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PvP without being an asshat?
Vociferor
Member Posts: 98
Firstly, my apologies if this is one of those topics you've seen too many times in the past. Secondly, just wondering if any of the eve vets on the boards can give me a quick run down of the do's and don'ts in the pvp world of Eve or a link to somewhere that explains this topic in detail.
A little more info:
I now have a steady income from one account and wish to start a PvP character on another now that I can afford to lose ships without flinching. I'm not a sadist (so my motivation isn't ruining a persons day as it is for some in the game) but I do like the challenge of PvP from time to time. Therefore, Piracy pretty much isn't for me, well, not hardcore Piracy anyway.
So, how does one PvP in Eve without gaining a reputation as being an asshat?
Is it possible to PvP in Eve without being an asshat and without the need to join a PvP corp?
Thanks in advance for any replies.
Comments
Your gonna need several months of training skills maybe even a year or 2 to get anywhere close to current pvp play going on now. Do missions or mine and train your skills max out the Learning ones first.
MAGA
Thanks for the reply Elsa and, no offense, but it was a bit off topic. I'm more interested in your opinion on the rules of engagement for not becoming deemed an asshat by the community than whether I should pvp or not.
I understand the fact that I am at a disadvantage due to time, but the way I see it, is that I can still learn from doing. Sure, I'm gonna lose a lot if I go up against characters that have specialised in pvp skills over the past couple of years, but then again, I can afford to lose the ships as I learn, it's really not a problem to me. I will, however, meet people that I do have a shot at beating.
I've got an alt for running missions and mining (at least in high sec) isn't as profitable as level 4 missions without pimped skills, both aren't exactly what I would call fun (imho) so that's why I'm turning my attention to the pvp.
Then to answer your question there are no asshats only pod killers.
MAGA
Okay, Ignoring the person who obviously never did any operations in 0.0. The best way to PvP with out being called asshat is to stay out of local, and don't smacktalk. Besides get out there as soon as you can, suggest you hop into a EWAR ship of some type as they are cheap, fun to fly and very important at all skill levels.
Thanks Nicoli.
Is there anything else that it is 'out of order' that I need to be wary of other than smacktalking or is engaging anyone and everyone you find in low sec or 0.0 considered 'business as usual'?
Okay, Ignoring the person who obviously never did any operations in 0.0. The best way to PvP with out being called asshat is to stay out of local, and don't smacktalk. Besides get out there as soon as you can, suggest you hop into a EWAR ship of some type as they are cheap, fun to fly and very important at all skill levels.
I'm going to agree.Most 0.0 corp/alliances have solid rules and set punishments for those who smack talk in local or even talk at all while hostiles are present. It is always a good rule of thumb to not talk to local, but instead simply monitor it and refrain from typing back.
Other than that, everything is fair game.
In my experience the difference between being an arse hat and not is - podding or not -
The rest of your combat would be the same as normal, you try to avoid chatting in local, you try to make sure that you ransom them in a respectable manor - say 1/3 the price of their ship etc, none of this 100% or 70% ship price stuff most people will die over paying that. Be honorable and always avoid smack talkers
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
Whatever you do in eve, someone will always end up calling you an asshat. Some things to keep in mind if you wanna build up a good reputation:
- While you will always gank people far weaker than you in terms of numbers, ships and skills, it's bad form to brag about it later. A battleship killing a 2 month-old hauler is not uber.
- Use local only to say "gf" after a battle, and never smack.
- Engage even if the enemy outnumbers you, its good fun and you get the reputation of having cojones the size of Iceland.
If you want to PvP, best bet is to join a corp that does that. PvPing in groups is far more fun than solo, although you can get some great solo combat in pirate infested areas. Personally I'm anti-pirate, so the whole ransom thing is not the way that I would go.
EDIT: You can group PvP with a 3 month character, it doesn't need 2 years. You can solo fairly effectively with a 1 year character, if you train correctly.
Another idea is to actually ransome the target if its feasable.
