To the death it will be... I have a sneaking suspicion that tanks of all races are going to be very popular in WAR When the devs told us that anything you learn to be a tank will be useful in PVP, they opened the floodgates to all tank guilds
I don't consider kiting to be running away. Keeping space because you are ranged or to get a heal off is different than running from battle. Put it this way if the guy trying to keep up with you turns around do you keep running or turn around to keep him in range?
I'll run around searching for a battle, then when I'm almost dead, I'll "Eeeek!!!" (gotta love the Greenskin skill names ), and let everyone around me fly 20 feet, me inclusive.
THat gives me a 40 feet buffer to run away behind a big strong Black Orc, where I heal up, and back into battle I go
No actually, to the death. But not because I am hardcore or anything, just because I don't tend to pay attention to my own life meter. And I keep thinking I can knock off that last little percentage as I go down. Sad really.
This situation calls for a judicious application of elemental psychology and extreme violence
Hit and run for me. It would be cool if there was an ability that you can use once in a group fight where you /push your mate into an incoming enemy so you buy time to escape
Hit and run for me. It would be cool if there was an ability that you can use once in a group fight where you /push your mate into an incoming enemy so you buy time to escape
Well, there is, sortof, depending on what Class you play.
For example the Goblin Shaman has an ability called "Eeeek!", which knocks you and everyone around you back by 20 yards. Kinda like a damage-less explosion 1 feet in front of you.
Or the Black Orc can throw enemies and allies around, initially supposed to throw your Healer behind you, but if you run away from the enemy, you should be able to throw some poor guy right in the middle of those who chase you
I think part of being good at PvP is knowing how many people you can kill without dying. Not running in killing and killing until you die. I usually kill as many people as I can and run at the very last second before I am killed. I don't think thats being a coward, being a coward is running the second you realize your even-numbered or out-numbered.
Since I don't PvP just for the fun of besting another person, I am more preocupied with the objective, I don't care about having the highest kill count, in fact if I can accomplish goals, like capturing something , with minimal conflict then all the better.
I like to think of myself as a practical fighter and thus effective, I don't run in when out numbered, I fall back and wait for support, and don't engauge enemies unless I am fairly certain my group can win, getting yourself killed isn't very useful, especially in PvP with a goal. I prefer to be more covert, and I have done my fair share of hiding from big groups and picking off single targets. If I can win by intimadation, meaning they retreat because they are outnumbered, then great, there is no need to pursue them. I think coordination is key, running around by yourself isn't very effective, teammates need to know where each other are and where the enemy is, this is the way you can surround and route the enemy. Deception is important, letting the enemy think there is a weak spot in your lines, or that the path is a safe escape route, only to surprise them with hidden troops, it keeps their eyes on one end of your army, while the other end swoops in around them.
But above all I am concerned with accomplishing PvP goals, if there are any, and keeping other players in my group alive.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
This poll is surprising. Most of the battles I've been in have many people standing back while only a few people push forward. If the other side falls back far enough then whoever is left is cut off and cut up. I am a pusher...leap into battle; cause as much trouble as i can for the enemies around me; then hope I get support or I'm the one cut off and cut up
So far the Black Orc seems to match my PvP fighting style plus i like the idea spiky bits all over my gear.
This poll shows that we are gonna stand and fight...a previous poll showed that most people are gonna play a Black Orc.
Da Orcz is gonna crush dem dwarfs - Waagh!
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
__________________________________________________________________________________________ "Da bigger da Orc, da stronger da Orc. Da stronger da Orc, da more dat's Orc's da boss. No wonder da Orc Choppa is always da bosses!"
Since I don't PvP just for the fun of besting another person, I am more preocupied with the objective, I don't care about having the highest kill count, in fact if I can accomplish goals, like capturing something , with minimal conflict then all the better. I like to think of myself as a practical fighter and thus effective, I don't run in when out numbered, I fall back and wait for support, and don't engauge enemies unless I am fairly certain my group can win, getting yourself killed isn't very useful, especially in PvP with a goal. I prefer to be more covert, and I have done my fair share of hiding from big groups and picking off single targets. If I can win by intimadation, meaning they retreat because they are outnumbered, then great, there is no need to pursue them. I think coordination is key, running around by yourself isn't very effective, teammates need to know where each other are and where the enemy is, this is the way you can surround and route the enemy. Deception is important, letting the enemy think there is a weak spot in your lines, or that the path is a safe escape route, only to surprise them with hidden troops, it keeps their eyes on one end of your army, while the other end swoops in around them. But above all I am concerned with accomplishing PvP goals, if there are any, and keeping other players in my group alive.
That was a cogent and well presented arguement, CactusmanX.
I'd like to add to it from my personal experiences, if I may: When a PVP situation has a clear and very real objective (or set of objectives) I too focus on completion of objectives. From my DAoC experience there are times when a ram is needed and someone has to risk all to get that ram to the door. If he (usually this mean ME) dies after placing the ram, this is acceptable, so long as another is there to take his (MY) place and bring the door down. Each person should (ideally, in a good group or guild) play their part to achieve the objective(s). Too many times cowboys run crazy and the unit suffers as a whole. (Okay, I'm former military, so maybe this is just indoctrination talking).
However, at times the action is lessed focused. When the team is simply doing sweeps or patroling after successfully claiming territory things can get a bit unbalanced. Perhaps odds as bad as 5 to 1 against the enemy. In those sitautions I do not favour the logical military tactic of overwhelming force. I am more apt to stand aside and let a teammate die, if that death we earned honourably in one on one combat. There is no honour in ganking and odds of 5 to 1 may have been ideal to Mannfred Von Richtoffen, but these are games we are playing. I have found over the years that in games (RPG, board, CCG, etc) a person's worst and truest personality aspects come to the fore: vanity, hubris, backstabbing, rage, and outright cheating are some of the common personality traits that dominate gamers' characters. I have always said that if you will cheat in a game, which has no bearing on real life, how much quicker would you be to cheat on something that really mattered in your real life. Call it a knee jerk psychological character assessment.
If I fight one on one and best another person, then he/she gets my respect. If it was a close contest and I really felt the threat of loss, then he/she gets that much more respect. That person has given me joy, and that it why I play, for the enjoyment of it. If I am engaged in a one on one conflct and it is going very well (we are hitting each other for somewhat equal amounts of damage and effects, it could go either way, there is a real feeling of competition) and 1, 2, 3, or more of my foes "friends" jump in and destroy me without so much as a by your leave, then I lose all respect for my foe and enjoyment suffers. I must say that having clear cut goals in a PVP scenario are more to my tastes and lead to greater enjoyment for this very reason.
This situation calls for a judicious application of elemental psychology and extreme violence
Originally posted by kraiden Neither , my groups usually kite the others until death. So I guess thats consitered constant tactical running? 3 major mmo's and I have yet to be in a group that was straight up run in bash and fight to the death.
Doesn't WAR have collision ? You'll NEED it in WAR, otherwise your groups dies.
Honestly, this is determined by game dynamics for me.
For instance, if I'm playing in an instance like Warsong Gulch in WoW, I might be near a heal item - so I might run towards that heal item. Likewise, if I'm playing on an open PvP server where the PvP is just random and doesn't have a point to it besides just killing each other, then I'll initially choose to fight or flee based on whether or not I have a chance of winning (did they use nesting tactics to start the fight when I was low health? Are they ridiculously higher level than me? Am I hopelessly outnumbered?) and whether or not I have a chance of getting away.
So basically, I'll fight to the death if success is possible and I'll fight to the death if there is a purpose to it and my team is better served by me dealing a bit more damage or causing a mez to slow down a pursuer or moving the flag a bit further, etc.
There is no honour in ganking and odds of 5 to 1 may have been ideal to Mannfred Von Richtoffen, but these are games we are playing.
Oh when I said waiting for reinforcements I ment to even out the numbers on each side. For example, if I am in a group of three and I see ten guys coming up a path I won't jump in and fight because I am almost certain to die along with my whole group, we would need about eight guys to fight off the other ten, assuming that we are around the same level, and healers wouldn't hurt either. If I am in a group and am attacked by a smaller group or a single player, I think a little display of force is useful to show them that they can't win, and then let them escape since there is no need to push the issue, and in doing so could get one of my teammates killed, so this is both useful to my group and the enemies and therefore I can avoid greater conflict while still accomplishing a goal. If smaller groups don't attack mine then there is no need to fight them.
I see the use of self sacrifice, I have held narrow doors and halls before and died to let other people escape. But likewise I have turned back to help teammates escape, I always play a tank/melee character. Fair combat is a must and I have to agree I don't like gank squads, in fact if there isn't a battle going on I don't even engauge in PvP, unless to help out a player on my side.
Too often I see single people running into a group of ten or so and try to kill as many as they can before they die, or "cowboys" like you called them, which provides little in tactical advantage, as the ones that were killed, if any, will probably be rezed a bit later. Or people chasing other players down to kill them just to get a higher kill count, even if doing so takes them away from a vital spot that they were supose to be defending. This usually ends up costing their whole team, as we needlessly lose soldiers and ground.
