grinding.
I didn't say that we shouldn't translate them. I said that if we ourselves are not changing any gameplay components to the way they like them? For example...
They like grind so why don't we add grind to our games!?!?!
Who would like that? That's why I'm saying that we shouldn't demand them to market their games completely to us. They like their graphics and we like ours. We wouldn't like making our games into asian graphics would we? I'm just saying the same goes to them. They wouldn't be impressed if they made their games with just WASD and North American graphics. I like North American games. The only Asian MMO I like is SotNW. I'm just pointing out the way they would feel.
Editing Note...
I am just using grinding as an example. Replace it with whatever you want. WASD, point or click, graphics, religion, whatever.
I don't expect them to change anything - I am asking them to add a feature. Consider using both control methods. Not much different than making the game levels take longer to do (which they do often over there) or in the case of games imported here, make them take less longer due to them adapting it to the western market (which I don't support btw but they do it). I'm simply asking for a different, I'm not even saying better, control method. It's not like I'm asking them to alter their damn national song or something!!!
Every PCgame that has ever come out of China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/w/e, has always been a piece of shit. They all have the same shitty character style and the even worse "grind grind grind grind" gameplay. They should really consider stop making games for PC, and just stay with Nintendo and Playstation. Don't bother mentioning Final Fantasy, because that's the most overhyped piece of crap I've ever encountered.
To SmileyMan:
That's but one man's opinion, which doesn't make it true. Many other gamers I know prefer Asian-made games since it is in a much better quality (if you only play the translated version of the game, you assumption is incorrect. You have not yet even experience the game in its original form, thus your statement is void.) Can't read the language? Don't understand the culture? Don't comment on it.
Aha. So we're not allowed to write our opinion about a game, until we've learned the culture and language that it was made in? I really doubt the "grind grind grind" gameplay can change through a translation.
Just keep your fingers off the keyboard.
Well, the "grind" is in every game, and there isn't one game without the "grind" that you speak of. The only difference is just that some companies does it better at incorporating it into something else. You don't like "grind", I understand, but that is not the reason to make general statement that "Every PCgame that has ever come out of China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/w/e, has always been a piece of shit." Such statements are untrue.
And yes, learn about the culture and language the game was made in will do justice to it. (Most of the translation is bad, and since people see the text being translated being weird or don't understand the idea behind it, they feel bored, and bash the game base on it. Most games are best in its original language, and by understand the culture of the way the game is made (Asian gamers tend to play differently than Western gamers, and there are many detail aspect to it that you can pick it out), you can understand the story of the game better, and you won't feel that it is a "grind".
So I still say learn to understand the idea and the culture behind the game, or don't comment on it.
Point and click games generally feature faster action, more awareness of what is going on, and better pathing all the way around, the exact things that people complain about in WASD games. Then again, those exact things are what make WASD a more immersive and skillful way of playing. It's all a matter of choice.
Point and click games can allow for the controller to have more awareness of what is going on, as for faster action, it goes totally against the premise. You can't have faster action and MORE awareness, this is why the faster model of WASD movement is more physically skilful and reaction based but the player can make less strategic decisions because the speed factor does not allot for more awareness.
Originally posted by ColdSun
In reality, a WASD movement system takes far more "thinking" than pointing to a spot on the ground in a game and watching your character make his way to that spot like some robot on a waypoint system.
No, it takes less "thinking" because in the WASD model you become engrossed in the movement, as it attempts to mimic natural movement methods.
In the MMORPG model It is a fairly simple concept, which you both had valid reasoning but also missed in some respects;
Chess allows for a lot of strategy, and shows off the players ability to think and strategize in great depth. Speed Chess on the other hand is mostly about your ability to think on the fly coupled with biomechanical memory. Whose mind can react with use of memory the fastest, with the use of fast hand movement.
While the mind and hand eye coordination are used in both scenarios they are really inversely proportional in use when looking at the "Point-and-Click" and "WASD" models. PaC allowing higher strategy but lower physical ability usage, WASD allowing lower strategy and higher physical ability usage.