Okay, Ignoring the person who obviously never did any operations in 0.0. The best way to PvP with out being called asshat is to stay out of local, and don't smacktalk. Besides get out there as soon as you can, suggest you hop into a EWAR ship of some type as they are cheap, fun to fly and very important at all skill levels.
I'm going to agree.Most 0.0 corp/alliances have solid rules and set punishments for those who smack talk in local or even talk at all while hostiles are present. It is always a good rule of thumb to not talk to local, but instead simply monitor it and refrain from typing back.
Other than that, everything is fair game.
Can't add much to this. Sound advice on both parts.
If EWAR isn't your thing you can also go the "Covert ops" route.... they're a bit pricier to fly but can be one heck of a lot of fun. Especially if you're in a corp/alliance that knows how to take advantage of the stealth bomber's strengths well.
As far as not being an 'asshat'? It's really quite simple:
Don't smack talk in local. Saying "Good fight" (often short-cutted to "gf") is fine. Commenting negatively in local, however, will get you labled an "asshat" quite quickly.
Contrary to what another poster said: Podding people in 0.0 is normal. Anyone who considers you an asshat because they got podded is a fool anyway so not worth being concerned about. EVE is all about economic warfare to obtain territory. Nobody really minds losing a ship (even caps are replacable) it's the ISK it takes to replace the ships that hurts a person/corp/alliance over time. An insured T1 ship costs next to nothing to replace (heck many corps and alliances GIVE AWAY free T1 ships to members specifically to PVP in)... however... if that Pilot has implants... podding him is a serious wallet hit as they cannot be insured and usually cost many times what his/her ship cost. I personally take great joy in podding people flying around over 10km/s because they almost ALWAYS have very expensive implants in their heads that are letting them go that fast.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Though I agree with the no smacking advices I have got my fair share of abuse just for saying "GF" in local
In my opinion you can´t really pvp without annoying people sometimes but most people are pretty reasonable. Also I definetly try to pod people for reasons mentioned here before.
I dunno, I'd consider anyone who'd attack me just for fun, without any driven motivation to be a complete asshat.
If I was involved in a Corp or Alliance War, then it can be expected and I wouldn't take it as hard. As a newer player, I quickly became tired of the endless griefing from pirates, when my 0.0 intentions were simply to mine or take on NPC's. Anyways... in my opinion, if you PvP outside of Corp or Alliance wars, especially where the battle would not be anywhere close to fair, you'll always be an asshat in my book. Justify the strike
EVE's open PvP is bittersweet to me. It can have its good moments and its' bad.
Not sure about pirates, but just a point of order, my Corporation/Alliance will kill anyone entering "our" area of 0.0 space, regardless of intention. As we put it... the rewards of 0.0 space are great, but so are the responsibilities. You want to play there, you'd better be willing to fight for your territory and make the sacrifices necessary to hold it.
Not sure what my thoughts on podding are.... I can see the tactical advantage, but still seems like a mean approach to take against an honorable opponent. But hey, after I've been pod-killed about a dozen times I'll probably come around and see the light....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you don't stop the pod as well as the ship you haven't kept them out of your territory. All he needs is to get to a POS where he or his corp (or even his alliance) have jumped a carrier with ships to. If you don't stop the POD as well as the ship all you're doing is slowing him down, not stopping him.
Heck he doesn't even need a POS... just a carrier jumped into system somewhere that has some ships on board. Or a spy in your alliance who flies to a pre-determined point and ejects a ship for him. Etc...
Even if he doesn't get a ship he's still behind your lines now and able to give important intel to his allies (your enemies). Have a gatecamp up? Guess what, he can flit in at 200km in his pod, completely immune to you, get a list of your ships and warp back to a safe and give the entire makeup of your fleet and it's disposition at the gate to your enemies.
Got a mining op going? If he happens to be in the system? Expect a hostile fleet or gank squad soon. Etc.