The hardest part is actually organizing that many people to do my said strategies.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Comments
heh..
When i clicked the Title i expected something totaly different..
TO THE DEATH!
Always to the death!
To the death it will be... I have a sneaking suspicion that tanks of all races are going to be very popular in WAR When the devs told us that anything you learn to be a tank will be useful in PVP, they opened the floodgates to all tank guilds
______________
Mark E. Cooper
AKA Tohrment
Proud member of Damned Souls since 2007.
http://www.damnedsouls.eu
To the death. Just gonna jump in to the middle of the enemy, maybe kill a few blokes, and go out with a bang. Orks don't do strateregery.
THE TOMATO IS NOT A FRUIT, DAMN IT!!!
Hit and run all the way.
You know all the runners are just going to lie.
Neither , my groups usually kite the others until death. So I guess thats consitered constant tactical running?
3 major mmo's and I have yet to be in a group that was straight up run in bash and fight to the death.
I don't consider kiting to be running away. Keeping space because you are ranged or to get a heal off is different than running from battle. Put it this way if the guy trying to keep up with you turns around do you keep running or turn around to keep him in range?
I will run around like a headless chicken and hope for ppl to die stomped
/me=Shaman.
I'll run around searching for a battle, then when I'm almost dead, I'll "Eeeek!!!" (gotta love the Greenskin skill names ), and let everyone around me fly 20 feet, me inclusive.
THat gives me a 40 feet buffer to run away behind a big strong Black Orc, where I heal up, and back into battle I go
Fear the wrath of Gork and Mork!
To the PAIN!
No actually, to the death. But not because I am hardcore or anything, just because I don't tend to pay attention to my own life meter. And I keep thinking I can knock off that last little percentage as I go down. Sad really.
This situation calls for a judicious application of elemental psychology and extreme violence
TO DA END!
WAAAAGH!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Hit and run for me. It would be cool if there was an ability that you can use once in a group fight where you /push your mate into an incoming enemy so you buy time to escape
Well, there is, sortof, depending on what Class you play.
For example the Goblin Shaman has an ability called "Eeeek!", which knocks you and everyone around you back by 20 yards. Kinda like a damage-less explosion 1 feet in front of you.
Or the Black Orc can throw enemies and allies around, initially supposed to throw your Healer behind you, but if you run away from the enemy, you should be able to throw some poor guy right in the middle of those who chase you
To the death... because it's a game and there is no point in running. And like someone said, runners always die.
Yeah, I know I'm no fun.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Metallica8589/videos?view=0
I think part of being good at PvP is knowing how many people you can kill without dying. Not running in killing and killing until you die. I usually kill as many people as I can and run at the very last second before I am killed. I don't think thats being a coward, being a coward is running the second you realize your even-numbered or out-numbered.
Since I don't PvP just for the fun of besting another person, I am more preocupied with the objective, I don't care about having the highest kill count, in fact if I can accomplish goals, like capturing something , with minimal conflict then all the better.
I like to think of myself as a practical fighter and thus effective, I don't run in when out numbered, I fall back and wait for support, and don't engauge enemies unless I am fairly certain my group can win, getting yourself killed isn't very useful, especially in PvP with a goal. I prefer to be more covert, and I have done my fair share of hiding from big groups and picking off single targets. If I can win by intimadation, meaning they retreat because they are outnumbered, then great, there is no need to pursue them. I think coordination is key, running around by yourself isn't very effective, teammates need to know where each other are and where the enemy is, this is the way you can surround and route the enemy. Deception is important, letting the enemy think there is a weak spot in your lines, or that the path is a safe escape route, only to surprise them with hidden troops, it keeps their eyes on one end of your army, while the other end swoops in around them.
But above all I am concerned with accomplishing PvP goals, if there are any, and keeping other players in my group alive.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
This poll is surprising. Most of the battles I've been in have many people standing back while only a few people push forward. If the other side falls back far enough then whoever is left is cut off and cut up. I am a pusher...leap into battle; cause as much trouble as i can for the enemies around me; then hope I get support or I'm the one cut off and cut up
So far the Black Orc seems to match my PvP fighting style plus i like the idea spiky bits all over my gear.
This poll shows that we are gonna stand and fight...a previous poll showed that most people are gonna play a Black Orc.
Da Orcz is gonna crush dem dwarfs - Waagh!
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Till Death!!!
FOR DA GREENSKINS!!!
__________________________________________________________________________________________
"Da bigger da Orc, da stronger da Orc. Da stronger da Orc, da more dat's Orc's da boss. No wonder da Orc Choppa is always da bosses!"
till the death
I'd like to add to it from my personal experiences, if I may: When a PVP situation has a clear and very real objective (or set of objectives) I too focus on completion of objectives. From my DAoC experience there are times when a ram is needed and someone has to risk all to get that ram to the door. If he (usually this mean ME) dies after placing the ram, this is acceptable, so long as another is there to take his (MY) place and bring the door down. Each person should (ideally, in a good group or guild) play their part to achieve the objective(s). Too many times cowboys run crazy and the unit suffers as a whole. (Okay, I'm former military, so maybe this is just indoctrination talking).
However, at times the action is lessed focused. When the team is simply doing sweeps or patroling after successfully claiming territory things can get a bit unbalanced. Perhaps odds as bad as 5 to 1 against the enemy. In those sitautions I do not favour the logical military tactic of overwhelming force. I am more apt to stand aside and let a teammate die, if that death we earned honourably in one on one combat. There is no honour in ganking and odds of 5 to 1 may have been ideal to Mannfred Von Richtoffen, but these are games we are playing. I have found over the years that in games (RPG, board, CCG, etc) a person's worst and truest personality aspects come to the fore: vanity, hubris, backstabbing, rage, and outright cheating are some of the common personality traits that dominate gamers' characters. I have always said that if you will cheat in a game, which has no bearing on real life, how much quicker would you be to cheat on something that really mattered in your real life. Call it a knee jerk psychological character assessment.
If I fight one on one and best another person, then he/she gets my respect. If it was a close contest and I really felt the threat of loss, then he/she gets that much more respect. That person has given me joy, and that it why I play, for the enjoyment of it. If I am engaged in a one on one conflct and it is going very well (we are hitting each other for somewhat equal amounts of damage and effects, it could go either way, there is a real feeling of competition) and 1, 2, 3, or more of my foes "friends" jump in and destroy me without so much as a by your leave, then I lose all respect for my foe and enjoyment suffers. I must say that having clear cut goals in a PVP scenario are more to my tastes and lead to greater enjoyment for this very reason.
This situation calls for a judicious application of elemental psychology and extreme violence
Doesn't WAR have collision ? You'll NEED it in WAR, otherwise your groups dies.
i'll be there for support
ima healer, not a fighter!
Currently Playing : WAR, UO, RL
Honestly, this is determined by game dynamics for me.
For instance, if I'm playing in an instance like Warsong Gulch in WoW, I might be near a heal item - so I might run towards that heal item. Likewise, if I'm playing on an open PvP server where the PvP is just random and doesn't have a point to it besides just killing each other, then I'll initially choose to fight or flee based on whether or not I have a chance of winning (did they use nesting tactics to start the fight when I was low health? Are they ridiculously higher level than me? Am I hopelessly outnumbered?) and whether or not I have a chance of getting away.
So basically, I'll fight to the death if success is possible and I'll fight to the death if there is a purpose to it and my team is better served by me dealing a bit more damage or causing a mez to slow down a pursuer or moving the flag a bit further, etc.
Oh when I said waiting for reinforcements I ment to even out the numbers on each side. For example, if I am in a group of three and I see ten guys coming up a path I won't jump in and fight because I am almost certain to die along with my whole group, we would need about eight guys to fight off the other ten, assuming that we are around the same level, and healers wouldn't hurt either. If I am in a group and am attacked by a smaller group or a single player, I think a little display of force is useful to show them that they can't win, and then let them escape since there is no need to push the issue, and in doing so could get one of my teammates killed, so this is both useful to my group and the enemies and therefore I can avoid greater conflict while still accomplishing a goal. If smaller groups don't attack mine then there is no need to fight them.
I see the use of self sacrifice, I have held narrow doors and halls before and died to let other people escape. But likewise I have turned back to help teammates escape, I always play a tank/melee character. Fair combat is a must and I have to agree I don't like gank squads, in fact if there isn't a battle going on I don't even engauge in PvP, unless to help out a player on my side.
Too often I see single people running into a group of ten or so and try to kill as many as they can before they die, or "cowboys" like you called them, which provides little in tactical advantage, as the ones that were killed, if any, will probably be rezed a bit later. Or people chasing other players down to kill them just to get a higher kill count, even if doing so takes them away from a vital spot that they were supose to be defending. This usually ends up costing their whole team, as we needlessly lose soldiers and ground.
The hardest part is actually organizing that many people to do my said strategies.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit