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Has PVP ruined it for PVE?
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[Deleted User]
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players who dont like raiding or are not in an elite guild are missing out on great gear too dont you think..not to mention loads of content....so i think the pvp players deserve equal gear to raiding players..its only fair as both players pay the same subscription fee each month...i quit wow because all it has is raiding or pointless instance pvp..and people who raid do better in pvp because their gear is way more powerful than pvp gear..so your point is totally wrong...pve is a waste of brain cells.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Well, I used to play the PVE game, got through AQ 40 and quit just before TBC came out. My son had more time so his guild was up to the four horseman in Naxx when he got tired of the long fights and quit for a bit. He went back when TBC came out, leveled to 70...got half way through Kara and decided that PVE raiding was no longer what he wanted to do.
So he proceeded to gear out a series of BG twinks, he has pretty much one for most classes across the 29-49 categories...and now spends all of his time either fighting in the BG's or running PVE to get more gear for his twinks.
In both our cases, the PVE ruined itself, wasn't the PVP that caused the fall. At least now PVP offers players an alternate path to decent gear w/o having to PVE raid endlessly.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
General questing never yielded the best pve gear - you get that from instance runs or instance related quests. In one evening at level 19 it's possible to grind a battleground, get 20-30 tokens and pick up a nice blue item. But also in one evening at level 19, it's possible to run the deadmines twice and pick up a nice blue. So how is that uneven?Interestingly, at max level, PvE gear is considerably superior to a lot of the battleground gear. Even though it takes a lot of effort to accumulate enough honour to buy the top battleground gear.
As do players with no interest in PvE instances, rep grinding or crafting. Your point?
True to an extent - but all classes are still playable in both pvp and pve. Often people will complain about their classes and nerfs when the actual problem is their own incompetent noobishness. Like the druid I heard the over day complaining that druids are really crap in WSG. LOL.
An interesting theory. I think it was just because it cost them very little effort to do, and was yet another feature they could use to sell the expansion.
But is that impact bad? If anything PvP creates more demand in the economy, including for crafted and PvE goods, since serious PvP'rs like to be relatively well equipped for their level, and will go to extra lengths to achieve this. For example I have a friend who mined several hundred gold pieces worth of iron and mithril so she could fully equip her warrior for 40-49.
Obligatory flame: Quite whining - PvE gear is more than good enough to play the PvE game given a modicum of skill.
If you can't cope, look in the mirror and quit blaming other people.
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WoW is a pve based game no doubt. As far as PvP screwing PvE I personally found it to be the opposite. I mostly focus on PvP because I find killing other players more fun than mobs(just my opinion not flaming pve focused players). Me and 3 other players were a very closeknit group and just wanted to focus on PvP. From lvl 1-60 now 1-70 we had a blast we found a lot of world pvp because of shared quests and the like. At max level the game completely changes. You find that you can't compete on a fair basis with the raiders because of gear difference. So now you need to get good gear. At that time there were two choices rank up in PvP or raid. For pvp at that time on my server you were talking about a 10hr a day commitment nonstop pvp to reach the highest rank for about 3 months straight. You could'nt take a break because you would lose rank and make all the effort you had put in worthless.I couldn't invest that much time everyday. So i got to rank 10 and stopped. What was I left with thats right PvE. So now I have to PvE even though I was really only interested in PvP. Even if you did manage to get to max rank in PvP you still had to raid to get some of the best items that don't come with the pvp set. Honestly after getting my tier 2. I still consider the PvP to be the bigger commitment. Then they change the rules on pvp from ranking to point bases effectively making people be able to get the best pvp gear at the time in a month of casual play. A good change but a big slap in the face to all the people that ranked up. I lost a lot of good freinds when they made that change. Then comes TBC making all the raiding everyone did useless. A slap in the face to the PvE crowd. In the end me and my friends ended up making a raiding a guild because the PvP gear just wasn't as good as the PvE gear. So we ended up playing 90% PvE so we could experience 10% PvP. At the very end we just got tired of the hamster wheel like most people do. So let me ask you do you have to PvP to be good at PvE? NO! Do you have to PvE nonstop to be good at PvP? YES!
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
yes pvp has ruined it for pve.
The population is halved between alliance and horde (or more then half or whatever). So that cuts down on the people I can pve with.
The battlegrounds poison pve servers with people that only want to pvp. That further reduces the amount of people i can pve with.
pvp ruined pve long before reward changes and honor system change and arenas
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if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
yeah gladiators gear is easy mode epix now >_>
How you choose to play the game is up to you, and is not an inherent problem in the game. Nonetheless the best PvE gear is associated with instances (or at high level raids), either as drops or quest rewards, and is comparable to the best PvP gear.
Having demand is bad for the economy? Not sure what crazy theory of economics that is!
I'm not a fan of twinking, so if you want to object to that then go ahead. Just don't object to pvp as a whole.
And btw - it's still perfectly possible to pvp with non-twinked characters even at the worst twinking category (10-19). I've recently picked up a whole load of pvp rewards with a non-twinked 19 shaman. Got a fair number of kills and flag captures/returns too.
Yes - it's easy if you know the market. For example I found that if I picked the right times my blacksmith could sell green iron helms at 4gp each, a reasonable profit. I suspect most of my customers were pvprs in the 20-29 category.
Many other items sell well to PvPr's - for example alchemists can make good money from haste and free action potions.
The pvp trinket is well-named - it's far more useful in pvp than in pve! So missing out on it isn't really such a hardship.
And yes - some pvp items are easier to get than pve equivalents. But the same holds true in reverse - e.g. it's possible to pick up a "Seal of Wrynn" from PvE quests several levels earlier than comparable PvP items.
