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Classes unbalanced?
Djupfryst
Member Posts: 2
Hey guys!
Well, Since WAR will be a very PvP concentrated game, won't there be a big unbalance between healers/dps? And yes, i know Mythic has said that every class will be able to defend themselves, even the healers, but surely not the extent of the real DPSers? I've thought about this for quite some time now. What do you think? Maybe it's not a big issue? 
PS: I'M SO PSYKED ABOUT THIS GAME!!
Sorry for my bad writing and english, I'm from Sweden!!
70 mage @ Kazzak
70 Priest @ Kazzak
20 champion @ LOTRO
Comments
Like in every game there will be some solo pvp differences but the way they have this being setup it seems like they are looking for much larger scale battles, so yes a healer can defend himself and get out of harms way but wont have the attack power of a dual wielding midget running around. I think its more balance with your comparrison class. If a healer could dps the same as a DD whats the point of playing anything but a healer? They just really need to make sure the balance is my Race so one race doesnt have the uber 1 hit I win button and if they do, the other races need one as well; although I hope none do! They seem to know what they are doing though I dont see this being the same type of problem as it was in other games.
Yes. It's inherent in the system. Given the basic archetypes of the classes, it would be inherent that a primary damage dealing class would do more damage than a healing oriented class would do, even though the magic users in WAR are combat oriented. Think of it in terms of training. A knight trains with martial weapons constantly. A warrior priest must divide his time between combat training and studying the use and application of spells. Thus the knight would be a more effective melee fighter, but the priest has divine magic at his disposal.
Make sense?
Yep, that's a good way of looking at it. Thanks
Has Warhammer spoken to their position on what is "class balance"? There is more than one way to do it. You can make it where every class, all else being equal, can kill any other class. Or you can make a rock, paper, scissors system where each class does particularly well against some other classes but is more vulnerable to others (you can do that with races too). Or you can do it to where you have choices in the design/gearing of your character to where you can make your avatar fairly competitive against anyone, or make it excel in certain situations. And then there is the pve/pvp tradoff system where some classes are weaker in pvp but stronger in pve, or vice versa. And further still, in some games characters do one thing in pvp and another in pve, or simply don't perform quite the same in both. No clue on my part as to their intent.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
They have said that the shaman will be able to lower its healing power to increase its damage. Whether or not this is the case for all healing classes i don't know. But being able to heal at the cost of less damage does not mean a gimped class, you CAN always heal yourself.
1v1 classes will never be balanced, simply because all you need to do to make it more "balanced" is get a friend
I am sure they will balance it enaugh so that there isn't one class or one arch type that kills everyone else, but I wouldn't look at a perfect balance.
Group pvp on the other hand should be more balanced, but we'll see how it goes during beta/live.
The trick is to not try to balance a game too much. This causes games to die, look at SWG, R.I.P.
from what i've read each class can deal dmg. 1v1 yes a DPS will out dmg one of the 'support/healer' classes. However, the impression i'm getting is that TACTICS will play a large roll in combat. So if dps choppa just spam attacks and runepriest thinks and uses tacics....possible (hopefully) choppa should get pwnd.
We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
The healer heals and does dps while the melee guy can't heal himself and slowly dies.
Not much tactics to that
http://www.greycouncil.org/
I'm in the beta and trust me, what Mythic said about healers being able to defend themselves is true.
Thats a good thing- a cleric was never meant to be the type of cleric you see in alot of online games these days(DAoC) where they only stand in the back and heal. A real cleric (monks included)- any healer type should be able to defend themselves while running around a battle healing and tending to their injured party. If someone wants a "fluffer" they need to make a new name for it and let them be spec'd for back of the line healing but it seems that they may be on the right track in this game with healer types- don't NERF the healers in this game EAM!!!!
They've told us that there are the general 'class' abilities, 'morale' abilities, and (perhaps i'm remembering wrong) tactics based abilites.
It's using these 3 types of abilities together effectively rather than just 'spamming' 1 or 2 attacks again and again.
for example the goblin shaman can stand back and heal..sure thing. will he heal effectively...nope. his best heals come after he bashes some heads/throws some bad mojo on the enemy. Then his heals gain MUCH more power.
Dwarf runepriest. can he lay healing runes...yup. is he gonna stand in the back and lay runes on folks...ya, no he's not. His advantage comes from placing the runes in ADVANCE. All the spells are in place already. So when the fighting starts he can focus on crushing skulls rather than 'healing'.
We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
They are basing it around group PvP. I doubt solo will be balanced much.
Since healers need to DPS in order to heal I wouldn't worry as much about raw healing output, but as in most cases I imagine HPS will be higher then DPS because it is reactive rather then proavtice activity.
They may have other utilities to help them out. The Warrior Priest looks pretty tough, tougher than the bright wizard. Perhaps they'll all have increased survivability to balance it out.
At the risk of sounding like a tabletop evangelist, I see no problem with a healer class having a good survivability rate.
As Ravenmoon pointed out earlier, the idea of the weak, combat ineffective healer is a modern MMORPG problem. The source materials support strong, combat ready healers. In a real time game, such as a MMORPG, it is true that the healer classes have to sacrifice the joy of smashing skulls in order to spam heals to their beleaguered party members, but in the turn based sources for these games such is not the case. At least not all of the time.
The cleric we see presented in the WAR game (I've no beta experience, I am drawing this from the website notes and descriptions) is not the weak cleric of other games, but the righteous priests of Sigmar, whose very symbol is the hammer. If the WAR game is to be successful the developers will no doubt have to address the issues that are causing the most concern with the players, but not to the extent that WAR becomes a clone of other MMORPGs or loses the heart of its concept, which is WARHAMMER.
Across various medium we have seen WARHAMMER grow and develop, but the core concept has reached a point where the fans (hardcore and otherwise) recognize it immediately upon sight. Given the huge amount of available character archetypes per faction from which the developers have to draw their class choices, it seems that the Warrior Priest is meant to be a soldier of the Cult of Sigmar. These are no mere vicars spreading the word of their god through humility and preaching, these are zealot defenders of their faith who enforce the will of their god (a god that they consider supreme) with hammer and fury. This is the essence of WARHAMMER from tabletop to novel to video game. Should it be any different in WAR? Is not the very name of the game an indication of the ultimate point of the whole? While you might read a novel about a less than combat ready cleric having an adventure, you do not field such units into your army for battle. Battle is what WARHAMMER is about from tabletop up. The class is described as "Warrior" priest, not "Missionary of Sigmar" and the purpose of a warrior is war. I see no problems whatsoever in having a cleric class that can beat arse. Balance will always be a problem in MMORPGs. Players do not all spec characters the same way nor do they have the same level of skill or style of play. I say that it is about time that we saw a priest that was able to defend the faith rather than playing cheerleader for the tanks.
This situation calls for a judicious application of elemental psychology and extreme violence