Keep in mind this is the current compilation, in the future, possibly mimicking in great detail RTS shortcut usage as in Starcraft, an MMORPG could be unveiled that takes great dexterity through use of shortcuts, this model however is more akin to speed chess than chess however, as one is required to again sacrifice time for action.
I think some of the asian MMOs are fantastic. I have no complaints myself such as that. I have a few "issues" and wishes I would like to see in them to make the experience better for me, but that doesn't stop me from playing them.
Flyff for example. I love that game! I had no idea it had WASD movement. I'll be playing it more tonight. I think the user interface is pretty fun and impressive. I wish it supported higher resolution though. My widescreen monitor would look so much better with it.
Tantra Online. I really like the UI and graphics in this game. The classes and characters are very interesting. My issue with this game is twofold - no WASD movement that I could get working, and I had a hard time finding anyone that spoke english to play with.
Rappelz - damn good game! Supports higher resolution and the combat animations are nifty. I wish it had WASD...
I am in the process of trying Last Chaos now. I already know its point and click. Trying to see if I can tweak the resolution higher though.
Every PCgame that has ever come out of China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/w/e, has always been a piece of shit. They all have the same shitty character style and the even worse "grind grind grind grind" gameplay. They should really consider stop making games for PC, and just stay with Nintendo and Playstation. Don't bother mentioning Final Fantasy, because that's the most overhyped piece of crap I've ever encountered.
To SmileyMan:
That's but one man's opinion, which doesn't make it true. Many other gamers I know prefer Asian-made games since it is in a much better quality (if you only play the translated version of the game, you assumption is incorrect. You have not yet even experience the game in its original form, thus your statement is void.) Can't read the language? Don't understand the culture? Don't comment on it.
Aha. So we're not allowed to write our opinion about a game, until we've learned the culture and language that it was made in? I really doubt the "grind grind grind" gameplay can change through a translation.
Just keep your fingers off the keyboard.
Well, the "grind" is in every game, and there isn't one game without the "grind" that you speak of. The only difference is just that some companies does it better at incorporating it into something else. You don't like "grind", I understand, but that is not the reason to make general statement that "Every PCgame that has ever come out of China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/w/e, has always been a piece of shit." Such statements are untrue.
And yes, learn about the culture and language the game was made in will do justice to it. (Most of the translation is bad, and since people see the text being translated being weird or don't understand the idea behind it, they feel bored, and bash the game base on it. Most games are best in its original language, and by understand the culture of the way the game is made (Asian gamers tend to play differently than Western gamers, and there are many detail aspect to it that you can pick it out), you can understand the story of the game better, and you won't feel that it is a "grind".
So I still say learn to understand the idea and the culture behind the game, or don't comment on it.
I'm not going to study another culture, just because I want to enjoy a game. If a game demands that I study the culture it was made in, before I can enjoy it, then fuck that game.
Point and click games generally feature faster action, more awareness of what is going on, and better pathing all the way around, the exact things that people complain about in WASD games. Then again, those exact things are what make WASD a more immersive and skillful way of playing. It's all a matter of choice.
Point and click games can allow for the controller to have more awareness of what is going on, as for faster action, it goes totally against the premise. You can't have faster action and MORE awareness, this is why the faster model of WASD movement is more physically skilful and reaction based but the player can make less strategic decisions because the speed factor does not allot for more awareness.
Originally posted by ColdSun
In reality, a WASD movement system takes far more "thinking" than pointing to a spot on the ground in a game and watching your character make his way to that spot like some robot on a waypoint system.
No, it takes less "thinking" because in the WASD model you become engrossed in the movement, as it attempts to mimic natural movement methods.
In the MMORPG model It is a fairly simple concept, which you both had valid reasoning but also missed in some respects;
Chess allows for a lot of strategy, and shows off the players ability to think and strategize in great depth. Speed Chess on the other hand is mostly about your ability to think on the fly coupled with biomechanical memory. Whose mind can react with use of memory the fastest, with the use of fast hand movement.
