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Hands Down the Worst PvP of any MMO
RonnyRulz
Member Posts: 479
This is both a WARNING to future players, and a Question from a confused player (me).
I played this during beta. I have two accounts, BOTH with elder status.
I loved loved LOVED the PvE in this game! It is very very good! The classes are incredible, and the realms are amazing!
My favorite part of any game though, is the PvP.
Of any PvP game, whether MMORPG or FPS, I've never had an experience worse than DAoC.
You spend all your time getting a group and/or roaming around a map that's way too big. If you're minus important classes, it's even worse. Finding a group in the Zerg can be worse than suicide, and 8-mans are pointless.
The community are a bunch of elitist snobs, making any newbie suffer mercilessly. I can't imagine trying to introduce my friends into this anti-newbie elitist game.
Good guilds, which are almost a requirement in RvR, are almost impossible to come by.
Balance. Ignoring class and realm class balances completely, it's still one of the most UNBALANCED games ever made.
The realm's population (Gareth) is incredibly unbalanced. Playing Albion, the game is horrible. The other two realms always outnumber albion indefinitely.
Whether Zerg or 8-man, it's the same. You run around in a group roaming, you find a few soloers or a small group of 2-4. You instantly, without a fair fight, completely slaughter the enemy without breaking a sweat. You continue to roam and fight battles you cannot possible lose until you find the enemy Zerg, or a group bigger than yours (two or three of the other realm's 8-man's) and then, without a fair fight, you die with absolutely no chance of winning.
That's RvR. You run around picking fights that you can't possibly lose, roam more, roam roam roam, and then die in a fight you can't possibly win. The population unbalance is ridiculous, because population is everything. 16v8 isn't a fight, it's over. But that's a rarity in itself, as it's usually 8v1, 8v2, or 8v32. With the zerg, Hibernia and Midgard outnumber Albion so much, Albion isn't even considered much of a threat.
Am I missing something? Why is DAoC raved about as one of the best PvP MMO's out there? It's absolutely horrible! It requires an infinite amount of time just to get a group, and then roam to find an enemy group, only to instantly win or instantly lose without a balanced fight.
I'd take WoW's PvP anyday over this. In WoW it's ALWAYS balanced population. It's never 8v1 or 80v8. In WoW the map is as big as the amount of players required. It's never so big that you spend 99% of your time roaming around just trying to get somewhere.
I used to love DAoC PvP back in Jr.High when I'd play a Scout in Thidranki, before any of the expansions came out.
Now it's New Frontiers, Zergs, 8-mans, and battles that are never fair. If you're lucky, nay blessed by God Himself AND THEN SOME, (You probably also have to have a +10 lucky four-leaf clover artifact from HOMM5) then MAYBE, JUST MAYBE you can find a fair fight of 8v8.
Oh, and don't even go anywhere near Solo fights. Everyone soloing is RR8-10, which compared to RR5 is basically God-Like in power. For you to even come close to being able to fight solo, you have to be forced to group for months just to get up RR rank.
Am I missing something? Why is this game's PvP praised as the greatest, when it's the worst?
I am very sincere in my request for an explanation. Am I just ignorant? Blind? Or the only one who realizes ganging up 8v1 isn't fun? I get no joy in fights that I have no chance losing or winning. Where is the balance?
Comments
Well, PvP actually Meant something.
You fought for your realm, not for yourself. That's what would've motivated me, that's what turns me off Eve's PvP, WoW's PvP and whatnot. I never played DAoC though, it just went by me, until I read up about WAR and Mythic, I never heard of DAoC, it makes me sad I missed it.
DAOC "used" to be great PvP, way back when the population was High, anymore its not very good, occasioonally you will get a good battle but not very often. Once upon a time the battles went long and intense, the battles in many RvR areas were packed.
Out of curiosity, did you just try BGs? and what level BGs did you try? If I missed if in your post correct me
Honestly, this is a whine thread. The population on that cluster shifts month to month, Many people have 50s on all three realms.
That being said, you need to find a guild. There are a lot of good Albion RvR groups.
The balance is in the way you form your group, and play as a group. MMORPGs are not solo games.