PODs are a threat just as much as any other pilot in your system. They can still cause you to be killed even if they can't kill you themselves.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Erm... yeah... as a lot of people have already said, this really isn't true. At all. So don't be discouraged. If you want to PVP a lot of people have already given some good suggestions that aren't terribly skillpoint or ISK intensive. You can play a number of support roles in gang fairly quickly. Additionally, if you want to solo right out of the gate, you can jump into an Assault Ship (which could take awhile to get trained up depending on your attributes, but shouldn't be TOO terrible).
Number one tip to starting out as quickly as possible in EVE, regardless of what you want to do, is to train up your learning skills to at least level 4 each, and when you get the ISK the advanced ones too. This will drastically reduce the amount of time required to train up skills. A lot of new players forget to do this and it really increases the startup time for them.
Anyway -- on topic, and people have already said. Basically don't be a jerk (especially in the local chat channel), don't pod people (unless you really want to ransom their pod), if you do ransom honor it. Not honoring a ransom will get you in trouble quickly.
Join an alliance in 0.0. Then kill any hostiles or neutrals, pod if you want and can. As long as you are a good sport, and don't complain or talk smalk in local you are not an asshat, lol. I often have long conversations with people I have killed, or have killed me. Good players don't take it personally, as its all in good fun. A good suggestion is to say "good fight" whether or win or lose in local, and otherwise don't talk in that channel.
I've been playing about a year now. Been living in 0.0 for about 10 months. Best advise I can give is after learning the basics is get out there and don't be discouraged. You will lose ships regardless, but that the point of the game.(Non-consensual PvP) It is to go out there fight & have fun, rinse & repeat. Learn from your mistakes. It take a certain attitude, a certain level of maturity & patience, oh God, lots of patience.
It's been said Eve isn't everyone's cup of tea and players like it that way. You don't like it, then don't go on the forums and whine about it. You'll just get people asking you to quit & go play WoW and if you do quit, can they have your stuff. Otherwise enjoy, get into a corp & alliance and have at it.
lol, no worries ravnosdae, the only whine I like is a nice full bodied one with a see-gar.
Thanks to everyone for the advice. I guess I'm still getting used to a game mechanic and community where it is 'ok' to just cruise about offing peeps pretty much anywhere.
So I guess the points I'll take from the thread are, don't smacktalk in local, find myself a 0.0 corp/alliance and specialise my skills in one area after training the learning skills.
With that said, can anyone recommend some sovereign alliances that are well respected? (even if I could get in I wouldn't be interested in bob, RA or goonswarm and I know very little of the other alliances)
How about trying to fighting pirates? A few corps made a reputation for themselves for shooting only the "bad guys". One example would be Celestial Apocalypse [CELES], the highest profile anti-pirate corp.
But all in all you are not respected or hated for who you kill, but for how you do it. Do it with style and you will get the respct of even your enemies, do it like a coward, and people won't give a nickel for your reputation. That is basically about it.
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Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Short, consise and very true.
0.0 and low sec pvp is a lot different though in my opinion, in 0.0 you are generally defending your "turf" and mot alliances have a a "nbsi" approach ( not blue shoot it ), your pod is just as viable a target, if not even more so, as your ship.
0.0 is much more gang warfare, much more organized and a lot more down to point, you have a purpose and a goal, allthough this can get very clinical and more "job" like it is very rewarding and fun, you feel like you accomplish something.
I have not engaged in low sec pvp because I have seen no reason, we do have a couple POS's in low sec and I suppose at some time we may be forced to defend them, wich I will.
As we are since recently an empire corp our PvP sessions is generally about doing 0.0 excursions, wich in a gang can be a lot of fun as well, but you are generally at an disadvantage, and there is little purpose to it other then honing your skills.
I am at 6m sp, with them spread out all across the board ( and battleship 5 is like 2m of those ), I do not have access to t2 ships and not all that much t2 equipment except for drones and I can still make a difference, a gankrax or an all out EW celestis pretty much anyone can fly and they are both highly effective.