While the mind and hand eye coordination are used in both scenarios they are really inversely proportional in use when looking at the "Point-and-Click" and "WASD" models. PaC allowing higher strategy but lower physical ability usage, WASD allowing lower strategy and higher physical ability usage.
Keep in mind this is the current compilation, in the future, possibly mimicking in great detail RTS shortcut usage as in Starcraft, an MMORPG could be unveiled that takes great dexterity through use of shortcuts, this model however is more akin to speed chess than chess however, as one is required to again sacrifice time for action.
Awesome post. I definately stand corrected and agree with you.
I'm not going to study another culture, just because I want to enjoy a game. If it a game demands that I study the culture it was made in, before I can enjoy it, then fuck that game.
Is it just me or is this guy an Oxymoron. From the point of view of his nick of course.
South Korea will exceed $2.0 billion in 2007 Taiwan, inclusive of MMORPG and casual games will exceed $300 million in 2007 China's online game market will grow 35 percent and reach $1.3 Billion in 2007. Basicly seeing that the only " real " succes from the west has been WoW and BC over there. I doubt they gonna change (much) in how they make games.
Don't throw around with big numbers without providing a valid source.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I'm not going to study another culture, just because I want to enjoy a game. If it a game demands that I study the culture it was made in, before I can enjoy it, then fuck that game.
Is it just me or is this guy an Oxymoron. From the point of view of his nick of course.
WoW, SWG, Guild Wars and CoH/V have point-and-click also. I use it in very laggy areas in WoW and in Guild wars its great for the really curvy paths. I call it AFK travel. Point-and-click has nothing to do with success.
South Korea will exceed $2.0 billion in 2007 Taiwan, inclusive of MMORPG and casual games will exceed $300 million in 2007 China's online game market will grow 35 percent and reach $1.3 Billion in 2007. Basicly seeing that the only " real " succes from the west has been WoW and BC over there. I doubt they gonna change (much) in how they make games.
Don't throw around with big numbers without providing a valid source.
Maybe they make point and click movement 'cuz asian gamers prefer it that way?
Korean MMO developers are gonna have to target us. Korea is to obsessed with Starcraft right now. I swear it is like their national religion. Oh, and by the way OP city of heroes is Korean.
CoH isn't Korean. It was made by Cryptic Studios in California. NCsoft is a Korean company but they also have a big Austin, TX office. NCsoft published CoH, they didn't make it. In fact, I think the Korean version of CoH didn't even launch until almost two years after the US version.
I don't mind point and click too much, but I prefer WASD. Actually, I like having the choice of either in games.
ok yes I understand. Sorry I made a mistake, but NCsoft is still a korean company non the less which mean I bet korea still has some influence on the game. The OP left a nice little message in my inbox about this topic. I
I don't think it's east prefer this, we prefer that...
Point and click also saves alot of network and server processing compared to WASD. Running around with a WASD client you need to send left-forward-forward-left-left-etc messages to the server while Point and click only need to know your original position and your destination. Most F2P games are usually quite laggy in central areas...
I believe that Icelandic space game uses point and click as well. Probably because they can do big epic battles without lag that way. Or maybe Iceland is just a "different culture" as well?
I kinda agree. The game may well be developed in Asia, but when they set up U.S. servers and want US players to enjoy it, WASD movement is a big plus. There are a number of people (like me) here who won't even try to enjoy the game if you have to point and click to move... Not saying that that is right, but its the truth. So if they are interested in being sucessful here, not having WASD movement is a negative.
And about the guy who posted the revenue... Who cares? Obviouslythey want the game to be sucessful in America or else they would not have the game here. So we are a big enough market for them to care apparently.
Me, personally, don't care for games made in Asia. Not because they are made in Asia, but because they have different views on what is enjoyable in a game. And 99% of the time, my views contradict with theirs.
Im not a big fan of the Korean style MMORPGs either. I favor the WASD movement keys, but I do come from a FPS background so it is more natural to me. Most of these kind of games are target and click an auto attack. I understand that, and each system has advantages and disadvantages. I will say that the biggest disadvantage of mouse movement to me is the lack of a jump function.
As MMORPGs progress though, the mouse move system may have difficulty. I cant imagine it working very well in the kind of combat Age Of Conan is bringing.