Talk about one of the games most powerful classes? theurg? friar? lol Albion is just as fair as any of the other realms.
You need to get RR5 in Cathal, then work towards your Champ levels. Thats the only way you are going to be effective. You are not ever going to be able to 1v1 a RR8 at RR1,2,3, etc.
You must devout time and energy into developing a character, then you can be successful. You must be diplomatic and not so whiny and you can then find a solid gank group to level through realm ranks.
You are going to get rolled, a lot. Its part of playing an established PvP game. You just have to learn how to play it. It doesn't matter if you have Elder tags or not, I started playing again on a new account about three months ago. I just hit RR6 and CL 5 on my Vale and RR2L5 on my bard. I made my own guild, now I made my own alliance.
Its all about devotion, patience, and diplomacy.
What tylerwick said, when the servers were full it was heaven a year or so ago!!
Ive played DAOC since day 1 and agree with some of your comments and totally disagree with others.
I love the battlegrounds in DAOC. The idea of erecting Trebuchets and battering down a wall, Ramming a keep door down, scaling walls to clear the parapets etc was exciting to me. You could play a solo stealther type and have fun or be part of a group if you desired. You could siege or roam and zerg etc etc.
Balance has always been a problem in any game and when you have 3 realms and 34 plus distinct classes its even harder. But I can say that Mythic has for the most part not only listened to thier gaming community but auctally respond to it with class changes and balances. Have they all been perfect or made everyone happy? No and never will.
Now the New Frontiers RVR is another story and I auctally agree with you. Its too big. It seems all about the zerg and the population is just too low nowdays.
Comparing it to WOW pvp, thier not even close to the same. To me WOW pvp is a joke. Too many macro one button spamming I win classes. Not saying that some classes in DAOC arent better in certian situations than others but thats how it should be. WOW classes are unbalnced because the game was designed for PVE with Arenas, Battlegrounds etc an afterthought. DAOC was and is an RVR game designed for that.
Last the PVE. To me WOW PVE is ten times better than DAOC, The only reason mainly to PVE in DAOC is to level for the Battlegrounds. Loots tables were never updated to make older zones viable to PVE in, population too low for large raids as in the old days.
Anyways even though I left DAOC last month its one of my favorite games out, Ive played online games since MUDS and will miss the old days of DAOC.
John P Cooper
Welcome to 6 years into a game... move on.
_________________________________
I dont know what server you were on but albion was always favorite with hibs second and mids dead last. I played on the pellinor server and thats how it was, alb,hib then mids. Thats how it was on most servers... not all of them. DAOC had the best PVP around and imo still does. The only thing that doesnt make it shine is the pop balance and elitest guilds that still play. A new lvl 50 character cant stand up to someone who has over a million realm pts or more. Thats just how it is and is rightly so imo. What hurt the game was some bad expansions and timely nerfs sent a good amount packing. Even tho the game has lost almost most of its flare or shine, its still a great game if you find a good pve/pvp guild to run with. It was my first mmo and one i have had the most fun in and played for a much longer time compared all the other MMO's ive played after.
8v1 happened but what would you expect, your still worth rlm pts and they want it. If you run out in rvr land, dont for once thing you will survive every single time while trying to make it to your destination. You cant balance people getting caught in 8v1 fights, its random and it happens in any pvp game. DAOC is a great game, it sucks watching it fade away to nothing.
Oh ya, straight up eight mans are on the island now, go there for 8v8. Come packing some real ranks because you will get rolled by Bedlam.
YEs you are missing something ... its called skill..
More any any other pvp mmorpg out there daoc requires skill.. you don't play well you get fed you play just ok but someone else plays super you get f'ed. You play super they sux you F them. (equipment matter but it take s backseat even to skill).
The other day in thid my and my deck friend got both killed by one reaver... it was so sad ... we are good players and well equiped... we just choice the wrong moves and he chose the right ones.
That beign said a skald /runemaster combo (me and friend) took out a 5 man group. WE had not healer even and WERE NOT decked i wa sin blue aurulite armor... what happened, easy i owned them and my firend did well. (i had 3 on me and i took 2 out w/o help, killed one right away other two i just out skilled/played). This doesn't happen in wow unless your armor equal god and their's crap.
That being said i understand the frustration about NF ... i liek to roam but not to hit small grousp i want a fg ... so my group can mezz /cc/ kill them before they kill us. Suprize plays a giant role in daoc rvr. Really tho if you were not using TS or vent or some VC then you get want to ask for .... you bet they even use this in wow pvp ... or the side that does always beats the side that doesn't... why its called teamwork... its required for daoc and helps in wow.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
The OP has obviously has never been in a PUG WSG team, in WoW when it's 4 v 10
and they're a twinked pre-made.
we did get 1 flag, back though..... and lost 3-1.
As for World PvP in WoW, uhhh you haven't played as the Horde much have you; in Nagrand we're always heavily outnumbered... on my server. It's more fun, but heavy unbalanced.
*shrugs* cry more?
I have a quick question about these RR levels, having never played DAOC. What are they and how do they matter in RVR PVP?
I'm only asking because although I love Guild Wars, I hate the fame ranking system for the Hall of Heroes arena. It's incredibly hard if not impossible to get into any group if you don't have a minimum fame ranking of 7-8 or above. Does DAOC have a similar ranking that makes it tough for new or casual players to get up to speed?
Also, does DAOC even have instanced battlefields like what's being promised in WAR?
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
As far as getting groups, in DAOC, if you are trying to get into a group, it is possible they will check your realm rank. Mostly pickup groups don't care as long as you are the class they are looking for at the time.
DAOC does not have instanced battlefields like in WAR. All DAOC battlefields are persistant although there are a couple of areas which are instances, on normal servers, they are not RvR zones.
Although I agree with your assessment of the cycle of RvR: roam, kill small groups / soloers, get one or two 8v8 fights, get ganked or AJ'd by zerg. I disagree that it is all bad, and I disagree that Alb on Bossiney cluster is getting AJ'd by the other realms due to numbers.
I also feel that you *sound* like you levelled to 50 and then joined in RvR in PUGs. If this is true, you can expect nothing more than what you are seeing. If you cannot get yourself into a guild or alliance that runs consistant RvR groups, you are going to get rolled quite consistently by Hib and Mid groups that do. I recommend you get some RR, join some guild groups that are looking for your class periodically, and then join that guild if you have a good time and enjoy their playstyle.
There are many problems with DAOC RvR, however it is not "the worst pvp of any mmo." That was just a drama whine to get responses here. There are elitists, which you are not going to see but once in a blue moon anyway because they all fight in Agramon where there is an unwritten 8v8 "code." Be aware that if you travel there in your PUG, you will get rolled while realm mates from another group sit and watch. If you stay away from Agramon and flaming areas on the war map, you can find some good fights with 6-8 mans looking for the same thing.
You have to understand that RvR is borked now due to cross-realming. I, and many like me, have opposing realm toons in big RvR guilds or alliances. Many times the guy in the group across from you is someone in your guild that didn't want to play the class that was open in your group that night. So, what has messed up rvr in many ways now has nothing to do with the mechanics of RvR but rather the changed realm dynamics due to server clustering. It's a catch 22 for us. We can play whatever we want, but the very nature of that freedom leads to imbalance.
The whole DAOC has "good" pvp thing started back when it came out because basicly it was the ONLY pvp game out (since it was the first mmorpg after Everquest)
The simple truth is DAOC never had good pvp. Much like its predecessor it sold out balance and quality in exchange for sales and short-term profit.
Elder title doesnt show nothing ... Probably u didnt rvr enough .
In daoc , you need skill , if u dont have it , then go play wow ... With 8man group u can kill 2 groups , maybe and 3 groups of players , if u and your group is skilled enough , know their classes , have good reacting , and so many things ...
In my server as far i remember , 8 men , killed 101 albs together ... How u explain this ? :-)
You are true , daoc is a elitist game , high rr ppls doesnt show any respect to non-elite ppls ...
But still daoc is the game with best rvr (i havent tried eve online yet, so dont blame me) . If u think some classes are unbalanced , you are right ...
