Much of the world lives by capitalism. If enough people are willing to buy your product then you can make money out of it. If you feel a product is too expensive to 'rent' then you aren't forced to pay for it, just don't 'rent' it.
I get the feeling that this is a case of 'I want it, but I want it cheaper, so make it cheaper!'. As long as people are willing to pay the price then they'll charge the most they can for it. I'm of the belief that MMO executives are probably upset that the base price for MMOs wasn't set at $20-$25 dollars in the first place.
This isn't a flame, but I can't agree with what you say. If you can sell something for alot of money, do so. That's the way many countries work. Somehow I doubt you'd be complaining if you were typing at the best of the best PC setups, being fanned by 10 gorgeous girls/boys (whatever your taste is I guess) and knowing that your financial needs are settled for the rest of your life.
Cancel your subscription if it's too expensive. If enough people do it, they'll drop the price to hold on to (and possible regain) their customers - that's what we call 'retention'.
I understand, what you saying. I do not even have a subscription to WoW and never have had one. I have lots of friends that do though. I'm just saying that I feel like there lying to you. In interviews and such they say that they need the monthly subscription, and I do not believe that to be true; therefore, its not just the matter of money...it's the matter of being lyed to.
Why?! Why do people pay to go to a gym! I mean you can do it all for free at home! Gyms are ripping you off! They are lying to you.
See what I did there?
Why?! Why do people pay to watch TV cable? I mean you can do it all for free with an antenna! Cable companies are ripping you off! they are lying to you
Oops, I did it again
Why?! Why do people pay for bottled water? I mean you could fill up a bottle yourself for free! Bottled water companies are ripping you off! They are lying to you.
Boy this game is fun. How many things can be done for free, yet people pay for Services that offer the same/better?
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Well for the Pay to Play part. Not all people Pay to play. I happen to Pay to play so I have access to a wider array of stuff that F2P doesn't offer
As for the Pay to Play, Free to play are not always polished. I've seen some TERRIBLE Free to Play MMOs
As for the Pay to Play......I have the money to spend on any entertainment that I feel justifies my business. Just because it's free doesn't mean I'm going to get quality.
Oh, see did it again...took your logic and turned it around
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
If you want quality entertainement in life you'll have to pay for it most of the time, same goes for mmorpg's it costs a lot of money to create such a game, to maintain it, extend it etc. I agree on the wow part, unlike most other mmorpg's I think the amount of extension/support vs profit isn't balanced at all, however the price vs entertainent value is fairly balanced imho.
Ofcourse you can avoid costs, playing on private servers instead of official ones, or for instance workout at home instead of in a gym.
My experience is that the paid services happen to be superior over the free ones, for instance working out in the gym has increased my physical state far more than it was while I used to train at home, playing on a paid mmorpg server instead of a free private server makes sure you keep that character instead of losing it because a private server suddenly shuts down (after you spend a year developing a character)
I understand, what you saying. I do not even have a subscription to WoW and never have had one. I have lots of friends that do though. I'm just saying that I feel like there lying to you. In interviews and such they say that they need the monthly subscription, and I do not believe that to be true; therefore, its not just the matter of money...it's the matter of being lyed to.
UHm we should introduce the concept of Shareholders (Unless this is a private owned company I'll apologise ). They all need a return on their investments through good and bad times so you are not being lied to they have commitments and need to meet. Last post on this thread as it really is a wind up and you seem to be taking no notice of any of the good arguments posted here so whats the point.
Honourable of you to take a stance because you believe you have been lied to, sadly I feel sorry for you in all your young gloriedom. you haven't got a clue...
I wonder how many millions may be owed within the overall organisation what investment commitments they have i'd be interested in seeing the books of this org for the last 10 years, but I guess you have all this information else you wouldn't be so quick to accuse.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Yeah I know what your saying...though the whole workout thing doesnt work right. If you know how to work out than you can work out at home just as good as at the gym...but thats a whole nother matter.
Cover charge at a bar 10 each time - drinks , 7-12 each
Game fee 15 a month
What other form of entertainment is so well priced... my ISP charges over twice the price just to access the net, let alone build me a game to play on it.
Not only that but the employees probably aren't just hired when a patch needs to be made, I'm sure these ppl need full- time jobs. Just because you don't see new content does not mean someone is not there.