My biggest concerns about the Korean MMORPGs though, is lack of custimization for the avatars (appearance and skills), the unimaginitive quests (collect 100 bear paws, now collect 100 bear pelts etc.), and the pathing of the characters. Why take the time to animate vast beautiful landscapes, and make 50% of the area unavailable. You see a wonderfully animated stand of bamboo in the distance that you want to explore, but your character cant get there because its off the designated path. Everywhere you want to go, you hit that dreaded invisble wall and your toon just stands there running and butting their heads against it.
Im not a developer or a programmer, so I dont know, but it seems that its almost a cheap way out of actually designing a fully immersive 3D world , becuase your your actually just following very narrow corridors.
Ive had some fun with the f2p games, and i do try most of them too. I actually enjoyed the Silkroad Online beta, even though I'm not, and will not be a subcsriber. But personally Id rather pay for a more western style MMORPG.
Comments
That's but one man's opinion, which doesn't make it true. Many other gamers I know prefer Asian-made games since it is in a much better quality (if you only play the translated version of the game, you assumption is incorrect. You have not yet even experience the game in its original form, thus your statement is void.) Can't read the language? Don't understand the culture? Don't comment on it.
AS to the OP, I understand you like to use WASD to move in the game, but currently the games made by Asian companies (may it be Korean, Japanese, Chinese), their main focus is the Asian market first, not the Western world. Thus they would program the way it would be accepted into the Asian market. And if it's successful, then they will expanding the game into the Western world.
I agree that they should put the option of the use of WASD into the game, but PnC will still be consider the mainstream in Asia, so don't expect they will change everything. In the future, they probably would start to add the option, but to remove this form of control? not likely.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
To SmileyMan:That's but one man's opinion, which doesn't make it true. Many other gamers I know prefer Asian-made games since it is in a much better quality (if you only play the translated version of the game, you assumption is incorrect. You have not yet even experience the game in its original form, thus your statement is void.) Can't read the language? Don't understand the culture? Don't comment on it.
Aha. So we're not allowed to write our opinion about a game, until we've learned the culture and language that it was made in? I really doubt the "grind grind grind" gameplay can change through a translation.
Just keep your fingers off the keyboard.
O'rly.
Then how come so many more people are playing their games in general? Yes, because they have a bigger population. Obviously they like it. Like I said above in my large and forever getting bigger post that it doesn't make financial sense to market to a smaller market.
So by your silly comparison of countries, I guess we should not translate WoW into Korean or Japanese. Starcraft should only be the way it was designed here in America! We should not listen to experienced STARCRAFT GOD-gamers in Korea when Starcraft 2 is released because we shouldn't have to change the game for KOREANS.
Did I forget to mention all Americans are fat, lazy and arrogrant? LOL. Where do they raise you people these days? I don't expect anyone to be like me - I'm an individual. I'm simply asking for another feature in some of the great games that talented Korean developers have made and are trying to market in my country. Not once did I complain about griding and yet I have had listen to this crap about grinding.
ColdSun
Korean MMO developers are gonna have to target us. Korea is to obsessed with Starcraft right now. I swear it is like their national religion.
Oh, and by the way OP city of heroes is Korean.
CoH isn't Korean. It was made by Cryptic Studios in California. NCsoft is a Korean company but they also have a big Austin, TX office. NCsoft published CoH, they didn't make it. In fact, I think the Korean version of CoH didn't even launch until almost two years after the US version.
I don't mind point and click too much, but I prefer WASD. Actually, I like having the choice of either in games.
Then how come so many more people are playing their games in general? Yes, because they have a bigger population. Obviously they like it. Like I said above in my large and forever getting bigger post that it doesn't make financial sense to market to a smaller market.
Quantity != Quality. My opinion is superior to yours.*
*Flamebait. If you answer the sentence marked with this, then you're an idiot.
O'rly.