And items in many slots aren't even available through PvP before level 60.
It seems to me that you are claiming giving PvPr's any sort of reward apparently ruins the PvE game. Why? Just because someone else has a nice "legionarre sword", why does that stop you having fun? Is the problem your personal jealousy rather than the game itself?
This is starting to get funny. How does food and drink that only works in battlegrounds do anything to "ruin" the PvE game. If these people weren't PvPing then they wouldn't need to eat and drink in battlegrounds, and you would still not have any market for your cooked food. You really aren't making your case very well!
Those PvPrs who want to be good play with reasonable gear but untwinked. Twinking is easy-mode pvp for losers who can't win any other way. It makes battles so one sided that skills atrophy.But twinkers aren't the only sort of PvPr's, and you still haven't explained why "PvP ruins the PvE game".
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Well, instead of directly arguing with anyone, I'll just share my opinion too. Since that seems to be what was originally asked. Opinions - not critique.
I think it all works out. Blizzard has provided plenty of options to progress and enjoy the game - much more than pretty much any other MMO on the market. And while I desperately seek something besides WoW to play - most MMO's fall short, or attempt to be so 'unique' that they end up bogging things down with failed attempts at innovation.
But, back to WoW, the only problems I've ever seen involve the community that WoW attracts. Because its the sociopathic mentality that seems to fuel all this rage, hatred, distaste and uncontentness. For instance?
PvE requires new zones and/or dungeons or it grows stagnant. One thing Blizzard could do is introduce new zones - especially some non-end-game zones. Of course, they don't, because they are too busy desperately trying to cater to End-game starved players.
PvP requires new maps, objectives, and conditions that cater to the different tastes of PvP. Be that World PvP, Battlegrounds, or Arena.
However... the true issue revolves around skill and gear - as always. And the reason for this is because the average player -EXPECTS- to not have to rely on anyone to do anything, 90% of the time. Back in the day, when you played an MMO, you generally needed to group with others in order to get decent XP, decent loot/GP, and to accomplish most tasks.
WoW, on the other hand, you just need a group to accomplish very specific quests or dungeons. You can solo all the way to 70 much faster than any other game. Why is this a bad thing? Well, I don't want to say MMO's are -ABOUT- being social and grouping and helping one another to enjoy a game experience. However - people of come to 'expect' that they can solo anything -but- a quest that says group/dungeon. And how do you solo them? Gear and Skill. If you are lacking in skill - you can compensate that for gear. And where does the good gear come from? Dungeons and PvP. So what's the point here...?
You end up with a lot of kids who -need- dungeon/PvP gear in order to solo everything - or to feel they are worth a damn in PvP. So, as usual, we have these arguments about PvE vs PvP. Is PvE worth a damn? Is PvP worth a damn? What is Blizzard doing wrong? How is Blizzard ruining the game?
When its really just a case of: Sorry kid, your brain is slow and/or your emotional state is too volatile that you simply cannot handle this game. Your skill level can't handle this game. So whine about gear and go on a flampage.
</tangent>
Honestly I didn't read any of the other posts but here's my 2 cents.
Before battlegrounds finding a group for an Instance was easy. There was always 4-5 stocks/maraudin/etc groups going, so you knew if you waited you'd find a group with in the next 30 mins.
But once they introduced bgs everyone did that and made doing anything other than solo a chore not worth doing. So PvP ruined the adventuring in WoW.
You mean before battlegrounds, or before the honour system changes?
Anyway - it sounds to me if you are suffering from "Mature server syndrome" - most of the servers population is at max level so it's hard to find groups for mid-level instances. There simply aren't enough healers/tanks etc in the right level range to make it possible for 4-5 groups to visit an instance at the same time - especially considering some potential recruits may have other time commitments or just not be in the mood for instancing.
I seem to remember having the same problem a year ago, getting groups for places such as RFD. Currently with my hunter I'm having problems trying to get a group for Mana Tombs - although for some reason Underbog groups seem quite common (been there 3 times).
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거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
For someone with such disdain for debater's, you seem to adopt several of their more loathsome tactics quite readily.
You completely ignore the central point I was making - that there are simply not as many people at the relevant levels as there once were, and you also seem quite eager to put words into my mouth that I never said - i.e. I never said that the healers and tanks were playing battlegrounds - if you actually went to a low level BG you would find it is full of rogues and hunters!
I ignored your evidence regarding how PvP affects PvE becuase it is so scant. It relies on a quote taking from a magazine I don't possess, and hence I have no way of verifying whether or not it has been taken out of context.
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PvE ruined itself. Raiding to constantly better your equipment becomes boring after some times. As a former EQ player, i got bored after my 1st MC raid... i felt like i was doing it all over again, climbing the DKP ladder, crossing finger that class-specific loot would drop, and getting angry at people who played more than me and had more DKP...
I don't want to raid anymore, it's frustrating, and east up too much of your time spent sitting on your arse or watching the same HP bar for too long.
PvP is far more interesting, even if it's as repetitive. At least you are constantly in the action without downtime and you're not confronted to a scripted AI whom you can predict every move from.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
PvP is much more fun than PvE with PvP you have no idea where your enemy is what they will do or if they know where you are. Its much more fun because then enemy thinks has more powers and can actually move instead of sitting in one spot waiting for someone to get close. if all you had was PvE it'd get boring. I mean i get most of the armor and items i use from Battlegrounds.
Tired of these games where everyone is stronger than you? Do you complain to everyone that almost everything can kill you? well then...I hate you