Yeah I know what your saying...though the whole workout thing doesnt work right. If you know how to work out than you can work out at home just as good as at the gym...but thats a whole nother matter.
*slightly offtopic* Thats what I thought as well when I started training like 10 years ago, but it depends on what your goal is ofcourse in my case training @ home isnt an option unless I get really rich and can buy my own gym @ home :P
@ Isane
I do think Blizzard and their share holders have got more money out of the game then they invested in it, so in a way they dont "need" the money or the amount of profit they gain right now, however its only natural they do.
Actually...no thats not really how Perfect world makes there money. They only sell things in the item mall that are not important in game. They sell things like faster mounts....and materials.....but they dont sell better armor or weapons. They do not sell anything that will give others a big advantage like other Free mmos. They get a lot of there money from sponsers and advertisements.
Originally posted by Nunez1212 I know, i'm just saying this for some people. Beleive it or not, there are A LOT of people that argue the point that they need all this money. Even though its quite obvious that they do not.
Because you've seen all of Blizzard's internal accounting and you know exactly how much it costs them, right?
A) It's probably costs more than you think and things aren't worth what they cost to produce, they're worth what people are willing to pay for them. People, obviously, are willing to pay WoW subscription fees; one must assume these people find it worth it. If you don't, don't pay it. It's that simple.
... Thats $15 dollars a month, and that means they make just about $1 billion, 530 million dollars. Now correct me if I"m wrong but.....thats crazy. I know that they need money for servers, bandwith, employees and for new content. Though thats just about 1.5 billion dollars there making per year! They definitly do not need that much money.
Nunez, meet capitolism. Capitolism, meet Nunez.
What's wrong with making a product (a game in this case) so well that you get rich of its sales? Isn't that the "American Dream"?
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
I have to wonder about all the people that don't understand the point of view of the op. What would have they said if this was about soe and swg instead of wow?
OMG, so what, we're at like ten pages now, and of what?? I read until I think page 7 and after that I've just been skimming, it's pretty straight down the middle here between people saying "Making an MMO can't be that expensive, all that money must be going to make the staff rich."
And then we have the other guys saying "well that's capatalism so get used to it" or "Making an MMO is more expensive than you think so the subscription fees are fare."
I think it's pretty obvious that nobody here (myself included) has ever worked on an MMO and so this whole discussion has gotten pretty pointless...and repetitive. Nobody here "really" knows what they're talking about so we just end up with the same arguments being repeated over and over with no real numbers or knowledge. Perhaps there are enough expenses that the staff are not getting rich but only coming out average or perhaps they are making way more money than they need but the fact is gaming is a relatively cheap form of entertainment when compared to other things like going out to see a movie. So regardless of where all our subscription fees are going there are a lot of people paying them so until people stop paying them companies like Blizzard have no reason to switch to f2p.
Is it capatalism or is it just expneses we don't know about?? It doesn't really mater because it doesn't cost us that much for what we get. Game companies have no reason to drop their subscription rates and get an item mall as long as we're still willing to pay what they want.
-Snowman <- this name was taken.....but I like it more
I know I might get flamed for this by others, but please do not. I'm not trying to be stupid here or anything. I just dont understand...I mean. World of Warcraft has just about 8.5 millions players now. Thats $15 dollars a month, and that means they make just about $1 billion, 530 million dollars. Now correct me if I"m wrong but.....thats crazy.
When I played WOW, te game actually saved me money. Yes, it's true. Before WOW I would buy a game at least once per week for PC or Xbox. Once I started WOW I didn't buy another game for two years That was unbelievable.I had never had a game that held my interest longer than a month before lt alone years....
he makes a good post and did not flame the OP. I wish we had more intelligent posters like you here on mmorpg.com
I can see the OPs complaint but this post reminded me that MMOs do save us money. lately ive been playing a ton of console games. Last month I spent $120 for 1 xbox 360 title, used PS2 title, and a strategy guide for the title.
This month I spent $60 on The Darkness
A few months ago spent $400 on xbox 360 + $50 on xbox live + $120 for two xbox 360 games I recall
so yeah, MMOs are saving you guys a ton of money. They actually say games like WoW hurt the game industry as a whole. now gamers are sticking to game titles for long term and not buying regular PC titles. I think maybe console market has picked back up though since more and more gamers like me get kinda weary of MMOs and want to try new things here and there
Originally posted by Welles I have to wonder about all the people that don't understand the point of view of the op. What would have they said if this was about soe and swg instead of wow?