You're too stupid to be Canadian. This anti-American stuff just for a guy who wants some controls added in the game that make it more enjoyable to him? While I understand the games are based off a game from the eastern hemisphere, they are marketing the game and servers here in the US. Hence, they might just be a little interested in what American gamers like when it comes to their control systems.So by your silly comparison of countries, I guess we should not translate WoW into Korean or Japanese. Starcraft should only be the way it was designed here in America! We should not listen to experienced STARCRAFT GOD-gamers in Korea when Starcraft 2 is released because we shouldn't have to change the game for KOREANS.
Did I forget to mention all Americans are fat, lazy and arrogrant? LOL. Where do they raise you people these days? I don't expect anyone to be like me - I'm an individual. I'm simply asking for another feature in some of the great games that talented Korean developers have made and are trying to market in my country. Not once did I complain about griding and yet I have had listen to this crap about grinding.
I didn't say that we shouldn't translate them. I said that if we ourselves are not changing any gameplay components to the way they like them? For example...
They like grind so why don't we add grind to our games!?!?!
Who would like that? That's why I'm saying that we shouldn't demand them to market their games completely to us. They like their graphics and we like ours. We wouldn't like making our games into asian graphics would we? I'm just saying the same goes to them. They wouldn't be impressed if they made their games with just WASD and North American graphics. I like North American games. The only Asian MMO I like is SotNW. I'm just pointing out the way they would feel.
Editing Note...
I am just using grinding as an example. Replace it with whatever you want. WASD, point or click, graphics, religion, whatever.
Tsolless,
I don't expect them to change anything - I am asking them to add a feature. Consider using both control methods. Not much different than making the game levels take longer to do (which they do often over there) or in the case of games imported here, make them take less longer due to them adapting it to the western market (which I don't support btw but they do it). I'm simply asking for a different, I'm not even saying better, control method. It's not like I'm asking them to alter their damn national song or something!!!
ColdSun
That's but one man's opinion, which doesn't make it true. Many other gamers I know prefer Asian-made games since it is in a much better quality (if you only play the translated version of the game, you assumption is incorrect. You have not yet even experience the game in its original form, thus your statement is void.) Can't read the language? Don't understand the culture? Don't comment on it.
Aha. So we're not allowed to write our opinion about a game, until we've learned the culture and language that it was made in? I really doubt the "grind grind grind" gameplay can change through a translation.
Just keep your fingers off the keyboard.
Well, the "grind" is in every game, and there isn't one game without the "grind" that you speak of. The only difference is just that some companies does it better at incorporating it into something else. You don't like "grind", I understand, but that is not the reason to make general statement that "Every PC game that has ever come out of China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/w/e, has always been a piece of shit." Such statements are untrue.
And yes, learn about the culture and language the game was made in will do justice to it. (Most of the translation is bad, and since people see the text being translated being weird or don't understand the idea behind it, they feel bored, and bash the game base on it. Most games are best in its original language, and by understand the culture of the way the game is made (Asian gamers tend to play differently than Western gamers, and there are many detail aspect to it that you can pick it out), you can understand the story of the game better, and you won't feel that it is a "grind".
So I still say learn to understand the idea and the culture behind the game, or don't comment on it.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Point and click games can allow for the controller to have more awareness of what is going on, as for faster action, it goes totally against the premise. You can't have faster action and MORE awareness, this is why the faster model of WASD movement is more physically skilful and reaction based but the player can make less strategic decisions because the speed factor does not allot for more awareness.
No, it takes less "thinking" because in the WASD model you become engrossed in the movement, as it attempts to mimic natural movement methods.
In the MMORPG model It is a fairly simple concept, which you both had valid reasoning but also missed in some respects;
Chess allows for a lot of strategy, and shows off the players ability to think and strategize in great depth. Speed Chess on the other hand is mostly about your ability to think on the fly coupled with biomechanical memory. Whose mind can react with use of memory the fastest, with the use of fast hand movement.
While the mind and hand eye coordination are used in both scenarios they are really inversely proportional in use when looking at the "Point-and-Click" and "WASD" models. PaC allowing higher strategy but lower physical ability usage, WASD allowing lower strategy and higher physical ability usage.
Keep in mind this is the current compilation, in the future, possibly mimicking in great detail RTS shortcut usage as in Starcraft, an MMORPG could be unveiled that takes great dexterity through use of shortcuts, this model however is more akin to speed chess than chess however, as one is required to again sacrifice time for action.
- Burying Threads Since 1979 -
I think some of the asian MMOs are fantastic. I have no complaints myself such as that. I have a few "issues" and wishes I would like to see in them to make the experience better for me, but that doesn't stop me from playing them.
Flyff for example. I love that game! I had no idea it had WASD movement. I'll be playing it more tonight. I think the user interface is pretty fun and impressive. I wish it supported higher resolution though. My widescreen monitor would look so much better with it.
Tantra Online. I really like the UI and graphics in this game. The classes and characters are very interesting. My issue with this game is twofold - no WASD movement that I could get working, and I had a hard time finding anyone that spoke english to play with.
Rappelz - damn good game! Supports higher resolution and the combat animations are nifty. I wish it had WASD...
I am in the process of trying Last Chaos now. I already know its point and click. Trying to see if I can tweak the resolution higher though.
ColdSun
To SmileyMan:That's but one man's opinion, which doesn't make it true. Many other gamers I know prefer Asian-made games since it is in a much better quality (if you only play the translated version of the game, you assumption is incorrect. You have not yet even experience the game in its original form, thus your statement is void.) Can't read the language? Don't understand the culture? Don't comment on it.
Aha. So we're not allowed to write our opinion about a game, until we've learned the culture and language that it was made in? I really doubt the "grind grind grind" gameplay can change through a translation.
Just keep your fingers off the keyboard.
Well, the "grind" is in every game, and there isn't one game without the "grind" that you speak of. The only difference is just that some companies does it better at incorporating it into something else. You don't like "grind", I understand, but that is not the reason to make general statement that "Every PC game that has ever come out of China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/w/e, has always been a piece of shit." Such statements are untrue.
And yes, learn about the culture and language the game was made in will do justice to it. (Most of the translation is bad, and since people see the text being translated being weird or don't understand the idea behind it, they feel bored, and bash the game base on it. Most games are best in its original language, and by understand the culture of the way the game is made (Asian gamers tend to play differently than Western gamers, and there are many detail aspect to it that you can pick it out), you can understand the story of the game better, and you won't feel that it is a "grind".
So I still say learn to understand the idea and the culture behind the game, or don't comment on it.
I'm not going to study another culture, just because I want to enjoy a game. If a game demands that I study the culture it was made in, before I can enjoy it, then fuck that game.
O'rly.
Point and click games can allow for the controller to have more awareness of what is going on, as for faster action, it goes totally against the premise. You can't have faster action and MORE awareness, this is why the faster model of WASD movement is more physically skilful and reaction based but the player can make less strategic decisions because the speed factor does not allot for more awareness.
No, it takes less "thinking" because in the WASD model you become engrossed in the movement, as it attempts to mimic natural movement methods.
In the MMORPG model It is a fairly simple concept, which you both had valid reasoning but also missed in some respects;
Chess allows for a lot of strategy, and shows off the players ability to think and strategize in great depth. Speed Chess on the other hand is mostly about your ability to think on the fly coupled with biomechanical memory. Whose mind can react with use of memory the fastest, with the use of fast hand movement.
While the mind and hand eye coordination are used in both scenarios they are really inversely proportional in use when looking at the "Point-and-Click" and "WASD" models. PaC allowing higher strategy but lower physical ability usage, WASD allowing lower strategy and higher physical ability usage.
Keep in mind this is the current compilation, in the future, possibly mimicking in great detail RTS shortcut usage as in Starcraft, an MMORPG could be unveiled that takes great dexterity through use of shortcuts, this model however is more akin to speed chess than chess however, as one is required to again sacrifice time for action.
Awesome post. I definately stand corrected and agree with you.
ColdSun
South Korea will exceed $2.0 billion in 2007
Taiwan, inclusive of MMORPG and casual games will exceed $300 million in 2007
China's online game market will grow 35 percent and reach $1.3 Billion in 2007.