But when u are grouping , and running with a good setup group , unbalance doesnt exist ...
Think! Its hard to do a balanced game , with 3 realms , 5-6 different races per realm , and 24-28 classes...
If you need me to make a list of games that were out at the time DAOC released, then I will, but nearly all of them except EQ had some pvp. I say except EQ, because the pvp servers for EQ had not been out all that long when DAOC was released.
The problem with DOAC pvp is that people who rarely RvR think that it sucks because they get rolled when they do the same things to a PC that they do to an NPC. They wonder why they can't own a simple yellow con PC the way they own the OJs and Reds they were farming all day long. Well, it is because they don't know how to play their character in RvR. Seriously. You can level to 50, get CL 10, get ML 10, and level all your artifacts now without any rvr experience. People then go into RvR expecting to be successful just because they have good gear and a fundamental knowledge of their classes pve capability. Well, if you don't RvR, you don't know how to play your class in RvR. Essentially, you don't know how to play your class in RvR until you are about Realm Rank 5 now days.
RvR is very specific too. You may become very adept at RvR in the the BGs, but once you get to big-boy, you get rolled. You still have a learning curve. You may be good at bridge camping, but when you run in a group in NF, you don't properly know your roll, so you get spanked. You may be good at RvR in Labyrinth, but out in NF your group gets owned. It is not easy to learn your roll in all circumstances and it takes practice. If you want to group and win, you had better be grouping with the same people continuously, and you better be on vent, and you better know your rolls. If you don't, you are going to get hammered in RvR because the good people are in the same group night in and night out and they are all talking to each other and all know their rolls for that group and the area they are fighting.
RvR is not imbalanced, it is the level at which people are committed to being successful in RvR which is imbalanced.
Oh, and the reason everyone thought rvr was so great "back in the day," was because everyone was pretty much on even ground. There were no templates, initially no RAs, no artifacts, no CLs or MLs, no super uber dropped gear, there was nothing. Everyone was in throwaway gear by todays standards and had no RAs. It was a fun free for all that felt like a huge deathmatch.
The OP discussion about DAoC is one of the least correct that I've seen in a long time.
been playing this game 5+ yrs there is no such thing as skill.Take off the superduper rare drops and perfect template and rr11 and go at it with someone who has all that and tell me how you are gonna skillfully beat them?Buffs,RR's,and items= so called skill.A tank is rr2 in drop gear the enemy tank is rr11 all decked out tank #1 hits for 150 tank#2 hits for 500 did he SKILLFULLY click his mouse button or did he have better buffs,rr's,and items? You decide. Game is dying server populations dont lie
You can cry if you dont like it but the facts are da facts 
As far as the game dying, populations are down, but not out. All the main clusters are running with about 1200 people on a regular basis, although weak, is still enough to have an enjoyable experience. I honestly don't expect the game to start feeling empty for quite some time. In reality, the population on DAOC feels about the same as EQ2 and many other games out there other than WoW and EVE (due to 1 server).
Well i played most big mmo names out there including daoc.Iplayed daoc after it was released for about a year or so.I have to say out ofall the games this one for me was the best implemented pvp there was.I had fun...had the feeling we could accomplish something and had a nice group impact with it.We did small roaming groups and bigger ones.Offcourse like i said i did it only the first year or so so what happened afterwards is beyond me .Only 2 gamescameclose to daoc pvp for me...shadowbane because it had full pvp and eve online because of it's deathpernalty.Out of these 3 i'd place eve at 1st spot then DAOC and last shadwobane.
Shadowbane is 100X better than DAOC + its free.
If you don't want to PvP, you can always play on Gaheris.
If you don't want to PvP nor Raid, then you better switch game.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Purely pvp seen ... yeah one could think that ....if you take graphix /content/pve and all with it shadowbane in myopinion would never be better then daoc.But again purely looking on pvp yeah one could think that , but then you also need to look at the daocpvp server vs shadowbane.
I play on my lvl 50 vamp on pellinor alot now thaere lot of good fight i get in i do not know if you talking about bg or big boy rvr but pvp is not worst WOW i think is so gay the pvp Guild Wars have good pvp sometimes i guess .