The exact same thing: nobody's holding a gun to anybody's head. If people find the game worth the price, they pay it. If they don't, they don't. The only difference is that apparently a lot fewer people find SW:G worth the price.
Comments
Much of the world lives by capitalism. If enough people are willing to buy your product then you can make money out of it. If you feel a product is too expensive to 'rent' then you aren't forced to pay for it, just don't 'rent' it.
I get the feeling that this is a case of 'I want it, but I want it cheaper, so make it cheaper!'. As long as people are willing to pay the price then they'll charge the most they can for it. I'm of the belief that MMO executives are probably upset that the base price for MMOs wasn't set at $20-$25 dollars in the first place.
This isn't a flame, but I can't agree with what you say. If you can sell something for alot of money, do so. That's the way many countries work. Somehow I doubt you'd be complaining if you were typing at the best of the best PC setups, being fanned by 10 gorgeous girls/boys (whatever your taste is I guess) and knowing that your financial needs are settled for the rest of your life.
Cancel your subscription if it's too expensive. If enough people do it, they'll drop the price to hold on to (and possible regain) their customers - that's what we call 'retention'.
I understand, what you saying. I do not even have a subscription to WoW and never have had one. I have lots of friends that do though. I'm just saying that I feel like there lying to you. In interviews and such they say that they need the monthly subscription, and I do not believe that to be true; therefore, its not just the matter of money...it's the matter of being lyed to.
accidental post
Why?! Why do people pay to go to a gym! I mean you can do it all for free at home! Gyms are ripping you off! They are lying to you.
See what I did there?
Why?! Why do people pay to watch TV cable? I mean you can do it all for free with an antenna! Cable companies are ripping you off! they are lying to you
Oops, I did it again
Why?! Why do people pay for bottled water? I mean you could fill up a bottle yourself for free! Bottled water companies are ripping you off! They are lying to you.
Boy this game is fun. How many things can be done for free, yet people pay for Services that offer the same/better?
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Well, for the gym part. Not all people go to the gym...I happen to SAVE money and work out at home.
As for bottled water, tap water isnt as clean. I've seen BLACK tap water.
As for the cable.......I live where it rains all the time. Atenna wouldnt work well for me.
So you cant same its the same.....its totally different. You cant drink tap water some times. You could alwasy play a f2p game.
Well for the Pay to Play part. Not all people Pay to play. I happen to Pay to play so I have access to a wider array of stuff that F2P doesn't offer
As for the Pay to Play, Free to play are not always polished. I've seen some TERRIBLE Free to Play MMOs
As for the Pay to Play......I have the money to spend on any entertainment that I feel justifies my business. Just because it's free doesn't mean I'm going to get quality.
Oh, see did it again...took your logic and turned it around
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
If you want quality entertainement in life you'll have to pay for it most of the time, same goes for mmorpg's it costs a lot of money to create such a game, to maintain it, extend it etc. I agree on the wow part, unlike most other mmorpg's I think the amount of extension/support vs profit isn't balanced at all, however the price vs entertainent value is fairly balanced imho.
Ofcourse you can avoid costs, playing on private servers instead of official ones, or for instance workout at home instead of in a gym.
My experience is that the paid services happen to be superior over the free ones, for instance working out in the gym has increased my physical state far more than it was while I used to train at home, playing on a paid mmorpg server instead of a free private server makes sure you keep that character instead of losing it because a private server suddenly shuts down (after you spend a year developing a character)
UHm we should introduce the concept of Shareholders (Unless this is a private owned company I'll apologise ). They all need a return on their investments through good and bad times so you are not being lied to they have commitments and need to meet. Last post on this thread as it really is a wind up and you seem to be taking no notice of any of the good arguments posted here so whats the point.
Honourable of you to take a stance because you believe you have been lied to, sadly I feel sorry for you in all your young gloriedom. you haven't got a clue...
I wonder how many millions may be owed within the overall organisation what investment commitments they have i'd be interested in seeing the books of this org for the last 10 years, but I guess you have all this information else you wouldn't be so quick to accuse.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Yeah I know what your saying...though the whole workout thing doesnt work right. If you know how to work out than you can work out at home just as good as at the gym...but thats a whole nother matter.
Look at it this way
Cable Internet 45 a month
Cable TV 50 a month
Electricity 70 a month
Gas 40 a month
Water 25 a month
Insurance 200 a month
Rent 400+ a month
One good dinner for 2 - 60 each time
Cover charge at a bar 10 each time - drinks , 7-12 each
Game fee 15 a month
What other form of entertainment is so well priced... my ISP charges over twice the price just to access the net, let alone build me a game to play on it.
Not only that but the employees probably aren't just hired when a patch needs to be made, I'm sure these ppl need full- time jobs. Just because you don't see new content does not mean someone is not there.
The fees are reasonable.
the people at perfect world sell items instead of having monthly fees. That doesn't work too well on the west.
@ Isane
I do think Blizzard and their share holders have got more money out of the game then they invested in it, so in a way they dont "need" the money or the amount of profit they gain right now, however its only natural they do.
Actually...no thats not really how Perfect world makes there money. They only sell things in the item mall that are not important in game. They sell things like faster mounts....and materials.....but they dont sell better armor or weapons. They do not sell anything that will give others a big advantage like other Free mmos. They get a lot of there money from sponsers and advertisements.
Because you've seen all of Blizzard's internal accounting and you know exactly how much it costs them, right?
A) It's probably costs more than you think and
things aren't worth what they cost to produce, they're worth what people are willing to pay for them. People, obviously, are willing to pay WoW subscription fees; one must assume these people find it worth it. If you don't, don't pay it. It's that simple.
Chris Mattern
What's wrong with making a product (a game in this case) so well that you get rich of its sales? Isn't that the "American Dream"?
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
They don't need all that money but they certainly want it and you are willing to pay them it so they will charge it.
I have to wonder about all the people that don't understand the point of view of the op. What would have they said if this was about soe and swg instead of wow?
OMG, so what, we're at like ten pages now, and of what?? I read until I think page 7 and after that I've just been skimming, it's pretty straight down the middle here between people saying "Making an MMO can't be that expensive, all that money must be going to make the staff rich."
And then we have the other guys saying "well that's capatalism so get used to it" or "Making an MMO is more expensive than you think so the subscription fees are fare."
I think it's pretty obvious that nobody here (myself included) has ever worked on an MMO and so this whole discussion has gotten pretty pointless...and repetitive. Nobody here "really" knows what they're talking about so we just end up with the same arguments being repeated over and over with no real numbers or knowledge. Perhaps there are enough expenses that the staff are not getting rich but only coming out average or perhaps they are making way more money than they need but the fact is gaming is a relatively cheap form of entertainment when compared to other things like going out to see a movie. So regardless of where all our subscription fees are going there are a lot of people paying them so until people stop paying them companies like Blizzard have no reason to switch to f2p.
Is it capatalism or is it just expneses we don't know about?? It doesn't really mater because it doesn't cost us that much for what we get. Game companies have no reason to drop their subscription rates and get an item mall as long as we're still willing to pay what they want.
-Snowman <- this name was taken.....but I like it more
When I played WOW, te game actually saved me money. Yes, it's true. Before WOW I would buy a game at least once per week for PC or Xbox. Once I started WOW I didn't buy another game for two years
he makes a good post and did not flame the OP. I wish we had more intelligent posters like you here on mmorpg.com
I can see the OPs complaint but this post reminded me that MMOs do save us money. lately ive been playing a ton of console games. Last month I spent $120 for 1 xbox 360 title, used PS2 title, and a strategy guide for the title.
This month I spent $60 on The Darkness
A few months ago spent $400 on xbox 360 + $50 on xbox live + $120 for two xbox 360 games I recall
so yeah, MMOs are saving you guys a ton of money. They actually say games like WoW hurt the game industry as a whole. now gamers are sticking to game titles for long term and not buying regular PC titles. I think maybe console market has picked back up though since more and more gamers like me get kinda weary of MMOs and want to try new things here and there
The exact same thing: nobody's holding a gun to anybody's head. If people find the game worth the price, they pay it. If they don't, they don't. The only difference is that apparently a lot fewer people find SW:G worth the price.
Chris Mattern
If you can afford an internet connection, a computer, and electricity - you can surely afford $15 a month.