Basicly seeing that the only " real " succes from the west has been WoW and BC over there. I doubt they gonna change (much) in how they make games.
Is it just me or is this guy an Oxymoron. From the point of view of his nick of course.
- Burying Threads Since 1979 -
Don't throw around with big numbers without providing a valid source.
O'rly.
Dear Korean Developers : No more MMOs please
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Is it just me or is this guy an Oxymoron. From the point of view of his nick of course.
Yep.
O'rly.
WoW, SWG, Guild Wars and CoH/V have point-and-click also. I use it in very laggy areas in WoW and in Guild wars its great for the really curvy paths. I call it AFK travel. Point-and-click has nothing to do with success.
Don't throw around with big numbers without providing a valid source.
http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/mobile/2006/07/11/south-korean-games-market-expected-to-exceed-20-billion-in-2007
http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/c55216
http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSSHA27160820070628
Korean MMO developers are gonna have to target us. Korea is to obsessed with Starcraft right now. I swear it is like their national religion.
Oh, and by the way OP city of heroes is Korean.
CoH isn't Korean. It was made by Cryptic Studios in California. NCsoft is a Korean company but they also have a big Austin, TX office. NCsoft published CoH, they didn't make it. In fact, I think the Korean version of CoH didn't even launch until almost two years after the US version.
I don't mind point and click too much, but I prefer WASD. Actually, I like having the choice of either in games.
ok yes I understand. Sorry I made a mistake, but NCsoft is still a korean company non the less which mean I bet korea still has some influence on the game. The OP left a nice little message in my inbox about this topic. I
Anime art Community
Final Fantasy 7
I'm the OP and I did not leave you a message. Must be someone else hehe.
ColdSun
I don't think it's east prefer this, we prefer that...
Point and click also saves alot of network and server processing compared to WASD. Running around with a WASD client you need to send left-forward-forward-left-left-etc messages to the server while Point and click only need to know your original position and your destination. Most F2P games are usually quite laggy in central areas...
I believe that Icelandic space game uses point and click as well. Probably because they can do big epic battles without lag that way. Or maybe Iceland is just a "different culture" as well?
I kinda agree. The game may well be developed in Asia, but when they set up U.S. servers and want US players to enjoy it, WASD movement is a big plus. There are a number of people (like me) here who won't even try to enjoy the game if you have to point and click to move... Not saying that that is right, but its the truth. So if they are interested in being sucessful here, not having WASD movement is a negative.
And about the guy who posted the revenue... Who cares? Obviouslythey want the game to be sucessful in America or else they would not have the game here. So we are a big enough market for them to care apparently.
Me, personally, don't care for games made in Asia. Not because they are made in Asia, but because they have different views on what is enjoyable in a game. And 99% of the time, my views contradict with theirs.
Im not a big fan of the Korean style MMORPGs either. I favor the WASD movement keys, but I do come from a FPS background so it is more natural to me. Most of these kind of games are target and click an auto attack. I understand that, and each system has advantages and disadvantages. I will say that the biggest disadvantage of mouse movement to me is the lack of a jump function.
As MMORPGs progress though, the mouse move system may have difficulty. I cant imagine it working very well in the kind of combat Age Of Conan is bringing.
My biggest concerns about the Korean MMORPGs though, is lack of custimization for the avatars (appearance and skills), the unimaginitive quests (collect 100 bear paws, now collect 100 bear pelts etc.), and the pathing of the characters. Why take the time to animate vast beautiful landscapes, and make 50% of the area unavailable. You see a wonderfully animated stand of bamboo in the distance that you want to explore, but your character cant get there because its off the designated path. Everywhere you want to go, you hit that dreaded invisble wall and your toon just stands there running and butting their heads against it.
Im not a developer or a programmer, so I dont know, but it seems that its almost a cheap way out of actually designing a fully immersive 3D world , becuase your your actually just following very narrow corridors.
Ive had some fun with the f2p games, and i do try most of them too. I actually enjoyed the Silkroad Online beta, even though I'm not, and will not be a subcsriber. But personally Id rather pay for a more western style MMORPG.