Personally I like the covert ops EW warfare so thats were I am heading now before going for carrier, wich is like 2 months away.
Just be prepared to lose ships and do not get hung up about it, if you take a ship into pvp se it as lost and you are figthing to get it back.
Just my thougths
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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Hate to break this to you but most of 0.0 is claimed by corporations and/or alliances. If your '0.0 intentions' are to mine or rat then join a 0.0 corp which either controls or is in an alliance which controlls 0.0 territory or at least is allowed to rat/mine in someone else's. If you go into 0.0 and start ratting/mining people are going to kill you because you're trespassing on their territory.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
before you make your char decide what ship you want to pvp in then design your char so you have a good jump start on skills for that ship....
train up cybernetics's to 3 as fast as you can get a set of implants +3 be ready to loose them but they will really help in training all those learning skills & then your ship skills
when you are ready enroll in a started corp like eve u ..they can help teach you pvp tacts ...then go find a pvp centered corp and off to the races ya go ..
if you stay on just training for your ship in 6 mos- yr you will have sweet skills ...most serious pvp corps / alliances would like you to be tec 2 in your chosen ship type.....this will help get you past the sp requirements of some of the better corps..
something ya might think about is actually getting your non pvp char to be able to supply your chosen ship & the mods you like to use including rigs
Yep, always wanted to fly a Jag since my original trial when I fell in love with the Rifter. Trained some basic skills to get a Rifter fitted the first few days for practice, now I'm on all learning skills to IV which will be followed by Assault ships and tech II guns/weapons. Then I'll continue to specialise for this ship. Including the time it will take to finish training all the learning skills to IV, I'm currently about 50 days from an Assault ship with tech II weapons.
I have a set of +1 implants (without charisma) installed atm as 3k lp + 3mil isk for a set is nothing to worry about losing. My mission runner has over 8.0 standing with Spacelane Patrol so I'll be forming a corp with the sole intention of bumping up my pvp alts standing so that it can install a few jump clones in empire, then I'll stick the best imps in that I can afford.
Good suggestion with the manufacturing idea although I'm thinking it is gonna be unlikely that I'll find a tech II assault ship bpo in my price range,. The rigs sound like a good choice as I tend to salvage all the wrecks in my missions anyway and they seem to be more costly than modules. However, one of the few things that I find frustrating with the game is finding a place to research your blueprints without having to wait a month for access. I've thought about setting up my own POS in empire space specifically for this purpose but I don't know if my mission runner will be able to pull in enough ISK to pay for two accounts and the fuel a small POS requires every month once I have finished training the skills to complete all the level 4 missions in good time.
I'm in talks with a large anti-pirate corp at this time. They tick all my boxes apart from not being sovereign over their own space on account of them refusing to join any alliance. The recruitment officer told me they don't 'need' an alliance which is fair enough as it provides them with a greater degree of flexibility. I won't be of much use till september so I have plenty of time to decide whether I shall join them or find a similar corp that is in an alliance with sovereignty.
Thanks for the post and to everyone else that has posted.
Cheers,
Vociferor
This is why I don't Suggest training all the learning skills to 4 early on. Your more and likely 20 days or less from flying a Jag with T2 guns. Seriously go down load evemon and see what it suggests for learning skills, you'll be much happier with the game when you start learning what you want to use much faster instead of learning a bunch of skills that may or may not pay off till 6 months to 2 years down the road.
This is why I don't Suggest training all the learning skills to 4 early on. Your more and likely 20 days or less from flying a Jag with T2 guns. Seriously go down load evemon and see what it suggests for learning skills, you'll be much happier with the game when you start learning what you want to use much faster instead of learning a bunch of skills that may or may not pay off till 6 months to 2 years down the road.
Yep... set a short term goal... EveMon will tell you EXACTLY what learning skills to train to make the learning time take the least time possible.... get to it and then learn the rest of the learning skills.... then worry about mid-long term goals.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell